Best Software for Planning Rides

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

What I'd like is software app that will provide me street maps, then let
me select a route -- the actual streets -- and then give me the miles on
each segment and the total miles for that route.

There are a bunch of programs that let you plan car driving routes. I
haven't found one that's real good for cycling, though. Some common
problems:

1. They only support car routes. You cannot generate a route that
includes bike paths, dirt roads, cut-throughs, etc. Only a few of the
programs allow you to draw your own roads.

2. Most of the programs do not show you where are the hills, high traffic
areas, water stops, etc. that are of interest to cyclists.

3. Most programs have an automatic routing feature, but it usually puts
you on freeways that are off-limits to bikes.

4. One program that comes close to being useful to bicyclists is DeLorme
TopoUSA. Unfortunately, the roads database is very out-of-date. Also, the
cumulative elevation feature is very inaccurate.

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've recently discovered that very near my house in upstate SC (Mauldin)

are

Quoted message said:

some nice country roads that offer great early am riding (maybe later,

too,

Quoted message said:

but I have to get to these places). With a map book and driving around,
I've found a couple of routes that will take me on 30 and 40+ mile rides.
That got me to thinking that some of these mapping / route / trip planning
software program might be useful for planning a route, initially.
Naturally, I'd drive the route once to see what it presents in terms of
hills, scenery, safety, etc.

What I'd like is software app that will provide me street maps, then let

me

Quoted message said:

select a route -- the actual streets -- and then give me the miles on each
segment and the total miles for that route. Then I'd like to be able to
make tweaks to it to adjust the miles. A nice printout of the entire

route

Quoted message said:

with miles on each segment would be nice too, go give to people who may

ride

Quoted message said:

with me. Obviously, I'd like to store these so I can pick among them
depending on time available, who's riding with me, etc.

Does anyone know if one of the available software programs would meet my
needs? Thanks.

I use DeLorme Street Atlas and Microsoft Streets and Trips all the time to
plan bike rides. They have different limitations, but if you realize
they're intended for drivers and accept that, you can make either of them
work for you. My versions are quite old on both. DeLorme allows a variety
of printing options so that, when you get a route planned out, it's easier
to print yourself a map. Streets & Trips has an easier route measuring
feature, but it's severely limited in terms of being able to print. One of
your 40 mile trips might take four pages to print out.

You should hook up with either the Greenville Spinners or the Freewheelers
of Spartanburg to learn routes in your area. Those are both big clubs with
lots of organized rides and events.

Upstate, SC has the finest cycling on the planet ... bar none (excepting for
the many lousy tar and gravel roads and all the bubbas in pickups).

Bob C.
Calhoun Falls, SC (and formerly from Anderson)

I picked up a copy of microsoft steets & trips for about $15 (after rebate).
It seems to have a fairly up to date road list, lets me force a route by
dropping
intermediate points in, and draws/prints pretty good looking maps.

Also, it includes pocket maps to let you download/view your maps on a
pocket PC, and will show your position on it if you have a GPS.

I first tried a Rand McNally one that had a more CDs in it's database, but
found it really inaccurate and didn't like the maps it made. I returned it
and
got the S&T instead.

-Kent-

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've recently discovered that very near my house in upstate SC (Mauldin)

are

Quoted message said:

some nice country roads that offer great early am riding (maybe later,

too,

Quoted message said:

but I have to get to these places). With a map book and driving around,
I've found a couple of routes that will take me on 30 and 40+ mile rides.
That got me to thinking that some of these mapping / route / trip planning
software program might be useful for planning a route, initially.
Naturally, I'd drive the route once to see what it presents in terms of
hills, scenery, safety, etc.

What I'd like is software app that will provide me street maps, then let

me

Quoted message said:

select a route -- the actual streets -- and then give me the miles on each
segment and the total miles for that route. Then I'd like to be able to
make tweaks to it to adjust the miles. A nice printout of the entire

route

Quoted message said:

with miles on each segment would be nice too, go give to people who may

ride

Quoted message said:

with me. Obviously, I'd like to store these so I can pick among them
depending on time available, who's riding with me, etc.

