Ben Nevis risk assesment

Bassosa said:

- 2 males (21 and 24) both in peak condition, good strong
legs etc. No injuries
- No climbing experience, never been on a mountain (we're
from Holland!)

Then it'll be bloody hard work. The only good way to be in
condition to get up big hills is to go up big hills. But if
you're reasonably fit you should get up, hard work or not.

Quoted message said:

- No climbing equipment, just our normal clothes and sturdy
(broken-in) shoes,maybe an extra sweater, warm jacket

You should have a waterproof/windproof jacket and make sure
your trousers won't get nasty if they get wet. Track suit
bottoms are fine, jeans are awful if they get wet. Take some
food and drink, expect your feet to get wet.

Quoted message said:

What are our chances of climbing this mountain, is it
going to be cold on top, is it hard to keep to the route?
Is there snow on top? Do it or don't do it? All
informations is very welcome.

It may be cold on top, or it may be lovely. There will very
probably be some snow, but not necessarily enough to make a
big difference to you. If the weather is okay the route is
easy to see, if it isn't it can be very hard. In short, it's
not a very predictable place. By all means start, but be
prepared to turn around and you ought to have a map with
compass and/or GPS and know how to use them.

For a lot of visitors it's just a long, tough walk, and
you should be up to that. But if the weather turns nasty
(and it might) then it can be *very* unpleasant and
potentially dangerous (there are cliffs close to the
summit that people have gone over in poor visibility, in
addition to the getting lost and hypothermic
possibilities). So just be prepared in case it /does/ turn
nasty and you should be okay.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

As always, good advice from Peter Clinch!

I'd emphasise the bit about being prepared to turn back.
This is often one of the hardest decision to make, but if
conditions start to get nasty, don't hesitate to turn back -
you can always take refuge in a pub (but forget the beer -
there's no decent beer brewed North of the Border!).

Regards: Jim Ford

In message <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Jim Ford said:

you can always take refuge in a pub (but forget the beer
- there's no decent beer brewed North of the Border!).

Deuchars IPA, Golden Promise, Red & Black Cuillin, Fraoich
etc. say you're wrong...

Black Isle Red Kite.

Jim Ford said:

you can always take refuge in a pub (but forget the beer -
there's no decent beer brewed North of the Border!).

Deuchars IPA, Golden Promise, Red & Black Cuillin, Fraoich
etc. say you're wrong...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

* Peter Clinch <[email hidden]> deigned to grace
uk.rec.walking
* with their presence by declaiming:

Quoted message said:

Jim Ford said:

you can always take refuge in a pub (but forget the beer
- there's no decent beer brewed North of the Border!).

Deuchars IPA, Golden Promise, Red & Black Cuillin, Fraoich
etc. say you're wrong...

O.K. - I'll try them next time I'm up. What put me off
was my cousin (in Carnoustie) said the nearest to
Bitter was Heavy - it's horrible and I vowed never
to try it again!

Regards: Jim Ford

Jim Ford said:

O.K. - I'll try them next time I'm up. What put me off was
my cousin (in Carnoustie) said the nearest to Bitter
was Heavy - it's horrible and I vowed never to try it
again!

There's 80 Shilling and there's 80 Shilling. If you judge
Black Sheep bitter by a pint of M&B's at a nondescript
pub[1] that may or may not be any good at keeping beer
that's hardly fair on Mr. Theakston, is it?

Caledonian 80 is a fair pint IMHO and Belhaven's okay if
it's been kept properly (for reference my desert island pint
is probably the Black Sheep Special). Some places just have
70 Shilling on anyway, almost all of which isn't worth
drinking IME and that's what you'll get in such places if
you order a "Heavy", though it generally refers to the 80.
The 70 is the equivalent of tat keg beer down south.

The Clachaig know their beers, and are rather handily places
for hillside exploration too. They actually have a beer
festival every year and always have a good selection on tap.

Don't pass over all the more unusual ales just because
they're not bitter. Fraoch is made from a (supposedly very
old) recipe with heather in and I think it's very good. The
same brewery also do brews with gooseberry, seaweed,
elderberries and pine shoots, all of which are very good
despite sounding a bit odd! (see
fraoch.comales.htmlOpen ↗ for more details). There
are plenty of other non-bitters that are well worth trying.
Younger's No. 3, Orkney Dark and Black Cuillin are all
black, full flavoured and (to my taste buds at least)
rather good.

