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Bicycle Registration

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Recumbent bicycles
Published
22 March 2003
Last activity
12 July 2003
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Andrew & Joanne
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  1. "Dave Patterson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:

    Dear friend,


    SNIP I ran a 2mile steep run down hill 30mph i was doing 45mph down

    Quoted message said:

    this hill, and i had drivers blaze past me at60+!!! This is what you call the "DOG" factor. Like a
    dog,the driver sees some poor schmuck on his pedal pusher burning no gas but buzzing better than
    his steel BOMB and the idiot stomps the gas and goes for the chase! Iguess to prove that he can go
    faster than the bike! BARK BARK BARK. And if given a chance he would try and bite you too!!! DP
    BIKE-E CT

    Yeh, I was doing 60kph downhill in a 50 zone on Friday (in the middle of the lane to discourage
    dangerous overtaking). Small white car overtook (75kph?) then had to immediately slow down for
    vehicle in front of me and roundabout. I drew up beside him (on the flat at about 45kph) and said
    "Was that really

    They hate us because we are smaller or because we look healthy or whatever... because we're too slow
    (or fast!). A plate will make no diff. Mark Lee

  2. In aus.bicycle Tom Sherman said:
    Quoted message said:


    .au

    Such non-cyclist accepting motorists should be forcibly converted to cyclists by having their
    motor vehicles impounded and drivers' licenses revoked (at least on a temporary basic) and being
    required to use HPV's as transportation.

    I think Id pay to see that =)

    Quoted message said:

    If ".au" is a country, this brings up an interesting question. Since URL's from the United States
    of America (USA) do not have a country of origin identifier (.usa?) at the end, does this mean
    that the USA is not a country, or does it mean that the USA intends to rule the rest of the world
    in an imperial manner?

    I think the latter, otherwise they would be using .us, I mean they have it, they just dont use it,
    oh no mention of current activities either.

    Bah.

  3. Maduto wrote,

    Quoted message said:

    What we really need is compulsory bicycle riding schools and driving licences for bicycle riders.

    IMHO, a better direction to go is compulsory driver retesting with each renewal, less focus on
    speeding and more on driver competency, and drop the legal differentiation between deaths caused
    when behind the wheel of a car and those caused when behind any other lethal weapon, involuntary
    manslaughter is involuntary manslaughter.

    --
    Jason King To demunge email: strip invalid, ROT13, add com

  4. here here. what are people thinking of having ANY e-mail set up to bottom load. Problem may be
    though, many people don't know how to change the "preferance" to do this.

    Rob Rudeski said:

    AT LAST!!!!

    Something on which I completely agree with Tom Sherman!

    Rob

    "Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Steve McDonald said:

    No matter which group you use, you'll always find a few anal-retentives who insist you have
    to adhere to their dogma that top-posting is improper....

    I believe that this argument will be settled at the same time everyone agrees on the correct
    orientation [1] to hang toilet paper and paper towel rolls on a dispenser. 🙂

    [1] The rolls should be mounted so the point where the paper hangs tangentially to the rotating
    axis of the roll is away from (or not adjacent to) the structure that the dispenser is mounted
    to. [2] Anyone who believes differently is a cretin. 😉
    [2] This picture shows the correct orientation. < parktool.comTP 2.shtml >

    Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)


  5. Me too. But I'd have never known if he hadn't shown the picture.

    skip

    "Rob Rudeski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    AT LAST!!!!

    Something on which I completely agree with Tom Sherman!

    Rob

    "Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Steve McDonald said:


    No matter which group you use, you'll always find a few anal-retentives who insist you
    have to adhere to their dogma that top-posting is improper....

    I believe that this argument will be settled at the same time everyone agrees on the correct
    orientation [1] to hang toilet paper and paper towel rolls on a dispenser. 🙂

    [1] The rolls should be mounted so the point where the paper hangs tangentially to the rotating
    axis of the roll is away from (or not adjacent to) the structure that the dispenser is
    mounted to. [2] Anyone who believes differently is a cretin. 😉
    [2] This picture shows the correct orientation. < parktool.comTP 2.shtml >

    Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

  6. Bah said:
    In aus.bicycle Tom Sherman said:

    If ".au" is a country, this brings up an interesting question. Since URL's from the United
    States of America (USA) do not have a country of origin identifier (.usa?) at the end, does this
    mean that the USA is not a country, or does it mean that the USA intends to rule the rest of the
    world in an imperial manner?

