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Best rolling armoured tire?

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Cycling Equipment
Published
5 May 2004
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8 May 2004
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Bestest Handsan
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  1. I've built some training wheels (Ultegra, Open Pros), and I
    want to put some bullet proof tires on them. I don't mind a
    little extra weight, but I want the best riding tires I can
    find (smooth ride, low roll resistance, etc.). Which of the
    following do you prefer?

    Specialized All Condition Armadillo Conti Ultra Gator Skins
    Michelin Erilium Vittoria (which model is their high end
    puncture resistant one? or something I haven't thought of?

    Also, do you think running these tires with slime lite tubes
    is overkill? I ride in rural areas with lots of goatheads
    and tire slicing road hazards.

    Thanks

  2. "Bestest Handsander" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    :"]news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    I've built some training wheels (Ultegra, Open Pros), and
    I want to put some bullet proof tires on them. I don't
    mind a little extra weight, but I want the best riding
    tires I can find (smooth ride, low roll resistance, etc.).
    Which of the following do you prefer?

    Armadillo is the most puncture resistant, but also pretty
    heavy. I use Continental 4-Seasons during the winter. They
    are much lighter weight than the Armadillo, but still give
    good puncture resistance (on my roads).

  3. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by Bestest Handsan
    I've built some training wheels (Ultegra, Open Pros), and I
    want to put some bullet proof tires on them. I don't mind a
    little extra weight, but I want the best riding tires I can
    find (smooth ride, low roll resistance, etc.). Which of the
    following do you prefer?

    Specialized All Condition Armadillo Conti Ultra Gator Skins
    Michelin Erilium Vittoria (which model is their high end
    puncture resistant one? or something I haven't thought of?

    Also, do you think running these tires with slime lite tubes
    is overkill? I ride in rural areas with lots of goatheads
    and tire slicing road hazards.

    Thanks

    Rolling resistance and armour go in opposite directions in chosing features of tire compromise.
    If you want both in the same tire, that is understandable, but not attainable. Specialized Armadillo is hard to beat in minimizing flats. Yes, I would also go with the Slime lite tubes. If this combination keeps you rolling instead of stopped at the side of the road fixing flats, I think you have found a workable solution.
    Goatheads are a problem that takes serious measures.

  4. On Wed, 5 May 2004 10:26:20 -0600, "Bestest Handsander" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    I've built some training wheels (Ultegra, Open Pros), and I
    want to put some bullet proof tires on them. I don't mind a
    little extra weight, but I want the best riding tires I can
    find (smooth ride, low roll resistance, etc.). Which of the
    following do you prefer?

    Specialized All Condition Armadillo Conti Ultra Gator Skins
    Michelin Erilium Vittoria (which model is their high end
    puncture resistant one? or something I haven't thought of?

    Also, do you think running these tires with slime lite
    tubes is overkill? I ride in rural areas with lots of
    goatheads and tire slicing road hazards.

    Thanks

    Dear BH,

    Regrettably, the best protection against goatheads seems to
    be a combination of plastic tire liners and extra-thick thorn-
    resistant tubes.

    Kevlar threads don't stop needle-pointed goatheads, although
    the extra thickness of a kevlar belt may stop them short of
    puncturing tubes, just like the extra thickness of a thorn-
    resistant tube.

    The solid, pliable plastic tire liners often stop or deflect
    thorns and provide another layer of thickness for those that
    penetrate.

    Because the thorns stick up so high off the road, they can
    pierce the sidewalls, sneaking past both the feathered edges
    of the tire liners and the thick outer rim of the thorn-
    resistant tube. Unfortunately, slime sealant is liquid and
    flows away from the sides of the tire, so it doesn't work
    well on side punctures.

    Slime-lite tubes offer even less thorn protection than
    ordinary tubes, much less thorn-resistant tubes, because
    they're thinner.

    Or so several years of depressing spreadsheet statistics
    tracking my flat tires suggest. If I had any sense, I'd go
    back to tire liners and thorn resistant tubes instead of
    slime tubes--I had up to 80% fewer flats back then. I just
    can't stand the tire liners.

