Bicycle Rack Mishaps?

In article <[email hidden]>, "David L. Johnson"

Quoted message said:

Rick Onanian said:

I don't buy it. I rarely see full size trucks that aren't working trucks...except play trucks
that actually do go off-road. Even most of those plow in the winter.

C'mon. Most of these big trucks, be they humongo-SUVs or 4-door pickups, never see either real
hauling or mud. The whole point is to have this bigger-than-a-semi grill, which is used to
intimidate traffic while commuting. I'm surprised they don't come with chrome teeth on the grill,
to complete the image.

The SUV of choice around here is the Hummer H2.

A neighbor has one, and I asked her if it has ever been off road.

³I parked on the lawn yesterday. Does that count?²

As for carrying a load of horse manure for the rose garden......

HAND - Ride Safe

--
³Freedom Is a Light for Which Many Have Died in Darkness³

- Tomb of the unknown - American Revolution

Rick Onanian said:

Craig Brossman said:

Quoted message said:

"Rick Onanian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

>What bothers me is people with empty pickup trucks, vans, and full size SUVs, using trunk racks
>or hitch racks. If they're not going to put stuff in there, they'd probably be better served by
>a smaller vehicle.

Not too mention how easy it is to lock up 4 bikes on my hitch rack

How easy is it? I know some racks have built-in locking mechanisms, useful if the rack is locked
to the hitch too.

Of course, don't you use a locking pin on everything that goes into your class 3 hitch?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

instead of the back of my P/U. Plus I can stop at the recycling center on the way, drop off a load
of cardboard or bottles, carry camping gear, tubes and rafts for an after ride river float ...

That's no empty truck with a bike on a rack, then. That's a full truck with a bike on a rack;
totally different animal.

It is empty after I stop at the recycling center, now isn't it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have my hitch rack on my truck most of the year, and very often I'll use it instead of putting
my single bike in the bed of the truck, sometimes I do put it in the bed. Since I often haul rock,
dirt or gravel, the bed is not a pretty place to keep my road or even mountain bike.

Unless the bed is full of rock, dirt, or gravel, I can't see why a dirty bed is a bad place for a
bike. A mountain bike, obviously, is going to be very dirty anyway; and a road bike rides on a
road covered in dirt, dust, pebbles, and broken glass...and on the rack, they're subject to crud
kicked up off the road while you drive.

Perhaps, but better than rolling around in the bed with all sorts of debris. I travel from the SW
colorado to the front range with bikes on the hitch rack and they are not covered with crud
kicked up.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

YMMV

Indeed. It just seems ludicrous to me to see a pickup or SUV completely empty with a bike dangling
off a wobbly rack -- an all too common sight.
--

Get a better hitch rack. Here in Durango it is mostly P/Us and SUVs and plenty of bikes. I don't
know anyone who minds how anyone else hauls their bikes, if they have to haul. And most everyone
uses they vehicle for their intended purposes, hauling material, trailers, horses, family, and
driving thru the snow, 4WD roads and the like.

I guess because it doesn't make sense in the big city, it doesn't make sense here. Oh well, it seems
ludicrous to me that you really care.

--
Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado (remove ".nospam" to reply)

Rick Onanian said:

I will not have the word "truck" sullied with SUVs and 4-door extra-short-bed "pickups"! I will
haul a bunch of wrecking equipment around and destroy any one I see that somebody claims is a
"truck".

Oh I see now, you have a better "truck" than anyone else. There is no way a 4-door truck can haul as
much rock as yours, pull as much of a load as yours ... No way anyone can use an SUV or van as a
work vehicle. Whatever.

Quoted message said:

--
Rick Onanian

--
Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado (remove ".nospam" to reply)

Rick Onanian said:

I will not have the word "truck" sullied with SUVs and 4-door extra-short-bed "pickups"! I will
haul a bunch of wrecking equipment around and destroy any one I see that somebody claims is a
"truck".

