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Bigha

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Recumbent bicycles
Published
10 February 2003
Last activity
13 February 2003
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John Rooker
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  1. Hi everybody:

    My name is John Acres, I'm the founder of BiGHA. I write this because interest has been expressed
    here about our company and I wanted to provide a way to get information directly. I understadn how
    frustating it can be to attempt to understand what a company is about and why they're doing the
    things they do.

    If you want to ask me questions or offer comments, I'm happy to take them. I'll respond as best I
    can. I won't always agree with you--and I'm certain you won't always agree with me. You still might
    think our bike is the dumbest thing ever built and that I'm pretty stupid too.

    We each have our own idea of what is good and what isn't. That's what makes the world go 'round.

    Following is a response to a couple of questions raised. Let me know if you want responses to
    other issues.

    ----
    Website

    We spent a long time trying to decide what to do with our site. After much discussion, we chose to
    do it in Flash because it is widely distributed--some say 80% of users have flash, others say
    95%--and because it communicates the message we want to convey. We also believe that Flash will grow
    ever more popular. As we evolve, we might well do an HTML version of the site. We started out with
    that but coudn't accomplish our goals. For those that haven't seen it, our site isn't about a lot of
    animations. There's a total of one so far and its prety simple. It also conveys the message of what
    we hope to accomplish.

    The issue of bandwidth was a big one for us. Our tests showed the site right now takes about two
    minutes to download on the first visit. After that, it is supposed to be held in cache so it'll load
    much, much more quickly. We're working to compress the site to a smaller size.

    We tested the site using IE Explorer V5.2 and greater, and Netscape 6 and above. We also tested
    Apple's Safari. We're scheduled to try Opera and possibly different Mozilla flavors. For better or
    worse, we won't test with old versions of browsers. We figure people can get the newer versions for
    free. Sorry.

    Truth is, we jumped the gun on notifying people about the site. The plan was to get it up and have a
    few dozen people review and comment. One of our guys got enthused when the site went live today and
    emailed everyone that had requested information. Ouch!

    Bike

    For better or worse, our bike is meant to be different. Other bikes are sold as a conglomeration of
    components. While that is fine for enthusiasts, it doesn't serve a large segment of consumers--the
    segment we target. Many of us don't know who made the brakes or transmissions in our cars. We just
    know they work. There's no attempt to hide who makes our components, we just don't emphasize it on
    our site. We will include those specifications as we refine things. I understand you might disagree
    and that we may be wrong. Time will tell. Here's what we use. Let me know if you have questions
    about any component. I'll make sure you get the information. (you can tell by my terminology that
    I'm not a bike specialist.):

    Transmission: SRAM Dual-Drive Disc brakes: Avid Frame: BiGHA Electronics & software: BiGHA

    Electronics

    I can only imagine how silly this must seem. I'm the person that insisted on their implementation
    and I firmly believe in what we offer. I can't expect you to concur--especially since you haven't
    seen or tried the system. The goal is not to add a gadget. The goal is to enhance functionality. We
    believe safety is critical so lights are built-in. Turn signals too. cars need all the help they
    can get to see us on the road. After twice riding Cycle Oregon, I grew tired of saying "on your
    left" all the time. So we added a horn. The security system is NOT meant to replace a lock. In
    fact, we offer a lock option. But it can enhance the lock's performance. My family had two bikes
    stolen that were locked up. Worst, we were nearby. The last time it happened, my son saw the guy
    right after he'd cut the lock and was riding away. We chased him for a while--even got close enough
    that he laughed at us befre he cut across a yard and rode away. Had there been a motion detector
    that set off an alarm as he worked to break the lock, we could have gotten to him sooner. Besides,
    the motion detector--a solid state accelerometer made by Analog Devices (ADXL202E) serves to
    automatically turn off lights and drives the brake light too. There's one central set of batteries
    and a minimum of switches for the rider to have to worry about.