    Sixteen flats so far this year in 119 fifteen-mile rides,
    and goathead season hasn't really started yet.

    Bitterly,

    Carl Fogel

  5. daveornee said:

    Goatheads are a problem that takes serious measures.

    yea. it's my opinion that unless you're willing to go the
    whole nine yards (liners, slime) you're better off with a
    medium weight tire that's easy to get off the rim (vittoria
    rubino for me) and rides well and just get real good at
    fixing flats. goatheads will go through heavier road tires
    just the same and they'll ride worse.
    --
    david reuteler [email hidden]

  6. Bestest Handsander said:

    I've built some training wheels (Ultegra, Open Pros), and
    I want to put some bullet proof tires on them. I don't
    mind a little extra weight, but I want the best riding
    tires I can find (smooth ride, low roll resistance, etc.).
    Which of the following do you prefer?

    Specialized All Condition Armadillo Conti Ultra Gator
    Skins Michelin Erilium Vittoria (which model is their
    high end puncture resistant one? or something I haven't
    thought of?

    Also, do you think running these tires with slime lite
    tubes is overkill? I ride in rural areas with lots of
    goatheads and tire slicing road hazards.

    Vredestein tyres marked "PRS". 2,000 miles and no punctures
    on a touring bike ridden in all weathers.

  7. Bestest Handsander said:

    I've built some training wheels (Ultegra, Open Pros), and
    I want to put some bullet proof tires on them. I don't
    mind a little extra weight, but I want the best riding
    tires I can find (smooth ride, low roll resistance, etc.).
    Which of the following do you prefer?

    Quoted message said:

    Conti Ultra Gator Skins

    I have used Ultra GatorSkins for about 5000 kilometres, and
    I wouldn't call them bullet-proof. However, they are pretty
    close to light-weight racing tyres in terms of rolling
    resistance and they are arguably less prone to flats, so
    they are a good choice for training rides. I had two
    punctures last autumn with them, both from the same tiny,
    sharp piece of rock which had penetrated the kevlar lining
    of the front tyre.

    In general, I guess I should count myself lucky as I only
    get a flat perhaps once in every 5000 kilometres, even if I
    mostly use lightweight racing tyres. Over here the roads are
    reasonably good and clean from debris, so the worst threat
    to tyres is the gravel that is everywhere in late autumn and
    early spring, so that the pedestrians stay upright when it's
    slippery. We don't have separate paths for pedestrians and
    cyclists, so the cyclists just have to deal with it somehow
    (or ride on the street).

    -as (2000 km without flats on a road bike this year)

  8. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

    In article <[email hidden]>, Bestest

    Handsander said:

    I've built some training wheels (Ultegra, Open Pros), and I
    want to put some bullet proof tires on them. I don't mind a
    little extra weight, but I want the best riding tires I can
    find (smooth ride, low roll resistance, etc.). Which of the
    following do you prefer?

    Specialized All Condition Armadillo Conti Ultra Gator Skins
    Michelin Erilium Vittoria (which model is their high end
    puncture resistant one? or something I haven't thought of?

    _ I've been riding Bontrager Race Lite Hard Case all winter
    on my road bike. They aren't the zippiest tires in the
    world, but they stand up to a lot of abuse. Dirt roads and
    gravel are a regular feature on my rides.

    bontrager.comdetail.asp

    _ They were also cheaper than the Ultra Gator skins.

    _ Booker C. Bense

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  9. Radical approach, but hear me out:

    We pool a few bucks.

    Buy one road bike each for the CEO of Archer Daniels Midland, the CEO of Monsanto, and the CEO's of any other AgriBusiness titans.

    Get each of them clocking -- oh, 3-500 miles/week.

    First one flats . . . goatheads become extinct.

    I got a couple of bucks toward this. Who's with me?

    Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by Bestest Handsan

    Also, do you think running these tires with slime lite tubes
    is overkill? I ride in rural areas with lots of goatheads
    and tire slicing road hazards.

