Big Mechanical Failure....again

"Gags" <gags_44nospamatnospamtpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Was riding home tonight on the 'good' roadie. As I was riding along
Wellington Parade not far up from Fed Square I was in the left hand lane
coming up to lights and the line of traffic in this lane was backing up to
turn left. I slowed down quite a bit, checked behind in the right lane
and
saw that there was a decent gap and so I got up out of the saddle to
accelerate around the traffic and get back in the left lane without
holding
up any of the cars in the right lane. As I started to do this there was a
'funny' feeling from the back wheel and suddenly I wasn't going anywhere.
My right foot came unclipped and I sort of fell onto the seat and managed
to
graze my right knee on the end of the handlebars in the process. I was
slowing down quickly and ended up just managing to avoid falling off but
stopped in the middle of the right lane. I quickly unclipped and
thankfully
someone in the left lane let me scoot back across to the footpath.

Quickly checked the bike thinking that my chain had somehow sucked up on
itself but found that I had actually managed to pull the back wheel out of
the dropouts. This is not the first time this has happened to me nor is
it
the first bike that it has happened on. I am running older styled steel
frame roadies with the dropouts that are sort-of inbetween vertical and
horizontal. As this has happened before, I always make sure that I do up
my
rear quick release skewer to the point that I am worried it is going to
break when I am actuating the lever to do it up.......not sure what else I
can do to prevent this from happening???

Now I am a fairly big guy but surely I shouldn't be able to do this on a
semi-regular basis??? I am thinking that I might have to come up with
some
sort of engineering solution to this problem that introduces some sort of
positive mechanical lock on the dropouts (I am sure that someone is going
to
tell me to try vertical dropouts.....rolls eyes). The only other solution
I
can think of is to take to the surface of the dropouts where the skewer
sits
with some sandpaper or a file in order to rough it up some.

Anyone had this problem and, more importantly, anyone know how to fix
it???

Gags

Are the dropouts deformed in anyway?

"Resound" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Are the dropouts deformed in anyway?

Not as far as I can see. The only thing that was a bit deformed was my knee
when it cracked the handlebars.

Gags said:

Now I am a fairly big guy but surely I shouldn't be able to do this on a
semi-regular basis??? I am thinking that I might have to come up with
some
sort of engineering solution to this problem that introduces some sort of
positive mechanical lock on the dropouts (I am sure that someone is going
to
tell me to try vertical dropouts.....rolls eyes). The only other solution
I
can think of is to take to the surface of the dropouts where the skewer
sits
with some sandpaper or a file in order to rough it up some.

Anyone had this problem and, more importantly, anyone know how to fix
it???

Are you using quick releases with an 'open-style' lever
(http://tinyurl.com/efo6k) or the older covered type
(http://tinyurl.com/h7u6j) ? Recently an item I read in a magazine
(Australian Cyclist?) pointed out two aspects of the open-style that makes
them more prone to pulling out. The cam in them is larger, giving you less
leverage when you close them. And the inner surface of the QR is fairly
smooth alloy. The better closed-mech QRs have an inner surface that is
knurled and made of steel, to give it much more grip.

If yours are the open-style, change over to the older style. It'll give you
a more retro look anyway.

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

Gags said:

Was riding home tonight on the 'good' roadie. As I was riding along
Wellington Parade not far up from Fed Square I was in the left hand lane
coming up to lights and the line of traffic in this lane was backing up to
turn left. I slowed down quite a bit, checked behind in the right lane and
saw that there was a decent gap and so I got up out of the saddle to
accelerate around the traffic and get back in the left lane without holding
up any of the cars in the right lane. As I started to do this there was a
'funny' feeling from the back wheel and suddenly I wasn't going anywhere.
My right foot came unclipped and I sort of fell onto the seat and managed to
graze my right knee on the end of the handlebars in the process. I was
slowing down quickly and ended up just managing to avoid falling off but
stopped in the middle of the right lane. I quickly unclipped and thankfully
someone in the left lane let me scoot back across to the footpath.

