Australia and New Zealand · Public discussion

Bicycle Signal Traffic Lights

rooman · 2007-05-31T09:47:56+00:00

[font=Times New Roman][font=Times New Roman]In a recent forum elsewhere a suggestion was made that the traffic signal for bicycles at Flinders Street Station (entry to Swanston Walk from St Kilda Rd) is not visible enough and many riders don't see it in the plethora of signs and signals and they wait for the main green light, and dont clear the intersection early, thus being in danger in front of cars entering the intersection on the green and blocking up the narrow bicycle lane in front of the station forcing riders onto the road and footpath etc... This is probably only one of such hard to see bicycle signal traffic lights ( regulars know it, but newbies wouldnt expect it to give them priority it seems) So , in thinking about these signals and their overall effectiveness and knowing they are mandated by the Australian Road Rules and that design is in Schedule4 ( silhouette profile of green yellow or red bicycle on black background) I asked VicRoads do they have a bigger one than the 200mm version they now use. Short answer is "NO, but we will look at it if its needed." Ok , now the fun starts, in your opinion ( commuters etc) are they clearly visible enough for you when approaching? Do you see them in all conditions? Could they be improved?, if so how ? ( black background shield?, larger graphic of bicycle?, bigger signal size? etc). I know from many trips along the Esplanade at Port Phillip and Port Melbourne where the signals are used on the bike paths beside the road to control bikes at pedestrian crossings , they are ineffective and I rarely see them being observed, riders slowing or stopping for them ( obviously they can be ignored, but perhaps too they cannot be differentiated as they are so hard to pick out at times. Over to you, try and keep on topic, this isnt about running lights, its about seeing them in the first place and locating them where they can be effective ( if they ever can ) VicRoads are listening and want feedback on this. Here's a chance to actually get something looked at that effects many of us when we get into the city. The comments add to the mix along with other investigations, photos, comparisons , site inspections of locations ID'd as suspect and dangerous or ineffective etc. Thanks [/font][/font]

Started by rooman · 31 May 2007 · Last activity 8 June 2007 · 9 posts · 1,135 views

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Original section: Australia and New Zealand
Published: 31 May 2007
Last activity: 8 June 2007
Original author: rooman
Posts: 9
Discussion status: Public discussion
Total views: 1,135
Views / 30 days: 0

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Original post
rooman
Archived post
31 May 2007, 09:47 UTC #1
[font=Times New Roman][font=Times New Roman]In a recent forum elsewhere a suggestion was made that the traffic signal for bicycles at Flinders Street Station (entry to Swanston Walk from St Kilda Rd) is not visible enough and many riders don't see it in the plethora of signs and signals and they wait for the main green light, and dont clear the intersection early, thus being in danger in front of cars entering the intersection on the green and blocking up the narrow bicycle lane in front of the station forcing riders onto the road and footpath etc...
This is probably only one of such hard to see bicycle signal traffic lights ( regulars know it, but newbies wouldnt expect it to give them priority it seems)
So , in thinking about these signals and their overall effectiveness and knowing they are mandated by the Australian Road Rules and that design is in Schedule4 ( silhouette profile of green yellow or red bicycle on black background) I asked VicRoads do they have a bigger one than the 200mm version they now use.
Short answer is "NO, but we will look at it if its needed."
- Ok , now the fun starts, in your opinion ( commuters etc) are they clearly visible enough for you when approaching?
- Do you see them in all conditions?
- Could they be improved?,
if so how ?
( black background shield?, larger graphic of bicycle?, bigger signal size? etc).
I know from many trips along the Esplanade at Port Phillip and Port Melbourne where the signals are used on the bike paths beside the road to control bikes at pedestrian crossings , they are ineffective and I rarely see them being observed, riders slowing or stopping for them ( obviously they can be ignored, but perhaps too they cannot be differentiated as they are so hard to pick out at times.
Over to you, try and keep on topic, this isnt about running lights, its about seeing them in the first place and locating them where they can be effective ( if they ever can )
VicRoads are listening and want feedback on this. Here's a chance to actually get something looked at that effects many of us when we get into the city. The comments add to the mix along with other investigations, photos, comparisons , site inspections of locations ID'd as suspect and dangerous or ineffective etc.
Thanks
[/font][/font]
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cfsmtb
Archived post

