Beginner road-bike recommendation

Quoted message said:

Live in NYC and I would like to start biking for fitness reasons,
meaning I'll be doing most of my riding in Central Park.

With that said, hoping I can get a few recommendations on bikes for a
guy like me who's interested in road riding: 6'2" and 200lbs. Not much
into mountain biking--just road/street.

Guy in a bike shop suggested a Specialized Langster--single gear.
Seems like it would get me in good shape, but couldn't I just buy a
bike with gears and keep it in one gear to mimic a single-gear bike?

Anyway, any suggestions/recommendations are welcome.

Thanks in advance.

A single gear bike is a bit of a special interest bike. At 200lbs you
are pretty heavy and will want the option of some lower gears on the
hill at the north end of the park. Maybe someday you'll want a single
speed, but until you know that it could be a mistake that would make
you not ride as much as you would otherwise.

Any pre-built bike will probably have wheels too flimsy for your weight
and the conditions you will be riding in. You could just ignore that
and consider the wheels disposable and get some solid ones once you
ruin the ones that come with the bike, or you can try to get some good
ones from the start.

You'll know a good shop/salesperson when they take your concern about
wheel strength serioulsy and try to find a solution for you. A solution
other than just "oh, these will be fine!".

Ideally you'd want 32 or 36 spokes. Until you start losing competitions
because your wheels are too heavy/non-aero there is no point any using
anything less.

I'm 6'3", 225 and I used to live in NYC so I know the conditions.

If I were on a budget I'd just get whatever bike I could afford from
the nicest salesperson and just wait for the wheels to die before
replacing them. With more dough, I'd get good wheels made from the
start with 36 spokes.

Good luck!

Joseph

Thanks for the info, Joseph. My undestanding is that a great bike
could cost in the $thousands, but I'm thinking I could get by with a
budget of roughly $600-$700 to get started. Am I deluding myself?

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the info, Joseph. My undestanding is that a great bike
could cost in the $thousands, but I'm thinking I could get by with a
budget of roughly $600-$700 to get started. Am I deluding myself?

$600 or $700 is pushing it, but you certainly don't need to spend thousands. My
first (reasonably adequeate) road bike was $750 (Giant OCR2). My next (much
more suitable) bike was a Surly Crosscheck ($800). Honestly, your best bet is
to go ride a bunch of different bikes at the bike shop and see which ones in
your budget you like.

--
Dane Buson - [email hidden]
This planet has -- or rather had -- a problem, which was this: most of the
people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions
were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with
the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole
it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy. -- Douglas Adams

Quoted message said:

Live in NYC and I would like to start biking for fitness reasons,
meaning I'll be doing most of my riding in Central Park.

With that said, hoping I can get a few recommendations on bikes for a
guy like me who's interested in road riding: 6'2" and 200lbs. Not much
into mountain biking--just road/street.

Guy in a bike shop suggested a Specialized Langster--single gear.
Seems like it would get me in good shape, but couldn't I just buy a
bike with gears and keep it in one gear to mimic a single-gear bike?

Anyway, any suggestions/recommendations are welcome.

The Langster is a great recommendation as are a lot of street oriented
single speeds. The Redline 9*2*5 is another you should look at.

No need to pay for a bunch of gears that just get dragged along in
Manhattan's terrain. Keep it simple and save some bucks.

Make sure the shop sets you up with a proper gear ratio, something that
lets you spin on flat ground, don't have them gear ya too high.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the info, Joseph. My undestanding is that a great bike
could cost in the $thousands, but I'm thinking I could get by with a
budget of roughly $600-$700 to get started. Am I deluding myself?

A quick search in that price range turned up a Trek 1000 for $710 and
a Bianchi Brava for $730. I didn't find anyting cheaper that seemed
suitable.

http://www2.trekbikes.com/bikes/bike.php?bikeid=1413000&f=4
http://www.bianchiusa.com/06_brava.html

Both have 32 spoke wheels and fine spec. Pretty much the only thing
more money will get you is a lighter bike and a stiffer bike. As a
beginner, these things are not going to make a difference, and your
desires/preferences will develop over time so there is no real reason
to try to get a "better" bike now. If you have lots of money to spend
you could spend more, but it won't really make a difference, and then
you wouldn't have anything to look forward to for the future!

I've got about a $2,500 bike, but in all truthfulness, while I could
certainly tell the difference by feel from one of the ones I suggested,
it would make no real difference to my performance to use one. Putting
real nice tires on a cheaper bike would narrow the gap significantly.

