Best book on training?

"Laz Miskowski" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

I ... would like to find a
book that gives good advice on training for speed.

All together now: Joe Friel's Cyclists Training Bible, VeloPress.

Quoted message said:

Also, can someone give me an idea of how fast/good one has to be to
not be completely embarrassed in a Cat 5 race? (I need a goal).
Thanks.

Find a club that races and that accepts new riders (ask at a local bike shop
if need be). Start riding with them on training rides. The jump from being
a strong recreational rider to a merely adequate racer is a bigger step than
you might think.

JF

In article <yGqEc.32100$l6.12354@clgrps12>, Jim Flom

Quoted message said:

"Laz Miskowski" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Also, can someone give me an idea of how fast/good one has to be to
not be completely embarrassed in a Cat 5 race? (I need a goal).
Thanks.

Find a club that races and that accepts new riders (ask at a local bike shop
if need be). Start riding with them on training rides. The jump from being
a strong recreational rider to a merely adequate racer is a bigger step than
you might think.

Do you have to be as fast as a "merely adequate racer" to be a Cat 5?

-WG

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Laz Miskowski) said:

I am a recreational cyclist, with higher aspirations, but not a lot of
time. I'm trying to maximize my training, and would like to find a
book that gives good advice on training for speed. I.e. intervals,
target heart zones, etc.

Also, can someone give me an idea of how fast/good one has to be to
not be completely embarrassed in a Cat 5 race? (I need a goal).
Thanks.

TT times are a really good index for basic fitness within a category.

Here's some 10k TT results, on a flat out-and-back course, in what I
believe were good conditions. The "C" group riders are effectively Cat
5s and maybe Cat 4s.

http://www.escapevelocity.bc.ca/ss2004_results.html

The short answer from these results is that if you find you can TT 10k
in 17-18 minutes, you'll probably be able to hang onto a Cat 5 pack. If
you can TT 10k in about 15 minutes (40 km/h) you're probably in shape to
really do something in a Cat 5 race.

If you're taking more than 20 minutes to do a 10 k TT, train harder.
Fast distance runners can do 10 k in less than 30 minutes, and it's bad
to be slower than a person without a bicycle.

BTW, the guys who won that race on the tandem are an interesting pair.
The captain is a local pretty fast guy, but the stoker is blind. He's
also one of the fastest blind riders in the country.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine/wiredcola/
President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

Ryan Cousineau said:

BTW, the guys who won that race on the tandem are an interesting pair.
The captain is a local pretty fast guy, but the stoker is blind. He's
also one of the fastest blind riders in the country.

He's blindingly fast?

"warren" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Laz Miskowski" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Also, can someone give me an idea of how fast/good one has to be to
not be completely embarrassed in a Cat 5 race?

< Jim Flom's helpful response snipped >

Do you have to be as fast as a "merely adequate racer" to be a Cat 5?

The question is, does Laz, who simply hopes not to be completely
embarrassed?

Welcome to the world of amateur snobbery, Laz. The logic goes something
like this: you're not a real (let alone a "merely adequate"😉 racer until
you're a Cat ___ (fill in the blank with anything except a 5 (or 4, or 3,
etc., depending on who you're talking to). Once you are encouraged that you
can hang with the 5s, some 3s (& sophomoric 4s) will be looking down their
noses at you because, after all, you are not yet a 3 (or 4, or ...
whatever). You have fun. Do your time in the 5s, shave your legs, learn
what you can about team tactics (help your team-mates), and you will be a 4,
and maybe better. Meanwhile, you'll be passing all the recreational
cyclists when you're out riding, but greet them anyway. If you are blessed
along the way to meet a class act professional like a Tyler Hamilton (for
instance), i.e., someone who is accomplished, humble, encouraging, and
gracious, you'll get a glimpse of the best of bicycle racing. It will
inspire you. In the meantime, there are others who draw unimportant
distinctions. So make it fun. Keep your sense of humour. Get strong.
Beat somebody. In the end, it's whether you are having a good time.

JF

Laz Miskowski said:

I am a recreational cyclist, with higher aspirations, but not a lot of
time. I'm trying to maximize my training, and would like to find a
book that gives good advice on training for speed. I.e. intervals,
target heart zones, etc.

You can try reading Friel's book - there are other books like
those by Burke, Baker, etc. They all are imperfect, I guess,
but better than the stuff in magazines. Take Jim Flom's advice
about finding people to ride with. You also want to learn stuff
like how to be comfortable riding in a group.

Now the my-fatass part, really trolling for Connelly, Chung, and Coggan:

Quoted message said:

Also, can someone give me an idea of how fast/good one has to be to
not be completely embarrassed in a Cat 5 race? (I need a goal).

It's difficult to give speed goals due to the nature of bike
racing - it's not like running.

But, based on last weekend's Pescadero RR, 4.2 watts/kg for 10 min
isn't good enough.

