Big old jet airliner....

On 25 Apr 2007 09:46:12 -0700, Scott Gordo <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I'm heading overseas in a couple weeks on Continental. Up to two years
ago, bikes were free for intercontinental fligths as long as they were
under 50lbs and of certain dimensions (counting as a second piece of
luggage).

Last year, the rules became much more vague, and I got popped on my
return flight for $80.

This year, Continental seems to have returned to posting the rules on
their website:
http://www.continental.com/web/en-US/content/travel/baggage/sports.aspx

"If the bike(s) is packed in a container that is over 50 lbs (23kg)
and/or 62 linear inches (157cm), a $95 service charge applies each
way. The service charge is in addition to any excess baggage charges
that may apply."

Sounds like I can clear that without much issue. Has anyone flown
Continental recently and been charged unwarrantedly? Last year, it
seemed that whether I'd be charged was based on the whims of the
agent.

Thanks.

Scott

Dear Scott,

Here's the latest bicycle shipping information that I can find:

MANY RAILROADS YIELD.
The past summer was quite notable for a vast extension of the
territory within which bicycles are carried free as baggage.
Theretofore all of the principal lines south-of the Potomac had
charged for the machines of their passengers as excess baggage, and
the measure before the Georgia legislature, calling for their free
transportation, had failed of passage. The first important Southern
system to yield was the Seaboard Air Line, which directed that
bicycles should be checked without charge when no other baggage
was presented, but cautioned its employees to handle them with
'carefulness and precaution' as befitting a mechanism of delicate
and fragile construction. This action was soon followed by similar
action on the part of other Southern roads, particularly the
connections of the Seaboard Air Line; and it is probable that the
custom adopted by them will become general in the Atlantic Coast
States before the end of the present year. By far the most important
point in the classification of bicycles as baggage, however, was
granted late in May, when the Passenger Committee of the Trunk Line
Association decided to check the machines presented by beginning and
end of the Journey were in difpassengers without extra charge whenever
the beginning and the end of the Journey were in different States."

"Outing Magazine" October 1897
http://www.aafla.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_31/outXXXI01/outXXXI01z.pdf

Obviously, things had improved from the dark days of 1883, when the
following rates were in effect:

"The following are the rates for transporting bicycles in England, as
luggage, at the owner’s risk :
s. d.
Under 50 miles, 1 0.
Over 50 " under 75, 1 6.
" 75 " " 100, 2 0.
" 100 " " 150, 2 6.

"Outing Magazine" 1883
http://www.aafla.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_02/outII05/outII05q.pdf

Note the 150-mile limit.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

I thought that if you belonged to IMBA that they would waive or reduce the
fee on airlines. If you were to have to fly with your bike often you might
consider the fee as money well spent. Also, I was able to charm a ticket
agent once and got the fee waived, but I'm a really handsome fellow and
he......I mean she was really nice!
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 25 Apr 2007 09:46:12 -0700, Scott Gordo <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I'm heading overseas in a couple weeks on Continental. Up to two years
ago, bikes were free for intercontinental fligths as long as they were
under 50lbs and of certain dimensions (counting as a second piece of
luggage).

Last year, the rules became much more vague, and I got popped on my
return flight for $80.

This year, Continental seems to have returned to posting the rules on
their website:
http://www.continental.com/web/en-US/content/travel/baggage/sports.aspx

"If the bike(s) is packed in a container that is over 50 lbs (23kg)
and/or 62 linear inches (157cm), a $95 service charge applies each
way. The service charge is in addition to any excess baggage charges
that may apply."

Sounds like I can clear that without much issue. Has anyone flown
Continental recently and been charged unwarrantedly? Last year, it
seemed that whether I'd be charged was based on the whims of the
agent.

Thanks.

Scott

Dear Scott,

Here's the latest bicycle shipping information that I can find:

MANY RAILROADS YIELD.
The past summer was quite notable for a vast extension of the
territory within which bicycles are carried free as baggage.
Theretofore all of the principal lines south-of the Potomac had
charged for the machines of their passengers as excess baggage, and
the measure before the Georgia legislature, calling for their free
transportation, had failed of passage. The first important Southern
system to yield was the Seaboard Air Line, which directed that
bicycles should be checked without charge when no other baggage
was presented, but cautioned its employees to handle them with
'carefulness and precaution' as befitting a mechanism of delicate
and fragile construction. This action was soon followed by similar
action on the part of other Southern roads, particularly the
connections of the Seaboard Air Line; and it is probable that the
custom adopted by them will become general in the Atlantic Coast
States before the end of the present year. By far the most important
point in the classification of bicycles as baggage, however, was
granted late in May, when the Passenger Committee of the Trunk Line
Association decided to check the machines presented by beginning and
end of the Journey were in difpassengers without extra charge whenever
the beginning and the end of the Journey were in different States."

