Best Drugged Performance Ever

(Andrew Albright) said:

So I'm going through old cycling videos and ran across the 1997 Tour of Romandy. For my money for
confirmed cases of drugging, that has to be the most dominant performance ever. In particular there
was a stage 3 that was this slightly uphill finish. Dufaux started sprinting from 1k out and won by
10 seconds. cyclingnews.comromandie98.htmlOpen ↗ He didn't even hide that
he was that much stronger than anyone else. It would have been the equivalent of someone coming
into the final sprint of MSR or P-R and winning by 50 bike lengths. 95% domination. 95% doping.
(190 points)

Of course one never knows in other cases whether or not someone was actually doping, so I
suppose if one were to say Pantani's Tour win, then there is good liklihood he was doping, like
maybe 80%. So if it was a 70% of maximum dominant performance, then that would be Doping
Dominant Score of 150.

Armstrong tour wins. Most dominant performance, like an 85 domination factor and then a good 75%
doping factor only nets him a 160 total score.

So in summary, really one is going to be hard pressed to come up with something as good as 1997
Tour of Romandy.

Bjarne Riis - Stages 16 and 17 of '96 TdF

cyclingnews.comstage16.htmlOpen ↗

cyclingnews.comstage17.htmlOpen ↗

Stephen

"Andrew Albright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So I'm going through old cycling videos and ran across the 1997 Tour of Romandy. For my money for
confirmed cases of drugging, that has to be the most dominant performance ever. In particular
there was a stage 3 that was this slightly uphill finish. Dufaux started sprinting from 1k out and
won by 10 seconds. cyclingnews.comromandie98.htmlOpen ↗ He didn't even
hide that he was that much stronger than anyone else. It would have been the equivalent of someone
coming into the final sprint of MSR or P-R and winning by 50 bike lengths. 95% domination. 95%
doping. (190 points)

Of course one never knows in other cases whether or not someone was actually doping, so I
suppose if one were to say Pantani's Tour win, then there is good liklihood he was doping, like
maybe 80%. So if it was a 70% of maximum dominant performance, then that would be Doping
Dominant Score of 150.

Armstrong tour wins. Most dominant performance, like an 85 domination factor and then a good 75%
doping factor only nets him a 160 total score.

So in summary, really one is going to be hard pressed to come up with something as good as 1997
Tour of Romandy.

Giorgio Furlan's attack from the bottom of the Poggio @ 50kph.

His time was 1 minute faster than Bettini could manage the last few years even being pulled by the
peloton on the first half.

[email hidden] (Andrew Albright) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Team or individual ?

I have the centrefold from a '97 Cyclesport in my office which shows the entire Festina team at the
front of the pack on a mtn. stage, from the heyday of French cycling.

4 stage wins and GC spots for Dufaux and Virenque.

They lose domination marks for not winning the race.

Contender for best individual has to be Pantani's '99 Giro with daily epic solo attacks and making
Zulle crack and lose like 40 minutes while still contesting sprint finales along the way4.

Quoted message said:

So I'm going through old cycling videos and ran across the 1997 Tour of Romandy. For my money for
confirmed cases of drugging, that has to be the most dominant performance ever. In particular
there was a stage 3 that was this slightly uphill finish. Dufaux started sprinting from 1k out and
won by 10 seconds. cyclingnews.comromandie98.htmlOpen ↗

That's '98 results, but whatev'

Attempting to judge whether doping was used based on the performance observed ignores the facts
about doping. With the exception of EPO and possibly anabolics for strength events, the performance
benefits are pretty small if present at all. Using performance to look for doping is like looking
for your car keys in the kitchen because the light is better there. Doped riders are just as likely
to be finishing in the back of the pack.

--
Mike Murray

"Andrew Albright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So I'm going through old cycling videos and ran across the 1997 Tour of Romandy. For my money for
confirmed cases of drugging, that has to be the most dominant performance ever. In particular
there was a stage

Pantani winning Giro and TdF.
Mr. 60% winning the Tour. Thevenet winning the Tour 1975 later admitting he was well doped on
steroids. Does LeMond using iron injections at the end of the 1989 Giro count as doping in the
1989 Tour?

"Steve McGinty" <stephenmcginty@ntlworld_DOT_.com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(Andrew Albright) said:

So I'm going through old cycling videos and ran across the 1997 Tour of Romandy. For my money for
confirmed cases of drugging, that has to be the most dominant performance ever. In particular
there was a stage 3 that was this slightly uphill finish. Dufaux started sprinting from 1k out
and won by 10 seconds. cyclingnews.comromandie98.htmlOpen ↗ He didn't
even hide that he was that much stronger than anyone else. It would have been the equivalent of
someone coming into the final sprint of MSR or P-R and winning by 50 bike lengths. 95%
domination. 95% doping. (190 points)

Of course one never knows in other cases whether or not someone was actually doping, so I suppose
if one were to say Pantani's Tour win, then there is good liklihood he was doping, like maybe
80%. So if it was a 70% of maximum dominant performance, then that would be Doping Dominant Score
of 150.

Armstrong tour wins. Most dominant performance, like an 85 domination factor and then a good 75%
doping factor only nets him a 160 total score.