1 June 2007, 06:16 UTC #2

rooman said:
[font=Times New Roman][font=Times New Roman]In a recent forum elsewhere a suggestion was made that the traffic signal for bicycles at Flinders Street Station (entry to Swanston Walk from St Kilda Rd) is not visible enough and many riders don't see it in the plethora of signs and signals and they wait for the main green light, and dont clear the intersection early, thus being in danger in front of cars entering the intersection on the green and blocking up the narrow bicycle lane in front of the station forcing riders onto the road and footpath etc...
Pity the Green Wave technology couldn't be of assistance here, although IMHO the issue here for road users stems from visual overload, confusing signage and a big lump of lack of awareness.

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EuanB
Archived post

4 June 2007, 00:09 UTC #3

cfsmtb said:
Pity the Green Wave technology couldn't be of assistance here, although IMHO the issue here for road users stems from visual overload, confusing signage and a big lump of lack of awareness.
I don't have a problem seeing it but I know where it is. If the junction was new to me then I may miss it, there's just so much going on in that junction.

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Bleve
Archived post

4 June 2007, 02:33 UTC #4

On Jun 4, 10:09 am, EuanB <EuanB.2rm...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com said:
cfsmtb said:
Pity the 'Green Wave technology'
(http://www.cykelby.dk/english.asp#wave) couldn't be of assistance
here, although IMHO the issue here for road users stems from visual
overload, confusing signage and a big lump of lack of awareness.
I don't have a problem seeing it but I know where it is. If the
junction was new to me then I may miss it, there's just so much going
on in that junction.
Make all the signs really, really big! Is that a coke ad, or a stop
light? I dunno ... the anarchists will ride through red lights
anyway.

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TimC
Archived post

4 June 2007, 08:30 UTC #5

On 2007-06-04, EuanB (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
Quoted message said:
cfsmtb said:
Pity the 'Green Wave technology'
(http://www.cykelby.dk/english.asp#wave) couldn't be of assistance
here, although IMHO the issue here for road users stems from visual
overload, confusing signage and a big lump of lack of awareness.
I don't have a problem seeing it but I know where it is. If the
junction was new to me then I may miss it, there's just so much going
on in that junction.
Once I finally discovered it, I was a little worried that I might
contribute to the "all cyclists must run reds" image, because I
imagine most motorists wouldn't notice that the cyclists going through
are actually doing so legally.
But, last time I checked, it didn't say green for taxis as well.
Fscking taxis, all running red lights 😉
--
TimC
"The thing I love most about deadlines is the wonderful WHOOSHing sound
they make as they go past" - DNA

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PiledHigher
Archived post

4 June 2007, 10:29 UTC #6

On Jun 4, 6:30 pm, TimC <[email hidden]-
astro.swin.edu.au said:
On 2007-06-04, EuanB (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
Quoted message said:
cfsmtb said:
Pity the 'Green Wave technology'
(http://www.cykelby.dk/english.asp#wave) couldn't be of assistance
here, although IMHO the issue here for road users stems from visual
overload, confusing signage and a big lump of lack of awareness.
Quoted message said:
I don't have a problem seeing it but I know where it is. If the
junction was new to me then I may miss it, there's just so much going
on in that junction.
Once I finally discovered it, I was a little worried that I might
contribute to the "all cyclists must run reds" image, because I
imagine most motorists wouldn't notice that the cyclists going through
are actually doing so legally.
But, last time I checked, it didn't say green for taxis as well.
Fscking taxis, all running red lights 😉
--
TimC
"The thing I love most about deadlines is the wonderful WHOOSHing sound
they make as they go past" - DNA
I've been abused there by pedestrians (who are crossing against a red)
for crossing against the lights!