Does anyone know if one of the available software programs would meet my
needs? Thanks.

Roger Zoul said:

What I'd like is software app that will provide me street maps, then let me
select a route -- the actual streets -- and then give me the miles on each
segment and the total miles for that route. Then I'd like to be able to
make tweaks to it to adjust the miles. A nice printout of the entire route
with miles on each segment would be nice too, go give to people who may ride
with me. Obviously, I'd like to store these so I can pick among them
depending on time available, who's riding with me, etc.

With some creative techniques, Microsoft Streets & Trips works great
for this. You set the route preferences so that small roads are
faster and highways slow; and then, you insert stops wherever you
want the route to take a different road.

Quoted message said:

Does anyone know if one of the available software programs would meet my
needs? Thanks.

A recent discovery: The software on my new Garmin Ique 3600
(integrated PDA and GPS with mapping software) will route for
bicycles. There's a setting for it.
--
Rick Onanian

Roger Zoul said:

I've recently discovered that very near my house in upstate SC (Mauldin) are
some nice country roads that offer great early am riding (maybe later, too,
but I have to get to these places). With a map book and driving around,
I've found a couple of routes that will take me on 30 and 40+ mile rides.
That got me to thinking that some of these mapping / route / trip planning
software program might be useful for planning a route, initially.
Naturally, I'd drive the route once to see what it presents in terms of
hills, scenery, safety, etc.

What I'd like is software app that will provide me street maps, then let me
select a route -- the actual streets -- and then give me the miles on each
segment and the total miles for that route. Then I'd like to be able to
make tweaks to it to adjust the miles. A nice printout of the entire route
with miles on each segment would be nice too, go give to people who may ride
with me. Obviously, I'd like to store these so I can pick among them
depending on time available, who's riding with me, etc.

Does anyone know if one of the available software programs would meet my
needs? Thanks.

I use DeLorme Street Atlas (2003). This does a pretty good job for me.

The 2004 version is out now, and supposedly includes Canada as well as
the US. Price is about $50.

The routing function lets you set areas or types of roads to avoid. You
also can set average speeds for different road types. As you develop
routes, you can set locations that the route must pass, and can set
individual stop points along the way as well.

They have a pretty good database of businesses, parks, and other items
of interest so you can find the neares ice cream shop for your midpoint.

They support GPS, and you can download the route as represented by all
of the intersections onto your GPS. I have a handlebar mount for my
Garmin eTrex.

Also, you can create routable segments where you know that a bikeable
trail exists, and the program will route you through it.

Delorme recently released Topo USA 5.0. This would handle the climbing
aspect as well, but I haven't used it so I'm not sure if the routing is
as good.

Roger Zoul said:

I've recently discovered that very near my house in upstate SC (Mauldin) are
some nice country roads that offer great early am riding (maybe later, too,
but I have to get to these places). With a map book and driving around,
I've found a couple of routes that will take me on 30 and 40+ mile rides.
That got me to thinking that some of these mapping / route / trip planning
software program might be useful for planning a route, initially.
Naturally, I'd drive the route once to see what it presents in terms of
hills, scenery, safety, etc.

What I'd like is software app that will provide me street maps, then let me
select a route -- the actual streets -- and then give me the miles on each
segment and the total miles for that route. Then I'd like to be able to
make tweaks to it to adjust the miles. A nice printout of the entire route
with miles on each segment would be nice too, go give to people who may ride
with me. Obviously, I'd like to store these so I can pick among them
depending on time available, who's riding with me, etc.

Does anyone know if one of the available software programs would meet my
needs? Thanks.

I use DeLorme Street Atlas (2003). This does a pretty good job for me.

The 2004 version is out now, and supposedly includes Canada as well as
the US. Price is about $50.

The routing function lets you set areas or types of roads to avoid. You
also can set average speeds for different road types. As you develop
routes, you can set locations that the route must pass, and can set
individual stop points along the way as well.

They have a pretty good database of businesses, parks, and other items
of interest so you can find the neares ice cream shop for your midpoint.

They support GPS, and you can download the route as represented by all
of the intersections onto your GPS. I have a handlebar mount for my
Garmin eTrex.

