Best book on training?

"Laz Miskowski" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

I ... would like to find a book that gives good advice on
training for speed.

All together now: Joe Friel's Cyclists Training Bible,
VeloPress.

Quoted message said:

Also, can someone give me an idea of how fast/good one has
to be to not be completely embarrassed in a Cat 5 race? (I
need a goal). Thanks.

Find a club that races and that accepts new riders (ask at a
local bike shop if need be). Start riding with them on
training rides. The jump from being a strong recreational
rider to a merely adequate racer is a bigger step than you
might think.

JF

In article <yGqEc.32100$l6.12354@clgrps12>, Jim Flom

Quoted message said:

"Laz Miskowski" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Also, can someone give me an idea of how fast/good one
has to be to not be completely embarrassed in a Cat 5
race? (I need a goal). Thanks.

Find a club that races and that accepts new riders (ask at
a local bike shop if need be). Start riding with them on
training rides. The jump from being a strong recreational
rider to a merely adequate racer is a bigger step than you
might think.

Do you have to be as fast as a "merely adequate racer" to
be a Cat 5?

-WG

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Laz Miskowski) said:

I am a recreational cyclist, with higher aspirations,
but not a lot of time. I'm trying to maximize my
training, and would like to find a book that gives good
advice on training for speed. I.e. intervals, target
heart zones, etc.

Also, can someone give me an idea of how fast/good one has
to be to not be completely embarrassed in a Cat 5 race? (I
need a goal). Thanks.

TT times are a really good index for basic fitness within
a category.

Here's some 10k TT results, on a flat out-and-back course,
in what I believe were good conditions. The "C" group riders
are effectively Cat 5s and maybe Cat 4s.

escapevelocity.bc.cass2004 results.htmlOpen ↗

The short answer from these results is that if you find you
can TT 10k in 17-18 minutes, you'll probably be able to hang
onto a Cat 5 pack. If you can TT 10k in about 15 minutes (40
km/h) you're probably in shape to really do something in a
Cat 5 race.

If you're taking more than 20 minutes to do a 10 k TT,
train harder. Fast distance runners can do 10 k in less
than 30 minutes, and it's bad to be slower than a person
without a bicycle.

BTW, the guys who won that race on the tandem are an
interesting pair. The captain is a local pretty fast guy,
but the stoker is blind. He's also one of the fastest blind
riders in the country.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden]
sfu.cawiredcolaOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio
Mazzoleni Fan Club

Ryan Cousineau said:

BTW, the guys who won that race on the tandem are an
interesting pair. The captain is a local pretty fast guy,
but the stoker is blind. He's also one of the fastest
blind riders in the country.

He's blindingly fast?

"warren" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Laz Miskowski" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Also, can someone give me an idea of how fast/good one
has to be to not be completely embarrassed in a Cat 5
race?

< Jim Flom's helpful response snipped >

Do you have to be as fast as a "merely adequate racer" to
be a Cat 5?

The question is, does Laz, who simply hopes not to be
completely embarrassed?

Welcome to the world of amateur snobbery, Laz. The logic
goes something like this: you're not a real (let alone a
"merely adequate"😉 racer until you're a Cat ___ (fill in the
blank with anything except a 5 (or 4, or 3, etc., depending
on who you're talking to). Once you are encouraged that you
can hang with the 5s, some 3s (& sophomoric 4s) will be
looking down their noses at you because, after all, you are
not yet a 3 (or 4, or ... whatever). You have fun. Do your
time in the 5s, shave your legs, learn what you can about
team tactics (help your team-mates), and you will be a 4,
and maybe better. Meanwhile, you'll be passing all the
recreational cyclists when you're out riding, but greet them
anyway. If you are blessed along the way to meet a class act
professional like a Tyler Hamilton (for instance), i.e.,
someone who is accomplished, humble, encouraging, and
gracious, you'll get a glimpse of the best of bicycle
racing. It will inspire you. In the meantime, there are
others who draw unimportant distinctions. So make it fun.
Keep your sense of humour. Get strong. Beat somebody. In the
end, it's whether you are having a good time.

JF

Laz Miskowski said:

I am a recreational cyclist, with higher aspirations,
but not a lot of time. I'm trying to maximize my
training, and would like to find a book that gives good
advice on training for speed. I.e. intervals, target
heart zones, etc.

You can try reading Friel's book - there are other books
like those by Burke, Baker, etc. They all are imperfect,
I guess, but better than the stuff in magazines. Take
Jim Flom's advice about finding people to ride with. You
also want to learn stuff like how to be comfortable
riding in a group.

Now the my-fatass part, really trolling for Connelly, Chung,
and Coggan:

Quoted message said:

Also, can someone give me an idea of how fast/good one has
to be to not be completely embarrassed in a Cat 5 race? (I
need a goal).

It's difficult to give speed goals due to the nature of bike
racing - it's not like running.

