Big ears and noses

Joseph said:

The nose and the ears are said to never stop growing.

Says who?

In July 1993, 19 members of the south east Thames faculty of the Royal
College of General Practitioners gathered at Bore Place, in Kent, to
consider how best to encourage ordinary general practitioners to carry out
research. Someone said, "Why do old men have big ears? Some members thought
that this was obviously true--indeed some old men have very big ears--but
others doubted it, and so we set out to answer the question "As you get
older do your ears get bigger?" 206 patients were studied (mean age 53.75,
range 30-93, median age 53 years). The length of the left external ear was
measured from the top to the lowest part with a transparent ruler; the
result (in millimetres), together with the patient's age, was recorded. The
mean ear length was 675 mm (range 520-840 mm), and the linear regression
equation was: ear length=55.9+(0.22 x patient's age) (95% confidence
intervals 0.17 to 0.27). It seems therefore that as we get older our ears
get bigger (on average by 0.22 mm a year). (James A Heathcote BMJ
1995;311:1668, 23December)

The question here is the whole of the mechanism behind this
phenomenon.

"Griffin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:2004062819163116807%nospam@herenet...

Quoted message said:

Joseph said:

The nose and the ears are said to never stop growing.

Says who?

Joseph said:

In July 1993, 19 members of the south east Thames faculty
of the Royal College of General Practitioners gathered at
Bore Place, in Kent, to consider how best to encourage
ordinary general practitioners to carry out research.
Someone said, "Why do old men have big ears? Some members
thought that this was obviously true--indeed some old men
have very big ears--but others doubted it, and so we set
out to answer the question "As you get older do your ears
get bigger?" 206 patients were studied (mean age 53.75,
range 30-93, median age 53 years). The length of the left
external ear was measured from the top to the lowest part
with a transparent ruler; the result (in millimetres),
together with the patient's age, was recorded. The mean
ear length was 675 mm (range 520-840 mm)

presumably you meant 67.5 etc.

Quoted message said:

, and the linear regression equation was: ear
length=55.9+(0.22 x patient's age) (95% confidence
intervals 0.17 to 0.27). It seems therefore that as we get
older our ears get bigger (on average by 0.22 mm a year).
(James A Heathcote BMJ 1995;311:1668, 23December)

The question here is the whole of the mechanism behind this
phenomenon.

A good start would be to realize what it is you measured.
You have not shown that anyone's ears grows over time --
merely that the older people available to you for this study
had bigger ears. That might have reflected differences
between childhood growth in those growing up at various
times. Now, what you measured was the easy thing to measure;
not unreasonable to do that. But now you need to do a better
expt, and measure the ears of real people over many years,
to see if they grow.

The "growth" the result shows is quite small compared to the
range of ear sizes measured. Since you have not measured
growth, I would be quite cautious about interpreting it in
terms of growth.

bob

Sir, we know that ears and noses get bigger between 20
years old and 80 years old. Do you really think that the
senior gentlemen with such elephant ears walked around
like that 20?

"Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Joseph said:

In July 1993, 19 members of the south east Thames faculty
of the Royal
College of General Practitioners gathered at Bore Place,
in Kent, to
consider how best to encourage ordinary general
practitioners to carry

out

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

research. Someone said, "Why do old men have big ears?
Some members

thought

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that this was obviously true--indeed some old men have
very big ears--but others doubted it, and so we set out
to answer the question "As you get older do your ears get
bigger?" 206 patients were studied (mean age

53.75,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

range 30-93, median age 53 years). The length of the left
external ear

was

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

measured from the top to the lowest part with a
transparent ruler; the result (in millimetres), together
with the patient's age, was recorded.

The

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mean ear length was 675 mm (range 520-840 mm)

presumably you meant 67.5 etc.

Quoted message said:

, and the linear regression equation was: ear
length=55.9+(0.22 x patient's age) (95% confidence
intervals 0.17 to 0.27). It seems therefore that as we
get older our ears get bigger (on average by 0.22 mm a
year). (James A Heathcote BMJ 1995;311:1668, 23December)

The question here is the whole of the mechanism behind
this phenomenon.

A good start would be to realize what it is you measured.
You have not shown that anyone's ears grows over time --
merely that the older people available to you for this
study had bigger ears. That might have reflected
differences between childhood growth in those growing up
at various times. Now, what you measured was the easy
thing to measure; not unreasonable to do that. But now you
need to do a better expt, and measure the ears of real
people over many years, to see if they grow.

The "growth" the result shows is quite small compared to
the range of ear sizes measured. Since you have not
measured growth, I would be quite cautious about
interpreting it in terms of growth.

bob

Joseph said:

Sir, we know that ears and noses get bigger between 20
years old and 80 years old. Do you really think that the
senior gentlemen with such elephant ears walked around
like that 20?

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

Joseph said:

Sir, we know that ears and noses get bigger between 20
years old and 80 years old.

Who is "we"? You made a claim before, and people asked for
some evidence. The evidence presented is interesting, but
does not show "growth".

Quoted message said:

Do you really think that the senior gentlemen with such
elephant ears walked around like that 20?

I don't know. That is why we asked for evidence. Do you have
any? (Doing the correct measurement is not so easy to do, so
it is ok to admit that you do not.)

Exaggeration (talking about elephant ears) is not helpful.
By the curve you gave, the growth from 20 to 80 would be
just over 1 cm -- less than a half inch.

bob

Quoted message said:

"Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Joseph said:

In July 1993, 19 members of the south east Thames
faculty of the Royal
College of General Practitioners gathered at Bore Place,
in Kent, to
consider how best to encourage ordinary general
practitioners to carry

out

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

research. Someone said, "Why do old men have big ears?
Some members

thought

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that this was obviously true--indeed some old men have
very big ears--but others doubted it, and so we set out
to answer the question "As you get older do your ears
get bigger?" 206 patients were studied (mean age

53.75,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

range 30-93, median age 53 years). The length of the
left external ear

was

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

measured from the top to the lowest part with a
transparent ruler; the result (in millimetres), together
with the patient's age, was recorded.

The

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mean ear length was 675 mm (range 520-840 mm)

presumably you meant 67.5 etc.

Quoted message said:

, and the linear regression equation was: ear
length=55.9+(0.22 x patient's age) (95% confidence
intervals 0.17 to 0.27). It seems therefore that as we
get older our ears get bigger (on average by 0.22 mm a
year). (James A Heathcote BMJ 1995;311:1668, 23December)

The question here is the whole of the mechanism behind
this phenomenon.

A good start would be to realize what it is you measured.
You have not shown that anyone's ears grows over time --
merely that the older people available to you for this
study had bigger ears. That might have reflected
differences between childhood growth in those growing up
at various times. Now, what you measured was the easy
thing to measure; not unreasonable to do that. But now
you need to do a better expt, and measure the ears of
real people over many years, to see if they grow.

The "growth" the result shows is quite small compared to
the range of ear sizes measured. Since you have not
measured growth, I would be quite cautious about
interpreting it in terms of growth.

bob