    I think the latter, otherwise they would be using .us, I mean they have it, they just dont use
    it, oh no mention of current activities either.


    Interesting explanation, but I think it's more likely that country identifiers weren't needed until
    the Internet expanded to outside of the U.S.
    --

    John Foltz --- O _ Baron --- _O _ V-Rex 24/63 --- _\\/\-%)
    _________(_)`=()___________________(_)= (_)_____

  7. Andrew & Joanne said:

    I am currently compiling a paper regarding the registration of bicycles for use on our roads. Now
    at the risk of being called a troll, and evoking emotional and abusive replies, I would like to ask
    you all a few questions to gauge your reactions to the following questions.

    Whether you get abused on Usenet all depends on your manners, and your willingness to engage in
    debate. Going on the defensive before you've even said anything doesn't endear you to the online
    community. Nor does a flat refusal to entertain discussion.

    Quoted message said:

    2. This registration would not include legitimate on or off road cycle races, but would be payable
    if you intended to train on the road.

    This is setting yourself up for hostile responses. You insinuate that riding on the road is
    incidental to training for a race. To the people who will be most affected by compulsory bike
    registration, riding on the road is essential to getting from A to B (that's what roads are for
    after all). Some of us ride on the road just because it's a great way to travel; the exercise
    is a bonus.

    Quoted message said:

    Q1. Do you think that motorists would accept you being on the road more, if you were required to
    register your bicycle in order to ride on the public road? Yes/No

    No.

    Cyclists not having to pay rego is a pretext, not a reason, to hate cyclists who ride on the road.
    Motorists who hate cyclists do so because bicycles are an obstacle to them, like anything else
    moving slower than the speed
    limit. As long as our transport culture teaches people that owning a car gives them a special right
    to travel free of obstacles, finding another pretext to hate cyclists won't be difficult.

    Quoted message said:

    Q2. If you were required to register your bicycle, would you accept the requirement more if the
    cost of it meant that you received a discount on the cost of registering your, or a nominated
    motor vehicle? Yes/No

    No.

    The very suggestion is insane. Not only would you be opposed by every cyclist who doesn't own a car
    (who are more numerous than you appear to think), you would be requiring the government to forgo
    revenue as part of your plan. Thus handing the cyclist-haters another excuse, in the form of envy
    for the cyclists who get discounts on their car rego.

    Quoted message said:

    Q3. If you were required to register your bicycle, would you accept a cost of say $10 per single,
    $15 per couple, $25 per family (3 or more bikes for persons aged over 12 years of age) Yes/No

    No.

    The bureaucratic apparatus required to collect this amount from every owner of a bicycle, to stamp
    out plates and to police the system would cost more than the amount collected. A detailed argument
    to this effect was read into Hansard by the NSW Minister for Transport some years ago; unfortunately
    I don't have a citation handy.

    Quoted message said:

    Q4. If you were required to register your bicycle would you want the registration to include Third
    Party Insurance? Yes/No

    No.

    Compulsory third party insurance is necessary for motor vehicles because it's so easy to turn a car
    into a lethal weapon. There's no more reason to have CTP for my bicycle than for my steel-capped
    hiking boots.

    Quoted message said:

    Q5. If you were required to register your bicycle do you think that the registration would assist
    to reduce the incidence of theft or assist in the recovery of those bicycles? Yes/No

    No.

    It doesn't even really help with car theft.

    Quoted message said:

    Q6. If you were required to register your bicycle would you consider a method of being paid per
    documented ride as a rebate on motor vehicle registration, or as a payment? Yes/No

    No.

    If I had to register my bike I would be paying money to the government. Why am I the one being paid
    here? I'm not sure I understand the question.