    Thanks

  10. neil0502 said:

    Buy one road bike each for the CEO of Archer Daniels
    Midland, [...]

    First one flats . . . goatheads become extinct.

    I got a couple of bucks toward this. Who's with me?

    Count me in, just as soon as somebody tells me what a
    goathead is.

    JLS

    --
    James "As a matter of fact I'm not from around here" Scott
    www.jls.cx

  11. The subject line rings of "What's the lightest Brink's
    armored car. Armored cars are heavy, bullet proof and not
    high performance, just the same as armored tires... except
    that armored tires are not puncture proof and still have
    miserable RR.

    The airless tire, Kevlar, and a slew of other cures for
    bicyclists who find flat tires the bane of bicycling, comes
    up here regularly. Considering how few of the many riders I
    meet on the road repairing flats, the search for the armored
    tire seems to be limited more than the amount of discussion.
    From their accounts they may even be limited to people who
    don't get many flats but are terrified of them for lack of
    skill in repairing them, in accessing the tube, patching it,
    and returning it too service. Clueless, glueless patches
    appear to fall into a similar category.

    Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

  12. James Scott said:
    neil0502 said:

    Buy one road bike each for the CEO of Archer Daniels
    Midland, [...]

    First one flats . . . goatheads become extinct.

    I got a couple of bucks toward this. Who's with me?

    Count me in, just as soon as somebody tells me what a
    goathead is.

    JLS

    Dear James,

    They're the evil goddamned spawn of Satan's garden, small,
    hard seeds that look like a goat's head viewed from the
    front with two horns. Here's one sitting on a dime, rolling
    its eyes at the camera and daring you to ride past:

    home.comcast.netGoathead.jpg

    Technically, it's tribulus terrestris, a weed probably
    originally from Yugoslavia, fond of harsh conditions (dry,
    sunny, distrubed earth--like the sides of roads) and also
    known as puncture vine.

    Neil's scheme is laudable, but so far the goatheads are
    winning, having extinguished bicycling in some regions near
    where I live. Only hardy mountain bike riders are seen in
    the really awful areas, their knobby tires providing
    considerable protection from the thorns.

    Carl Fogel

  13. James Scott said:
    Quoted message said:

    Buy one road bike each for the CEO of Archer Daniels
    Midland, [...]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    First one flats . . . goatheads become extinct.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I got a couple of bucks toward this. Who's with me?

    Quoted message said:

    Count me in, just as soon as somebody tells me what a
    goathead is.

    Don't believe these folks when they say "better living
    through chemistry" as they have been telling us. They cause
    more damage than good aka agent orange, and the less of it
    the better off our lives will be from many of their
    "advances".

    Puncture vine FAQ:

    draco.acs.uci.edu9.34.html

    Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

  14. Quoted message said:

    They're the evil goddamned spawn of Satan's garden, small,
    hard seeds that look like a goat's head viewed from the
    front with two horns.

    You're right, that's one evil-looking plant. I don't think
    I've seen anything like that 'round heah (Boston) but, like
    kudzu and arena football, it's probably just a matter of
    time. To combat goatheads, or at least make them tolerable,
    what we really need is a genetically modified aloe plant
    that thrives on the roadside and oozes vulcanizing fluid.

    Quoted message said:

    Technically, it's tribulus terrestris

    Entertainingly, web searching on the scientific name
    turned up pages

    raysahelian.comtribulus.html, for example.

    Quoted message said:

    Neil's scheme is laudable, but so far the goatheads are
    winning, having extinguished bicycling in some regions
    near where I live.

    Where is that? The web page referenced from the rbt FAQ
    mentioned Colorado.

    JLS
    --

    www.jls.cx

  15. "Bestest Handsander" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I've built some training wheels (Ultegra, Open Pros), and
    I want to put some bullet proof tires on them. I don't
    mind a little extra weight, but I want the best riding
    tires I can find (smooth ride, low roll resistance, etc.).
    Which of the following do you prefer?