"Outing Magazine" October 1897
http://www.aafla.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_31/outXXXI01/outXXXI01z.pdf

Obviously, things had improved from the dark days of 1883, when the
following rates were in effect:

"The following are the rates for transporting bicycles in England, as
luggage, at the owner's risk :
s. d.
Under 50 miles, 1 0.
Over 50 " under 75, 1 6.
" 75 " " 100, 2 0.
" 100 " " 150, 2 6.

"Outing Magazine" 1883
http://www.aafla.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_02/outII05/outII05q.pdf

Note the 150-mile limit.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

try this link, I don't know how current it is
http://www.ibike.org/encouragement/travel/bagregs.htm
"Scott Gordo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm heading overseas in a couple weeks on Continental. Up to two years
ago, bikes were free for intercontinental fligths as long as they were
under 50lbs and of certain dimensions (counting as a second piece of
luggage).

Last year, the rules became much more vague, and I got popped on my
return flight for $80.

This year, Continental seems to have returned to posting the rules on
their website:
http://www.continental.com/web/en-US/content/travel/baggage/sports.aspx

"If the bike(s) is packed in a container that is over 50 lbs (23kg)
and/or 62 linear inches (157cm), a $95 service charge applies each
way. The service charge is in addition to any excess baggage charges
that may apply."

Sounds like I can clear that without much issue. Has anyone flown
Continental recently and been charged unwarrantedly? Last year, it
seemed that whether I'd be charged was based on the whims of the
agent.

Thanks.

Scott

Quoted message said:

I'm heading overseas in a couple weeks on Continental. Up to two years
ago, bikes were free for intercontinental fligths as long as they were
under 50lbs and of certain dimensions (counting as a second piece of
luggage).

Last year, the rules became much more vague, and I got popped on my
return flight for $80.

This year, Continental seems to have returned to posting the rules on
their website:
http://www.continental.com/web/en-US/content/travel/baggage/sports.aspx

"If the bike(s) is packed in a container that is over 50 lbs (23kg)
and/or 62 linear inches (157cm), a $95 service charge applies each
way. The service charge is in addition to any excess baggage charges
that may apply."

Sounds like I can clear that without much issue. Has anyone flown
Continental recently and been charged unwarrantedly? Last year, it
seemed that whether I'd be charged was based on the whims of the
agent.

Assume the worst, and hope for the best. Try to *not* let $190 (if they get
you both ways) ruin your trip.

In general, airlines are in a revenue-enhancement mode. It's amazing bikes
have gotten a free ride for as long as they have on international routes (on
most, but not all, carriers).

Keep in mind that the ticketing agent is a minor god. Whatever he or she
decides to do is the law. Doesn't matter what the rules say. Nor, in this
day & age, are you likely to see someone reverse a charge on appeal.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Scott Gordo said:

I'm heading overseas in a couple weeks on Continental.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

This year, Continental seems to have returned to posting the rules on
their website:http://www.continental.com/web/en-US/content/travel/baggage/sports.aspx

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Sounds like I can clear that without much issue. Has anyone flown
Continental recently and been charged unwarrantedly? Last year, it
seemed that whether I'd be charged was based on the whims of the
agent.

Thanks.

Scott

Print it out from the website, keep the printout in your pocket as a
backup, just in case the agent is having a bad day,

Regards,

bookieb.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Keep in mind that the ticketing agent is a minor god. Whatever he or she
decides to do is the law. Doesn't matter what the rules say. Nor, in this
day & age, are you likely to see someone reverse a charge on appeal.

Yeah, it ain't like the old days when companies actually cared what
you thought about them. Now it's all about volume and the squeaky
wheel can go to Hell for all they care.

Scott Gordo said:

Sounds like I can clear that without much issue. Has anyone flown
Continental recently and been charged unwarrantedly? Last year, it
seemed that whether I'd be charged was based on the whims of the
agent.