    Quoted message said:

    Q7. If you were required to register your bicycle would you prefer a personalised plate? Yes/No

    No.

    My ego's not that fragile.

    Quoted message said:

    Q8. What country do you live in?

    The Land of Oz.

    Regards, Tony M.

  8. brian hughes said:

    Speaking of taxes, in the USA there are tax breaks for buying a qualified electric vehicle or a
    clean-fuel vehicle. But there are certain requirements like having 4-wheels and a motor. What's up
    with that?


    That's easy. Since everyone knows bikes only cost $89.95 at Walmart, it's not worth giving a tax
    incentive. Watch out, if they discover you paid $149.95 or more they will want to hit you with a
    luxury tax!
    --

    John Foltz --- O _ Baron --- _O _ V-Rex 24/63 --- _\\/\-%)
    _________(_)`=()___________________(_)= (_)_____

  9. In article said:

    AT LAST!!!!

    Something on which I completely agree with Tom Sherman!

    Rob

    "Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    I believe that this argument will be settled at the same time everyone agrees on the correct
    orientation [1] to hang toilet paper and paper towel rolls on a dispenser. 🙂

    [1] The rolls should be mounted so the point where the paper hangs tangentially to the rotating
    axis of the roll is away from (or not adjacent to) the structure that the dispenser is
    mounted to. [2] Anyone who believes differently is a cretin. 😉
    [2] This picture shows the correct orientation. < parktool.comTP 2.shtml >

    Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

    I think the correct orientation for hanging these things depends upon whether there is a cat in
    the house.

    Andy

    --
    Anyone who does not, at least occasionally, read a newspaper from another country cannot claim to be
    well informed on any international issue. (Especially now that you can do it on the internet.)

  10. Andrew & Joanne <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Q1. Do you think that motorists would accept you being on the road more, if you were required to
    register your bicycle in order to ride on the public road? Yes/No

    No. It would make things ***one hell of a lot worse***. Some very recent research has found that the
    injury rate of cyclists is strongly related to the number of cyclists in a given area. This has been
    noted in 6-8 different datasets of cyclist injuries vs amount of cycling in several different
    countries and also across countries. The relationships are pretty convincing and look almost
    identical in each case. If the number of cyclists on the roads halves, the research shows that
    injury rate per cyclist increases by an average of 60%.

    Registration could easily halve the amount of cycling - do you really want your risk of injury to
    increase by 60%?

    Q2. If you were required to register your bicycle, would you accept the requirement more if the cost
    of it meant that you received a discount on the cost of registering your, or a nominated motor
    vehicle? Yes/No

    No. Both cyclists and the environment would be better off if the cost of registering motor vehicles
    were reduced to a nominal administrative fee, with road user charges (including CTP) raised by a
    levy on petrol/diesel. Cars that are kept in the garage do no harm to anyone. It's insane to tax
    motor vehicle ownership instead of motor vehicle use. It's also inequitable. Those who can't afford
    to drive much pay the same as those who drive hundreds of kms a day and so have a much greater
    chance of needing their CTP insurance.

    Q3. If you were required to register your bicycle, would you accept a cost of say $10 per single,
    $15 per couple, $25 per family (3 or more bikes for persons aged over 12 years of age) Yes/No

    No.

    Q4. If you were required to register your bicycle would you want the registration to include Third
    Party Insurance? Yes/No

    No. You mean CTP insurance for the medical costs to other road users, similar to that required for
    car drivers? How many road users are injured severely enough to require medical treatment every year
    by cyclists? Wouldn't the administration costs be 10 or 100 times more than the cost of the claims?
    Do you really think this is a sensible idea?

    Q5. If you were required to register your bicycle do you think that the registration would assist to
    reduce the incidence of theft or assist in the recovery of those bicycles? Yes/No

    Not really. Some indelible identification on the frame may help, but I can't see why registration
    would make any difference. Registration wouldn't necessarily even require indelible id on the frame!