But, based on last weekend's Pescadero RR, 4.2 watts/kg for
10 min isn't good enough.

IME, Ben

Benjamin Weiner said:

Now the my-fatass part, really trolling for Connelly,
Chung, and Coggan:

Quoted message said:

Also, can someone give me an idea of how fast/good one
has to be to not be completely embarrassed in a Cat 5
race? (I need a goal).

It's difficult to give speed goals due to the nature of
bike racing - it's not like running.

But, based on last weekend's Pescadero RR, 4.2 watts/kg
for 10 min isn't good enough.

Coggan doesn't like his power profiling table to be used
this way but, like
ucolick.orgobesity vote.gifOpen ↗,
sometimes we can't control the way that the stuff we put on
the web is used:

peakscoachinggroup.compowerprofiling.htmlOpen ↗

In article <40e27471$1@darkstar>, Benjamin Weiner

Quoted message said:

Laz Miskowski said:

I am a recreational cyclist, with higher aspirations,
but not a lot of time. I'm trying to maximize my
training, and would like to find a book that gives good
advice on training for speed. I.e. intervals, target
heart zones, etc.

You can try reading Friel's book - there are other books
like those by Burke, Baker, etc. They all are imperfect,
I guess, but better than the stuff in magazines. Take Jim
Flom's advice about finding people to ride with. You also
want to learn stuff like how to be comfortable riding in
a group.

Now the my-fatass part, really trolling for Connelly,
Chung, and Coggan:

Quoted message said:

Also, can someone give me an idea of how fast/good one
has to be to not be completely embarrassed in a Cat 5
race? (I need a goal).

It's difficult to give speed goals due to the nature of
bike racing - it's not like running.

But, based on last weekend's Pescadero RR, 4.2 watts/kg
for 10 min isn't good enough.

Too bad you didn't ride with the women's 1,2 "pro" race. The
winner's time was 4 minutes slower than the men's 1,2,P
winner and the men rode 28 miles farther (103 vs. 75).

-WG

In article <3ysEc.33172$l6.8803@clgrps12>, Jim Flom

Quoted message said:

"warren" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Laz Miskowski" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

> Also, can someone give me an idea of how fast/good
> one has to be to not be completely embarrassed in a
> Cat 5 race?

< Jim Flom's helpful response snipped >

Do you have to be as fast as a "merely adequate racer"
to be a Cat 5?

The question is, does Laz, who simply hopes not to be
completely embarrassed?

Welcome to the world of amateur snobbery, Laz.

I guess I should have provided you with a ;-) so you'd be
more aware of the intent of my comment.

I also wouldn't use a term like "merely adequate racer"
because that is what you call amateur snobbery. Your reply
below is more helpful.

-WG

Quoted message said:

The logic goes something like this: you're not a real (let
alone a "merely adequate"😉 racer until you're a Cat ___
(fill in the blank with anything except a 5 (or 4, or 3,
etc., depending on who you're talking to). Once you are
encouraged that you can hang with the 5s, some 3s (&
sophomoric 4s) will be looking down their noses at you
because, after all, you are not yet a 3 (or 4, or ...
whatever). You have fun. Do your time in the 5s, shave
your legs, learn what you can about team tactics (help
your team-mates), and you will be a 4, and maybe better.
Meanwhile, you'll be passing all the recreational cyclists
when you're out riding, but greet them anyway. If you are
blessed along the way to meet a class act professional
like a Tyler Hamilton (for instance), i.e., someone who is
accomplished, humble, encouraging, and gracious, you'll
get a glimpse of the best of bicycle racing. It will
inspire you. In the meantime, there are others who draw
unimportant distinctions. So make it fun. Keep your sense
of humour. Get strong. Beat somebody. In the end, it's
whether you are having a good time.

JF

"warren" wrote...

Quoted message said:

I guess I should have provided you with a ;-) so you'd be
more aware of the intent of my comment.

I was actually caught off guard by the question, coming from
you, Warren. I just get a little tired of the snide remarks
so I vented. I should've just let it pass.

JF

In article <L7BEc.58343$E84.52992@edtnps89>, Jim Flom

Quoted message said:

"warren" wrote...

Quoted message said:

I guess I should have provided you with a ;-) so you'd
be more aware of the intent of my comment.

I was actually caught off guard by the question, coming
from you, Warren. I just get a little tired of the snide
remarks so I vented. I should've just let it pass.

Your "venting" provided the OP with some advice that will
become valuable as he wades into the arena of bike racing.

-WG

[email hidden] (Laz Miskowski) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I am a recreational cyclist, with higher aspirations,
but not a lot of time. I'm trying to maximize my
training, and would like to find a book that gives good
advice on training for speed. I.e. intervals, target
heart zones, etc.

Also, can someone give me an idea of how fast/good one has
to be to not be completely embarrassed in a Cat 5 race? (I
need a goal). Thanks.

I think that CTS www.trainright.com is a good choice. for
sport is is like 40 bucks a month. and will give you highly
effective no thought training.