Also, you can create routable segments where you know that a bikeable
trail exists, and the program will route you through it.

Delorme recently released Topo USA 5.0. This would handle the climbing
aspect as well, but I haven't used it so I'm not sure if the routing is
as good.

Roger Zoul said:

I've recently discovered that very near my house in upstate SC (Mauldin) are
some nice country roads that offer great early am riding (maybe later, too,
but I have to get to these places). With a map book and driving around,
I've found a couple of routes that will take me on 30 and 40+ mile rides.
That got me to thinking that some of these mapping / route / trip planning
software program might be useful for planning a route, initially.
Naturally, I'd drive the route once to see what it presents in terms of
hills, scenery, safety, etc.

What I'd like is software app that will provide me street maps, then let me
select a route -- the actual streets -- and then give me the miles on each
segment and the total miles for that route. Then I'd like to be able to
make tweaks to it to adjust the miles. A nice printout of the entire route
with miles on each segment would be nice too, go give to people who may ride
with me. Obviously, I'd like to store these so I can pick among them
depending on time available, who's riding with me, etc.

Does anyone know if one of the available software programs would meet my
needs? Thanks.

I use DeLorme Street Atlas (2003). This does a pretty good job for me.

The 2004 version is out now, and supposedly includes Canada as well as
the US. Price is about $50.

The routing function lets you set areas or types of roads to avoid. You
also can set average speeds for different road types. As you develop
routes, you can set locations that the route must pass, and can set
individual stop points along the way as well.

They have a pretty good database of businesses, parks, and other items
of interest so you can find the neares ice cream shop for your midpoint.

They support GPS, and you can download the route as represented by all
of the intersections onto your GPS. I have a handlebar mount for my
Garmin eTrex.

Also, you can create routable segments where you know that a bikeable
trail exists, and the program will route you through it.

Delorme recently released Topo USA 5.0. This would handle the climbing
aspect as well, but I haven't used it so I'm not sure if the routing is
as good.

In 4. be sure you are using the current version of Topo. Pick a short road
segment and carefully calculate the altitude gains and losses. Then let us
know how many years Topo roads are out of date and how many feet of extra
altitude gain it accummulates.

Ken said:

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

What I'd like is software app that will provide me street maps, then let
me select a route -- the actual streets -- and then give me the miles on
each segment and the total miles for that route.

There are a bunch of programs that let you plan car driving routes. I
haven't found one that's real good for cycling, though. Some common
problems:

1. They only support car routes. You cannot generate a route that
includes bike paths, dirt roads, cut-throughs, etc. Only a few of the
programs allow you to draw your own roads.

2. Most of the programs do not show you where are the hills, high traffic
areas, water stops, etc. that are of interest to cyclists.

3. Most programs have an automatic routing feature, but it usually puts
you on freeways that are off-limits to bikes.

4. One program that comes close to being useful to bicyclists is DeLorme
TopoUSA. Unfortunately, the roads database is very out-of-date. Also, the
cumulative elevation feature is very inaccurate.

pete salomone <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

In 4. be sure you are using the current version of Topo. Pick a short
road segment and carefully calculate the altitude gains and losses. Then
let us know how many years Topo roads are out of date and how many feet
of extra altitude gain it accummulates.

I am using DeLorme Topo USA 4.0, which I believe is the most recent version.
On some steep, windy roads, it reports double the actual elevation gain. These
are roads that are continuously uphill, but the program invents non-existant
intermediate decents.

Regarding out-of-date roads, some highways that were built over 30 years ago do
not appear in the program. Also, lots of bogus roads do appear (may have
existed 50 years ago, but now are long gone or are closed to the public).

If DeLorme fixed the above 2 problems, I would recommend the program to
everyone. As it is, the program is expensive and not very reliable.

Quoted message said:

Does anyone know if one of the available software programs would meet my
needs? Thanks.

Hi
You can use CycleAtlas, a free, open-source application. Actually, it
is available a stable version (0.8) and a development version (1.0)

http://cycleatlas.sf.net

Quoted message said:

What I'd like is software app that will provide me street maps,

You must manually insert roads (no predefined map included). Use
version 1.0 for this operation (you can automatically download maps
from mapblast in order to help drawing road path , then use DEM
(digital elevation data) for compute road profiles.