    Specialized All Condition Armadillo Conti Ultra Gator
    Skins Michelin Erilium Vittoria (which model is their
    high end puncture resistant one? or something I haven't
    thought of?

    Also, do you think running these tires with slime lite
    tubes is overkill? I ride in rural areas with lots of
    goatheads and tire slicing road hazards.

    Thanks

    I have about 800 miles on a set of Ultra Gatorskins with one
    flat from a shard of glass (naturally on the first day I had
    them). I don't know about long term performance against
    flats, but I love the way they roll. This is not goathead
    country, main problem is glass. I run a slime tube in the
    back, plain tube in the front.

    If you to stop high velocity ammunition, get Maxxis
    Hookworms and Maxxis Downhill tubes. Heavy as hell but
    amazingly smooth rollers.
    cheg01.home.comcast.netdb cruiser1.jpg Unfortunately
    they don't come in anything over 26".

  16. James Scott said:
    Quoted message said:

    They're the evil goddamned spawn of Satan's garden,
    small, hard seeds that look like a goat's head viewed
    from the front with two horns.

    You're right, that's one evil-looking plant. I don't think
    I've seen anything like that 'round heah (Boston) but, like
    kudzu and arena football, it's probably just a matter of
    time. To combat goatheads, or at least make them tolerable,
    what we really need is a genetically modified aloe plant
    that thrives on the roadside and oozes vulcanizing fluid.

    Quoted message said:

    Technically, it's tribulus terrestris

    Entertainingly, web searching on the scientific name
    turned up pages

    Quoted message said:

    raysahelian.comtribulus.html, for example.

    Quoted message said:

    Neil's scheme is laudable, but so far the goatheads are
    winning, having extinguished bicycling in some regions
    near where I live.

    Where is that? The web page referenced from the rbt FAQ
    mentioned Colorado.

    JLS

    Dear James,

    Where?

    I pedal west up the north bank of the Arkansas River valley
    from Pueblo, Colorado--no goatheads in the river bottom.

    South across the river and up the bluffs on the far side and
    back into town along a quiet highway--goatheads blowing
    hither and yon in the breeze of the Great Plains.

    As a rule of thumb, goatheads go with prairie rattlesnakes
    in the hot places, not with the bullsnakes in shade.

    West of Pueblo and north of the river valley is a bedroom
    community rejoicing in the clever name of Pueblo West. It's
    improving, but large areas grow little but goatheads that
    thrive on the scraped and baked prairie.

    Local bike shops hate to sell 700c bikes to people who live
    in Pueblo West because the bikes are returned so often. Two
    flat tires each time in half a dozen attempts to ride down
    to the corner can be awfully dscouraging. Children don't
    venture outdoors barefoot in much of Pueblo West.

    Such infestations are surprisingly local. I rode a five-
    speed 27-inch Schwinn four miles daily back and forth to
    school for several years as a boy and vaguely recall only a
    single flat tire. Goatheads are no problem well within the
    city on paved streets lined by homes with tended lawns. But
    you can't lure me into heading east instead of west on the
    river trail--there's a hundred yard section where it's
    easier to pick a dog up and carry it than to try to force it
    to walk over the goatheads.

    I expect that there are similar and worse areas scattered
    around the more arid parts of the SouthWest U.S. and
    different thorns in other places.

    Whenever I get too depressed about it, I look at this post
    and picture from a cheerful Australian:

    groups.google.comgroups
    jack%2Bgroup:rec.bicycles.tech%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-
    8%26oe%3DUTF-
    8%26group%3Drec.bicycles.tech%26scoring%3Dd%26selm%3D8bbde8-
    fc.0312251828.520519ea%2540posting.google.com%26rnum%3D4

    or

    tinyurl.com25mny

    His "three-cornered Jack" version of a biological caltrop
    has THREE goddamned thorns.

    Unfortunately, it's spreading toward Colorado.