Quickly checked the bike thinking that my chain had somehow sucked up on
itself but found that I had actually managed to pull the back wheel out of
the dropouts. This is not the first time this has happened to me nor is it
the first bike that it has happened on. I am running older styled steel
frame roadies with the dropouts that are sort-of inbetween vertical and
horizontal. As this has happened before, I always make sure that I do up my
rear quick release skewer to the point that I am worried it is going to
break when I am actuating the lever to do it up.......not sure what else I
can do to prevent this from happening???

Now I am a fairly big guy but surely I shouldn't be able to do this on a
semi-regular basis??? I am thinking that I might have to come up with some
sort of engineering solution to this problem that introduces some sort of
positive mechanical lock on the dropouts (I am sure that someone is going to
tell me to try vertical dropouts.....rolls eyes). The only other solution I
can think of is to take to the surface of the dropouts where the skewer sits
with some sandpaper or a file in order to rough it up some.

Anyone had this problem and, more importantly, anyone know how to fix it???

Two choices that will be reliable :

Ditch the QR and use a bolt

or

get out of the stoneage, and use a vertical dropout frame 🙂

make sure the axle ends aren't protruding the slightest bit past the outer edge of the dropouts.

Have you tired another skewer?

Are you using old style Shimano or Campagnolo all-steel quick releases with
the internal cam? They have far better clamping power than a lot of modern
skewers, and modern skewers also frequently have aluminium ends that don't
bite into the dropouts as well. Stationary trainers often come with this
sort of skewer - my Minoura trainer has one. You may be able to order one of
these skewers as a trainer spare part.

Failing that, you could swap the QR axle for a bolt-on axle. Two of our
tandems have the axles held on with allen-head bolts. I just have to
remember to keep a 6mm allen key with my puncture outfit.

Nick

"Gags" <gags_44nospamatnospamtpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[snip]
Quickly checked the bike thinking that my chain had somehow sucked up on
itself but found that I had actually managed to pull the back wheel out of
the dropouts. This is not the first time this has happened to me nor is
it
the first bike that it has happened on. I am running older styled steel
frame roadies with the dropouts that are sort-of inbetween vertical and
horizontal. As this has happened before, I always make sure that I do up
my
rear quick release skewer to the point that I am worried it is going to
break when I am actuating the lever to do it up.......not sure what else I
can do to prevent this from happening???

Gags said:

Anyone had this problem and, more importantly,
anyone know how to fix it???

This sort of problem usually crops up because the dropouts are bent.

Make sure your dropout faces are _perfectly_ parallel, and that the dropout spacing is appropriate for the wheel width (otherwise the dropouts won't be parallel when you put a wheel in).

In addition, check the wheel. Many old steel roadies use relatively thin dropouts. Newer wheels often have more axle sticking out past the cone locknuts than older ones. If there's too much axle and not enough dropout thickness, then there's nowhere for the little QR springs, and the QR grips the axle rather than the dropout.

Cheers,

Suzy
Gags[/QUOTE]

quote='suzyj'Gags said:

Anyone had this problem and, more importantly,
anyone know how to fix it???

This sort of problem usually crops up because the dropouts are bent.

Make sure your dropout faces are _perfectly_ parallel, and that the dropout spacing is appropriate for the wheel width (otherwise the dropouts won't be parallel when you put a wheel in).

In addition, check the wheel. Many old steel roadies use relatively thin dropouts. Newer wheels often have more axle sticking out past the cone locknuts than older ones. If there's too much axle and not enough dropout thickness, then there's nowhere for the little QR springs, and the QR grips the axle rather than the dropout.

Cheers,

Suzy
Gags[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

++1
I had the same problem and this was the cause. Older style steel frame - Peugeot - with thin (compared to alloy bikes) dropouts. No problems until I changed to Shimano skewers. The Shimano nuts have a more shallow rebate and the axles were bottoming out on the springs and preventing the nut faces from biting into the dropout.