Quoted message said:

then let me select a route -- the actual streets -- and then give me

the miles on each segment and the total miles for that route.

Works, both with version 0.8 and 1.0. With 0.8, you can also specify
your average speeds and see passing time.

Quoted message said:

Then I'd like to be able to make tweaks to it to adjust the miles.

Only in 0.8 version you can manually adjust road distance.

Quoted message said:

A nice printout of the entire route
with miles on each segment would be nice too, go give to people who may ride
with me.

Reporting works only in 0.8 version, and is not nice...

Quoted message said:

Obviously, I'd like to store these so I can pick among them
depending on time available, who's riding with me, etc.

Available in 0.8 version (ride archives)

Regards
Maner

Roger Zoul said:

What I'd like is software app that will provide me street maps, then let me
select a route -- the actual streets -- and then give me the miles on each
segment and the total miles for that route.

I like Delorme's Street Atlas in conjunction with Mario Nappa's
SAD2CUE spreadsheet.

Barry

psycholist wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::: I've recently discovered that very near my house in upstate SC
::: (Mauldin) are some nice country roads that offer great early am
::: riding (maybe later, too, but I have to get to these places). With
::: a map book and driving around, I've found a couple of routes that
::: will take me on 30 and 40+ mile rides. That got me to thinking that
::: some of these mapping / route / trip planning software program
::: might be useful for planning a route, initially. Naturally, I'd
::: drive the route once to see what it presents in terms of hills,
::: scenery, safety, etc.
:::
::: What I'd like is software app that will provide me street maps,
::: then let me select a route -- the actual streets -- and then give
::: me the miles on each segment and the total miles for that route.
::: Then I'd like to be able to make tweaks to it to adjust the miles.
::: A nice printout of the entire route with miles on each segment
::: would be nice too, go give to people who may ride with me.
::: Obviously, I'd like to store these so I can pick among them
::: depending on time available, who's riding with me, etc.
:::
::: Does anyone know if one of the available software programs would
::: meet my needs? Thanks.
:::
::
:: I use DeLorme Street Atlas and Microsoft Streets and Trips all the
:: time to plan bike rides. They have different limitations, but if
:: you realize they're intended for drivers and accept that, you can
:: make either of them work for you. My versions are quite old on
:: both. DeLorme allows a variety of printing options so that, when
:: you get a route planned out, it's easier to print yourself a map.
:: Streets & Trips has an easier route measuring feature, but it's
:: severely limited in terms of being able to print. One of your 40
:: mile trips might take four pages to print out.

I picked up Streets and Trips last night...have been playing a bit.

::
:: You should hook up with either the Greenville Spinners or the
:: Freewheelers of Spartanburg to learn routes in your area. Those are
:: both big clubs with lots of organized rides and events.

Yes, I'm going to do some Donaldson Center rides on Tuesday, and then my LBS
has a planned city-street ride on Wednesday evenings. I'll check on some
other events.

::
:: Upstate, SC has the finest cycling on the planet ... bar none

Really? I'm certainly enjoying what I'm learning....I just resume this
activity last September at 45...hadn't been on a bike since age 12...

:: (excepting for the many lousy tar and gravel roads and all the
:: bubbas in pickups).

Yeah, and all the Sunday morning church goers who'd be happy to mow me down
so they can get to the house of the lord on time....

::
:: Bob C.
:: Calhoun Falls, SC (and formerly from Anderson)

Wow.....small world! Maybe we'll meet up one day at some event. Be sure to
have "Bob C." in big bright letters on your jersey 🙂

Thanks.

Kent Hoult wrote:
:: I picked up a copy of microsoft steets & trips for about $15 (after
:: rebate). It seems to have a fairly up to date road list, lets me
:: force a route by dropping
:: intermediate points in, and draws/prints pretty good looking maps.

Yes, I picked up a copy last night....so far so good....

::
:: Also, it includes pocket maps to let you download/view your maps on a
:: pocket PC, and will show your position on it if you have a GPS.

