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Beginner - Running without a HRM

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
8 August 2004
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18 August 2004
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NewsBirdie
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  1. I started running about 3 months ago. I run between 1-3 times a week
    (3 is my goal). My average run lasts about 30 minutes. I've started
    taking my pulse and the last few times it was 168 (taken with my
    fingers on my neck). I'm 31, in relatively good shape, weigh 72kg
    (158 pounds). I just took my pulse while sitting here searching this
    group and it was 72. The basic calculations (I know they're not
    accurate) give me a MHR of 190. So this means I'm running at 88%,
    which from my reading seems to be a little high. My goal is twofold:
    Combat stress and burn up some body fat.

    My question is should I be worrying about my MHR? Should I just run
    my 30 minutes and enjoy myself? Should I try slowing down a bit and
    walking during my run to keep my HR lower?

    I've been researching the HRM watches and I'm interested, but I'm
    afraid it'll just be a gadget that I'll use for a few weeks and then
    no longer need. I've read lots of posts of people who love their HRM
    and others who say they don't use them much after the newness wears
    off. So I think the answer to the above questions will influence my
    decision. if I can just run at 88% (I assume this will go down a bit
    once I get in better shape) without worrying then maybe I don't need
    the HRM afterall. What do you think?

    Thanks
    Michael

  2. Just run for now. If you can carry on a conversation you are running at a
    good aerobic pace that is excellent for starting out.

    Enjoy it, maybe run more often to increase the rate of weight loss.

    "NewsBirdie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I started running about 3 months ago. I run between 1-3 times a week
    (3 is my goal). My average run lasts about 30 minutes. I've started
    taking my pulse and the last few times it was 168 (taken with my
    fingers on my neck). I'm 31, in relatively good shape, weigh 72kg
    (158 pounds). I just took my pulse while sitting here searching this
    group and it was 72. The basic calculations (I know they're not
    accurate) give me a MHR of 190. So this means I'm running at 88%,
    which from my reading seems to be a little high. My goal is twofold:
    Combat stress and burn up some body fat.

    My question is should I be worrying about my MHR? Should I just run
    my 30 minutes and enjoy myself? Should I try slowing down a bit and
    walking during my run to keep my HR lower?

    I've been researching the HRM watches and I'm interested, but I'm
    afraid it'll just be a gadget that I'll use for a few weeks and then
    no longer need. I've read lots of posts of people who love their HRM
    and others who say they don't use them much after the newness wears
    off. So I think the answer to the above questions will influence my
    decision. if I can just run at 88% (I assume this will go down a bit
    once I get in better shape) without worrying then maybe I don't need
    the HRM afterall. What do you think?

    Thanks
    Michael

  3. Forget that BS and just run.

  4. NewsBirdie said:

    I started running about 3 months ago. I run between 1-3 times a week
    (3 is my goal). My average run lasts about 30 minutes. I've started
    taking my pulse and the last few times it was 168 (taken with my
    fingers on my neck). I'm 31, in relatively good shape, weigh 72kg
    (158 pounds). I just took my pulse while sitting here searching this
    group and it was 72. The basic calculations (I know they're not
    accurate) give me a MHR of 190. So this means I'm running at 88%,
    which from my reading seems to be a little high. My goal is twofold:
    Combat stress and burn up some body fat.

    The "basic calculations" aren't all that reliable. As long as you run at an
    aerobic pace, you're fine. This is usually described as "conversational", but
    that term is unclear -- you can still carry out a conversation between gasps
    at a fairly hard pace (even during a race).

    One clarifying example -- conversational pace is easy enough that you should be
    able to not just talk, but you should be able to sing to yourself (without
    getting out of tune too much). In other words, you should be able to breathe
    between talking, as opposed to fumbling for words between gasps.

    Quoted message said:

    My question is should I be worrying about my MHR? Should I just run
    my 30 minutes and enjoy myself? Should I try slowing down a bit and
    walking during my run to keep my HR lower?

    It's true that if you adhere strictly to heart rate conventions, you may have
    to go really slowly, or just walk. But it's not necessary to adhere to this
    IMO. Just maintain a conversational pace (as described above).

    Quoted message said:

    I've been researching the HRM watches and I'm interested, but I'm
    afraid it'll just be a gadget that I'll use for a few weeks and then
    no longer need. I've read lots of posts of people who love their HRM
    and others who say they don't use them much after the newness wears
    off. So I think the answer to the above questions will influence my
    decision. if I can just run at 88% (I assume this will go down a bit
    once I get in better shape) without worrying then maybe I don't need
    the HRM afterall. What do you think?