Dunno about bikes, but I have noticed that airlines have gotten a lot
less accommodating with luggage than they once were. Airlines have
lowered the per-bag weight limit from 70 pounds to 50 pounds, for
example. I got burned on that trying to fly Delta to Paris last summer
with a suitcase full of books. The agent on the way out gave me a hard
time, and told me she would waive the fee if I took my shoes out of
the bag. I think it was mostly an effort at personal humiliation,
since the weight difference would have been negligible. I told her to
stuff it and just charge me the fee. I had no problem (and no fee)
checking the same bag on the return trip at de Gaulle.

Good luck taking Continental transatlantic. Last time I did that, the
service completely sucked. One airline I can recommend based on recent
experience is EgyptAir -- really excellent service. The only downside
is no booze. (But if you're going where I think you're going, I doubt
that would be an option anyway ;-).

CC

On Apr 25, 11:46 am, Scott Gordo <[email hidden]> wrote:
<deleted>

Quoted message said:

"If the bike(s) is packed in a container that is over 50 lbs (23kg)
and/or 62 linear inches (157cm), a $95 service charge applies each
way. The service charge is in addition to any excess baggage charges
that may apply."

<deleted>

The dimensions of an S&S coupled bicycle (26+26+10) meet this size
limit and do not incur this charge.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Keep in mind that the ticketing agent is a minor god. Whatever he or she
decides to do is the law. Doesn't matter what the rules say. Nor, in this
day & age, are you likely to see someone reverse a charge on appeal.

Yeah, it ain't like the old days when companies actually cared what
you thought about them. Now it's all about volume and the squeaky
wheel can go to Hell for all they care.

Yet we need to put this in perspective; air traffic is dramatically cheaper,
adjusted for inflation, than it was back in the day. Even with outrageous
cost of fuel, ticket prices haven't gone up much. Airlines everywhere are
operating in the red. And when airlines have tried to offer better services
in exchange for even slightly-higher ticket prices, the traveling public
goes to the cheaper fares. It's a crazy business.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Yet we need to put this in perspective; air traffic is dramatically cheaper,
adjusted for inflation, than it was back in the day. Even with outrageous
cost of fuel, ticket prices haven't gone up much. Airlines everywhere are
operating in the red. And when airlines have tried to offer better services
in exchange for even slightly-higher ticket prices, the traveling public
goes to the cheaper fares. It's a crazy business.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

I agree - but that doesn't mean that they can't "do what's right" for
customers. If a charge is unjustified, or service sub standard, they
should at least do something to make the customer feel that they care.

still me said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Yet we need to put this in perspective; air traffic is dramatically cheaper,
adjusted for inflation, than it was back in the day. Even with outrageous
cost of fuel, ticket prices haven't gone up much. Airlines everywhere are
operating in the red. And when airlines have tried to offer better services
in exchange for even slightly-higher ticket prices, the traveling public
goes to the cheaper fares. It's a crazy business.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

I agree - but that doesn't mean that they can't "do what's right" for
customers. If a charge is unjustified, or service sub standard, they
should at least do something to make the customer feel that they care.

As Mike said, most of the traveling public seems to favor cheaper fares
over better services, which suggests that "doing what's right" means
keeping costs down. A 70 lb baggage allowance was no big deal when
planes flew less than completely full, especially when most people
didn't bring the full 70 lbs. As soon as the airlines started filling
airplanes more efficiently, a 70 lb allowance increased the odds that
the airline would not be able to fit every customer's baggage on a given
flight. Reducing the allowance to 50 lbs means everybody's baggage fits
on the plane they are traveling on, planes get unloaded and reloaded
faster at every stop, fuel costs go down, and baggage handlers don't get
injured as frequently. The truth is that only a tiny handful of us fly
with our bicycles, and most people probably don't use the full 50 lb
baggage allowance, so it really doesn't make sense for airlines to write
their baggage policies for the sole benefit of a tiny handful of
customers. One can always ship a bicycle to one's destination by UPS or
FedEx for domestic journeys, and anyone who can afford to take a cycling
vacation overseas can probably afford the service charge to take a
bicycle on the plane. And FWIW, British Airways will still let you take
a bicycle along with one checked bag free of charge between the US and
Europe.

mark

still me said:

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 03:28:12 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"

Quoted message said:

Keep in mind that the ticketing agent is a minor god. Whatever he or she
decides to do is the law. Doesn't matter what the rules say. Nor, in this
day & age, are you likely to see someone reverse a charge on appeal.

Yeah, it ain't like the old days when companies actually cared what
you thought about them. Now it's all about volume and the squeaky
wheel can go to Hell for all they care.