Well, the guvvmint calls them trucks, so's the manufacturer can avoid safety, emmisions, and fuel
economy standards that only apply to "cars".

--

David L. Johnson

__o | This is my religion. There is no need for temples; no need for _`\(,_ | complicated
philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our (_)/ (_) | temple. The philosophy is kindness.
--The Dalai Lama

Craig Brossman said:

I guess because it doesn't make sense in the big city, it doesn't make sense here. Oh well, it
seems ludicrous to me that you really care.

Heheh...me? City? I don't think so. I avoid the city (see recent thread about eliminating cars
and trucks).

I don't really care that much, just seems rather out of place and silly. It gives me a laugh just
like seeing an old lady in a big off-road SUV with a staircase up to the driver's seat.
--
Rick Onanian

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 05:09:38 GMT, "Buck" <s c h w i n n _ f o r _ s a l e @ h o t m a i l . c

o m said:

"Rick Onanian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message Personally, I like the look of a well-used
spray-in bedliner better than a combo of paints and rust. I've read some good reviews of the
Herculiner

Yup, those liquid-applied liners do look nice, and your stuff doesn't slide on them -- good for not
having to strap everything every time, but sometimes makes it difficult to load heavy items.

Quoted message said:

roll-on version for do-it-yourselfers. I may give that one a shot if I still have the same
truck in the spring (it rolled 176,000 miles the other day and the engine is starting to show
signs of wear).

At 176,000 miles with doubts as to how long you'll continue to have it, you're worried about the
paint in the bed?

Hey, wait a minute...didn't you say that you carry gravel and stuff? How's that treat the bed paint?

Quoted message said:

Accidents are rare and not a problem. Road spray shouldn't matter if you are hauling mountain
bikes, remember? As for it being precarious, I don't think

Indeed, just as bed-dirt shouldn't matter either.

Quoted message said:

so. It takes quite a bit of ooomph to bend a receiver hitch. As long as the

It's not the hitch, it's the rack that I worry about. They often seem to have weak points -- where
it makes the 90 degree angle from the receiver to the up-bar, for example. That spot takes a lot of
leverage from the weight of the bikes.

Quoted message said:

bikes are attached properly, what's to worry about? Also, at the back of the truck, road debris
isn't a factor. A roof rack on a car or SUV is a concern, but primarily due to bugs.

On a wet day, the water spray will contain mud. On a dry day, you won't get much debris, but you get
none in the bed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No frame scuffs. I positioned the racks (they slide 🙂 such that

Yeah, but you are using a rack anyway!

Heheh...yeah, but not a dangling bike rack. Those racks carry over a thousand pounds, and I used
good straps; and the bikes were supported better than they are by a bike rack. However, most
relevantly, the truck wasn't empty. Any rack is great when there's stuff in the cargo area.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The bikes on the racks attached to the SUVs and trucks. The dirty ones are owned by people who,
as I say there, don't bother with a rack. This is not a generalization but an observation. I pull
up to the trail and there's 8 trucks/SUVs, and one might have a rack. Even cars at trailheads
rarely have racks, and if they do, they're roof racks. At MUPs, it's a different story; parking
is loaded with SUVs with racks -- but those bikes don't get dirty.

We obviously don't ride in the same places.... I avoid MUPs as much as possible and all of the
bikes at the trails return muddied.

Yes, all of the bikes at the trails return muddied, and are promptly placed in trucks, SUVs, and
cars that have no racks. That's my point -- the real MTBers I observe (the ones whose bikes get
dirty, which you said is a reason not to put them inside) mostly put their bikes in. The rack users
don't go to dirty trails, they ride MUPs, sometimes with clean MTBs, usually with comfort, road, or
department store bikes.

Quoted message said:

much better when I bought a rack for that car.

Yup, a good rack is great on a car. Less-good racks are no easier than cleaning the car.

Quoted message said:

HAH! I wish I never crashed. But I do treat my bike with respect. As I said, keep it rubber side
down and out of the trees and there aren't any problems.