Pete.

[1] what other sort of pub would stoop so low as to
serve M&B?
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Jim Ford <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

As always, good advice from Peter Clinch!

I'd emphasise the bit about being prepared to turn back.
This is often one of the hardest decision to make, but if
conditions start to get nasty, don't hesitate to turn back
- you can always take refuge in a pub (but forget the beer
- there's no decent beer brewed North of the Border!).

Oh i don't know about that the ale from the Orkneys always
featured highly on my must quaff list when i am north of
the border. But the best pub is back in Fort Bill and they
have a reasonable selection

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bassosa said:

- 2 males (21 and 24) both in peak condition, good
strong legs etc. No injuries
- No climbing experience, never been on a mountain
(we're from Holland!)

Then it'll be bloody hard work. The only good way to be
in condition to get up big hills is to go up big hills.
But if you're reasonably fit you should get up, hard
work or not.

Quoted message said:

- No climbing equipment, just our normal clothes and
sturdy
(broken-in) shoes,maybe an extra sweater, warm jacket

You should have a waterproof/windproof jacket and make
sure your trousers won't get nasty if they get wet. Track
suit bottoms are fine, jeans are awful if they get wet.
Take some food and drink, expect your feet to get wet.

Quoted message said:

What are our chances of climbing this mountain, is it
going to be cold on top, is it hard to keep to the
route? Is there snow on top? Do it or don't do it? All
informations is very welcome.

It may be cold on top, or it may be lovely. There will
very probably be some snow, but not necessarily enough
to make a big difference to you. If the weather is okay
the route is easy to see, if it isn't it can be very
hard. In short, it's not a very predictable place. By
all means start, but be prepared to turn around and you
ought to have a map with compass and/or GPS and know how
to use them.

For a lot of visitors it's just a long, tough walk, and
you should be up to that. But if the weather turns nasty
(and it might) then it can be *very* unpleasant and
potentially dangerous (there are cliffs close to the
summit that people have gone over in poor visibility, in
addition to the getting lost and hypothermic
possibilities). So just be prepared in case it /does/ turn
nasty and you should be okay.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382
640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
[email hidden] dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Indeed good advice. I just add three items. 1) Take the
tourist track, don't be hero's and avoid the Carn Mor Dearg
Arete. 2) Start early 9am-10am 3) In Dutch (sorry, don't
know the english words): krachttraining voor de vierhoofdige
dijbeenspier en de kuitspier.

P.S.If you don't have the proper map for the area at the
moment look at www.multimap.com and there is a good
Youth Hostel at the start of the track.

Theo (from Holland)

ted said:

Jim Ford <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

don't hesitate to turn back - you can always take refuge
in a pub (but forget the beer - there's no decent beer
brewed North of the Border!).

There is a pretty decent beer that isn't sold in the UK but
has spawned a whole genre in Belgium. Gordon Scotch Ale,
brewed in Edinburgh for John Martin of Antwerp, says this on
the back of the bottle:

De Gordon Scotch is de echte Schotse scotch, robuust zoals
haar land, mysterious zoals haar legenden, openhartig zoals
haar inwoners.

8.6% (hic!)

Quoted message said:

Oh i don't know about that the ale from the Orkneys always
featured highly on my must quaff list when i am north of
the border. But the best pub is back in Fort Bill and they
have a reasonable selection

The Grog and Gruel has the best beer in Fort William. Owned
by the same people as the Clachaig in Glen Coe.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the
"Westminster Gasworks"

Jim Ford <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

As always, good advice from Peter Clinch!

I'd emphasise the bit about being prepared to turn back.
This is often one of the hardest decision to make, but if
conditions start to get nasty, don't hesitate to turn back
- you can always take refuge in a pub (but forget the beer
- there's no decent beer brewed North of the Border!).