It -IS- like the old days still. The company might not care what you
think but she still does. Flirt with her!!!!! Did you notice how
pretty she is? Let her feel the warmth of your gaze and then look coy
when she looks up and there will be no charge for the bike.

dl

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Keep in mind that the ticketing agent is a minor god. Whatever he or she
decides to do is the law. Doesn't matter what the rules say. Nor, in this
day & age, are you likely to see someone reverse a charge on appeal.

Yeah, it ain't like the old days when companies actually cared what
you thought about them. Now it's all about volume and the squeaky
wheel can go to Hell for all they care.

It -IS- like the old days still. The company might not care what you
think but she still does. Flirt with her!!!!! Did you notice how
pretty she is? Let her feel the warmth of your gaze and then look coy
when she looks up and there will be no charge for the bike.

dl

I was referring more to the previous poster's note about note getting
an excessive charge reversed.

What you posted is, of course, correct in terms of negotiating. Dare I
give away trade secrets, you should always stare deeply into her eyes,
really lock on, don't blink, don't glance away at all, until she
smiles. (From there you are on your own, the rest of the Master's
secrets are hidden in a most obvious way so that most will never learn
them).

email hidden said:

On Apr 25, 11:46 am, Scott Gordo <[email hidden]> wrote:
<deleted>

Quoted message said:

"If the bike(s) is packed in a container that is over 50 lbs (23kg)
and/or 62 linear inches (157cm), a $95 service charge applies each
way. The service charge is in addition to any excess baggage charges
that may apply."

<deleted>

The dimensions of an S&S coupled bicycle (26+26+10) meet this size
limit and do not incur this charge.

True. However @ ~$500 one would need to fly fairly often to recover
the cost of S&S couplers in a reasonable length of time, depending of
course, on the exact circumstances.

Plus they add, what, a 3/4 pound of weight?

I used to fly ~ once a year, & I'm planning on that in the future. I
don't think that they would worth the initial lay down, for me.

I'm not saying they are a bad idea.
They certainly are beautiful, & elegant.
Just that the payback time might be a little long, John

john said:

email hidden said:

On Apr 25, 11:46 am, Scott Gordo <[email hidden]> wrote:
<deleted>

Quoted message said:

"If the bike(s) is packed in a container that is over 50 lbs (23kg)
and/or 62 linear inches (157cm), a $95 service charge applies each
way. The service charge is in addition to any excess baggage charges
that may apply."

<deleted>

The dimensions of an S&S coupled bicycle (26+26+10) meet this size
limit and do not incur this charge.

True. However @ ~$500 one would need to fly fairly often to recover
the cost of S&S couplers in a reasonable length of time, depending of
course, on the exact circumstances.

Plus they add, what, a 3/4 pound of weight?

I used to fly ~ once a year, & I'm planning on that in the future. I
don't think that they would worth the initial lay down, for me.

I'm not saying they are a bad idea.
They certainly are beautiful, & elegant.
Just that the payback time might be a little long, John

At $80-$100 per flight and flying one round trip per year the payback
time would be 3-4 years, which is not completely unreasonable. My
concern would be storing the S&S suitcase when I was on a cycle tour,
it's not always easy to store a suitcase when I'm on an extended tour.
I've flown to Europe with a bicycle at no charge 4 times since 2000, and
next year's trip will probably be the last time my bike gets a free
ride. Hard to complain, I've done pretty well up to this point. I keep
an old road bike at my parents house for family visits, and if I were to
fly anywhere else (not likely) I would either ship a bike UPS/FedEx if
it was a long stay, or find some other way to get my exercise for a
short trip.

mark

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Scott Gordo <[email hidden]> wrote:
<deleted>
> "If the bike(s) is packed in a container that is over 50 lbs (23kg)
> and/or 62 linear inches (157cm), a $95 service charge applies each
> way. The service charge is in addition to any excess baggage charges
> that may apply."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

<deleted>
The dimensions of an S&S coupled bicycle (26+26+10) meet this size
limit and do not incur this charge.