    Price $3,000 is a lot. I know it and you certainly do too. This bike costs well over half that much
    to build--without beginning to amortize the millions of dollars spent on its development. The seat
    alone cost over $500,000. I wish I could price the bike a lot lower. I can't. The market will judge
    over the next couple of years if we've misspent.

    I've taken too much of your time already so I'll stop now. I'll close by saying we're real and we're
    really dedicated. We think we've got a worthwhile design and a lot of talented people have worked
    hard to create it. If we're wrong, I'm out a lot of money and sixteen people will lose their jobs.
    Worse things have happened and life without risk probably isn't worthwhile.

    Anyway, thanks for listening. Your comments are invited and you're welcome to visit us at 4314
    SW Research Way in Corvallis. We'd be happy to show you around. Bikes are expected to ship in
    late March.

    john

  2. john Acres said:


    ... Price $3,000 is a lot. I know it and you certainly do too. This bike costs well over half that
    much to build--without beginning to amortize the millions of dollars spent on its development. The
    seat alone cost over $500,000. I wish I could price the bike a lot lower. I can't. The market will
    judge over the next couple of years if we've misspent....

    This seat better be spectacular, considering one of, if not the best recumbent seats (Earth Cycles)
    had to have been developed for very little money.

    Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) Various HPV's

  3. Half a Million on the Seat....damn, for that kinda money this seat had better be stellar.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    "Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    john Acres said:


    ... Price $3,000 is a lot. I know it and you certainly do too. This bike costs well over half
    that much to build--without beginning to amortize the millions of dollars spent on its
    development. The seat alone cost over $500,000. I wish I could price the bike a lot lower. I
    can't. The market will judge over the next couple of years if we've misspent....

    This seat better be spectacular, considering one of, if not the best recumbent seats (Earth
    Cycles) had to have been developed for very little money.

    Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) Various HPV's

  4. No pictures of the actual product? There are several.

    --
    David Luecke Ridin' a RANS Vivo (wahoo!) Merritt Island, Florida USA

  5. "Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    See < ftp://www.ihpva.org/incoming/Sunset001.jpg > and <
    ftp://www.ihpva.org/incoming/Sunset005.jpg >

    Seems like they went to ftp://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/sunset/Sunset001.jpg and
    ftp://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/sunset/Sunset005.jpg

  6. Joshua Goldberg said:


    Half a Million on the Seat....damn, for that kinda money this seat had better be stellar.

    For that kind of money it'd better give the rider a hand job. A bicycle isn't that complicated and
    this bike isn't in any way revolutionary. If they spent that kind of money on development, someone
    is ripping someone off. Do the investors know anything at all about bicycles? Do they know that
    similar bikes are going for half the price? Do they know they're going to lose their shirts?

    Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~lllove

    "Why of course the people don't want war... Naturally... That is understood. But, after all, it is
    the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the
    people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist
    dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
    That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers
    for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
    Hermann Goering

  7. wow, man, I got the Bigha message tonight and it was really far out, man. I can tell that these guys
    are all libra's and scorpio's, you know? Like, they are really tuned in to the groovy side of
    biking, you know?

    awesome, man

    rich 'pass the granola' westerman

  8. We think the seat is pretty good and a lot different than anything that's been made before.
    Judging from your comments about the hand job, you perhaps have different expectations of the seat
    than we do.

    As to whether or not our investors know--yeah, I do. It's my money that funded the development and
    right now, I'd do it again. I was involved at every step of the process and I am fully aware of
    exactly where each dime was spent. I sure hope you're wrong about losing my shirt. It wouldn't be a
    pretty picture🙂

    I've had some success at creating products--and some failures too. Fortunately for me, the successes
    have outweighed the failures and I've accumulated enough to undertake projects like this wihout
    having to solicit money from other people.

    I'm awfully pleased with and proud of this design. I've been fortunate enough to hook up with some
    very talented people and they've done some great work. I understand your doubts but please forgive
    me if I disagree with your assessment.