You crash without scratching your bike? Wow.

Quoted message said:

Mesquite can do a real number on your bike, so keeping it out of the trees

Mesquite is great for a brisket, too. 😉

Quoted message said:

has special meaning around here. It helps that most of the trails are well maintained. There isn't
much rock to deal with either.

OIC. We're loaded with rocks of all shapes and sizes; any crash is guaranteed to damage your
bike's finish.

Quoted message said:

It's funny how everyone's experience can be so different while doing the same activity!

Yup. Maybe because "everything's bigger in Texas", your bikes don't fit in your pickup beds (maybe
the bikes are 500% bigger but the pickup beds are only 150% bigger). Yeah, that's the ticket. <G>

Quoted message said:

-Buck

--
Rick Onanian

H. M. Leary said:

"David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote: The SUV of choice around here is the Hummer
H2. A neighbor has one, and I asked her if it has ever been off road. ³I parked on the lawn
yesterday. Does that count?²

That's about average for most off-road SUV owners. Actual off-roaders tend to drive 4x4 pickups
(compact if they don't haul stuff, full size for work).

Quoted message said:

As for carrying a load of horse manure for the rose garden......

Sorry, even I wouldn't carry manure in an SUV (if you could get me to drive one). That's what pickup
trucks are for.

Quoted message said:

HAND - Ride Safe

--
Rick Onanian

"Buck" <s c h w i n n _ f o r _ s a l e @ h o t m a i l . c o m> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Rick Onanian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What bothers me is people with empty pickup trucks, vans, and full size SUVs, using trunk racks
or hitch racks. If they're not going to put stuff in there, they'd probably be better served by
a smaller vehicle.

Now that's a silly thing to be bothered by. I'm looking forward to getting a hitch rack for my
truck. Partly so I can keep the pedals and barends from rubbing on the truck bed, causing paint
loss on both the bed and the bike parts. Partly so I can load up the bed of the truck with camping
gear and not have to strap the bikes on top. In an SUV, it's even harder to carry all of your gear
and the bikes if you have to load the bikes inside. Outside racks also keep the inside of the SUV
from being mucked up by the dirt from the trail. There are lots of reasons to not put a bike into
a truck or SUV.

-Buck

One of the reasons I bought an SUV was so I could haul 2 bikes (I can actually fit 3) inside and out
of the elements while being upright and secure. I bought 2 front wheel lock downs and fashioned a
base out of 2x4s to mount them to. Easy as cake and works great.

But I also have a rack, as like Buck said, I can't fit even 3 people plus their bikes inside. I
don't use it often, but I do need it nonetheless. I bought a hitch rack rather than a roof rack
because I didn't want my bike full of bugs and I figured being lower it would be easier to mount
bikes on. But I found out bugs are probably better than being caked with dust like they get in back.
Plus I got a Saris BAT rack POS which is very difficult to mount bikes on securely, which shot my
ease-of-use theory all to hell.

BTW if anybody is interested I have a lightly used Saris BAT hitch rack for sale 😉

Rick Onanian <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

David L. Johnson said:

Rick Onanian said:

I don't buy it. I rarely see full size trucks that aren't working trucks...except play trucks
that actually do go off-road. Even most of those plow in the winter.

C'mon. Most of these big trucks, be they humongo-SUVs or 4-door pickups,

I will not have the word "truck" sullied with SUVs and 4-door extra-short-bed "pickups"! I will
haul a bunch of wrecking equipment around and destroy any one I see that somebody claims is a
"truck".

Quoted message said:

never see either real hauling or mud. The whole point is to have this

I see the problem now...I'm offended by calling anything that isn't good for work a truck, so I
naturally only think of work-able vehicles when somebody says truck. Then, when somebody says
trucks aren't doing work, I can't believe it because I forget that they are referring to SUVs
as trucks.

