Doug Freese said:"SwStudio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:"Dave Hamilton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:I usually wusse out at zero but shouldn't .. describe what layers you
use for sub zero .. what about high winds and windchill? My problems
gloves and neck
Well, there's a few people on here that have a lot of knowledge
with that sort of stuff. I don't consider myself a cold-weather
running expert and don't really follow the science too much -
I've noticed a few things that work for me.
Dot probably the onbe that can address the cold better than most.
Right - in a t-shirt 🙁
Oh, you said "cold", I thought you said "Alaska winter". 😉
(While I did run in a short-sleeve t-shirt for about 15-20 min today,
long sleeves would've been better, but it was t-shirt or lt weight
stretch fleece. I had already hiked for a little over an hour up/down
part of Lazy Mtn, during which I was sure all skin was covered in case
of wipe out on extended slopes in the snow. I'm taking poles with me
next time. Afterward, I was down running on some flat trails at base and
decided the layer had to go. It was about 30+F.)
To answer the question seriously.
Everyone's different and it probably depends on cold adaptation. I
always wear a short-sleeve synthetic t-shirt as bottommost layer.
I may use a powerdry (REI) (or similar synthetic) long-sleeve shirt down
to freezing or thereabouts. I've got a light weight stretch-fleece that
I use down to 0F. If there's any breeze or if it's dark (no warming
solar radiation), I may use long sleeve base layer underneath. That's as
cold as I've been able to test since I've had these new layers, but when
it gets to maybe -10F or colder, I may need to add another layer or use
a heavier one (Sporthill catalyst) - or whatever 2nd insulating layer
you may have. I think that may take me down to -20F, probably lower with
a shell - but I haven't had a chance to test.
Legs use sporthill xc pants, usually with powerdry base layer
(valhalla). Subzero F or winds, I may use a slightly heavier synthetic
tights (sierra designs). I have windpants that I take for emergencies,
but I rarely use them initially since they've been too warm, even with a
wind blowing. I'm most likely to use them when snowshoe running in fresh
snow because the snow kicks up my back - or some adventure where I may
end up in the snow - face plant or sliding down hillside.
General tips:
Use synthetics, wool, or silk (I don't have much experience with silk) -
not cotton.
If you layer, try to have your outer layers larger so they don't bind.
Stretchy fabrics allow more motion so you don't get the Michelin man
look / feeling. This usually isn't stretchy like tights, but just enough
stretch to allow motion around joints.
Be sure not to layer too tightly or this will restrict circulation.
Some people like clothes that have mesh on back or windproof / resistant
only on front or more breathable fabrics on under arms. Where I am, it's
not unusual to have 20 mph or stronger winds - from multiple directions,
as I follow a twisty trail or go out/back or the wind direction changes.
I really hate those leakages, but they're fine on a calm day.
I prefer to use breathable base / insulating layers and a separate
windshell that is windproof (pertex is one such lightweight fabric that
I'm testing now - shell is 3.5 oz advertised). This gives me more
options than a single combined garment for about the same weight. I
generally don't use gore-tex cuz it's too bulky and a real pain if I
have to peel it. My outer shell (water resistant, at best, I think, but
not tested) is windproof. Test in store by holding single layer of
fabric to your mouth and trying to blow through it from outside in.
(REI salesperson taught me this trick - you'll quickly see the
difference between windproof and windresistant materials.)
I like decent hoods on my shells that come up around chin, preferably up
higher, so I can seal myself in during some of the windier days (been
known to use goggles on the 50mph days with debris flying through air).
I rarely wear hoods, but find them life-savers when conditions are right.
Pockets are another issue for personal preference, whether you need to
hold snacks, peeled layers (hat, mittens), light, maps, etc.
Headgear - neoprene earband, synthetic watch cap, or balaclava -
sometimes pulling balaclava over mouth when subzero F. You lose about
40% of heat through head and neck - easy place to add/subtract layers
for temperature regulation. That's why I like the hoods to seal in the
heat if needed.
Things that may affect what works for you (besides basic physiology and
effort levels): temperature, wind, humidity, dark/light. You'd be
surprised how warm a blazing sun on fresh, bright snow can make a day
feel, even if it's near 10F / -12C. Similarly when the sun drops below
the horizon, it feels much chillier (faster than it affects air
temperature). Temperature is only part of the story.
I've just tried to provide some suggestions. Everyone really is
different (read Armstrong's chapter on cold in his book Performing in
Extreme Environments if you don't believe me), and there really isn't
one solution that works for all - or even the same person under
seemingly similar conditions on different day. You'll have to experiment
and see what works for you.
While there's some nice techie gear out there, there's no real need to
start with that until you know what you need. I tend to buy from outdoor
stores since that gear is usually designed for people out in the cold
for many hours, possibly in remote locations, which resembles my needs.
I've gotten some of my starting layers on closeouts at
www.campmor.com (duofold has worked well)
www.sierratradingpost.com (high quality gear with substantial closeout
sales if you can find what you want - I started with duofold and rei,
then watched here and elsewhere for improvements)
www.rei.com
http://www.mec.ca/index.html (I haven't bought anything here, but many
here have)
I've even gotten gear at Wal-Mart, although it's usually summer gear.
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:The wind issue is always cancelled out for me if the last layer
is a good windproof shell. Wear glasses to stop the watering
eyes.
I happen to use Gortex
I've worked my way down from Gortex jacket weighing close to a couple
pounds to a 3.5 oz shell. Doesn't have the warmth of Goretex, but I'm
finding I prefer insulation and shell separate. Doesn't have all the
goodies (fuller hood, more pockets) of my 11 oz shell, but it seems to
be earning it's place in my collection.
cuz I have it but yup a good shell to block the
Quoted message said:wind. I also layer my face with Vaseline.
I'll use vaseline many days, but I've found days when I need more than
that. I started out the other night with vaseline and a shell with hood.
I hadn't gone about 100 m when I decided to head back to car and get
balaclava. I used that off and on over mouth the entire run - just too
cool around face without it. Thermometer said about 0F, but other
thermometers were closer to -10F and it felt calm. I've run several
daytime runs at 0F with out balaclava. Not sure if humidity or what.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:For neck, wear a scarf. I have a nice technical fabric one but
I'm sure any old scarf would do, really.
I also carry a scarf but not to keep my neck warm but to cover my chin
if needed. I didn't need it yesterday.
balaclava, although I've used scarf in past
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:For hands, get the mittens with the little removable finger-tip
part. You know, the kind that folds back when your fingers
get too hot or sweaty. You can regulate body temp pretty
well through venting in this manner.
I have a pair of big bulky mittens with a wind breaker surface and I
have not had cold hands ever since I got them.
I just use my child-size snow mittens 😉
Actually, I found a couple pairs of reasonably priced ($15, $10, iirc)
windproof mittens this fall - adult size, both men's and women's - in
local outdoor stores. But it hasn't been cold yet to use them. (I have
no idea how to judge mitten sizes so am only comfortable trying them on
to be sure I can get in them and they're not too bulky.)
Quoted message said:
Time to go out and shovel some of the last 6 inches on snow. Looking
pretty nasty and very windy out there - I'm glad I got my long one in
yesterday before the snow hit. I may pull a Lance today and hide under
my blanket.
Geez, what a waste of good snow 😉
Dot
--
"You try to slow down and enjoy it. You try to look at the scenery. But
your brain can kind of go blank. All you want to do is tell your feet to
keep working."
-Cedar Petrosius, women's winner 2004 Matanuska Peak Challenge (14mi,
9000ft up and down)