    Q6. If you were required to register your bicycle would you consider a method of being paid per
    documented ride as a rebate on motor vehicle registration, or as a payment? Yes/No

    I'd much rather follow the "user-pays" principle and charge motorists (via a petrol/diesel levy) for
    the true costs of using the roads, including greenhouse gas emissions and air pollution. If we did
    this, we could reduce other taxes, or have enough money to fix up our hospitals, medicare and all
    the other things Governments should be doing but claim they can't because of lack of funds.

    Q7. If you were required to register your bicycle would you prefer a personalised plate? Yes/No

    No. It would probably increase the weight and wind resistance. Of course, I might not bother
    registering the bike - just use the car instead. I'm sure that, like the helmet law, it would deter
    people from cycling.

    Q8. What country do you live in? Australia

  11. Iguana Bwana <[email hidden]> wrote:

    :>What we really need is compulsory bicycle riding schools and driving licences for bicycle riders.

    : Why? Evidence abounds that driving schools and compulsory license testing doesn't alter motorist
    : behaviour or increase skill above basic mechanical operation of the vehicle, so why would you
    : suggest similar would affect cyclist behaviour any differently?

    What might help would be relating the cost of third party insurance to the risk posed by the
    driver. At the moment, in Australia, everyone pays pretty similar rates, even totally
    irresponsible drivers who speed, have convictions for drink-driving, or have injured several
    people in the past few years.

    Our policicians argue that driving is a right not a priviledge, so we must subsidize these
    irresponsible maniacs to allow them to remain on the roads (except for any periods where they
    actually lose their licences).

    There are many ways this could be remedied. The simplest would be to allow insurance companies to
    charge CTP premiums according to risk and, for example, allow them to introduce 'no-claim'
    bonuses, as is the norm for motorists who insure against damage to their own or other people's
    cars. (Mandatory CTP covers only medical and other health related costs, not damage to other
    people's cars. It doesn't even have to cover medical costs of injured drivers).

    An even better system would be to allow the above (realistic premiums related to risk) and also
    offer an option to use 'smart-card' technology to pay the premium as an additional levy in
    c/litre whenever the driver buys petrol. The insurance companies would again set the rate,
    depending on their assessed risk, with the levy collected in the same manner as other petrol or
    diesel taxes, to be forwarded to the insurance company, who would claim it back, a bit like they
    now do GST payments.

    This system would ensure that every single driver on the road had CTP insurance - a far cry from
    the current, very unsatisfactory, situation.

    I repeat what I said earlier. If we want to make the
    roads safer, the current situation of subsidizing risky and
    reckless drivers to remain on the roads is sheer madness.

    Don't people think that having CTP premiums related to risk would do far more to make cycling
    safer than mandatory registration for cyclists?

    Out of interest, readers in other countries might also like to comment. How many other countries
    require the driver to carry insurance for health damage to other people, and is it related to the
    risk posed by the driver? How much more would a negligent driver pay?

    : How about this as an alternative. Stop driving the bloody kids to school in the bully barred urban
    : terror taxi and make them cycle or walk so they develop some common bloody road sense whilst
    : they're young and impressionable.

    If I recall correctly, drivers in SUVs (aka barred urban terror taxis) have about 10 times the
    risk of injuring other people as those driving conventional passenger vehicles. If these drivers
    had to pay on average 10 times the CTP premium, I'd bet you see fewer of them on suburban
    streets. They'd be reserved for the bush, where they belong.

    Dorre

    : Iguana Bwana

  12. Quoted message said:

    Mark Lee at [email hidden] wrote: Yeh, I was doing 60kph downhill in a 50 zone on Friday
    (in the middle of the lane to discourage dangerous overtaking). Small white car overtook (75kph?)
    then had to immediately slow down for vehicle in front of me and roundabout. I drew up beside him
    (on the flat at about 45kph) and said "Was that really

    Quoted message said:

    They hate us because we are smaller or because we look healthy or whatever... because we're too
    slow (or fast!). A plate will make no diff. Mark Lee

    This afternoon a mini van driver who drove past THREE signs saying " DO NOT PASS BICYCLES ON THE
    BRIDGE" and the *very* clear multiple and continuous pavement marking that shows the bikes to take
    the middle of the lane (near the solid middle dividing line), gunned it in a lower speed zone area
    to pass me on that bridge and almost had a head on with another mini van.

