Best time to train to help weight loss am or pm

[Felt_Rider]

This is how today looks like.
4am Train (intervals) Used Power Bar Endurance
6:30 Mueslli and Tea
9:00 Yoghurt and Apple & bannana
12:00 1 x Grilled Chick Breast and Salad. 500ml Water
15:00 Whole wheat sandwhich and Jam. 500ml Water
16:00 Meal Replacement

Get and run 40min
Dinner Dont know yet Most Probely Past (Last night was Stir Fry)
Protien Shake before bed.
How does that sound.
I dont drink much "energy drinks" way to expensive. Still got meal replacement from my last Sponsor so I'm using them.

I'm not sure of your goals, but your diet looks clean enough if not a bit on the light side with the carb & protein count. What catches my eye is that you are at least spacing out meals in intervals. To me that is one of the keys to having a structured program. What goes in the mix will vary for each of us as individuals and our specific goals. So if your current gram count works for you that is great.

Protein count for moderate to intense training can range from 1 to 1.8 grams of protein per pound of body mass, but if you are able to to achieve your goals on your present count that is a cool deal.

IMO- Keeping a training diary is the best way to regulate macro nutrients.
By keeping a diary you will begin to understand how to regulate up and down to achieve your goals. I went through a period of years of keeping a diary and weighed my food portions in order to fine tune my requirements. Now I can pretty much tell by just a guess how much are in the portions.

 

[ric_stern/RST]

I'm not sure of your goals, but your diet looks clean enough if not a bit on the light side with the carb & protein count. What catches my eye is that you are at least spacing out meals in intervals. To me that is one of the keys to having a structured program. What goes in the mix will vary for each of us as individuals and our specific goals. So if your current gram count works for you that is great.

difficult to say for sure as there's no measure, but it definitely looks light for CHO. with 2 hrs training a day you likely need 7 g/kg body mass per day of carbs.

Protein count for moderate to intense training can range from 1 to 1.8 grams of protein per pound of body mass, but if you are able to to achieve your goals on your present count that is a cool deal.

this is way above the recommendation for protein. Current guidelines are ~ 1.2 to ~ 1.6 g of protein per *kg* body mass per day. The upper limit for extreme endurance exercise (e.g., the TdF) is ~ 2.0 g/kg body mass per day

ric

 

[Felt_Rider]

this is way above the recommendation for protein. Current guidelines are ~ 1.2 to ~ 1.6 g of protein per *kg* body mass per day. The upper limit for extreme endurance exercise (e.g., the TdF) is ~ 2.0 g/kg body mass per day

ric

Agree on the count I gave is questionable.

I tend to go to the higher side as noted in my personal daily example.

I have been experimenting with lower protein gram counts to see if my recovery rate will maintain. So far I have found that I can maintain with slightly lower numbers so I am slowly changing my stance, but old habits are hard to let go.

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Agree on the count I gave is questionable.

I tend to go to the higher side as noted in my personal daily example.

I have been experimenting with lower protein gram counts to see if my recovery rate will maintain. So far I have found that I can maintain with slightly lower numbers so I am slowly changing my stance, but old habits are hard to let go.

recovery is more related to carbohydrate intake...

 

[Felt_Rider]

recovery is more related to carbohydrate intake...

Oops!!

It's a bit hard to juggle writing comments and engineer/design a subdivision at the same time. So I will refrain from further suggestions until I can think more clearly before I write again.

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Oops!!

It's a bit hard to juggle writing comments and engineer/design a subdivision at the same time. So I will refrain from further suggestions until I can think more clearly before I write again.

nowt wrong with your comments, they're all good. i was just trying to clear up an often cited and incorrect "fact".

please continue to post

ric

 

[Jarery]

I was in very similar position as the original poster.

I drive for 45 min to work. Work 8-1/2 hour day. Drive home takes 45-60 min.
Get dressed for ride, ride for 2 hours, about 50k distance. Get home, shower, cook, and bingo, its like 8:30-9:00. My metabolism is finally worked up, my stomach is full, but i only have an hour or 2 before bed.