So in summary, really one is going to be hard pressed to come up with something as good as 1997
Tour of Romandy.

Bjarne Riis - Stages 16 and 17 of '96 TdF

cyclingnews.comstage16.htmlOpen ↗

cyclingnews.comstage17.htmlOpen ↗

Stephen

Maybe the Gewiss 1-2-3 at Fleche Wallone.

JT

"Magni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Snhta.54329

Quoted message said:

Does LeMond using iron injections at the end of the 1989 Giro count as doping in the 1989 Tour?

Was it against the rules? If not, it wasn't doping.

JT

Yeah, but...

Sometimes the morons are at the front.

As per XC ski racing where the biggest recent doping prize goes to what's-his-name for winning
basically every race he entered in the last Olympics by a long shot. One poor 2nd place dude, Per
Elofsson---erstwhile Goldie himself and typically not too flappable---shattered his health trying
to contend in their first head-to-head. Ruined his own Olys just trying to ski as per usual with
Mr. Dope. I suppose he thought something was wrong with HIM. Oh, and Mr. Dope was actually drugging
and injecting himself DURING the Olys because he thought he was undetectable. They busted him
BIGTIME. And a bunch of other winners as well, who were, I believe using the same drug, mainly
Rooskie ladies.

Mike Murray said:

Attempting to judge whether doping was used based on the performance observed ignores the facts
about doping. With the exception of EPO and possibly anabolics for strength events, the
performance benefits are pretty small if present at all. Using performance to look for doping is
like looking for your car keys in the kitchen because the light is better there. Doped riders are
just as likely to be finishing in the back of the pack.

--

Jeff Potter [email hidden] outyourbackdoor.comoutyourbackdoor.comOpen ↗ -- a friendly ezine of modern
folkways and culture revival...offering a line of alternative books and a world of bikes, boats,
skis...plus shops for great sleeper books, videos and music ...plus nationwide "Off the Beaten Path"
travel forums for local fun, bumperstickers and a new social magnet stickers! ...Holy Smokes!!!

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Maybe the Gewiss 1-2-3 at Fleche Wallone.

In 1994. Followed by a Liege-Bastogne-Liege where Berzin wins from a 6 rider group: Armstrong,
Furlan, Chiapucci, della Santa, Rominger. The guy that made the most in prize money from that race
was Ferrari, although he didn't get a stake in Armstrong until the following year. But his stamp on
that race was large.

"It seems to be much more difficult this year for some reason. There's a lot of guys that go much
faster this year. I'm just as fit and feel just as good as last year, but my strength within the
peloton has sort of gone down. A lot of riders are stronger." - Armstrong, in Lille at the start of
the 1994 Tour.

Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

Jeff Potter said:

Oh, and Mr. Dope was actually drugging and injecting himself DURING the Olys because he thought he
was undetectable. They busted him BIGTIME. And a bunch of other winners as well, who were, I
believe using the same drug, mainly Rooskie ladies.

Muehlegg, Lazutina and Danilova each got busted after clearing tests after two prior medals. So I'd
say they all had reason to believe it was, in fact, undetectable. There were at least six tests that
came up false negative, who knows how many there were in total.

Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

they actually only caught Johann or whomever cause they happened to have the correct test sitting
around and someone said in effect hey let's see if this one turns anything up.. it was a truely
random happening in the controls that they latter played up hugely.. Note teh only lost the medal
for the one race not all of them as he probabl;y should have. Worse was the Austrain team that left
al of their doping IV's, bas and needles in the house trash for the maid servie to find....

Jeff Potter said:

Yeah, but...

Sometimes the morons are at the front.

As per XC ski racing where the biggest recent doping prize goes to what's-his-name for winning
basically every race he entered in the last Olympics by a long shot. One poor 2nd place dude, Per
Elofsson---erstwhile Goldie himself and typically not too flappable---shattered his health trying
to contend in their first head-to-head. Ruined his own Olys just trying to ski as per usual with
Mr. Dope. I suppose he thought something was wrong with HIM. Oh, and Mr. Dope was actually
drugging and injecting himself DURING the Olys because he thought he was undetectable. They busted
him BIGTIME. And a bunch of other winners as well, who were, I believe using the same drug, mainly
Rooskie ladies.

Mike Murray said:

Attempting to judge whether doping was used based on the performance observed ignores the facts
about doping. With the exception of EPO and possibly anabolics for strength events, the
performance benefits are pretty small if present at all. Using performance to look for doping is
like looking for your car keys in the kitchen because the light is better there. Doped riders are
just as likely to be finishing in the back of the pack.

--

Jeff Potter [email hidden] outyourbackdoor.comoutyourbackdoor.comOpen ↗ -- a friendly ezine of modern
folkways and culture revival...offering a line of alternative books and a world of bikes, boats,
skis...plus shops for great sleeper books, videos and music ...plus nationwide "Off the Beaten
Path" travel forums for local fun, bumperstickers and a new social magnet stickers! ...Holy
Smokes!!!

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Maybe the Gewiss 1-2-3 at Fleche Wallone.