    Verdict: Selective law-abiding citizen <shrug> I guess it was because I was on a TRIKE and not
    a bicycle.

  13. No thanks. And the reason is that I don't want to get hung up in a great big debate over the thing.
    I was just interested in some feedback via certain questions and that's the way it will stay as far
    as I am concerned. regards, Andrew

    "PC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Andrew & Joanne said:

    I am not going to debate the pro's and con's with everyone, I was just interested in your
    responses. Thanks.

    How about explaining the logic behind your own suggestion? I think plenty of readers here are
    stunned at your suggestion that cyclists would want cheaper car registration and the least you
    could do is to elaborate..

    PC

    A: Top Posters
    Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet

  14. No to all questions. USA /\/\/¨

  15. I answer Australia to all the questions that fit, and no to all the rest.

    Peter

  16. Careful use of the "delete" key and educating Microsith - preferably with a hammer - to not make
    top-posting the default behaviour helps immeasurably.

    "Do not top-post like a Cretinous Foul-Yob fit only for Stoning" - Mr. Nash.

    Dave Larrington - legslarry.crosswinds.netlegslarry.crosswinds.net
    ===========================================================
    Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
    bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.uk
    ===========================================================

  17. Quoted message said:

    And on the subject of registration plates, I don't know anyone who wouldn't laugh at the idea.

    There has been (at least in Finland) registration plates for bicycles, about 100 years ago. The
    detachable plate was a sheet of metal with holes that formed the letters, and the base was red, so
    that it was easy to see if somebody was riding a stolen bike.

  18. Rob Rudeski said:

    I don't understand the opposition to top posting.

    The purpose of quoting is to make it clear _which_ part of the message you are responding to. The
    natural way to do that is to quote just the section you are replying to, and put your reply jusbe
    below that.

    Quoted message said:

    I don't want to have to scroll every time I open a post.

    Bottom posting should not force you to scroll far. You are supposed to quote a small section, just
    enough so you know which part you are replying to. Did you have to scroll down before you got to my
    first paragraph? It's also acceptable to quote a few sentences to remind the reader what the
    discussion was about (like I just did at the beginning) and to show the flow of the discussion, but
    it's NOT acceptable to quote the entire text and tack on a short reply at the end. There was a time
    when many software rejected posts which contained more quoted text than new text.

    I don't see why anyone likes top posting. If you are going to write solid stand-alone paragraphs
    instead of a section-by-section reply, there is no need to quote the previous text at all. If you
    don't remember what the previous discussion was, you can use your newsreader (or web interface) to
    go back and read the previous messages.

    And in case you are wondering who made those rules, they are common netiquette. Just ask anyone
    who's been using UseNet for over 5 years.

    Ken Kobayashi [email hidden] solarwww.mtk.nao.ac.jppersonal

  19. "Markku Poysti" skrev...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    And on the subject of registration plates, I don't know anyone who wouldn't laugh at the idea.

    There has been (at least in Finland) registration plates for bicycles, about 100 years ago. The
    detachable plate was a sheet of metal with holes that formed the letters, and the base was red, so
    that it was easy to see if somebody was riding a stolen bike.

    And theres a swedish bike around. Its a copy of an old army bike. You can get a license plate with
    that too. Quite fashionable in Copenhagen. kronan.dkkronan.dk Nice retro/classic look.

    M.

  20. "Ken Kobayashi" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    And in case you are wondering who made those rules, they are common netiquette. Just ask anyone
    who's been using UseNet for over 5 years.

    And of course "rules" are made to be broken. Some people need to get a life. I wonder if these
    tight assed people can ever get really comfortable outside of their square little boxes. Life is
    full of choices. Choices have consequences. Emotions often drive those choices. Ergo the delete
    key. Deal with it.

    Regards,

    Mike O'Brien

    When two elephants fight it is the grass that suffers...

    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (grisoft.comgrisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.463 / Virus Database: 262 - Release Date: 3/17/2003

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