Joseph

Quoted message said:

A single gear bike is a bit of a special interest bike. At 200lbs you
are pretty heavy and will want the option of some lower gears on the
hill at the north end of the park. Maybe someday you'll want a single
speed, but until you know that it could be a mistake that would make
you not ride as much as you would otherwise.

200 pounds is a normal weight for a 6' 2" and no need to recommend
gears as somebody's heavy.

Quoted message said:

Any pre-built bike will probably have wheels too flimsy for your weight
and the conditions you will be riding in.

Bogus. The Langster comes with 32H normal wheels. Have 'em tuned and
they'll be fine.

Quoted message said:

You'll know a good shop/salesperson when they take your concern about
wheel strength serioulsy and try to find a solution for you. A solution
other than just "oh, these will be fine!".

But they will be, if they're tuned up a bit.

Quoted message said:

Ideally you'd want 32 or 36 spokes. Until you start losing competitions
because your wheels are too heavy/non-aero there is no point any using
anything less.

Most bikes in the $600 range come with 32H wheels. It's the wannabe
racers from $1000 on up that start coming with stupid light wheels.

Nothing wrong with prebuilt wheels that get some lovin' and 32H with
today's parts is plenty unless you're a real clyde. I've ridden
thousands of miles on cheaper Mavic and Alex kit and have never had a
problem with things going out of true as long as I took time to touch
up the wheels.

landotter said:

Quoted message said:

A single gear bike is a bit of a special interest bike. At 200lbs you
are pretty heavy and will want the option of some lower gears on the
hill at the north end of the park. Maybe someday you'll want a single
speed, but until you know that it could be a mistake that would make
you not ride as much as you would otherwise.

200 pounds is a normal weight for a 6' 2" and no need to recommend
gears as somebody's heavy.

It's been years since I've ridden that particular hill, but IMO a 200lb
beginner will want some lowish gearing to get up it with some level of
enjoyment. A single speed might be fine, but it is a bit limiting and
since he is new he doesn't know what he wants to do yet, so more
options is better. I used to ride a track-bike 90% of the time in NYC
with a 48x16 or something like that, so I know it is certainly possible
and even pleasurable, but not necessarily for a beginner.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Any pre-built bike will probably have wheels too flimsy for your weight
and the conditions you will be riding in.

Bogus. The Langster comes with 32H normal wheels. Have 'em tuned and
they'll be fine.

Quoted message said:

You'll know a good shop/salesperson when they take your concern about
wheel strength serioulsy and try to find a solution for you. A solution
other than just "oh, these will be fine!".

But they will be, if they're tuned up a bit.

That's just it, they need to be tuned. So a shop that lets this be
known is providing a solution and listening to his needs.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ideally you'd want 32 or 36 spokes. Until you start losing competitions
because your wheels are too heavy/non-aero there is no point any using
anything less.

Most bikes in the $600 range come with 32H wheels. It's the wannabe
racers from $1000 on up that start coming with stupid light wheels.

After poking around I see that these bikes do come with 32. Most of my
experiences have been with more expensive bikes that as you say often
come with wheels not suitable for heavy riders.

Quoted message said:

Nothing wrong with prebuilt wheels that get some lovin' and 32H with
today's parts is plenty unless you're a real clyde. I've ridden
thousands of miles on cheaper Mavic and Alex kit and have never had a
problem with things going out of true as long as I took time to touch
up the wheels.

I agree, 32 should be fine for him if that is what a bike comes with.
If he is spec'ing his own wheels, no reason not to spec 36 just to be
sure.

Joseph

alias landotter said:

Quoted message said:

A single gear bike is a bit of a special interest bike. At 200lbs
you are pretty heavy and will want the option of some lower gears
on the hill at the north end of the park. Maybe someday you'll want
a single speed, but until you know that it could be a mistake that
would make you not ride as much as you would otherwise.

Quoted message said:

200 pounds is a normal weight for a 6' 2" and no need to recommend
gears as somebody's heavy.

I guess in the USA we have had inflation of normal weight as well as
in most other perceptions. 200 is a fairly heavy cross section for
that height.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Any pre-built bike will probably have wheels too flimsy for your
weight and the conditions you will be riding in.

Quoted message said:

Bogus. The Langster comes with 32H normal wheels. Have 'em tuned
and they'll be fine.

That all depends on what sort of riding is done. You might assume
sedentary cruising, or a latent desire to go places not seen from a
car. Country roads and fast descents require a sturdy bicycle and
wheels.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You'll know a good shop/salesperson when they take your concern
about wheel strength seriously and try to find a solution for
you. A solution other than just "oh, these will be fine!".