    I hope you'll try the bike out later this spring when volume shipments begin. I've spent a lot of
    time riding the prototypes and I like it a lot--more than any other bike I've tried. Of course, your
    goals appear to be somewhat different. Here's hoping you find the seat of your dreams!

    Quoted message said:
    Joshua Goldberg said:


    Half a Million on the Seat....damn, for that kinda money this seat had better be stellar.

    For that kind of money it'd better give the rider a hand job. A bicycle isn't that complicated and
    this bike isn't in any way revolutionary. If they spent that kind of money on development, someone
    is ripping someone off. Do the investors know anything at all about bicycles? Do they know that
    similar bikes are going for half the price? Do they know they're going to lose their shirts?

  9. "john Acres" skrev...

    Quoted message said:

    We think the seat is pretty good and a lot different than anything that's been made before.
    Judging from your comments about the hand job, you perhaps have different expectations of the seat
    than we do.

    Or he needs a girlfriend. ;-)

    The electronics part of the bike is interesting. Compass, turnsignals, brakelight and an alarm would
    be nice to have. Horn I dunno... a bell works for me. The headwindindicator sounds depressing. :-) I
    would also like to see my cadence.

    $3000 is probably not going to get it sold to "hardcore" benters. But best of luck.

    Regards Mikael

  10. Quoted message said:

    The electronics part of the bike is interesting. Compass, turnsignals, brakelight and an alarm
    would be nice to have. Horn I dunno... a bell works for me. The headwindindicator sounds
    depressing. :-) I would also like to see my cadence.

    Oh, it has cadence. Neat. Or does it? Mentioned in the text but not in the overview at the bottom
    of the page.

    Will you be selling the electronics separately? And if so got a price? Might be neat on my TE-clone.

    Mikael

  11. On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 23:37:33 GMT, "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Opera users should be aware of this:

    What it is

    Opera is an alternative browser to Internet Explorer. It is touted as a faster, more secure, browser
    than IE, and has an integrated Email program called M2. However, as we all know - as you add
    features to a program, you also expand the possibility of opening security holes. And Opera version
    7.0 opens a whopping 5 new security holes. The more disturbing thing is that these security holes
    were revealed to the authors of Opera as long ago as last November and we still haven't seen fixes
    for many of them. The person discovering the vulnerabilities attempted to help Opera's authors
    address and resolve them, but they have not been forthcoming - so they released the info to the
    general public.

    To contrast, Microsoft usually releases hot fixes within 2 weeks of notification (1 week if the
    threat is severe). Service packs come out about every other month with thoroughly regression
    tested fixes.

    The security holes open up a wide variety of vulnerabilities to an opera user, including the ability
    for an attacker to read files on their disks, execute cross-site scripting attacks that transfer
    security information from one site to another, read emails within M2 Opera's email host a couple
    different ways, determine where you've browsed lately, log all the URL's in your history file so
    they know exactly where you've been and what you've seen. These sorts of privacy and security
    exploits are exactly the kind of problem that got IE into trouble. The difference is that in IE
    these things were fixed well, quickly and a long time ago.

    I've long said that as alternative browsers, operating systems, databases and web servers
    proliferated and became more popular the temptation would be there to add more features. And as
    these features are added (like Javascript in Opera 7) along come the vulnerabilities that more
    complex software makes possible. As we've seen from the recent rash of Linux issues, we are
    also going to see similar issues with other alternative browsers. Be careful and be a wary
    buyer. Let logic prevail over what constitutes the safest choice - not an emotional "I hate
    Microsoft" attitude.

    What we recommend

    For the moment we recommend NOT using Opera 7 as your browser. Many of these vulnerabilities exist
    in older versions of Opera, but the most dangerous ones popped up with the new version 7. Until
    Opera makes a concerted effort to fix these issues, and the vendor shows a real dedication to fixing
    security breaches we'd recommend using a different browser by a vendor that DOES show this sort of
    concerted effort. Hate it if you will but at least IE is patched fairly rapidly by Microsoft and
    they've made a real effort to make their product more bulletproof.