Quoted message said:

john said:

True. However @ ~$500 one would need to fly fairly often to recover
the cost of S&S couplers in a reasonable length of time, depending of
course, on the exact circumstances.
Plus they add, what, a 3/4 pound of weight?
I used to fly ~ once a year, & I'm planning on that in the future. I
don't think that they would worth the initial lay down, for me.
I'm not saying they are a bad idea.
They certainly are beautiful, & elegant.
Just that the payback time might be a little long, John

mark said:

At $80-$100 per flight and flying one round trip per year the payback
time would be 3-4 years, which is not completely unreasonable. My
concern would be storing the S&S suitcase when I was on a cycle tour,
it's not always easy to store a suitcase when I'm on an extended tour.
I've flown to Europe with a bicycle at no charge 4 times since 2000, and
next year's trip will probably be the last time my bike gets a free
ride. Hard to complain, I've done pretty well up to this point. I keep
an old road bike at my parents house for family visits, and if I were to
fly anywhere else (not likely) I would either ship a bike UPS/FedEx if
it was a long stay, or find some other way to get my exercise for a
short trip.

We sell S+S (new bikes and we are an S+S frame shop) but you should
factor in the case & incidentals. It's more like $850 minimum, typically
$1000 to get all set up.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Scott Gordo <[email hidden]> wrote:
> <deleted>
>> "If the bike(s) is packed in a container that is over 50 lbs (23kg)
>> and/or 62 linear inches (157cm), a $95 service charge applies each
>> way. The service charge is in addition to any excess baggage charges
>> that may apply."
"[email hidden]"
> <deleted>
> The dimensions of an S&S coupled bicycle (26+26+10) meet this size
> limit and do not incur this charge.

john said:

True. However @ ~$500 one would need to fly fairly often to recover
the cost of S&S couplers in a reasonable length of time, depending of
course, on the exact circumstances.
Plus they add, what, a 3/4 pound of weight?
I used to fly ~ once a year, & I'm planning on that in the future. I
don't think that they would worth the initial lay down, for me.
I'm not saying they are a bad idea.
They certainly are beautiful, & elegant.
Just that the payback time might be a little long, John

mark said:

At $80-$100 per flight and flying one round trip per year the payback
time would be 3-4 years, which is not completely unreasonable. My
concern would be storing the S&S suitcase when I was on a cycle tour,
it's not always easy to store a suitcase when I'm on an extended tour.
I've flown to Europe with a bicycle at no charge 4 times since 2000, and
next year's trip will probably be the last time my bike gets a free
ride. Hard to complain, I've done pretty well up to this point. I keep
an old road bike at my parents house for family visits, and if I were to
fly anywhere else (not likely) I would either ship a bike UPS/FedEx if
it was a long stay, or find some other way to get my exercise for a
short trip.

We sell S+S (new bikes and we are an S+S frame shop) but you should
factor in the case & incidentals. It's more like $850 minimum, typically
$1000 to get all set up.

--
Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

WOW! I did not realize that. I really don't dislike em. Just a little
too rich for my blood, John

Quoted message said:

still me said:

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 03:28:12 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"

Quoted message said:

Keep in mind that the ticketing agent is a minor god. Whatever he or

she

Quoted message said:

decides to do is the law. Doesn't matter what the rules say. Nor, in

this

Quoted message said:

day & age, are you likely to see someone reverse a charge on appeal.

Yeah, it ain't like the old days when companies actually cared what
you thought about them. Now it's all about volume and the squeaky
wheel can go to Hell for all they care.

It -IS- like the old days still. The company might not care what you
think but she still does. Flirt with her!!!!! Did you notice how
pretty she is? Let her feel the warmth of your gaze and then look coy
when she looks up and there will be no charge for the bike.

dl

Only one problem, she's a lesbian and hates men.
--
Slack

In article <[email hidden]>,

?Slack said:

Quoted message said:

still me said:

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 03:28:12 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"

<[email hidden]> wrote:

>Keep in mind that the ticketing agent is a minor god. Whatever he or
she
>decides to do is the law. Doesn't matter what the rules say. Nor, in
this
>day & age, are you likely to see someone reverse a charge on appeal.

Yeah, it ain't like the old days when companies actually cared what
you thought about them. Now it's all about volume and the squeaky
wheel can go to Hell for all they care.

It -IS- like the old days still. The company might not care what you
think but she still does. Flirt with her!!!!! Did you notice how
pretty she is? Let her feel the warmth of your gaze and then look coy
when she looks up and there will be no charge for the bike.

Only one problem, she's a lesbian and hates men.

Negative attitude. I was with a friend at a government office to
transact business. He said "I hate these places. They treat you
like [censored]." I said "Watch this." I thought about what it is like
to be a clerk in those places, and dealing with everybody that
comes up to the window. I smiled at the clerk and kept in mind
that thought. The transaction went flawlessly and we both were
happier at the conclusion. It is a question the posture one
assumes.

--
Michael Press