Best way to clean chain & rear cogs?

"Dennis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Subject says it really. Den

I find WD40 and a nice oily cloth (not necessarily at the beginning, but certainly by the end
;-)...worked thus far, then wack on the GT85, presto!!

On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 20:20:09 GMT, "Dennis" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Chain: The Sheldon Shake sheldonbrown.comchains.htmlOpen ↗

Block / cassette: use a scraper-outer to get the crud off, take a decent bit of rag, fold in half,
add degreaser to the cloth and hold it level between the cogs; move cloth fore-and-aft and the cogs
will clean and spin on alternate movements. Works for me.

And, my £0.02, NEVER let WD40 anywhere near your drivetrain, it is singularly effective at washing
out grease.

Guy
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Chain: Remove and soak 'n' shake in a jar of white spirit. Repeat if really filthy. Using a
Powerlink* makes chain easy to remove & fit. Afterwards, let crud settle to bottom of jar so spirit
can be reused.
* see www.sram.com

If don't want to do that, a clamp-on chain cleaner works quite well, although a bit
splashy & fiddly.

Just wiping the outside of chain (with or without chemicals) is useless, and just hosing/flushing
with water or degreaser is not good enough. Oiling a dirty chain is (probably) worse than useless as
it flushes grit from the outside into the innards.

Cogs: As Guy's method, and for Campag Mirage/Veloce: occasionally dissasemble the whole thing and
clean the loose sprockets with a rag & WD40 (they're not pinned together like $himaNO's).

You can do all this lots of other ways but you did ask for the best :-)

Chain lube: No perfect answer - use whatever /you/ like. Personally, I'm finding Castrol/Halfords
Chain Wax is a good compromise between oil or spray grease (which lubes & lasts well but is messy)
and hard dry wax products (which are ridiculously expensive and don't stay working long). It's a
reasonably priced medium-soft waxy stuff that keeps chain relatively clean (compared to oil and most
common lubes). Note. Takes an hour or two to fully set. Halfords own brand seems to be exactly the
same stuff as Castrol's.

~PB

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

<snip> Cogs: As Guy's method, and for Campag Mirage/Veloce: occasionally dissasemble the whole
thing and clean the loose sprockets with a rag & WD40 (they're not pinned together like
$himaNO's). <snip>

~PB

Pete The 9 Speed shimano blocks have the top half of the cogs in two "clusters" but the rest of the
cogs are loose as with Campag. The 8 speed are just held together with three bolts which have small
allen key heads. A couple of seconds and you have 8 individual cogs to clean. This is how I and
everyone I know do it. All the best.

Stan Cox

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Chain lube: No perfect answer - use whatever /you/ like.

It seems basically to come down to a choice between oil and wax. Oil is a better lubricant and is
better in the wet but it is also much dirtier.

Quoted message said:

Personally, I'm finding Castrol/Halfords Chain Wax is a good compromise between oil or spray
grease and hard dry wax.

In an aerosol spray? I tried this stuff once on the recommendation of someone I respect. I squirted
it all over a thoroughly cleaned chain but the first ride I made with it was very wet and it seemed
to be all gone after about 30 miles. When I got home I dried the chain very thoroughly with rags,
put more spray wax on and wiped off the surplus. A couple of hours later I put yet more on, again
wiping off the surplus. The next morning my chain was covered in rust. I now use chain saw oil -
very effective, very cheap, but unfortunately very dirty.

--
Dave...

Pete Biggs said:

Chain: Remove and soak 'n' shake in a jar of white spirit. Repeat if really filthy. Using a
Powerlink* makes chain easy to remove & fit. Afterwards, let crud settle to bottom of jar so
spirit can be reused.
* see www.sram.com

Bit of an expensive option if you've gone down the campag 10-speed route and are using their
HD-L chain.

OK I guess I could use a Wipperman chain. But I've bought the fancy campag chain tool now!