I also cannot get up at 4:00 in order to get in 2 hours ride and then get home, shower, and make it to work.

Solution : I now ride to work. Takes me 60-70 min each way (18 miles each leg). Which means i only need to wake up 30 min earlier than before, i dont buy gas, and my metabolism is cranked up from sunup to sundown.

I did have to buy panniers, and some new gear like booties, etc. But I honestly think ive found the best solution, and the time is almost free time, since i used to commute for 90 min by car, the 120 by bike isnt that bad.

 

[Felt_Rider]

I thought some of the following links are relative and the last link states the same numbers on the protein upper end requirements that I stated. However, the 1.8 number that I stated was not from this particular article as it was from research years ago in another journal. I have seen 1.6, 1.7 & 1.8 in studies, but now in my ancient years am not really convinced that the upper end is needed.

At one time I was using 2 gr/lb in my competitive days, but now I am consuming less than 1.4 gr/lb and have increased carbohydrates for what Ric has stated numerous times which is recovery. Carbohydrates helping spare muscle protein during training.

The following link is a study for a CHO-PRO drink combination during training events. Thought these were interesting.

http://faculty.css.edu/tboone2/asep/Niles1Col.doc

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9841962&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11023001&dopt=Abstract

 

[ric_stern/RST]

I thought some of the following links are relative and the last link states the same numbers on the protein upper end requirements that I stated. However, the 1.8 number that I stated was not from this particular article as it was from research years ago in another journal. I have seen 1.6, 1.7 & 1.8 in studies, but now in my ancient years am not really convinced that the upper end is needed.

It appears you've either made a typo or an error (or it's too early for my brain to work properly!!). You stated that an upper end of 1.8 g per *lb* of body mass (actually that would be weight), whereas the papers you've cited show an upper limit of 1.8 g per *kg* body mass - which would be less than half what you're suggesting.

Ric

 

[Felt_Rider]

It appears you've either made a typo or an error (or it's too early for my brain to work properly!!). You stated that an upper end of 1.8 g per *lb* of body mass (actually that would be weight), whereas the papers you've cited show an upper limit of 1.8 g per *kg* body mass - which would be less than half what you're suggesting.

Ric

Yes, kg instead of lbs. Again yesterday was a bad for me to be posting.
We Americans seem to have a problem thinking in metric weights.

Thinking in lbs. from a Rice University study had the rates like this:

Sedentary adult 0.4
Active adult 0.4-0.6
Growing athlete 0.6-0.9
Adult building muscle mass 0.6-0.9


There are a lot of confusing reports out there.
In the bodybuilding community the rule is 1 gram per 1 pound of bodyweight.
The following link discusses the difference between the two points of view.

http://www.brinkzone.com/protein.html

However, we have to look at the motivation behind these reports. I for one was sold on it years ago when I first started bodybuilding and I picked up my first Flex or Muscle & Fitness magazine. The articles in these magazine would be written by a Phd and have references. However, these magazines are not interested in the truth. The purpose of the magazine is a marketing tool for supplement companies. So it is there subliminal purpose to increase the rule to 1 gram per 1 pound of bodyweight and that in turn would increase sales of their products.

These magazines are still pushing these high numbers and I have to admit that during my competitive years I used a very high amount of protein daily and had very good success without adverse effects and yet it may have been possible to still compete successfully with a lower amount of protein and that would have been more cost effective from a financial stand point.

It is just in the last few years that I started to lower my daily protein intake only because it was hard to move away from something that I thought was a successful plan. Qualifying for the NPC Nationals seemed like success to me and I was attributing the high protein intake as part of the success. As well as leading others to wins in competition in the same manner. So it has been hard to break away from the "bodybuilding rule" of protein intake.

Now I am trying to see this from a different point in that cyclist do not need extra body mass and being lean and light can be the advantage. (Not my goal, but understand it as an on looker) In summary I am in agreement with your sentiments and share the same viewpoints for the most part.

I enjoyed the discussion and I hope that my part was not confusing to the community.