    Carl Fogel

  17. cheg said:

    I have about 800 miles on a set of Ultra Gatorskins with
    one flat from a shard of glass (naturally on the first day
    I had them). I don't know about long term performance
    against flats, but I love the way they roll. This is not
    goathead country, main problem is glass. I run a slime
    tube in the back, plain tube in the front.

    If you to stop high velocity ammunition, get Maxxis
    Hookworms and Maxxis Downhill tubes. Heavy as hell but
    amazingly smooth rollers.
    cheg01.home.comcast.netdb cruiser1.jpg
    Unfortunately they don't come in anything over 26".

    Is that one of Sheldon's Real Man Saddles?

  18. Bestest Handsander said:

    I've built some training wheels (Ultegra, Open Pros), and
    I want to put some bullet proof tires on them. I don't
    mind a little extra weight, but I want the best riding
    tires I can find (smooth ride, low roll resistance, etc.).
    Which of the following do you prefer?

    Specialized All Condition Armadillo Conti Ultra Gator
    Skins Michelin Erilium Vittoria (which model is their
    high end puncture resistant one? or something I haven't
    thought of?

    Well, if 700x28 is not too wide for your purposes, there is
    a tire from Schwalbe called the Marathon Plus that bears
    looking at. schwalbetires.comon tour.php
    me=MARATHON%20PLUS&Image=TireImages/marathon_plus.gif#

    Unlike all the other "flat resistant" tires I've ever seen,
    which laminate some extra-tough material into the casing
    under the tread rubber, the Schwalbe Marathon Plus uses a
    thick-- like 5mm-- layer of soft elastomeric rubber between
    the tread and the tire casing. This layer serves two
    purposes: it adds significant thickness to the tread,
    keeping short penetrating objects further away from the
    tube, and its soft elasticity tends to work foreign objects
    back out instead of holding them while they chafe their way
    through the tire.

    The squishy layer is composed of some low-hysteresis
    material so that it does not elevate rolling resistance
    significantly over that of a similar tire without the layer.
    One of my coworkers commutes 40 miles round trip on these
    tires, and he swears that they roll easier than his previous
    cheapie skinwall slicks.

    He points out another advantage of this tire construction--
    the improved ride quality. Since the elastomeric layer is
    outside the tire casing, it remains somewhat soft regardless
    of how hard you inflate the tire. In this respect the tire
    is like a dual-rate shock spring, with a low initial rate
    for small bump attenuation followed by a higher rate for
    major impacts. I have sampled his bike and I can attest that
    the effect is easy to feel. It's like riding a narrow tire
    with low pressure, but it doesn't bottom and pinch the tube.

    I wonder whether the tire might be subject to delamination
    problems as it wears out, but so far I've not seen one
    ridden to its limit. I suppose I can find out for myself
    since I've got some on order.

    Chalo Colina

  19. cheg said:

    I have about 800 miles on a set of Ultra Gatorskins with
    one flat from a shard of glass (naturally on the first day
    I had them). I don't know about long term performance
    against flats, but I love the way they roll. This is not
    goathead country, main problem is glass. I run a slime tube
    in the back, plain tube in the front.

    I gave up on the Armadillos (very heavy, "dead" feeling, and
    with a tendency to blow off at the rated pressure).

    I ran the Conti Gatorskins for a year or so, and was VERY
    pleased with them. I still had an occasional flat from
    perfectly placed thorns, but compared to "normal tires" I
    was going probably 50x as many miles per flat.

    I'm running Panaracer T-Serv tires now. Like the Contis,
    they feel and ride like "normal tires", and the flat
    protection seems to be pretty much the same as the Contis.
    It does seem like the sidewalls are a little tougher though,
    and they're MUCH less expensive. I've been running a 1.25" /
    32mm pair on a 26" urban bike for well over a year (probably
    5,000 miles) and the rear is just beginning to show some
    wear. The front looks like a new (dirty...) tire.

    Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.com Home of
    the $695 ti frame

  20. James Scott said:

    Count me in, just as soon as somebody tells me what a
    goathead is.

    lucky [censored].
    --
    david reuteler [email hidden]

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