    Where to get more information

    You can get more information about these advisories at:

    security.greymagic.comadv

    This ends this Viruswarning security update dated 2/4/2003 at 8:05pm

    Quoted message said:

    Doesn't load at all on my Netscape 4.75 or Opera 7.0. Had to used the Evil One's browser. That's
    really great web design.

    No spec sheet, no idea of who makes the components. Who's going to buy this pig in a poke? Oh, but
    it has a humidity indicator! I guess that changes everything.

    Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~lllove

    "A people living under the perpetual menace of war and invasion is very easy to govern. It
    demands no social reforms. It does not haggle over expenditures on armaments and military
    equipment. It pays without discussion, it ruins itself, and that is an excellent thing for the
    syndicates of financiers and manufacturers for whom patriotic terrors are an abundant source of
    gain." Anatole France

  12. I checked out the site with Mozilla 1.2.1, with the latest flash plugin. Worked great.

    --
    David Luecke Ridin' a RANS Vivo (wahoo!) Merritt Island, Florida USA

  13. "David Luecke" <[email hidden]> wrote

    | No pictures of the actual product? There are several.

    Initially I was trying to view the site via a 56k connection. After viewing it via broadband I
    was able to actually see the product. Still, rather "fluffy." They need an alternate to Flash for
    the unwashed.

    Regards,

    Mike O'Brien

    Remember that the Ark was built by amateurs but the Titanic was built by professionals...

  14. Groovy :-) Because I have often used this newsgroup and others as a reference, and just because it's
    my nature, I can't stand to let things that are factually incorrect go uncorrected - mostly for the
    sake of those going through this later.

    If you've ever had a computer problem, searched through a group to find the solution posted months,
    executed the solution, had it screw things up worse, and then see later that people must have known
    it wasn't the right solution when they tried it and it didn't work, but they didn't post a reply
    announcing that....then it's easier to understand :-)

    Yeah, I have a broadband right now, though I am going to lose it soon, and the site was no problem
    that way. I know it would be a pain on dial-up. Imagine it on a Pocket PC!

    --
    David Luecke Ridin' a RANS Vivo (wahoo!) Merritt Island, Florida USA

  15. "Torben Scheel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    See < ftp://www.ihpva.org/incoming/Sunset001.jpg > and <
    ftp://www.ihpva.org/incoming/Sunset005.jpg >

    Seems like they went to ftp://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/sunset/Sunset001.jpg and
    ftp://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/sunset/Sunset005.jpg

    That is a bike with a short chain?!?!?!

  16. Hi Mikael, the bike measures cadence. The mid-drive and rear wheel are each equipped with
    hall-effect sensors. They're smaller and last even longer than reeed switches. The rear wheel
    includes three magnets so there's three pulses per revolution. That helps give a better indication
    of slow speeds.

    Electroncis are not sold separately. I wish we could. But the system required two separate
    processors. One is in the display console, the other in the rer fender. They share the workload and
    just couldn't fit into a single enclosure that could attach to another bike. Sorry.

    "Mikael Seierup" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The electronics part of the bike is interesting. Compass, turnsignals, brakelight and an alarm
    would be nice to have. Horn I dunno... a bell works for me. The headwindindicator sounds
    depressing. :-) I would also like to see my cadence.

    Oh, it has cadence. Neat. Or does it? Mentioned in the text but not in the overview at the bottom
    of the page.

    Will you be selling the electronics separately? And if so got a price? Might be neat on my
    TE-clone.