IME,
Ben

Benjamin Weiner said:

Now the my-fatass part, really trolling for Connelly, Chung, and Coggan:

Quoted message said:

Also, can someone give me an idea of how fast/good one has to be to
not be completely embarrassed in a Cat 5 race? (I need a goal).

It's difficult to give speed goals due to the nature of bike
racing - it's not like running.

But, based on last weekend's Pescadero RR, 4.2 watts/kg for 10 min
isn't good enough.

Coggan doesn't like his power profiling table to be used this way but,
like http://www.ucolick.org/~bjw/misc/obesity_vote.gif, sometimes we can't
control the way that the stuff we put on the web is used:

http://www.peakscoachinggroup.com/powerprofiling.html

In article <40e27471$1@darkstar>, Benjamin Weiner

Quoted message said:

Laz Miskowski said:

I am a recreational cyclist, with higher aspirations, but not a lot of
time. I'm trying to maximize my training, and would like to find a
book that gives good advice on training for speed. I.e. intervals,
target heart zones, etc.

You can try reading Friel's book - there are other books like
those by Burke, Baker, etc. They all are imperfect, I guess,
but better than the stuff in magazines. Take Jim Flom's advice
about finding people to ride with. You also want to learn stuff
like how to be comfortable riding in a group.

Now the my-fatass part, really trolling for Connelly, Chung, and Coggan:

Quoted message said:

Also, can someone give me an idea of how fast/good one has to be to
not be completely embarrassed in a Cat 5 race? (I need a goal).

It's difficult to give speed goals due to the nature of bike
racing - it's not like running.

But, based on last weekend's Pescadero RR, 4.2 watts/kg for 10 min
isn't good enough.

Too bad you didn't ride with the women's 1,2 "pro" race. The winner's
time was 4 minutes slower than the men's 1,2,P winner and the men rode
28 miles farther (103 vs. 75).

-WG

In article <3ysEc.33172$l6.8803@clgrps12>, Jim Flom

Quoted message said:

"warren" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Laz Miskowski" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

> Also, can someone give me an idea of how fast/good one has to be to
> not be completely embarrassed in a Cat 5 race?

< Jim Flom's helpful response snipped >

Do you have to be as fast as a "merely adequate racer" to be a Cat 5?

The question is, does Laz, who simply hopes not to be completely
embarrassed?

Welcome to the world of amateur snobbery, Laz.

I guess I should have provided you with a ;-) so you'd be more aware of
the intent of my comment.

I also wouldn't use a term like "merely adequate racer" because that is
what you call amateur snobbery. Your reply below is more helpful.

-WG

Quoted message said:

The logic goes something
like this: you're not a real (let alone a "merely adequate"😉 racer until
you're a Cat ___ (fill in the blank with anything except a 5 (or 4, or 3,
etc., depending on who you're talking to). Once you are encouraged that you
can hang with the 5s, some 3s (& sophomoric 4s) will be looking down their
noses at you because, after all, you are not yet a 3 (or 4, or ...
whatever). You have fun. Do your time in the 5s, shave your legs, learn
what you can about team tactics (help your team-mates), and you will be a 4,
and maybe better. Meanwhile, you'll be passing all the recreational
cyclists when you're out riding, but greet them anyway. If you are blessed
along the way to meet a class act professional like a Tyler Hamilton (for
instance), i.e., someone who is accomplished, humble, encouraging, and
gracious, you'll get a glimpse of the best of bicycle racing. It will
inspire you. In the meantime, there are others who draw unimportant
distinctions. So make it fun. Keep your sense of humour. Get strong.
Beat somebody. In the end, it's whether you are having a good time.

JF

"warren" wrote...

Quoted message said:

I guess I should have provided you with a ;-) so you'd be more aware of
the intent of my comment.

I was actually caught off guard by the question, coming from you, Warren. I
just get a little tired of the snide remarks so I vented. I should've just
let it pass.

JF

In article <L7BEc.58343$E84.52992@edtnps89>, Jim Flom

Quoted message said:

"warren" wrote...

Quoted message said:

I guess I should have provided you with a ;-) so you'd be more aware of
the intent of my comment.

I was actually caught off guard by the question, coming from you, Warren. I
just get a little tired of the snide remarks so I vented. I should've just
let it pass.

Your "venting" provided the OP with some advice that will become
valuable as he wades into the arena of bike racing.

-WG

[email hidden] (Laz Miskowski) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I am a recreational cyclist, with higher aspirations, but not a lot of
time. I'm trying to maximize my training, and would like to find a
book that gives good advice on training for speed. I.e. intervals,
target heart zones, etc.

Also, can someone give me an idea of how fast/good one has to be to
not be completely embarrassed in a Cat 5 race? (I need a goal).
Thanks.

I think that CTS www.trainright.com is a good choice. for sport is is
like 40 bucks a month. and will give you highly effective no thought
training.