 

[ric_stern/RST]

There are a lot of confusing reports out there.
In the bodybuilding community the rule is 1 gram per 1 pound of bodyweight.
The following link discusses the difference between the two points of view.

http://www.brinkzone.com/protein.html

I enjoyed the discussion and I hope that my part was not confusing to the community.

Your discussion was fine. There's lots of confusing stuff around about sports nutrition.

the bodybuilding rule above is only *slightly* above the upper recommended amount of protein for intense endurance exercise (e.g., racing a Grand Tour) and protein requirements for these events is higher than that recommended for bodybuilding.

The upper limit can be met through a normal mixed diet without the addition of (e.g.) protein supplements. A normal mixed diet, is where you eat a range of foods that isn't 'abnormal' such as e.g., bags of sugar or you're a fruitarian. Vegetarians can usually meet these requirements too especially if they are an ovo or lacto or an ovo-lacto vegetarian (as i am*). Vegans too, but they may need to think about things. If you are on a weight loss programme you may not be meeting the protein requirement.

*Previously, when at uni (in my first year), i had been worried due to various media or family viewpoints that i perhaps wasn't eating sufficient protein. I had been a veggie for 6 or 7 years at that point. I ran a dietary analysis and discovered that i was actually consuming protein at the upper end of the scale! Most people, consume way too much protein.

Ric

 

[Doctor Morbius]

Most people, consume way too much protein.

Most people in Western cultures anyway. I totally agree.

Having spent many years around bodybuilders and powerlifters I know for a fact that most have bought into the "more the merrier" spiel that has been sold to them by the supplement companies and Joe Weider in order to enhance corporate profits. Even if a weight lifter is on "the juice" their protein requirements don't come near the levels often consumed.

I don't think people realize how difficult it is for the body to break down these extra proteins and excrete them from the system. From an overall health and longevity viewpoint it can be devastating. And although a younger person may not have any "immediate" problems with it, it will catch up with a person after years of abuse just as alcoholism and excessive sugar consumption. I watched my Dad die from renal failure 2 years ago this month. It's not a pretty sight. And dialysis just makes a person wish they were already dead.

 

[Felt_Rider]

The upper limit can be met through a normal mixed diet without the addition of (e.g.) protein supplements. A normal mixed diet, is where you eat a range of foods that isn't 'abnormal' such as e.g., bags of sugar or you're a fruitarian. Vegetarians can usually meet these requirements too especially if they are an ovo or lacto or an ovo-lacto vegetarian (as i am*). Vegans too, but they may need to think about things. If you are on a weight loss programme you may not be meeting the protein requirement.

*Previously, when at uni (in my first year), i had been worried due to various media or family viewpoints that i perhaps wasn't eating sufficient protein. I had been a veggie for 6 or 7 years at that point. I ran a dietary analysis and discovered that i was actually consuming protein at the upper end of the scale! Most people, consume way too much protein.

Ric

Being a veggie is something I admire. I actually considered it a few times because of the saturated fat and because of cost of meat these days. I thought about cutting meat and just using whey & cassienate protein to make up the difference. My wife and I eat a lot of natural grains and steam veggies everyday it seems. However, it like being an alcoholic I cannot stay away from eating meat more than a few days and then I start freaking out.

I often wondered about the bioavailabilty and protein synthesis from beans, rice, grains and other vegetarian sources. The actual bv rating for many meats is actually not that great in comparison to whey or cassienate.

Do you have to eat a certain combination together to get a more complete amino profile. Like combining beans, rice and milk for each meal? Or is that too much thinking and unnecessary to be that stressed over it?

I read an article today as I was looking for bv ratings of food group proteins about carnivore humans have a psychological barrier in giving up meat because they enjoy eating meat and not for any other reason. I guess that would be me, but I do admire those who do live the vegetarian lifestyle. Mainly because I am fanatic about personal finances and meat costs is a huge bill. My wife is actually eating less meat these days and eating more soy products that are made to mimic the taste and texture of meat.