Huh? My dad has a 4-cylinder, 4x2 ranger he uses as a delivery vehicle to haul parts. Now you are
telling me that his Ranger can be considered a truck (it is "working" after all) but a V10 Excursion
can not? The Excusion is much more "work-able". Heck a full-size 4-door shortbed is more
"work-able". And I don't see how you figure most pickups are used for work. I live in North Dakota,
a mostly blue-collar state, and most pickups (the ones that meet your criteria) I know never haul
anything more than a 40 lb bag of fertilizer. Granted many are actually used for work and for
hauling all sorts of things, and they are certainly useful. But most are bought solely for image and
because some people think they need a 300 HP 3/4 ton full-size pickup to pull their 2000 pound
snowmobile trailer.

I could easily prove to you how "work-able" my 4-runner has been for me, but seeing as I don't have
a mullet you will probably never take me serously.

Craig Brossman said:

Rick Onanian said:

I will not have the word "truck" sullied with SUVs and 4-door extra-short-bed "pickups"! I will
haul a bunch of wrecking equipment around and destroy any one I see that somebody claims is a
"truck".

Glad to see your humor detector was on. Okay, here goes...

Quoted message said:

Oh I see now, you have a better "truck" than anyone else. There is no way a 4-door truck can haul
as much rock as yours, pull as much of a

A truck with a 3 foot bed is an SUV. It's not useful for carrying much of anything, apart from a
couple wheelbarrow loads of dirt. When the passenger area exceeds the cargo area (I said area, not
volume), it ceases to be a "truck", IMO. A four door truck with a reasonable bed is a truck; it's
the trucks with the new ultra-small beds, whose market is people who want something like a truck but
don't need all that pesky cargo capacity, that then become an SUV.

Quoted message said:

load as yours ... No way anyone can use an SUV or van as a work vehicle.

Vans are great work vehicles. My company has a Ford E250 van that I have no problem calling a truck
-- it carries thousands of pounds of materials at a time. I've even seen minivans outfitted as
trucks; Dodge even mass-produced a "Caravan CV" for commercial use.

This isn't about what _can_ be done. It's about what _is_ done. I rarely see working SUVs, and have
_never_ seen a working "pickup" with the extra-short bed. Now they even commonly come with hard
covers over the "bed"; that makes it a trunk, and the vehicle becomes a really large sedan. That
makes quite a nice car, really.

If there were similarly comfortable cars on the market, many of those consumers would buy such a car
instead. Rather, just as there's a dearth of touring bikes, with the touring bikes that do exist
being almost as aggressive as racing bikes, large cars are few.

Quoted message said:

Whatever.

I have to say, a major portion of my annoyance to saying "truck" when referring to an SUV stems from
confusion resulting from my girlfriend saying "Let's take the truck", and she walks towards the
chevy blazer, and I walk to the pickup truck.
--
Rick Onanian

(Phil) said:

Huh? My dad has a 4-cylinder, 4x2 ranger he uses as a delivery vehicle to haul parts. Now you are
telling me that his Ranger can be considered a truck (it is "working" after all) but a V10
Excursion can

Yes, that's quite the point -- the truck is doing work, hauling stuff. It doesn't have to be big
and macho.

Quoted message said:

not? The Excusion is much more "work-able". Heck a full-size 4-door

How so? Aren't auto parts greasy? Didn't we determine earlier in this thread that we don't want the
interior of our SUVs messed up?

A fellow I know, who runs a different roofing company, has an Expedition. He commonly puts materials
in it, and drags _heavy_ trailers. He uses his SUV as a truck.

The family that uses it for commuting and vacations is using it as a minivan. The old lady who uses
it as a grocery-getter is using it as a car.

Quoted message said:

shortbed is more "work-able". And I don't see how you figure most pickups are used for work. I live
in North Dakota, a mostly blue-collar state, and most pickups (the ones that meet your criteria) I
know never haul anything more than a 40 lb bag of fertilizer. Granted many are actually used for
work and for hauling all sorts of

Er...if they're used for work, then that makes them work trucks, unless you mean they're used for
commuting to work at the office.