    I don't think you need a HRM (in fact I don't think anyone needs one)

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi
    http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

  5. [email hidden] (NewsBirdie) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    I started running about 3 months ago. I run between 1-3 times a week
    (3 is my goal). My average run lasts about 30 minutes. I've started
    taking my pulse and the last few times it was 168 (taken with my
    fingers on my neck). I'm 31, in relatively good shape, weigh 72kg
    (158 pounds). I just took my pulse while sitting here searching this
    group and it was 72. The basic calculations (I know they're not
    accurate) give me a MHR of 190. So this means I'm running at 88%,
    which from my reading seems to be a little high. My goal is twofold:
    Combat stress and burn up some body fat.

    My question is should I be worrying about my MHR?

    No.

    Quoted message said:

    Should I just run
    my 30 minutes and enjoy myself?

    Yes.

    Quoted message said:

    Should I try slowing down a bit and
    walking during my run to keep my HR lower?

    Just do whatever feels comfortable. If one of your goals is to combat
    stress, you shouldn't turn your running into another stress factor by
    worrying about MHR. If your goal is to burn fat, it doesn't really
    matter if you run slow or fast or even walk, as long as you cover the
    distance.

    Quoted message said:

    I've been researching the HRM watches and I'm interested, but I'm
    afraid it'll just be a gadget that I'll use for a few weeks and then
    no longer need.

    If your only goals are to burn fat and reduce stress, any kind of
    watch is just a waste of money.

    Bjorn

  6. Donovan Rebbechi wrote in message ...

    Quoted message said:

    ......
    One clarifying example -- conversational pace is easy enough that you


    should be

    Quoted message said:

    able to not just talk, but you should be able to sing to yourself (without
    getting out of tune too much). In other words, you should be able to


    breathe

    Quoted message said:

    between talking, as opposed to fumbling for words between gasps.

    Singing to yourself - sounds funny but I think I've done that before. One
    way I measure effort is to try breathing through my nose for a brief time -
    that gives you a good measure of effort. If you can't do that for a few
    strides comfortably then you're probably going too fast.

    Quoted message said:

    ......
    I don't think you need a HRM (in fact I don't think anyone needs one)

    While nobody *needs* a HRM, it's a basic biofeedback device that does tell
    you alot about your training and recovery. It's especially useful for
    recovery days and for long efforts when you want to keep the effort low. I
    find it more useful on the bike than with running because on the bike you
    can be spinning along and really not feeling your effort level based on your
    speed. With running its also a great tool for doing tempo work and for
    keeping your HR under control on varied terrain like hilly trails. For
    basic, same pace running, its unnecessary.

    - Tony

    Quoted message said:


    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi
    http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

  7. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I've been researching the HRM watches and I'm interested, but I'm
    afraid it'll just be a gadget that I'll use for a few weeks and then
    no longer need.

    If your only goals are to burn fat and reduce stress, any kind of
    watch is just a waste of money.

    I wouldn't say that's my only goal. For now that's two of the main
    reasons I'm running. But I really enjoy it. After the first 15
    minutes the endorphins kick in and it feels really good. I love how I
    feel after a run. Plus I like to exercise (bike, tennis, weights).
    Running seems to give me the best workout in the shortest time.

    I think the watch will make it more fun & interesting, and if that
    encourages me to run more then that's great!

    -Michael

  8. In article <7BYRc.1119$Iv.1108@trndny03>,

    Tony' qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com said:
    Quoted message said:

    ......
    I don't think you need a HRM (in fact I don't think anyone needs one)

    While nobody *needs* a HRM, it's a basic biofeedback device that does tell
    you alot about your training and recovery. It's especially useful for
    recovery days and for long efforts when you want to keep the effort low. I
    find it more useful on the bike than with running because on the bike you
    can be spinning along and really not feeling your effort level based on your
    speed. With running its also a great tool for doing tempo work and for
    keeping your HR under control on varied terrain like hilly trails. For
    basic, same pace running, its unnecessary.

    For me, my HRM tells me when I'm not working hard enough. There are
    times when based on perceived effort I think I'm doing something and my
    HRM says 120. I know that I can go for several hours at 160, so I know I
    can push myself harder. Opposite of what you say, I find that I don't
    push myself hard enough on the bike in particular, but sometimes on the
    run as well.