    Mikael

  17. John Rooker said:


    On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 23:37:33 GMT, "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Opera users should be aware of this:

    What it is

    Opera is an alternative browser to Internet Explorer. It is touted as a faster, more secure,
    browser than IE, and has an integrated Email program called M2. However, as we all know - as you
    add features to a program, you also expand the possibility of opening security holes. And Opera
    version 7.0 opens a whopping 5 new security holes. The more disturbing thing is that these
    security holes were revealed to the authors of Opera as long ago as last November and we still
    haven't seen fixes for many of them. The person discovering the vulnerabilities attempted to help
    Opera's authors address and resolve them, but they have not been forthcoming - so they released
    the info to the general public.

    To contrast, Microsoft usually releases hot fixes within 2 weeks of notification (1 week if the
    threat is severe). Service packs come out about every other month with thoroughly regression
    tested fixes.

    The security holes open up a wide variety of vulnerabilities to an opera user, including the
    ability for an attacker to read files on their disks, execute cross-site scripting attacks that
    transfer security information from one site to another, read emails within M2 Opera's email host a
    couple different ways, determine where you've browsed lately, log all the URL's in your history
    file so they know exactly where you've been and what you've seen. These sorts of privacy and
    security exploits are exactly the kind of problem that got IE into trouble. The difference is that
    in IE these things were fixed well, quickly and a long time ago.

    I've long said that as alternative browsers, operating systems, databases and web servers
    proliferated and became more popular the temptation would be there to add more features. And as
    these features are added (like Javascript in Opera 7) along come the vulnerabilities that more
    complex software makes possible. As we've seen from the recent rash of Linux issues, we are also
    going to see similar issues with other alternative browsers. Be careful and be a wary buyer. Let
    logic prevail over what constitutes the safest choice - not an emotional "I hate Microsoft"
    attitude.

    What we recommend

    For the moment we recommend NOT using Opera 7 as your browser. Many of these vulnerabilities exist
    in older versions of Opera, but the most dangerous ones popped up with the new version 7. Until
    Opera makes a concerted effort to fix these issues, and the vendor shows a real dedication to
    fixing security breaches we'd recommend using a different browser by a vendor that DOES show this
    sort of concerted effort. Hate it if you will but at least IE is patched fairly rapidly by
    Microsoft and they've made a real effort to make their product more bulletproof.

    Where to get more information

    You can get more information about these advisories at:

    security.greymagic.comadv

    This ends this Viruswarning security update dated 2/4/2003 at 8:05pm

    This is [censored]. Opera 7.01 with the security fixes was out in days of 7.0 release. IE is so full of
    holes that patches are being continually released but new holes are being found faster then they can
    be plugged. There are so many patches to IE that Microsoft itself couldn't install them all and was
    brought down by the latest virus attack.

    Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~lllove

    "It is not Microsoft's monopoly that I object to, it is the mediocrity of their products." Larry
    Ellison, CEO of Oracle

  18. Belive what you want, I was just passing along information I received.

    Lorenzo L. Love said:
    John Rooker said:


    On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 23:37:33 GMT, "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:

    This is [censored]. Opera 7.01 with the security fixes was out in days of 7.0 release. IE is so full of
    holes that patches are being continually released but new holes are being found faster then they
    can be plugged. There are so many patches to IE that Microsoft itself couldn't install them all and
    was brought down by the latest virus attack.

    Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~lllove

    "It is not Microsoft's monopoly that I object to, it is the mediocrity of their products." Larry
    Ellison, CEO of Oracle

  19. Paul Bruneau said:


    Quoted message said:

    Seems like they went to ftp://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/sunset/Sunset001.jpg and
    ftp://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/sunset/Sunset005.jpg

    That is a bike with a short chain?!?!?!

    Paul,

    Look again - there are two chains on the Sunset. The rear chain is actually slightly shorter than
    most upright bicycle chains.

    Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) Various HPV's

  20. Quoted message said:

    This is [censored]. Opera 7.01 with the security fixes was out in days of 7.0 release.

    It's been patched, but it took several months not days. news.com.com2100 1023 983474.html

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