So, do you ride with a GPS? I can see how that might come in handy....I
guess....

::
:: I first tried a Rand McNally one that had a more CDs in it's
:: database, but found it really inaccurate and didn't like the maps it
:: made. I returned it and
:: got the S&T instead.

I had a version of RM already....it sucked pretty badly.

Rick Onanian wrote:
:: On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:07:19 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::: What I'd like is software app that will provide me street maps,
::: then let me select a route -- the actual streets -- and then give
::: me the miles on each segment and the total miles for that route.
::: Then I'd like to be able to make tweaks to it to adjust the miles.
::: A nice printout of the entire route with miles on each segment
::: would be nice too, go give to people who may ride with me.
::: Obviously, I'd like to store these so I can pick among them
::: depending on time available, who's riding with me, etc.
::
:: With some creative techniques, Microsoft Streets & Trips works great
:: for this. You set the route preferences so that small roads are
:: faster and highways slow; and then, you insert stops wherever you
:: want the route to take a different road.

That's a great tip! I got a copy last night and have been using your
suggestions.

::
::: Does anyone know if one of the available software programs would
::: meet my needs? Thanks.
::
:: A recent discovery: The software on my new Garmin Ique 3600
:: (integrated PDA and GPS with mapping software) will route for
:: bicycles. There's a setting for it.

Wow...at $500+, I'd have to know a lot more about how well it works before
making any kind of investment. Does the mapping software actually run on
the PC, or it is only useful o the PDA/GPS?

:: --
:: Rick Onanian

Dave Pushee wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::
::: I've recently discovered that very near my house in upstate SC
::: (Mauldin) are some nice country roads that offer great early am
::: riding (maybe later, too, but I have to get to these places). With
::: a map book and driving around, I've found a couple of routes that
::: will take me on 30 and 40+ mile rides. That got me to thinking that
::: some of these mapping / route / trip planning software program
::: might be useful for planning a route, initially. Naturally, I'd
::: drive the route once to see what it presents in terms of hills,
::: scenery, safety, etc.
:::
::: What I'd like is software app that will provide me street maps,
::: then let me select a route -- the actual streets -- and then give
::: me the miles on each segment and the total miles for that route.
::: Then I'd like to be able to make tweaks to it to adjust the miles.
::: A nice printout of the entire route with miles on each segment
::: would be nice too, go give to people who may ride with me.
::: Obviously, I'd like to store these so I can pick among them
::: depending on time available, who's riding with me, etc.
:::
::: Does anyone know if one of the available software programs would
::: meet my needs? Thanks.
:::
::
::
::
:: I use DeLorme Street Atlas (2003). This does a pretty good job for
:: me.
::
:: The 2004 version is out now, and supposedly includes Canada as well
:: as the US. Price is about $50.
::
:: The routing function lets you set areas or types of roads to avoid.
:: You also can set average speeds for different road types. As you
:: develop routes, you can set locations that the route must pass, and
:: can set individual stop points along the way as well.
::
:: They have a pretty good database of businesses, parks, and other
:: items of interest so you can find the neares ice cream shop for your
:: midpoint.
::
:: They support GPS, and you can download the route as represented by
:: all of the intersections onto your GPS. I have a handlebar mount
:: for my Garmin eTrex.
::
:: Also, you can create routable segments where you know that a bikeable
:: trail exists, and the program will route you through it.
::
:: Delorme recently released Topo USA 5.0. This would handle the
:: climbing aspect as well, but I haven't used it so I'm not sure if
:: the routing is as good.

Thanks for the info....I got Streets and Trips last night for $23....I'm
going to see how far I can get with that before looking into something
else...I'll deal with the TOPO by driving the route, even though I'd still
like to know the Topo info -- I like knowing details like that....helps me
to understand my limitations better.

maner wrote:
::: Does anyone know if one of the available software programs would
::: meet my needs? Thanks.
::
:: Hi
:: You can use CycleAtlas, a free, open-source application. Actually, it
:: is available a stable version (0.8) and a development version (1.0)
::
:: http://cycleatlas.sf.net
::
::

[snipped]

::
:: Available in 0.8 version (ride archives)
::

I'll check that out since it's free! Thanks.