Regards: Jim Ford

Thats actually good advice for any hill walk - 2 weeks ago I
attempted the Ochill hills, but the cloud cover came down as
I was part way up The Nebit
- so I decided to turn back rather than walk into
possible trouble.

If in doubt turn back, you can always try the walk again.

--
Brian

Bassosa said:

Here are the facts:

- 2 males (21 and 24) both in peak condition, good strong
legs etc. No injuries
- No climbing experience, never been on a mountain (we're
from Holland!)
- No climbing equipment, just our normal clothes and
sturdy (broken-in) shoes,maybe an extra sweater, warm
jacket
- Probably a hangover, but were responsible,
intelligent guys

What are our chances of climbing this mountain, is it
going to be cold on top, is it hard to keep to the route?
Is there snow on top? Do it or don't do it? All
informations is very welcome.

To add to the sound advice elsewhere in the thread.

In my opinion Ben Nevis via the tourist path is a bit
boring. The tourist path is a long hard trudge up and then
back down again, passing dozens of people doing the same
route. There are nicer hills in the same area, with more
interesting routes; eg. the Mamore range to the south of Ben
Nevis. It won't be as busy, you'll have a nicer walk, more
variation in terrain, longer to look at the views from
summit ridges, and a chance of climbing more than one
mountain in a day.

So, unless you are determined that you must climb Ben Nevis,
I'd suggest looking at a few other mountains.

Wherever you go, the advice on gear, planning, food,
navigation, weather, knowing when you should turn back, etc.
all apply.

Nigel

--
NC - Webmaster for 2mm.org.uk2mm.org.ukOpen ↗ Replies to
newsgroup postings to the newsgroup please.

ted <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Jim Ford <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

As always, good advice from Peter Clinch!

I'd emphasise the bit about being prepared to turn back.
This is often one of the hardest decision to make, but if
conditions start to get nasty, don't hesitate to turn
back - you can always take refuge in a pub (but forget
the beer - there's no decent beer brewed North of the
Border!).

Oh i don't know about that the ale from the Orkneys
always featured highly on my must quaff list when i am
north of the border. But the best pub is back in Fort
Bill and they have a reasonable selection

I will try 'm all...

Thanks for the feedback all. Guess it's a go! We'll be fine
because we like a real challenge, we'll never give up unless
the weather gets really dodgy. I'll give you guys a full
report when I come back.

Cheers, Bas

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Then it'll be bloody hard work. The only good way to be
in condition to get up big hills is to go up big hills.
But if you're reasonably fit you should get up, hard
work or not.

I think aerobic fitness gained from whatever source will
transfer pretty well from one sport to another even if
you're using your muscles in a slightly different way. I'm a
daily cyclist but a very irregular runner and I find that
even if I haven't run anywhere for six months I can still go
straight out and do the same long hilly runs I used to
without suffering.

Besides the fairly obvious (although not in mist or if they're corniced)
hazards of the big cliffs to the north and east, the west side has the less
obvious hazard of Five Finger Gully. In poor visibility careful navigation
is required to avoid being lured onto an ever-steepening slope. For the
correct bearings to navigate see:

mountaineering-mountaineering-Open ↗
scotland.org.uk/safety/nevis_bearing.html

It should go without saying that you should have a good map
and compass and know how to use them

Munro Magic
munromagic.comMountainInfo.cfmOpen ↗ has
more information about the mountain and possible routes.

As the webcam visit-fortwilliam.co.ukwebcamOpen ↗ shows,
there's still some snow about, although I imagine it's now
in pretty poor condition.

The Tourist Path is a straightforward, if not very
interesting, walk but depending on the conditions it can be
hazardous - be careful and as others have suggested, don't
hesitate to turn back if it looks like becoming too
difficult or dangerous.

Howard Jones

"Bassosa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Here are the facts:

- 2 males (21 and 24) both in peak condition, good strong
legs etc. No injuries
- No climbing experience, never been on a mountain (we're
from Holland!)
- No climbing equipment, just our normal clothes and
sturdy (broken-in) shoes,maybe an extra sweater, warm
jacket
- Probably a hangover, but were responsible,
intelligent guys

What are our chances of climbing this mountain, is it
going to be cold on top, is it hard to keep to the route?
Is there snow on top? Do it or don't do it? All
informations is very welcome.