I observe trucks on the road and see trucks fitting these descriptions: Dirty truck with dented bed
and toolbox that obviously carries stuff Truck with heavy duty ladder racks (you don't put these on
for groceries) Truck with heavy duty trailer hitch that obviously sees use Truck with cap (and tool
shelves inside) for tradesman

I rarely see a truck that doesn't show evidence of actually being used for work -- except big-tire
off-road trucks which are only created by people who actually do go off-road. That's a play truck,
which could be replaced by an SUV, except the damn things are too expensive (not that a good pickup
is cheap anymore...).

Quoted message said:

things, and they are certainly useful. But most are bought solely for image and because some people
think they need a 300 HP 3/4 ton full-size pickup to pull their 2000 pound snowmobile trailer.

I suppose a compact pickup or a mid-size/large SUV could do that. Most cars and compact SUVs can't.

There is comfort. My work truck is more comfortable than any car I've ever been in, except an old
Cadillac (new ones suck). There's actually room for my elbows and knees; there's properly placed
support for them too; there's room for a passenger to put their arm on the center armrest too; and
the split bench seat is not as restrictive as a bucket while being properly supportive and
individually adjustable. The old Caddy had similar, though less supportive, split bench seats. New
cars crunch me into positions I normally reserve for my road bike...

Quoted message said:

I could easily prove to you how "work-able" my 4-runner has been for me, but seeing as I don't have
a mullet you will probably never take me serously.

Sorry, no mullet here either. If you've been doing work or going off-road with your 4runner, great;
that's what it was designed for.

If, OTOH, you're afraid to put your bike inside it, then it doesn't sound like a very useful "truck"
to me. That is, after all, how we got on this subject; it's a bit off-topic for this group, don'tcha
think? I just find it laughable to see a bike on a rack on an empty, pristine truck or SUV, whose
whole existence is for the purpose of carrying stuff like bikes without a special rack.

I then find it bothersome when such a rig includes a cheesy rack that looks like it will drop the
bike onto the highway. I've seen too many accidents from people who are so afraid to hit some piece
of debris on the highway to not be bothered by unsecured loads.

That reminds me: Pickup users: NEVER leave an empty garbage barrel loose in the bed. You may not
care if you lose a $8 barrel, but I watched a terrible accident happen when somebody tried to avoid
a barrel (which they should have just hit instead) two cars in front of me. I constantly see barrels
on the side of the interstate, so I know people aren't securing them. Strap the damn things in!

And if you're driving and see a piece of debris in the road too late to safely maneuver around it,
hit it! Especially a Rubbermaid barrel rolling in the wind, obviously empty. Note that I said "too
late to safely maneuver around it"...else I'll get a hundred replies saying that I'm encouraging
carelessness. 😉
--
Rick Onanian

Rick Onanian said:

Now they even commonly come with hard covers over the "bed"; that makes it a trunk, and the
vehicle becomes a really large sedan. That makes quite a nice car, really.

I don't get that. I suggest that, if you want a 4-door sedan, get one.

Quoted message said:

If there were similarly comfortable cars on the market, many of those consumers would buy such a
car instead.

What is so comfortable about a pickup truck? That ain't the point of a truck, is it?

--

David L. Johnson

__o | This is my religion. There is no need for temples; no need for _`\(,_ | complicated
philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our (_)/ (_) | temple. The philosophy is kindness.
--The Dalai Lama

"Rick Onanian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

At 176,000 miles with doubts as to how long you'll continue to have it, you're worried about the
paint in the bed?

It's one of those conundrums - I had the entire truck, with the exception of the inside of the bed,
repainted after a recent mishap with another truck (not my fault and he paid for everything). The
next step is to wonder if it is worth replacing the engine when it dies. The truck certainly won't
be worth it, but it will be cheaper than a new truck. I have more than a few classic bikes, but I
haven't upgraded to the latest Campagnolo....