Solutions:
1. Grind off the axle ends (a pain if you have to replace the axle)
2. Use different skewers (also a pain, especially if you don't like the color!!)
3. Machine a deeper rebate into the skewer nuts - best permanent solution

can you get a couple of dem thingies that 'fixified riders use?

don't know the name (but i have em on my 'TB1' )

slip axle thru hole, adjust screws/threads from back which keep axle distance steady from rear of dropouts.

Gags said:

......snip

......... my chain had somehow sucked up on
itself but found that I had actually managed to pull the back wheel out of
the dropouts. This is not the first time this has happened to me nor is it
the first bike that it has happened on. I am running older styled steel
frame roadies with the dropouts that are sort-of inbetween vertical and
horizontal. As this has happened before, I always make sure that I do up my
rear quick release skewer to the point that I am worried it is going to
break when I am actuating the lever to do it up.......not sure what else I
can do to prevent this from happening???

Now I am a fairly big guy but surely I shouldn't be able to do this on a
semi-regular basis??? I am thinking that I might have to come up with some
sort of engineering solution to this problem that introduces some sort of
positive mechanical lock on the dropouts (I am sure that someone is going to
tell me to try vertical dropouts.....rolls eyes). The only other solution I
can think of is to take to the surface of the dropouts where the skewer sits
with some sandpaper or a file in order to rough it up some.

Anyone had this problem and, more importantly, anyone know how to fix it???

Gags

not uncommon with steel frames using lesser quality QRs.

I had this prob once when an LBS nicked my new QRs and replaced 'em with a Shimano cheapy and slippo.....grrr, they got what for and a few neat referrals from me!!

I only use good sharp toothed Campagnolo lever action QRs, nothing less, steel dropouts unlike Alum. resist the bite and need strong lever pressure..you cant get that from the lesser types from cheapy shimano models or the BBB ones that pop up aroud the traps, the lever designs don't exert enough pressure on the cams for steel dropouts..

Campagnolo QRs for me on any steel bike. And check the bite, if it is worn on your QR donate it to an Alloy drop out bike and get a new QR on the steel.

"flyingdutch" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

can you get a couple of dem thingies that 'fixified riders use?

don't know the name (but i have em on my 'TB1' )

slip axle thru hole, adjust screws/threads from back which keep axle
distance steady from rear of dropouts.

"Chain Tugs"
Front the sound of it he's usnig the ones with closed backs though - won't
work.
Gemm

rooman said:

not uncommon with steel frames using lesser quality QRs.

I had this prob once when an LBS nicked my new QRs and replaced 'em
with a Shimano cheapy and slippo.....grrr, they got what for and a few
neat referrals from me!!

I only use good sharp toothed Campagnolo lever action QRs, nothing
less, steel dropouts unlike Alum. resist the bite and need strong lever
pressure..you cant get that from the lesser types from cheapy shimano
models or the BBB ones that pop up aroud the traps, the lever designs
don't exert enough pressure on the cams for steel dropouts..

Campagnolo QRs for me on any steel bike. And check the bite, if it is
worn on your QR donate it to an Alloy drop out bike and get a new QR on
the steel.

Leads to a confession of an "embarrassing moment" for me...
We lived in Wagga Wagga Wagga, and I worked at what is now Charles Sturt
Uni. I used to ride to work on some days. Anyway I had done a major
overhaul on the wife's bike and I decided, even though it was too small
for me, to ride it out and back to work to iron any kinks out.

So on the way home I came to the intersection just north of the bridge
over the river, and I had been lazing along in a low gear. So at the
t-turn I had to wait for a gap in the traffic on the Olympic Way...
track standing ... track standing ... trackstanding ... a gap! So I put
the boot in, and WHACK!!!!! the rear wheel pulled out of the dropouts,
and slammed into the seat tube (Reynolds 531)so hard that it put a 2"
ding in the wheel. Unrideable. Carry bike home. Explain to wife. All my
fault. Didn't do up the QR tight enouth. Sob.