Cheers,

Andy

"Stan Cox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

The 9 Speed shimano blocks have the top half of the cogs in two "clusters" but the rest of the
cogs are loose as with Campag. The 8 speed are just held together with three bolts which have
small allen key heads. A couple of seconds and you have 8 individual cogs to clean. This is how I
and everyone I know do it. All the best.

I do that once a year, in Spring when the whole bike gets its annual overhaul. In between times the
folded-over rag is fine - but it probably depends on where you ride, and what lubricant you use. We
(the Chapman family cycle club, 15 wheels, 10 saddles, 12 chains, 4 cassettes, 3 blocks) use wax
lubes and ride almost exclusively on the road, so the sprockets don't get very dirty. An offroad
bike with oil-based lube is likely to require the more thorough method more often, I guess.

Guy

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <snip>

Quoted message said:

And, my £0.02, NEVER let WD40 anywhere near your drivetrain, it is singularly effective at washing
out grease.

Guy

.....and all the dust particles etc. that the grease is holding lovingly onto your cherished chain
etc ?... I haven't had any problem with this method Guy, but then I always apply WD40, wipe off with
cloth until nice shiny chain, then apply GT85. Better than nothing, I suppose ?..possibly..? Dave.

Dave Kahn said:

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Personally, I'm finding Castrol/Halfords Chain Wax is a good compromise between oil or spray
grease and hard dry wax.

In an aerosol spray?

Yes.

Quoted message said:

I tried this stuff once on the recommendation of someone I respect. I squirted it all over a
thoroughly cleaned chain but the first ride I made with it was very wet and it seemed to be all
gone after about 30 miles.

Doesn't matter if there appears to be none left on outside. Any squeaking, though, would indicate
that there's not enough in the innards.

I wouldn't recommend the product for frequent wet use or long rides in heavy rain but I have found
it survives more wet weather than Kyrtech does, for example. So maybe not so great for a commuter or
tourer, but good for best road bike or general summer use, imo.

It helps to make sure chain is as clean & dry* as possible before application, use liberally then
wipe off excess before it sets, and to leave at least an hour before riding it.

* Without any remains of white spirit, WD40 or anything.

~PB

Stan Cox said:

The 9 Speed shimano blocks have the top half of the cogs in two "clusters" but the rest of the
cogs are loose as with Campag. The 8 speed are just held together with three bolts which have
small allen key heads. A couple of seconds and you have 8 individual cogs to clean. This is how I
and everyone I know do it. All the best.

Thanks for the info. I understand some cassettes use rivets (instead of ak bolts) which would need
their heads filed off or something to remove.

~PB

Dave said:

Quoted message said:

And, my £0.02, NEVER let WD40 anywhere near your drivetrain, it is singularly effective at
washing out grease.

Quoted message said:

.....and all the dust particles etc. that the grease is holding lovingly onto your cherished
chain etc ?...

Less of a problem than the fact that it will get iself into the wheel bearings and bottom bracket,
and wash the grease out of them. It is specifically designed to penetrate, and is heavily laden with
solvents. The mist of spray which you get, even with the little red tube, makes it very unlikely
that you will manage to adequately clean a cassette or rear mech without endangering your bearings,
unless you first remove the wheel and the cassette - at which point you might as well use citrus
degreaser anyway :-)

Guy
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Pete Biggs said:

I wouldn't recommend the product for frequent wet use or long rides in heavy rain but I have found
it survives more wet weather than Kyrtech does, for example. So maybe not so great for a commuter
or tourer, but good for best road bike or general summer use, imo.

I'm a cycle commuter, winter and summer, rain or shine, and I use wax all year round. In winter it
sheds the grit as it washes off, which is a Good Thing. I have to apply a couple of drops on the
return idler on the 'bent every two to three days, but that is scarcely a big deal, and the short
period I ran the triplet with oil rather than wax was a nightmare of black greasy marks on socks.
Never again :-/

Guy
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Just zis Guy said:

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't recommend the product for frequent wet use or long rides in heavy rain but I have
found it survives more wet weather than Kyrtech does, for example. So maybe not so great for a
commuter or tourer, but good for best road bike or general summer use, imo.

