Between Veloce and Centaur

I'd give up the heavyweight Sirocco wheels, which offer no advantage, and get the better components.

Nick

"Wort" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm struggling with a decision. I can afford a Veloce Gruppo (10 speed) and a Sirocco wheelset or
a Centaur Gruppo with a factory built (Marinoni) wheelset.

Is the Centaur componet set good enough that I should give up the wheel set?

Nick Payne said:

I'd give up the heavyweight Sirocco wheels, which offer no advantage, and get the better
components.

I think that the Centaur and Veloce are the same. The Centaur has a hole/loop in the shift paddle.

Paul Kopit said:

Quoted message said:

I'd give up the heavyweight Sirocco wheels, which offer no advantage, and get the better
components.

I think that the Centaur and Veloce are the same. The Centaur has a hole/loop in the shift paddle.

There are differences with the rest of the stuff. Centaur chainrings are better; Centaur
derailleurs, cassette & BB are lighter.

~PB

Get the Centaur, and build your own cheaper wheels with the Centaur hubs.

-jl

"Wort" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm struggling with a decision. I can afford a Veloce Gruppo (10 speed) and a Sirocco wheelset or
a Centaur Gruppo with a factory built (Marinoni) wheelset.

Is the Centaur componet set good enough that I should give up the wheel set?

Wort said:

I'm struggling with a decision. I can afford a Veloce Gruppo (10 speed) and a Sirocco wheelset or a
Centaur Gruppo with a factory built (Marinoni) wheelset.

Quoted message said:

Is the Centaur componet set good enough that I should give up the wheel set?

I think that there is a major difference between Veloce and Centaur. Veloce is part of the low-end
componentry line, and Centaur is part of the high end stuff, which means that the more durable parts
(Chorus and Record) should interface and provide spares for your Centaur stuff.

You can easily upgrade the wheels in 2 years when you get more money, but it will be difficult and
much more expensive to upgrade all the parts.

If you really want to save money forget about the exotic wheels and get some REAL MAN wheels which
means normal centaur hubs and open pro rims, and maybe a few exotic spokes. With the money you save,
because spares are cheap and plentiful, you'll be upgrading to a full record 2006 gruppo in no
time... :-) :-)

- Don Gillies San Diego, CA

Donald Gillies said:

I think that there is a major difference between Veloce and Centaur. Veloce is part of the low-end
componentry line, and Centaur is part of the high end stuff,

No it isn't.

Quoted message said:

which means that the more durable parts (Chorus and Record) should interface and provide spares
for your Centaur stuff.

It doesn't work like that. There is no distinct point where the "low end" ends and the "high end"
starts and Centaur straddles both. The crank arms are like Veloce's (and don't fit Chorus BB) but
the chainrings are in the Chorus class. Brakes are very similar to Veloce but hubs are virtually the
same as Chorus's. Both Centaur and Veloce derailleurs and Ergos are compatible with Chorus and
Record stuff, and even some Record small parts fit Veloce. Remember that Veloce now has a 10-speed
option as well.

See the Spare Parts section on campagnolo.com for full details.

~PB

"Donald Gillies" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de :
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think that there is a major difference between Veloce and Centaur. Veloce is part of the low-end
componentry line, and Centaur is part of the high end stuff, which means that the more durable
parts (Chorus and Record) should interface and provide spares for your Centaur stuff.

I can't agree with the idea that Veloce is "low-end", since it (version
2003) is identical to, even better than, previous (1998) Chorus. I prefer the new shift lever
and Ergo body. If the Chorus was high-end in a few years ago, it's hard to call Veloce low-
end today.

Quoted message said:

You can easily upgrade the wheels in 2 years when you get more money, but it will be difficult and
much more expensive to upgrade all the parts.

Not quite true, as we know the longevity of Campa is more than just a couple of years. It's the lust
for new toys that will drive "upgrades". It was not a great deal of engineering to change the Veloce
to 10-speed, either. Thankfully, they didn't change the hub splines again, as they did from 8-speed.
But even that can be upgraded to 9/10 S.