To make the jump to racing requires the following

1. A level of comfort in a pack. Racing is an order of
magnitude closer than group rides. your first race will
be stressful, but you get used to it and in no time your
are that idiot who inserted himself in a hole that wasn't
there during your first race

2. Comfort averageing 30-35km an hour. i.e solidly aerobic.

3. the ability to jump to 50km to catch a group. and
then quickly settle back in. and reapeat again in
2:00 minutes.

If you can do these things. you have a good shot. not a lot
of guys who are suffering a little sit at the back which is
the worst place to be. try to be in at least the front half.
you will work a lot less hard as whiplash amplifies at the
back. and you are far mor likely to get stuck behind a guy
who can't close the gap and have to do it yourself.

obviously bike handling skills are emphasized more in crits
and power is emphasized more in RR's.

Bicycle Racing 101 by the Wenzels is also pretty good.

-Dion

"Laz Miskowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am a recreational cyclist, with higher aspirations,
but not a lot of time. I'm trying to maximize my
training, and would like to find a book that gives good
advice on training for speed. I.e. intervals, target
heart zones, etc.

Also, can someone give me an idea of how fast/good one has
to be to not be completely embarrassed in a Cat 5 race? (I
need a goal). Thanks.

I've asked this question in the past and most people have
responded that Smart Cycling by Arnie Baker is the best. I
checked it and its quite good.

On 29 Jun 2004 17:20:35 -0700, [email hidden] (Laz

Miskowski) said:

I am a recreational cyclist, with higher aspirations,
but not a lot of time. I'm trying to maximize my
training, and would like to find a book that gives good
advice on training for speed. I.e. intervals, target
heart zones, etc.

Also, can someone give me an idea of how fast/good one has
to be to not be completely embarrassed in a Cat 5 race? (I
need a goal). Thanks.

Robert Chung said:

Benjamin Weiner wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Now the my-fatass part, really trolling for Connelly,
Chung, and Coggan:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But, based on last weekend's Pescadero RR, 4.2 watts/kg
for 10 min isn't good enough.

Quoted message said:

Coggan doesn't like his power profiling table to be used
this way but, like
ucolick.orgobesity vote.gifOpen ↗,
sometimes we can't control the way that the stuff we put
on the web is used:

Quoted message said:

peakscoachinggroup.compowerprofiling.htmlOpen ↗

Yup, I have looked at that. One reason to troll for Coggan -
I'm curious about those numbers, and how old the data is. It
seems discrepant.

My number came from a stopwatch and a topo map.

Ben climb time: 9:40 first lap, 11:15 second lap.

Darrell Criswell said:

I've asked this question in the past and most people have
responded that Smart Cycling by Arnie Baker is the best. I
checked it and its quite good.

Smart Cycling and Bike Racing 101 aim to be comprehensive.
The Cyclist's Training Bible has nothing about equipment and
tactics, and only a little about technique, so it cannot
standalone. But it's training details are probably a little
better than the other two books.

JT

In article <40e3743a@darkstar>, Benjamin Weiner <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Benjamin Weiner wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But, based on last weekend's Pescadero RR, 4.2
watts/kg for 10 min isn't good enough...

My number came from a stopwatch and a topo map.

Ben climb time: 9:40 first lap, 11:15 second lap.

I think you could learn some things at analyticcycling.com
about how much your bodyweight may, or may not matter on the
climbs you're talking about. You may be surprised to learn
that watts/kg isn't as important as you might think on
climbs less than 5% or even steeper. IOW, your total watts
can matter a lot, as well as your ability to be fresh before
the climbs and how well you recover after each climb.

-WG

In article <40e3743a@darkstar>, Benjamin Weiner <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Benjamin Weiner wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But, based on last weekend's Pescadero RR, 4.2
watts/kg for 10 min isn't good enough...

My number came from a stopwatch and a topo map.

Ben climb time: 9:40 first lap, 11:15 second lap.

I think you could learn some things at analyticcycling.com
about how much your bodyweight may, or may not matter on the
climbs you're talking about. You may be surprised to learn
that watts/kg isn't as important as you might think on
climbs less than 5% or even steeper. IOW, your total watts
can matter a lot, as well as your ability to be fresh before
the climbs and how well you recover after each climb.

-WG

In article <40e3743a@darkstar>, Benjamin Weiner <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Benjamin Weiner wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But, based on last weekend's Pescadero RR, 4.2
watts/kg for 10 min isn't good enough...

My number came from a stopwatch and a topo map.

Ben climb time: 9:40 first lap, 11:15 second lap.

I think you could learn some things at analyticcycling.com
about how much your bodyweight may, or may not matter on the
climbs you're talking about. You may be surprised to learn
that watts/kg isn't as important as you might think on
climbs less than 5% or even steeper. IOW, your total watts
can matter a lot, as well as your ability to be fresh before
the climbs and how well you recover after each climb.

-WG