The above was specifically about Castrol/Halfords Chain Wax and Finish Line Krytech (and I was being
on the cautious side).

Quoted message said:

I'm a cycle commuter, winter and summer, rain or shine, and I use wax all year round. In winter it
sheds the grit as it washes off, which is a Good Thing.

That's grit on the outside, isn't it? What about grit right in the innards? And does the chain
squeak after 10 miles in the rain? If so, that means there's virtually no lube left (or dirt, for
that matter) so you /might/ be just as well off using no lube at all! (?)

Quoted message said:

I have to apply a couple of drops on the return idler on the 'bent every two to three days, but
that is scarcely a big deal,

There's bound to still be _some_ dirt/grit on the outside and I would worry that simply adding
more lube would flush that into the rollers, etc. I try to either clean thoroughly then re-lube,
or do nothing.

How much do you spend on WL per year? And can you recommend anywhere to buy it from?

When using £££Krytech (which is similar to White Lightening, I understand), I found I needed to use
a /lot/ of it very frequently. A few drops was not good enough.

Also, I remember you reporting that your last chain didn't last as long as usual after using WL.
Although the theory that grit causes most of the wear seems reasonable to me perhaps loads of sheer
lubrication (which can only be got from oil, really) is needed afterall to make chains last.
Although, like you, I find oil horribly messy. We can't win :-(

~PB

Just zis Guy said:

Less of a problem than the fact that it will get iself into the wheel bearings and bottom bracket,
and wash the grease out of them. It is specifically designed to penetrate, and is heavily laden
with solvents. The mist of spray which you get, even with the little red tube, makes it very
unlikely that you will manage to adequately clean a cassette or rear mech without endangering your
bearings, unless you first remove the wheel and the cassette - at which point you might as well
use citrus degreaser anyway :-)

I find surrounding the mechs with a large rag and using the can up-close to them is adequate to
protect bearings.

I reckon it would take quite a lot of solvent to significantly degrease bearings so it's probably
only the people who are unaware of the dangers or even think WD40/GT85 is supposed to be sprayed
into bearings that are spoiling their equipment like this.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

Also, I remember you reporting that your last chain didn't last as long as usual after using WL.
Although the theory that grit causes most of the wear seems reasonable to me perhaps loads of
sheer lubrication (which can only be got from oil, really) is needed afterall to make chains last.
Although, like you, I find oil horribly messy. We can't win :-(

I think I've found a way to win. I use SRAM chains with powerlink "master links", which makes
removing the chain very easy. I clean the chain by immersing it in mineral spirits (your "white
spirits", aka "paint thinner"😉 then wash in the same detergent solution as I'm using to wash the
rest of the bike, and rinse with clear water.

I too use the "two coffee can, let the spirits settle" technique described earlier in this thread;
since I have a bunch of drip coffee filters and don't use that type of pot, I strain the remainder
through a coffee filter rather than just discarding the really dirty remainder. A little spirit goes
a long way, here.

After the chain dries, I lubricate it with Boeshield T-9. This stuff was originally developed to
protect against corrosion in aircraft and boats. It's got a mineral spirit base (so it penetrates
very well, and you can use it on the road when thoroughly washing the chain's simply not an option)
and dries leaving a waxy coating (that unlike "parrafin", doesn't chip or flake right off) that
keeps the chain running quiet and clean for a long time. The company says it "lubricates and
protects for 150 to 200 miles per application".

Unlike "hot wax" you can ride through many hours of heavy rain and not have the chain squeak, and
it's far less messy than oil. It takes a special technique to put it on (you don't just slather it
on and then go riding; you've got to let it dry overnight) but that happens to match exactly the way
I normally maintain the chain, so it's no problem for me.

I've tried a lot of things over the years, but this stuff is far and away the best.

Steve Palincsar wrote: .........