Quoted message said:

Hey, wait a minute...didn't you say that you carry gravel and stuff? How's that treat the
bed paint?

Any time I haul dirt or gravel, I always place a good tarp in the bed. This makes it easier to
unload, clean up, and keep the load dry (the tarp is twice the size of the bed and is folded over
the load and tied down). I do this with any load that I want to keep dry. If you haven't tried out
one of those large bungee spider-webs for your truck, I highly recommend them. I have one for small
loads that aren't higher than the bed and another for large loads that are higher than the cab.
Neither works well for bikes, though.

Quoted message said:

On a wet day, the water spray will contain mud. On a dry day, you won't get much debris, but you
get none in the bed.

I haven't had the debris problem and even the rainy day dirt isn't too bad. I guess it all depends
on the roads. When gravel roads were a regular part of my driving experience, my truck was filthy
all of the time. Gravel dust gets *everywhere*.

Buck said:

Quoted message said:

It's funny how everyone's experience can be so different while doing the same activity!

Yup. Maybe because "everything's bigger in Texas", your bikes don't fit in your pickup beds (maybe
the bikes are 500% bigger but the pickup beds are only 150% bigger). Yeah, that's the ticket. <G>

Heh.

-Buck

In article <[email hidden]>, "H. M. Leary"

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "David L. Johnson"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

The SUV of choice around here is the Hummer H2. A neighbor has one, and I asked her if it has ever
been off road. ³I parked on the lawn yesterday. Does that count?²

A former coworker, the kind that wears a dozen bracelets and earrings at work, bought a Lexus SUV
some years ago. At the time my impression was that her idea of a wilderness area was a parking lot
without lines.

Van

--
Van Bagnol / v a n at wco dot com / c r l at bagnol dot com ...enjoys - Theatre / Windsurfing /
Skydiving / Mountain Biking ...feels - "Parang lumalakad ako sa loob ng paniginip" ...thinks - "An
Error is Not a Mistake ... Unless You Refuse to Correct It"

"Rick Onanian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sorry, even I wouldn't carry manure in an SUV (if you could get me to drive one). That's what
pickup trucks are for.

My mom once hauled several bags of sheep manure for the garden in the trunk of a 1972 Plymouth
Duster. She bought it in the morning and left it in there all day. We couldn't ride in that car
without the windows down for weeks.....

Manure has no place inside a closed vehicle. I feel the same way about putting muddy bikes inside a
vehicle. You never know what you are bringing on board.

-Buck

"Rick Onanian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

That reminds me: Pickup users: NEVER leave an empty garbage barrel loose in the bed. You may not
care if you lose a $8 barrel, but I watched a terrible accident happen when somebody tried to
avoid a barrel (which they should have just hit instead) two cars in front of me. I constantly see
barrels on the side of the interstate, so I know people aren't securing them. Strap the damn
things in!

I've seen worse. On a recent trip to Arkansas, the traffic on the freeway was stopped as a local
hunter endeavored to pick up the smashed remains of a four-wheeler that had rolled off the trailer
(which was being hauled by a four-wheel drive pristine truck). Of course, he didn't think to
actually move the truck/trailer combo OFF of the freeway. He just slammed on the brakes and put it
in park in the left lane.

I also know a fellow who thought the parking brake was sufficient to hold his tractor with the
brush-hog in place on the trailer while he made a quick trip down the freeway. He was fortunate that
it made it to the grass median without hitting another vehicle or flipping over.

I have lots of great lost-load stories to share (I guess it comes with the territory), but none of
them involve lost bikes. I've always been too paranoid and strapped everything down really well.

-Buck

"David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Rick Onanian said:

Now they even commonly come with hard covers over the "bed"; that makes it a trunk, and the
vehicle becomes a really large sedan. That makes quite a nice car, really.

I don't get that. I suggest that, if you want a 4-door sedan, get one.