Quoted message said:

If you really want to save money forget about the exotic wheels and get some REAL MAN wheels which
means normal centaur hubs and open pro rims, and maybe a few exotic spokes.

Why Campy has gone to pre-built wheels has more to do with marketing than function. Their new Vento
may not be a bad wheel set, but it lets them out of producing plain rims, sold at lower margins.
--
Bonne route,

Sandy Paris FR

none-<< I'm struggling with a decision. I can afford a Veloce Gruppo (10 speed) and a Sirocco
wheelset or a Centaur Gruppo with a factory built (Marinoni) wheelset.

Is the Centaur componet set good enough that I should give up the wheel set? >><BR><BR>

Both groupsets for 2004 are very similar. The biggest advantage of Centaur is the hubset, which
sounds like is not a player in your decision.

Chainrings, BB, ders, etc are almost a wash for both.

Can ya get the Veloce groupset with a Centaur hubset? My only recommendation.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

none-<< I'm struggling with a decision. I can afford a Veloce Gruppo (10 speed) and a Sirocco
wheelset or a Centaur Gruppo with a factory built (Marinoni) wheelset.

Is the Centaur componet set good enough that I should give up the wheel set? >><BR><BR>

Both groupsets for 2004 are very similar. The biggest advantage of Centaur

is

Quoted message said:

the hubset, which sounds like is not a player in your decision.

Chainrings, BB, ders, etc are almost a wash for both.

Can ya get the Veloce groupset with a Centaur hubset? My only

recommendation.

Quoted message said:

Agree, the Centaur/Daytona/Athena hubset is a fantastic bargain as you basically get Record hub
innards (cones, races, bearings) for not much more than veloce price. In fact, the Centaur hub at
something like 260-270g (w/o skewers) which is only what 10 or 20g more than Record, a great deal.

Pete Biggs said:

Donald Gillies said:

I think that there is a major difference between Veloce and Centaur. Veloce is part of the low-
end componentry line, and Centaur is part of the high end stuff,

Quoted message said:

No it isn't.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

which means that the more durable parts (Chorus and Record) should interface and provide spares
for your Centaur stuff.

Quoted message said:

It doesn't work like that. There is no distinct point where the "low end" ends and the "high end"
starts and Centaur straddles both.

Ok, I am admittedly not an expert in this, but I thought that with today's campy parts the model
lines shift every 3 years or so.

Thus, Record becomes Chorus Chorus becomes Centaur Centaur becomes Veloce Veloce becomes Mirage
Mirage becomes an orphan ( meaning factory spares start getting harder to find).

Therefore, if you pay the extra $$$ for Centaur, chances are very good that your parts will have
spares available for roughly 3 extra years. This is a good thing, and I think that this is part of
the value and cost of buying the higher-end componentry - a longer support period.

I agree with others here that the differences between all levels of the campy grouppos are smaller
now than at anytime in history, as far as I am aware.

- Don Gillies San Diego, CA

Donald Gillies said:

Ok, I am admittedly not an expert in this, but I thought that with today's campy parts the model
lines shift every 3 years or so.

Thus, Record becomes Chorus Chorus becomes Centaur Centaur becomes Veloce Veloce becomes Mirage
Mirage becomes an orphan ( meaning factory spares start getting harder to find).

Therefore, if you pay the extra $$$ for Centaur, chances are very good that your parts will have
spares available for roughly 3 extra years.

That assumes Veloce requires different spares.......

Quoted message said:

This is a good thing, and I think that this is part of the value and cost of buying the higher-end
componentry - a longer support period.

That's a fair generalisation but it doesn't apply in this particular case. However, I agree that it
makes sense to get the highest group comfortably affordable (or a careful mixture) for the sake of
getting best function or weight possible if nothing else.

Quoted message said:

I agree with others here that the differences between all levels of the campy grouppos are smaller
now than at anytime in history, as far as I am aware.