    --Harold Buck

    "I used to rock and roll all night,
    and party every day.
    Then it was every other day. . . ."
    -Homer J. Simpson

  9. [email hidden] (NewsBirdie) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I've been researching the HRM watches and I'm interested, but I'm
    afraid it'll just be a gadget that I'll use for a few weeks and then
    no longer need.

    If your only goals are to burn fat and reduce stress, any kind of
    watch is just a waste of money.

    I wouldn't say that's my only goal. For now that's two of the main
    reasons I'm running. But I really enjoy it. After the first 15
    minutes the endorphins kick in and it feels really good. I love how I
    feel after a run.

    I know. I just came back from one, and I'm grinning from ear to ear.

    Quoted message said:

    Plus I like to exercise (bike, tennis, weights).
    Running seems to give me the best workout in the shortest time.

    I think the watch will make it more fun & interesting, and if that
    encourages me to run more then that's great!

    Whatever makes you happy is a good investment.

    Bjorn

  10. On 8/8/04 5:26 PM, in article
    [email hidden], "NewsBirdie"

    Quoted message said:

    I started running about 3 months ago. I run between 1-3 times a week
    (3 is my goal). My average run lasts about 30 minutes. I've started
    taking my pulse and the last few times it was 168 (taken with my
    fingers on my neck). I'm 31, in relatively good shape, weigh 72kg
    (158 pounds). I just took my pulse while sitting here searching this
    group and it was 72. The basic calculations (I know they're not
    accurate) give me a MHR of 190. So this means I'm running at 88%,
    which from my reading seems to be a little high. My goal is twofold:
    Combat stress and burn up some body fat.

    My question is should I be worrying about my MHR? Should I just run
    my 30 minutes and enjoy myself? Should I try slowing down a bit and
    walking during my run to keep my HR lower?

    I've been researching the HRM watches and I'm interested, but I'm
    afraid it'll just be a gadget that I'll use for a few weeks and then
    no longer need. I've read lots of posts of people who love their HRM
    and others who say they don't use them much after the newness wears
    off. So I think the answer to the above questions will influence my
    decision. if I can just run at 88% (I assume this will go down a bit
    once I get in better shape) without worrying then maybe I don't need
    the HRM afterall. What do you think?

    Thanks
    Michael

    I'm new to this group, but I've been running for several years now (did
    five miles today, in fact). Never taken my pulse. I fairly frequently note
    my rate (miles/minute), but that's it. I'd also be curious as to whether its
    important or not.

  11. Quoted message said:

    I'm new to this group, but I've been running for several years now (did
    five miles today, in fact). Never taken my pulse. I fairly frequently note
    my rate (miles/minute), but that's it. I'd also be curious as to whether its
    important or not.

    Absolutely not, unless you are an elite runner. Apparently it only becomes
    important to others AFTER they spend a few hundred dollars on a HRM, then it
    suddenly matters. If you never thought about it before, make this your 1st and
    last time.

  12. SzaszFan said:

    I'm new to this group, but I've been running for several years now
    (did
    five miles today, in fact). Never taken my pulse. I fairly frequently
    note my rate (miles/minute), but that's it. I'd also be curious as to
    whether its important or not.

    IMO, you can greatly improve your running by monitoring your heart rate
    and using that data to make sure you are running at the proper intensity.
    for that day. This is all part of the "multispeed approach" to training.

    The different speeds are:

    1. basic speed - improve leg turnover and form
    2. repetitions - 2:00 to 6:00 @ 3k to 5k race pace - improve maximum
    oxygen uptake (VO2 max)
    3. tempo runs - 20:00 to 40:00 @ 10 mi race pace - delay lactic acid
    buildup (LT)
    4. long runs - build endurance
    5. recovery runs - to allow top effort on hard days, keep from
    overtraining.

    Each speed has a heart rate range associated with it. This is based on
    your maximal heart rate and your resting heart rate.

    Depending on where you are in your training and experience you may not
    need to run in all 5 of these zones. Most people would benefit from at
    least running in zones 4 and 5, then gradually adding zone 3 followed by
    zone 2 as part of a race preparation phase.

    You can't improve on all aspects of your physiology at the same time.
    Neither can you ignore any type if you want to race to your potential.
    The trick is to find the proper proportion of each component for your
    goal race. The best way to make sure you are putting forth the correct
    intensity is through HRM training. There are some runners that can do
    this purely by feel, without an HRM. Personally, I'd rather make sure
    that I'm training at the correct intensity by using an HRM.

    Phil M.