While we currently have one of each, a truck and a 4-door sedan, we will be replacing the old truck
with a newer 4-door model when the time is right. It's much more convenient to have two passenger
haulers when you have kids. It's also better to have one that can haul the loads as well as the kids
instead of owning three vehicles. Sure, I could own two cars and only rent a truck when I needed
one, but that would mean lining the pockets of rent a wreck at least twice a month. I am fortunate
that I rarely need the capacity of a long bed full-size truck, except in the passenger compartment.
I figure that this is true for most 4-door truck owners, thus the boom in that market.

-Buck

Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:54:06 -0500, <[email hidden]>, Rick Onanian

Quoted message said:

This isn't about what _can_ be done. It's about what _is_ done. I rarely see working SUVs, and have
_never_ seen a working "pickup" with the extra-short bed. Now they even commonly come with hard
covers over the "bed"; that makes it a trunk, and the vehicle becomes a really large sedan. That
makes quite a nice car, really.

Really? Until you get hit by one - then you might wish it had been a compact passenger sedan that at
least gives some design consideration to pedestrian crash survival.
--
zk

Rick Onanian <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(Phil) said:

Huh? My dad has a 4-cylinder, 4x2 ranger he uses as a delivery vehicle to haul parts. Now you are
telling me that his Ranger can be considered a truck (it is "working" after all) but a V10
Excursion can

Yes, that's quite the point -- the truck is doing work, hauling stuff. It doesn't have to be big
and macho.

Quoted message said:

not? The Excusion is much more "work-able". Heck a full-size 4-door

How so? Aren't auto parts greasy? Didn't we determine earlier in this thread that we don't want
the interior of our SUVs messed up?

A fellow I know, who runs a different roofing company, has an Expedition. He commonly puts
materials in it, and drags _heavy_ trailers. He uses his SUV as a truck.

But according to your earlier post an SUV is not a truck. That was my point. What it is used for
does not make it a truck or not. Being a truck makes it a truck, how it is used says something about
the owner.

Quoted message said:

The family that uses it for commuting and vacations is using it as a minivan. The old lady who
uses it as a grocery-getter is using it as a car.

Agreed. But that doesn't mean it isn't a truck or "work-able"

Quoted message said:

Er...if they're used for work, then that makes them work trucks, unless you mean they're used for
commuting to work at the office.

Yes. Hauling a bag of fertilizer or a bag of groceries is not my idea of work. Using a pickup as a
commuter isn't either.

Quoted message said:

I observe trucks on the road and see trucks fitting these descriptions: Dirty truck with dented
bed and toolbox that obviously carries stuff Truck with heavy duty ladder racks (you don't put
these on for groceries) Truck with heavy duty trailer hitch that obviously sees use Truck with cap
(and tool shelves inside) for tradesman

Yes I see those too. But they are the minority, just like SUVs used as SUVs are in the minority.

Quoted message said:

I rarely see a truck that doesn't show evidence of actually being used for work -- except big-tire
off-road trucks which are only created by people who actually do go off-road. That's a play truck,
which could be replaced by an SUV, except the damn things are too expensive (not that a good
pickup is cheap anymore...).

Yep I bought an SUV because a pickup wasn't much cheaper, and I liked having a warm cargo area.

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things, and they are certainly useful. But most are bought solely for image and because some
people think they need a 300 HP 3/4 ton full-size pickup to pull their 2000 pound snowmobile
trailer.

I suppose a compact pickup or a mid-size/large SUV could do that. Most cars and compact
SUVs can't.

Many can, more than you think. Most people grossly overestimate what they need for towing. They
figure if they can't climb a mountain at 75 mph while towing 7000 lbs it just won't do, even though
most have absolutely no need for that. Most full size cars are capable of pulling 2000 lbs, as well
as most compact SUVs. Even my wife's Civic can pull 1000 lbs, which would be about one snowmobile or
jet ski with trailer. No it's not ideal for that but it will get the job done.