Quoted message said:

After the chain dries, I lubricate it with Boeshield T-9. This stuff was originally developed to
protect against corrosion in aircraft and boats. It's got a mineral spirit base (so it penetrates
very well, and you can use it on the road when thoroughly washing the chain's simply not an
option) and dries leaving a waxy coating (that unlike "parrafin", doesn't chip or flake right off)
that keeps the chain running quiet and clean for a long time. The company says it "lubricates and
protects for 150 to 200 miles per application".

Unlike "hot wax" you can ride through many hours of heavy rain and not have the chain squeak, and
it's far less messy than oil. It takes a special technique to put it on (you don't just slather it
on and then go riding; you've got to let it dry overnight) but that happens to match exactly the
way I normally maintain the chain, so it's no problem for me.

I've tried a lot of things over the years, but this stuff is far and away the best.

I might give it a go if I can find it for a reasonable price in the UK - if it's much different from
the Halfords/Castrol wax I'm using at the moment. If it's very expensive, however, I'd be inclined
to buy a new chain every month or two instead!

Is T-9 a hard or soft wax? Dry? (The Castrol stuff is medium-soft and slightly sticky but still
cleaner than oil.).

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

I might give it a go if I can find it for a reasonable price in the UK - if it's much different
from the Halfords/Castrol wax I'm using at the moment. If it's very expensive, however, I'd be
inclined to buy a new chain every month or two instead!

Is T-9 a hard or soft wax? Dry? (The Castrol stuff is medium-soft and slightly sticky but still
cleaner than oil.).

I use Boeshield but I'm pretty sure its not available in the UK - I stock up when I'm in the US. As
Steve says it works well. I find with all the waxes and particularly Boeshield that its not a good
last minute lubricant. If you apply shortly before a ride it doesn't last. It needs to be at least
the day before and then it works well.

Tony

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Pete Biggs said:

That's grit on the outside, isn't it? What about grit right in the innards?

None perceptible; chain life seems adequate (I shredded one when a return idler went haywire, but
the rest seem to have lasted the required 12 months / 4,000 miles OK).

Quoted message said:

And does the chain squeak after 10 miles in the rain? >

No, because...

Quoted message said:

If so, that means there's virtually no lube left (or dirt, for that matter) so you /might/ be just
as well off using no lube at all! (?)

Quite. If it did that I'd be using something else :-)

To be fair after a hard ride in really disgusting wether I usually top up the lube after the bike's
dried out anyway, just out of kindness.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have to apply a couple of drops on the return idler on the 'bent every two to three days, but
that is scarcely a big deal,

Quoted message said:

There's bound to still be _some_ dirt/grit on the outside and I would worry that simply adding more
lube would flush that into the rollers, etc.

As I understand it wax is /supposed/ to be topped up, one way it keeps the chain clean is by
sticking to crud particles and dropping off taking said crud with them. It certainly takes a very
long time (in the order of several months) to accumulate enough dirt on the chain to warrant
cleaning, and less washes out at that point than I used to get in a fornight when using Finish Line.

Quoted message said:

How much do you spend on WL per year?

Not sure - a bottle lasts about two to three months, longer in winter, less in summer (more bikes
and more miles in summer). And that's applying it inna Henry Cooper stylee...

Quoted message said:

And can you recommend anywhere to buy it from?

I just get it from the LBS. I suppose I should buy gallon tins from the cyclists' equivalent of
Makro, but I never get round to it.

Guy
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Steve Palincsar said:

I too use the "two coffee can, let the spirits settle" technique described earlier in this thread;

Reminds me of when I used to maintain the family fleet of Minis. I had two ten-gallon drums of
paraffin on the go and a number of gallon cans of varying dirtyness, graded from "first wash" to
"final clean." The last act was to rinse the part with a garden spary full of clean paraffin, with
the runoff going into the final clean can.

One day I dismantled a gearbox into its component parts and laid them out on newspaper in order of
disassembly. I came into the workshop the next evening to find that Dad had helpfully put them all
in the paraffin bath for me "to soak." All those tiny little needle bearings, springs, ball
bearings, funny shaped bits...

Guy
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