    --
    If you can empty your own boat
    Crossing the river of the world,
    No one will oppose you,
    No one will seek to harm you. -Chuang Tzu

  13. Quoted message said:

    IMO,

    He is an idiot.

    Quoted message said:

    you can greatly improve your running by monitoring your heart rate
    and using that data to make sure you are running at the proper intensity.
    for that day.

    Or you can use two fingers across your wrist, and learn to listen to your body
    instead.

    Quoted message said:

    This is all part of the "multispeed approach" to training

    Of course if you are just trying to be healthy, you can avoid inevitable
    injurys (by this jerks method) by just running according to how you feel that
    day. And the best part is it's FREE!

  14. In article <[email hidden]>,

    (TheBillRodgerz) said:

    Of course if you are just trying to be healthy, you can avoid inevitable
    injurys (by this jerks method) by just running according to how you feel that
    day. And the best part is it's FREE!

    And if I did that, I'd put in a lot of junk miles because it turns out
    that I can usually run a lot faster than I think I can, and the HRM
    tells me when I can run harder even though I think I'm already running
    hard.

    Look, it's a tool. Choose to use it, or not, but don't badmouth people
    who find it useful.

    --Harold Buck

    "I used to rock and roll all night,
    and party every day.
    Then it was every other day. . . ."
    -Homer J. Simpson

  15. Quoted message said:

    I'm new to this group, but I've been running for several years now (did
    five miles today, in fact). Never taken my pulse. I fairly frequently note
    my rate (miles/minute), but that's it. I'd also be curious as to whether its
    important or not.

    Only if it is zero!

  16. One does not NEED a HRM to follow the plan below.
    "Phil M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    SzaszFan said:

    I'm new to this group, but I've been running for several years now
    (did
    five miles today, in fact). Never taken my pulse. I fairly frequently
    note my rate (miles/minute), but that's it. I'd also be curious as to
    whether its important or not.

    IMO, you can greatly improve your running by monitoring your heart rate
    and using that data to make sure you are running at the proper intensity.
    for that day. This is all part of the "multispeed approach" to training.

    The different speeds are:

    1. basic speed - improve leg turnover and form
    2. repetitions - 2:00 to 6:00 @ 3k to 5k race pace - improve maximum
    oxygen uptake (VO2 max)
    3. tempo runs - 20:00 to 40:00 @ 10 mi race pace - delay lactic acid
    buildup (LT)
    4. long runs - build endurance
    5. recovery runs - to allow top effort on hard days, keep from
    overtraining.

    Each speed has a heart rate range associated with it. This is based on
    your maximal heart rate and your resting heart rate.

    Depending on where you are in your training and experience you may not
    need to run in all 5 of these zones. Most people would benefit from at
    least running in zones 4 and 5, then gradually adding zone 3 followed by
    zone 2 as part of a race preparation phase.

    You can't improve on all aspects of your physiology at the same time.
    Neither can you ignore any type if you want to race to your potential.
    The trick is to find the proper proportion of each component for your
    goal race. The best way to make sure you are putting forth the correct
    intensity is through HRM training. There are some runners that can do
    this purely by feel, without an HRM. Personally, I'd rather make sure
    that I'm training at the correct intensity by using an HRM.

    Phil M.

    --
    If you can empty your own boat
    Crossing the river of the world,
    No one will oppose you,
    No one will seek to harm you. -Chuang Tzu

  17. Quoted message said:

    And if I did that, I'd put in a lot of junk miles because it turns out
    that I can usually run a lot faster than I think I can

    Then you're an idiot, who doesn't even know his own body. Probably because you
    have some dumbass machine to do it for you.

    Quoted message said:

    Look, it's a tool. Choose to use it, or not, but don't badmouth people
    who find it useful.

    Anyone, anywhere, who even LOOKS at a HRM, is an idiot.

  18. Why are you so angry, Bill? The HRM is simply a tool to help one
    judge intensity. We've used them on occaison to help develop
    awareness of pace/effort. They make us go hard on fast days and take
    it easy on slow days. Yes, over time one develops the awareness
    without needing one - but it does help. I think you shouldn't be so
    stiff about it. Ray just thinks you're weird. Peace and happy
    running.

    Sam and Ray

    On 12 Aug 2004 03:06:21 GMT, [email hidden] (TheBillRodgerz)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    And if I did that, I'd put in a lot of junk miles because it turns out
    that I can usually run a lot faster than I think I can

    Then you're an idiot, who doesn't even know his own body. Probably because you
    have some dumbass machine to do it for you.