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There is comfort. My work truck is more comfortable than any car I've ever been in, except an old
Cadillac (new ones suck). There's actually room for my elbows and knees; there's properly placed
support for them too; there's room for a passenger to put their arm on the center armrest too; and
the split bench seat is not as restrictive as a bucket while being properly supportive and
individually adjustable. The old Caddy had similar, though less supportive, split bench seats. New
cars crunch me into positions I normally reserve for my road bike...

That's your opinion. I find my wife's Civic comfortable enough and I'm 6'3". I find most full-size
pickup seats to be very flat and unsupportive, the ride bouncy, the handling poor, and abysmal
manuverability. No, comfort is not a strong suit of trucks IMO. The space is nice though. In fact
I'd say the space in full-size trucks and SUVs is a major factor in some people's decision to buy
one that they would otherwise have no use for. But wait, isn't that sound reasoning by what you just
wrote? It appears to be difficult to please you.

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I could easily prove to you how "work-able" my 4-runner has been for me, but seeing as I don't
have a mullet you will probably never take me serously.

Sorry, no mullet here either. If you've been doing work or going off-road with your 4runner,
great; that's what it was designed for.

If, OTOH, you're afraid to put your bike inside it, then it doesn't sound like a very useful
"truck" to me. That is, after all, how we got on this subject; it's a bit off-topic for this
group, don'tcha think? I just find it laughable to see a bike on a rack on an empty, pristine
truck or SUV, whose whole existence is for the purpose of carrying stuff like bikes without a
special rack.

I agree completely on that one. If I wanted a car, that's what I would have bought. Who cares if
there's a few scratches or it gets some dirt in it, I paid the premium an SUV demands because that
is what I needed. It would be silly not to use it, as I could have bought a much nicer car for that
price. And yes this is a bit off topic so I'll stop now, but you are the one who brought it here.

David L. Johnson said:

Rick Onanian said:

Now they even commonly come with hard covers over the "bed"; that makes it a trunk, and the
vehicle becomes a really large sedan. That makes quite a nice car, really.

I don't get that. I suggest that, if you want a 4-door sedan, get one.

I agree, but people continue to buy those 4-door trucks with the extra-small bed and the hard cover
(which then becomes a trunk, making the vehicle a sedan). It may have something to do with the
comfort, discussed below.

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If there were similarly comfortable cars on the market, many of those consumers would buy such a
car instead.

What is so comfortable about a pickup truck? That ain't the point of a truck, is it?

It doesn't matter what the point is; the end result is that a modern full size pickup is a very
comfortable vehicle. I assume that full size SUVs, or at least GM and Ford ones that share nearly
all components with pickups (including platform and interior), are just as comfortable.

Why is that comfortable? There's room to relax. The ride (as in suspension & tires) is a good
balance of "sporty" and "plush". Older folks whose backs and legs hurt have an easy time getting in
and out because they don't have to pull themselves up from a sitting position that's six inches off
the ground. The seat in a truck is much higher off the floor than in a car, so you're sitting, not
laying down in it -- your knees are bent. The window is not right up against your head. The door is
not right up against your body. The ceiling leaves room above your head. The dashboard is big enough
to put your briefcase (or bike store receipts) on. There's room under the seat for your hat (or new
crankset).

Must I go on? Even large modern cars are too small and "sporty" for many people to be
comfortable. There's a couple dinosaurs left that may still be reasonable, but mostly only
elderly people drive them.

Minivans are pretty good for most of that comfort, too. But if they're spending that much money
(ever priced a nicely equipped minivan? Especially with AWD for slippery weather...) and driving a
vehicle that's excessive for them anyway, they might as well have one that looks nice and is
fun...so they buy the full size SUV (big station wagon) or the "pickup" that's really a sedan.

It's not the best possible vehicle for them, but it's the best available vehicle for their
priorities. When they use it to buy groceries, pick up the kids, and commute to work, it
certainly isn't a truck. When they hook their bike onto a rack, leaving an empty bed or cargo
area, it looks silly.
--
Rick Onanian