Roger Zoul said:

Kent Hoult wrote:
:: I picked up a copy of microsoft steets & trips for about $15 (after
:: rebate). It seems to have a fairly up to date road list, lets me
:: force a route by dropping
:: intermediate points in, and draws/prints pretty good looking maps.

Yes, I picked up a copy last night....so far so good....

::
:: Also, it includes pocket maps to let you download/view your maps on a
:: pocket PC, and will show your position on it if you have a GPS.

So, do you ride with a GPS? I can see how that might come in handy....I
guess....

<snip>

I've been using GPS professionally and personally since 1994 and I can
say that its been extremely useful, especially when in foreign
territory. Its not just a matter of being handy - its often meant the
difference between my making a flight or finding my way before
darkness set in.

Michael J. Klein
Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings

"Ken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

pete salomone <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

In 4. be sure you are using the current version of Topo. Pick a short
road segment and carefully calculate the altitude gains and losses.

Then

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

let us know how many years Topo roads are out of date and how many feet
of extra altitude gain it accummulates.

I am using DeLorme Topo USA 4.0, which I believe is the most recent

version.

Quoted message said:

On some steep, windy roads, it reports double the actual elevation gain.

These

Quoted message said:

are roads that are continuously uphill, but the program invents

non-existant

Quoted message said:

intermediate decents.

Regarding out-of-date roads, some highways that were built over 30 years

ago do

Quoted message said:

not appear in the program. Also, lots of bogus roads do appear (may have
existed 50 years ago, but now are long gone or are closed to the public).

If DeLorme fixed the above 2 problems, I would recommend the program to
everyone. As it is, the program is expensive and not very reliable.

FYI - DeLorme has recently released version 5.0. I don't know if it fixes
the problems you mention. On their website, they mention that the roads
data has been updated, but don't mention anything about the elevation gain
bug (which has been widely reported).

I have 4.0, but I'm not planning on upgrading to 5.0 anytime soon. I've not
been very happy with 4.0 for the reasons you mentioned, plus the fact that:

1) the software is buggy and they have not released a bug fix for 4.x for
over two years. My Search feature has not worked for quite a while, and
often the overview map will appear blank.

2) the user interface for Topo is really bad. They use a lot of
non-standard conventions, and make things a lot harder than they should be.
Adding a new route, saving data, printing, etc. are all more time-consuming
than they should be because they chose to ignore user interface standards
that other programs use.

I wish it were different, because I really like DeLorme's printed "Atlas and
Gazetteer" series of state maps, but, they really screwed the pooch with
Topo USA. Unfortunately, there are no alternatives either that I am aware
of.

--
~_-*
....G/ \G
http://www.CycliStats.com
CycliStats - Software for Cyclists

Roger Zoul said:

Rick Onanian wrote:
:: A recent discovery: The software on my new Garmin Ique 3600
:: (integrated PDA and GPS with mapping software) will route for
:: bicycles. There's a setting for it.

Wow...at $500+, I'd have to know a lot more about how well it works before
making any kind of investment.

I'm a bit disappointed with the GPS signal reception. It doesn't
seem to lock and keep it's lock very well, compared to my Etrex. I
bought an external antenna with it and haven't tried it; it's
possible that my windshield is too dirty and/or pitted and is
scrambling the signal. I'll try the antenna, mounted on the roof,
soon.

Quoted message said:

Does the mapping software actually run on
the PC, or it is only useful o the PDA/GPS?

Disappointingly, it doesn't include mapping software to run on the
PC. I haven't thoroughly explored the CDs, so I hope I'm wrong.
However, doing the work on the Ique is easy and pleasant. I'm not
sure if there's a way to get the data to a printer, though.

All in all, it's great for the purpose for which I bought it --
automotive navigation, and portable computer. It's also got a great
database of restaurants, stores, services, and so on. I can look up
bbq restaurants near any location much easier on the Ique than any
online phonebook. I did my taxes on the included full-featured
spreadsheet...
--
Rick Onanian