    Quoted message said:

    Look, it's a tool. Choose to use it, or not, but don't badmouth people
    who find it useful.

    Anyone, anywhere, who even LOOKS at a HRM, is an idiot.

  19. NewsBirdie said:

    I started running about 3 months ago. I run between 1-3 times a week
    (3 is my goal). My average run lasts about 30 minutes. I've started
    taking my pulse and the last few times it was 168 (taken with my
    fingers on my neck). I'm 31, in relatively good shape, weigh 72kg
    (158 pounds). I just took my pulse while sitting here searching this
    group and it was 72. The basic calculations (I know they're not
    accurate) give me a MHR of 190. So this means I'm running at 88%,
    which from my reading seems to be a little high. My goal is twofold:
    Combat stress and burn up some body fat.

    My question is should I be worrying about my MHR?

    no - unless it's 0 or jumps erratically 😉

    Quoted message said:

    Should I just run
    my 30 minutes and enjoy myself?

    yes, esp. if you're running for stress relief

    Quoted message said:

    Should I try slowing down a bit and
    walking during my run to keep my HR lower?

    if you want. I'd pay more attention to breathing and whether you can
    carry on a conversation in complete sentences than heart rate.

    Quoted message said:


    I've been researching the HRM watches and I'm interested, but I'm
    afraid it'll just be a gadget that I'll use for a few weeks and then
    no longer need.

    Depends if you're a gadget freak or not 😉

    Quoted message said:

    I've read lots of posts of people who love their HRM
    and others who say they don't use them much after the newness wears
    off. So I think the answer to the above questions will influence my
    decision. if I can just run at 88% (I assume this will go down a bit
    once I get in better shape) without worrying then maybe I don't need
    the HRM afterall. What do you think?

    No one "needs" a hrm or a watch for that matter. The basics of running
    are to put on good running shoes for you and your terrain, and go run.

    I train weirdly compared to everyone else here, but here's what works
    for me. I run for fun and to relax, but also to be challenged (= I like
    hilly trails). I was totally clueless about how to train, discovered hrm
    and accompanying books, got caught in the newbie's dilemma of how do I
    determine max hr if I'm not supposed to be doing speed work yet, don't
    have a 10k pace/effort, and the formulas are worthless, etc. Standard
    training programs worked fine in spring (snowless), but broke down badly
    when we got the first snow and ice in October and it was difficult to do
    harder runs (Alaska).

    As I learned more about training, I realized most workouts (at least the
    ones I was reading) had more to do with LT/VT (lactic / ventilatory
    thresholds) or VO2max rather than max hr. (There's some older posts that
    deal with LT/VT.) Most beginner runners are probably going to be
    training easy (conversational pace - complete sentences), aerobic speed
    (the term I learned, and is where "conversation" becomes broken into
    phrases), and above LT (talking is very difficult). Keep in mind that
    LT/VT are zones so there's no exact hr number or % for them. But if you
    are running up a steep enough hill, you *will* know when you transition
    if you're paying attention at all to body signals. It's not precise, but
    it works well for beginners, you don't need to listen for beeps or watch
    hrm so you can keep eyes on trail, etc. I found hrm respond too slowly
    to changes to be able to use them on the hills I run. Given all the
    approximations with hrm training for beginners (max hr and the
    percents), I think there's more problems with hrm training for beginners
    than using conversation (easy to talk in complete sentences, phrases,
    gasping for breath when much higher).

    Another way of logging runs is by perceived effort, for which there are
    several formal scales, none of which really made sense to me, but others
    use them. I tend to have a bias toward continuous data like hr, rather
    than categorical data.

    That said, I run (also mt bike, xc ski, and hike) with a downloadable
    hrm most of the time, but only use it as a backup to feeling, based
    mainly on ease/difficulty in talking (singing or whistling). To me,
    downloading the data and checking for patterns has helped me spot some
    weak points and monitor progress. While I can run just fine without it,
    I do miss the data analysis (my batteries died about a month ago and am
    waiting for a newer model to become more common before upgrading).

    So no, you don't need a hrm or a watch (except maybe to tell when it's
    time to come home). But if you like to process data and/or like techie
    things, you might want one. But it sounds like you're not that type.

    Remember that running is fun and do whatever works for you to keep it
    that way.

    Dot

  20. Quoted message said:

    Ray just thinks you're weird.

    A [censored] who thinks I'm weird? That's a hoot.

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