Indeed the differences are so small that, except for hubs, Centaur spare parts also fit Veloce
perfectly (in fact some are the exact same parts) - so Centaur should not be favoured purely for
this reason.

I reckon there are only two major differences within the whole of the current Campagnolo componentry
that should affect the "future-proofing" decision: 9-speed versus 10-speed, and new-style hubs
versus old/cartridge type. The rest is not an issue.

Spare parts info: www.campagnolo.com/techinfo.php?did=c

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

Donald Gillies wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ok, I am admittedly not an expert in this, but I thought that with today's campy parts the model
lines shift every 3 years or so.

Thus, Record becomes Chorus Chorus becomes Centaur Centaur becomes Veloce Veloce becomes Mirage
Mirage becomes an orphan ( meaning factory spares start getting harder to find).

Therefore, if you pay the extra $$$ for Centaur, chances are very good that your parts will have
spares available for roughly 3 extra years.

Quoted message said:

That assumes Veloce requires different spares.......

If campy is doing things right, parts that wear excessively will change less frequently and remain
in supply longer than parts that don't wear or break easily.

And clearly, e.g. all derailleurs share some parts, such as pulley wheel bolts, or perhaps upper
pivot bolts (although record now uses titanium), or springs and cable clamps.

The low end parts contain more metal to encourage consumers to impose a weight tax. This might
also enable easier and lower cost manufacturing. The low-end parts are often made with, e.g.
inferior or no bushings, and this just won't wear as long, and so they wear out quicker and then
there are no spares.

IMHO, if you're going to buy a grouppo with no spares, you might as well go whole hog and get
ShimaNO. I have an ultegra bike and it has served its purpose, giving me my first experiences with
brifters. However, Unlike my Campagnolo bikes, I feel no romantic attraction to this bike - I love
my Ultegra bike just as much as any foot stool that I have ever owned.

- Don Gillies San Diego, CA

You think wrong. Have a look at the parts numbers in the online Campagnolo spares catalogue. Centaur
shares parts with Chrous and Record. Veloce does not.

Nick

"Paul Kopit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think that the Centaur and Veloce are the same. The Centaur has a hole/loop in the shift paddle.

Donald Gillies said:

If campy is doing things right, parts that wear excessively will change less frequently and remain
in supply longer than parts that don't wear or break easily.

The low end parts contain more metal to encourage consumers to impose a weight tax. This might
also enable easier and lower cost manufacturing.

That doesn't make it less durable or incompatible with higher parts.

Quoted message said:

The low-end parts are often made with, e.g. inferior or no bushings, and this just won't wear as
long, and so they wear out quicker and then there are no spares.

Once again your generalisations do not apply in this case. Centaur has the same bushings and doesn't
have bearings where Veloce has bushings or vice versa. Apart from the hubs & chainrings (arguably),
Centaur is not more durable than Veloce. It is more expensive because some components are lighter
(eg. sprockets with aluminium carriers and derailleurs with aluminium cage back plates) and some
have tiny functional and cosmetic enhancements like nicer adjusters and pads on the brakes or holes
in the Ergo downshift levers. Apart from the hubs again, the differences really are as small as
that. Chorus is the group with ball bearings in Ergos and brakes - but you pay a high price for it.
This thread is specifically about Veloce v Centaur.

Quoted message said:

IMHO, if you're going to buy a grouppo with no spares, you might as well go whole hog and get
ShimaNO.

Veloce does have spares and will have even if Veloce disappears.

~PB

bfd said:

Well what I've done based on the discussion in this thread is order a Veloce 10 speed gruppo and
upgrade the hubs alone to Centaur. 32 hole.

Indeed the parts list shows the Centaur hub share much with Record.

I've also ordered Ambrosio Excellence Rims and will have the wheels built up at the Marinoni site at
LaChine Quebec.

Hope this works.

Thanks to those that took a moment to give their opinions and supporting facts