To make the jump to racing requires the following

1. A level of comfort in a pack. Racing is an order of magnitude
closer than group rides. your first race will be stressful, but you
get used to it and in no time your are that idiot who inserted himself
in a hole that wasn't there during your first race

2. Comfort averageing 30-35km an hour. i.e solidly aerobic.

3. the ability to jump to 50km to catch a group. and then quickly
settle back in. and reapeat again in 2:00 minutes.

If you can do these things. you have a good shot. not a lot of guys
who are suffering a little sit at the back which is the worst place to
be. try to be in at least the front half. you will work a lot less
hard as whiplash amplifies at the back. and you are far mor likely to
get stuck behind a guy who can't close the gap and have to do it
yourself.

obviously bike handling skills are emphasized more in crits and power
is emphasized more in RR's.

Bicycle Racing 101 by the Wenzels is also pretty good.

-Dion

"Laz Miskowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am a recreational cyclist, with higher aspirations, but not a lot of
time. I'm trying to maximize my training, and would like to find a
book that gives good advice on training for speed. I.e. intervals,
target heart zones, etc.

Also, can someone give me an idea of how fast/good one has to be to
not be completely embarrassed in a Cat 5 race? (I need a goal).
Thanks.

I've asked this question in the past and most people have responded
that Smart Cycling by Arnie Baker is the best. I checked it and its
quite good.

On 29 Jun 2004 17:20:35 -0700, [email hidden] (Laz Miskowski)

Quoted message said:

I am a recreational cyclist, with higher aspirations, but not a lot of
time. I'm trying to maximize my training, and would like to find a
book that gives good advice on training for speed. I.e. intervals,
target heart zones, etc.

Also, can someone give me an idea of how fast/good one has to be to
not be completely embarrassed in a Cat 5 race? (I need a goal).
Thanks.

Robert Chung said:

Benjamin Weiner wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Now the my-fatass part, really trolling for Connelly, Chung, and Coggan:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But, based on last weekend's Pescadero RR, 4.2 watts/kg for 10 min
isn't good enough.

Quoted message said:

Coggan doesn't like his power profiling table to be used this way but,
like http://www.ucolick.org/~bjw/misc/obesity_vote.gif, sometimes we can't
control the way that the stuff we put on the web is used:

Quoted message said:

http://www.peakscoachinggroup.com/powerprofiling.html

Yup, I have looked at that. One reason to troll for Coggan -
I'm curious about those numbers, and how old the data is.
It seems discrepant.

My number came from a stopwatch and a topo map.

Ben
climb time: 9:40 first lap, 11:15 second lap.

Darrell Criswell said:

I've asked this question in the past and most people have responded
that Smart Cycling by Arnie Baker is the best. I checked it and its
quite good.

Smart Cycling and Bike Racing 101 aim to be comprehensive. The
Cyclist's Training Bible has nothing about equipment and tactics, and
only a little about technique, so it cannot standalone. But it's
training details are probably a little better than the other two
books.

JT

In article <40e3743a@darkstar>, Benjamin Weiner <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Benjamin Weiner wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But, based on last weekend's Pescadero RR, 4.2 watts/kg for 10 min
isn't good enough...

My number came from a stopwatch and a topo map.

Ben
climb time: 9:40 first lap, 11:15 second lap.

I think you could learn some things at analyticcycling.com about how
much your bodyweight may, or may not matter on the climbs you're
talking about. You may be surprised to learn that watts/kg isn't as
important as you might think on climbs less than 5% or even steeper.
IOW, your total watts can matter a lot, as well as your ability to be
fresh before the climbs and how well you recover after each climb.

-WG

In article <40e3743a@darkstar>, Benjamin Weiner <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Benjamin Weiner wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But, based on last weekend's Pescadero RR, 4.2 watts/kg for 10 min
isn't good enough...

My number came from a stopwatch and a topo map.

Ben
climb time: 9:40 first lap, 11:15 second lap.

I think you could learn some things at analyticcycling.com about how
much your bodyweight may, or may not matter on the climbs you're
talking about. You may be surprised to learn that watts/kg isn't as
important as you might think on climbs less than 5% or even steeper.
IOW, your total watts can matter a lot, as well as your ability to be
fresh before the climbs and how well you recover after each climb.

-WG

In article <40e3743a@darkstar>, Benjamin Weiner <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Benjamin Weiner wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But, based on last weekend's Pescadero RR, 4.2 watts/kg for 10 min
isn't good enough...

My number came from a stopwatch and a topo map.

Ben
climb time: 9:40 first lap, 11:15 second lap.

I think you could learn some things at analyticcycling.com about how
much your bodyweight may, or may not matter on the climbs you're
talking about. You may be surprised to learn that watts/kg isn't as
important as you might think on climbs less than 5% or even steeper.
IOW, your total watts can matter a lot, as well as your ability to be
fresh before the climbs and how well you recover after each climb.

-WG