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EuanB
Archived post

5 June 2007, 00:21 UTC #7

PiledHigher said:
On Jun 4, 6:30 pm, TimC <[email hidden]-
astro.swin.edu.au said:
On 2007-06-04, EuanB (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
Quoted message said:
cfsmtb said:
Pity the 'Green Wave technology'
(cykelby.dkenglish.asp) couldn't be of assistance
here, although IMHO the issue here for road users stems from visual
overload, confusing signage and a big lump of lack of awareness.
Quoted message said:
I don't have a problem seeing it but I know where it is. If the
junction was new to me then I may miss it, there's just so much going
on in that junction.
Once I finally discovered it, I was a little worried that I might
contribute to the "all cyclists must run reds" image, because I
imagine most motorists wouldn't notice that the cyclists going through
are actually doing so legally.
But, last time I checked, it didn't say green for taxis as well.
Fscking taxis, all running red lights 😉
--
TimC
"The thing I love most about deadlines is the wonderful WHOOSHing sound
they make as they go past" - DNA
I've been abused there by pedestrians (who are crossing against a red)
for crossing against the lights!
Me too, only once in nearly four years though.

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SomeGuy
Archived post

5 June 2007, 12:13 UTC #8

PiledHigher said:
On Jun 4, 6:30 pm, TimC <[email hidden]-
astro.swin.edu.au said:
On 2007-06-04, EuanB (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
Quoted message said:
cfsmtb said:
Pity the 'Green Wave technology'
(http://www.cykelby.dk/english.asp#wave) couldn't be of assistance
here, although IMHO the issue here for road users stems from visual
overload, confusing signage and a big lump of lack of awareness.
Quoted message said:
I don't have a problem seeing it but I know where it is. If the
junction was new to me then I may miss it, there's just so much going
on in that junction.
Once I finally discovered it, I was a little worried that I might
contribute to the "all cyclists must run reds" image, because I
imagine most motorists wouldn't notice that the cyclists going through
are actually doing so legally.
But, last time I checked, it didn't say green for taxis as well.
Fscking taxis, all running red lights 😉
--
TimC
"The thing I love most about deadlines is the wonderful WHOOSHing sound
they make as they go past" - DNA
I've been abused there by pedestrians (who are crossing against a red)
for crossing against the lights!
Me too. Suicidal woman runs across the road causing me to take evasive action, and she had the gall to yell at me! I just get pedalling and said something along the lines of 'you're the one running the red.'

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rooman
Archived post

8 June 2007, 11:35 UTC #9

SomeGuy said:
Me too. Suicidal woman runs across the road causing me to take evasive action, and she had the gall to yell at me! I just get pedalling and said something along the lines of 'you're the one running the red.'
the contribs are good..keep them coming...
work overload (mine) has delayed the meet with VicRoads, but it is likley later next week or early after that...
oh yeah...some of you may have recently attended the community forums for Arrive Alive and and done their online survey and also heard the comment from VicRoads that they want separated facillities for ALL bicyclists and its policy...dadadadadadada yadda yadda.
I took this up with them too and they are apparently a little miffed we've cottoned on to them...
SO as another little excercise I am collating all the material, research and info on the effectiveness and otherwise of separated facillities and why we would prefer VicRoads adopt a more concilliatory approach to bicyclists as legitimate road traffic and to stop trying to force us onto paths and bike lanes...
The recent change underway in UK may be an encouragement ( discouragement?) for them to adjust their "get bicycles off the road" wish list for all bicyclists.
I have a lady from VicRoads wanting me to meet her...(lunch?) and she made some comments about all their arrive alive stuff was an old program or something that sounded like hiding agendas and that they have made changes to intersecting cyclepath/roadway design to "eliminate" crashes (hah I hear you say-along with me)..but I am keen to see this and will report back etc...
Now if you are aware of anything in the way of research, references materials and info that adds in anyway to assessing the effectiveness or otherwise of separation please let me know here or PM or at WoJ...I have a heap of stuff and it is pretty good, but I dont mind duplication on sources as we could miss something...
thanks in advance...it will help us maintain our existing on road as vehicles priviledges and not (lightly) let VicRoads erode them any more....
cheers
Roo

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