In 1994. Followed by a Liege-Bastogne-Liege where Berzin wins from a 6 rider group: Armstrong,
Furlan, Chiapucci, della Santa, Rominger. The guy that made the most in prize money from that race
was Ferrari, although he didn't get a stake in Armstrong until the following year. But his stamp
on that race was large.

"It seems to be much more difficult this year for some reason. There's a lot of guys that go much
faster this year. I'm just as fit and feel just as good as last year, but my strength within the
peloton has sort of gone down. A lot of riders are stronger." - Armstrong, in Lille at the start
of the 1994 Tour.

I don't doubt that Berzin was EPO'd out, but that hardly qualifies as the best drugged
performance ever.

luc leblanc, world championships.....1996? or 1997?

Kurgan Gringioni said:

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In 1994. Followed by a Liege-Bastogne-Liege where Berzin wins from a 6 rider group: Armstrong,
Furlan, Chiapucci, della Santa, Rominger. The guy that made the most in prize money from that
race was Ferrari, although he didn't get a stake in Armstrong until the following year. But his
stamp on that race was large.

Quoted message said:

I don't doubt that Berzin was EPO'd out, but that hardly qualifies as the best drugged
performance ever.

Yeah but he gets extra style points from the high juice level of the chasing group. The juiciest of
the juiced.

Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

[email hidden] (John Forrest Tomlinson) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Magni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Snhta.54329

Quoted message said:

Does LeMond using iron injections at the end of the 1989 Giro count as doping in the 1989 Tour?

Was it against the rules? If not, it wasn't doping.

JT

There has been much speculation that it was NOT iron he injected...

Chris

me said:

[ ] Worse was the Austrain team that left al of their doping IV's, bas and needles in the house
trash for the maid servie to find....

But this was a thread about best performance, not worst dopers. : )

Mr. Drugs just left everyone behind at the start of every event he started, as I recall. Total,
huge, unprecedented dominance. I nominate this for Best Drugged Racing of all time! Different
sport but what the heck, it's similar. They use the same drugs, probably.

So his score is 100% doping, 100% dominance. Total victory! As a fitting tribute, I don't use his
name. Mr. Drugs it is!

He didn't bother to hide anything in the slightest. He just left everyone at the start in multiple
events! He was pretty good before this, with some wins, but I think this latest was at least a
doubling of his dominance. He was always known as a bit mentally flakey, too. I wonder what his
"coach" was thinking? I don't think he had a nat'l coach, I believe he only had his personal staff
of criminals. It was all so obvious. Like a Mike Tyson support crew. Did they think it was funny?
"Hey, I know, dude, don't even hold back. Beat em from the start! What a gas!"

Apparently the general race support staff populace were immediately [censored], it was so obvious. I
think that the other racers were silly to even start with him, but of course that would've been
unfair. A man has to be caught fair and square after all, even if he's dancing around like a pixie.
I mean, why did poor Per even try to chase? Well, I guess it's fun to beat the druggies. But Per
overdid himself trying to do it and wrecked the rest of his Games. He should've just been laughing
and pointing a finger at that point. But we have our Cult of Silence to maintain, doncha know. Don't
want to be called a Sore Loser. Well, I'm sure someone in R.S.N. knows more. But it really was
Shockingly Doped.

--

Jeff Potter [email hidden] outyourbackdoor.comoutyourbackdoor.comOpen ↗ -- a friendly ezine of modern
folkways and culture revival...offering a line of alternative books and a world of bikes, boats,
skis...plus shops for great sleeper books, videos and music ...plus nationwide "Off the Beaten Path"
travel forums for local fun, bumperstickers and a new social magnet stickers! ...Holy Smokes!!!

me <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

they actually only caught Johann or whomever cause they happened to have the correct test sitting
around and someone said in effect hey let's see if this one turns anything up.. it was a truely
random happening in the controls that they latter played up hugely.. Note teh only lost the medal
for the one race not all of them as he probabl;y should have. Worse was the Austrain team that
left al of their doping IV's, bas and needles in the house trash for the maid servie to find....

I heard the IOC intentionally leaked info that they did NOT have a test for Nesp (which Muelegg got
busted with).

Chris

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kurgan Gringioni said:

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In 1994. Followed by a Liege-Bastogne-Liege where Berzin wins from a 6 rider group: Armstrong,
Furlan, Chiapucci, della Santa, Rominger. The guy that made the most in prize money from that
race was Ferrari, although he didn't get a stake in Armstrong until the following year. But his
stamp on that race was large.

Quoted message said:

I don't doubt that Berzin was EPO'd out, but that hardly qualifies as

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

best drugged performance ever.

Yeah but he gets extra style points from the high juice level of the chasing group. The juiciest
of the juiced.

IIRC, he had a teamate in the group, didn't attack on one of the climbs, and the others hesitated.
He also didn't attack until they were in the streets of Liege where the riding was more technical.

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

IIRC, he had a teamate in the group, didn't attack on one of the climbs,

and

Quoted message said:

the others hesitated. He also didn't attack until they were in the streets of Liege where the
riding was more technical.

Just like Tyler this\year! (except that Tyler is not a flash in the pan type of rider)

Jeff