Thanks and regards, Bas

Quoted message said:

What are our chances of climbing this mountain, is it going
to be cold on top, is it hard to keep to the route? Is
there snow on top? Do it or don't do it? All informations
is very welcome.

You don't say when. Assume that it is going to be cold, and
that there will be snow on the top, and you probably won't
be disappointed! It has been snowing up there the last day
or two, with cold overnight temperatures, and this weekend
is forecast further light snow showers with freezing level
below the summit.

The web cams at ukweatherworld.co.ukthreadOpen ↗
view.asp?threadid=9539&posts=1 can give you some idea of
what to expect, though the summit is usually hidden in
cloud, and assuming you're taking the tourist route, this
isn't visible in the view shown. There is more chance of
snow on that route during the spring/summer than on the
north face routes.

The main thing to be careful of is the descent. There is a
lot of scope for walking off cliffs or falling down
gullies, if the weather is poor and you can't see where
you're going. And following the obvious trail of footprints
in the snow isn't guaranteed to help, as there will be
lines of footprints leading from climbing routes, and to
climbers' descents.

So make sure you have a map and compass and know how
to use them.

Personally I'd avoid the tourist track as it's a bit of a
boring slog and you don't get to see the hill at its best.
However, I've been walking up hills for almost 20 years and
am a lot fussier about such things than I used to be! As
it's your first, I think you'll find the 'easy' route enough
of a challenge :-)

HTH and have fun

Simon

IHi I was up there on the 212 of this month and there was
still 3 foot of snow above 2,000 feet (in places) Cornices
were still BIG and very dangerous, keep away.

Had a total whiteuot half a mile from the top and had to
follow a bearing... getting off the hill is just as bad. 4
Hours up and 4 hours down...

If you are not fit and kitted out dont even try... work up
to it or wait until the snow has gone at least

Steve

"Bassosa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Here are the facts:

- 2 males (21 and 24) both in peak condition, good strong
legs etc. No injuries
- No climbing experience, never been on a mountain (we're
from Holland!)
- No climbing equipment, just our normal clothes and
sturdy (broken-in) shoes,maybe an extra sweater, warm
jacket
- Probably a hangover, but were responsible,
intelligent guys

What are our chances of climbing this mountain, is it
going to be cold on top, is it hard to keep to the route?
Is there snow on top? Do it or don't do it? All
informations is very welcome.

Thanks and regards, Bas

In message <[email hidden]>

Steve Tipper said:

If you are not fit and kitted out dont even try... work up
to it or wait until the snow has gone at least

I resent the fit bit! I wasn't particularly fit when I
went up Ben Nevis, although I'd done a fair bit of
walking. It just takes longer, that's all. I suppose I
probably had a bit of muscle in my legs, though, which I
think is what counts. Getting puffed going up a hill will
slow you down, running out of strength in your legs could
leave you in trouble.

It'll probably be a lot harder if the weather isn't good,
too. The one time I've been up people were standing around
the top in shorts and T-shirts, complaining about the heat,
but I'm pretty sure that's far from typical!

--
Simon Challands, creator of The Acorn Elite Pages:
elite.acornarcade.comelite.acornarcade.comOpen ↗ Three Dimensional Encounters:
3dfrontier.fsnet.co.uk3dfrontier.fsnet.co.ukOpen ↗

On 26 Apr 2004 11:19:38 GMT, Jim Ford <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

As always, good advice from Peter Clinch!

I'd emphasise the bit about being prepared to turn back.
This is often one of the hardest decision to make, but if
conditions start to get nasty, don't hesitate to turn back
- you can always take refuge in a pub (but forget the beer
- there's no decent beer brewed North of the Border!).

A few years out of date I am glad to say.. Mind in common
with England, most pubs seem to struggle to sell good beer,
but with Orkney, Skye , Black Isle and others about, the
beer is there

Richard Webb

Quoted message said:

O.K. - I'll try them next time I'm up. What put me off was
my cousin (in Carnoustie) said the nearest to Bitter
was Heavy - it's horrible and I vowed never to try it
again!

Wise!

But times have changed for the better

Richard Webb