Quoted message said:

But they will be, if they're tuned up a bit.

I have no idea of what rims or spokes these are, so I can't comment on
the appropriateness of the wheels.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ideally you'd want 32 or 36 spokes. Until you start losing
competitions because your wheels are too heavy/non-aero there is no
point any using anything less.

Quoted message said:

Most bikes in the $600 range come with 32H wheels. It's the wannabe
racers from $1000 on up that start coming with stupid light wheels.

I've seen some fairly mundane and inexpensive bicycles alluding to
high performance by fewer spokes and wimpy hard saddles. I think a
beginner might do best with a reputable bicycle shop or a friend with
bicycle experience as a guide.

Quoted message said:

Nothing wrong with pre-built wheels that get some lovin' and 32H
with today's parts is plenty unless you're a real clyde. I've
ridden thousands of miles on cheaper Mavic and Alex kit and have
never had a problem with things going out of true as long as I took
time to touch up the wheels.

Your experience isn't the norm.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

A quick search in that price range turned up a Trek 1000 for $710 and
a Bianchi Brava for $730. I didn't find anyting cheaper that seemed
suitable.

Locally, Trek is running a promotion this weekend at one of our largest
dealers. If you are interested, you might check your nearby dealerships
to see if it is a national thing. Someone in my family bought a 1000
for $599 just a few months ago in a local 20% off sale.

Quoted message said:

alias landotter said:

Quoted message said:

A single gear bike is a bit of a special interest bike. At 200lbs
you are pretty heavy and will want the option of some lower gears
on the hill at the north end of the park. Maybe someday you'll want
a single speed, but until you know that it could be a mistake that
would make you not ride as much as you would otherwise.

Quoted message said:

200 pounds is a normal weight for a 6' 2" and no need to recommend
gears as somebody's heavy.

I guess in the USA we have had inflation of normal weight as well as
in most other perceptions. 200 is a fairly heavy cross section for
that height.

His BMI puts him in the 50th percentile (unless he's Mexican), but that
doesn't really tell us much. The real issue is it doesn't matter if
he's 200 pounds of fat or muscle. 200lbs is hard to lug up hills. If
he's all muscle and in shape he can do it with normal road gearing, if
he's fat and out of shape he needs low gearing. Either way a single
speed is probably not a good choice unless he knows for sure it will be
low enough and would otherwise be a suitable gear for the rest of his
riding, which as a beginner is impossible to know.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Any pre-built bike will probably have wheels too flimsy for your
weight and the conditions you will be riding in.

Quoted message said:

Bogus. The Langster comes with 32H normal wheels. Have 'em tuned
and they'll be fine.

That all depends on what sort of riding is done. You might assume
sedentary cruising, or a latent desire to go places not seen from a
car. Country roads and fast descents require a sturdy bicycle and
wheels.

And pot-holed NYC streets!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You'll know a good shop/salesperson when they take your concern
about wheel strength seriously and try to find a solution for
you. A solution other than just "oh, these will be fine!".

Quoted message said:

But they will be, if they're tuned up a bit.

I have no idea of what rims or spokes these are, so I can't comment on
the appropriateness of the wheels.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ideally you'd want 32 or 36 spokes. Until you start losing
competitions because your wheels are too heavy/non-aero there is no
point any using anything less.

Quoted message said:

Most bikes in the $600 range come with 32H wheels. It's the wannabe
racers from $1000 on up that start coming with stupid light wheels.

I've seen some fairly mundane and inexpensive bicycles alluding to
high performance by fewer spokes and wimpy hard saddles. I think a
beginner might do best with a reputable bicycle shop or a friend with
bicycle experience as a guide.

Quoted message said:

Nothing wrong with pre-built wheels that get some lovin' and 32H
with today's parts is plenty unless you're a real clyde. I've
ridden thousands of miles on cheaper Mavic and Alex kit and have
never had a problem with things going out of true as long as I took
time to touch up the wheels.

Your experience isn't the norm.

Going out of true is almost a non-issue compared to the main concern
for heavy riders of spokes breaking and the subsequent hassle.

Joseph

Quoted message said:

Your experience isn't the norm.

Quoted message said:

From what I've gathered from other riders that have bought bicycles

from the same shop I have, yes it is.

This same week you've made some outrageous claims about non-socketed
rims lifespan amongst other zingers. I've put 10s of thousands of miles
on a set of non socketed 36H rims, often carrying incredible loads of
groceries. Never a problem. Ask the guys at Rapid Transit in Chicago
how many wheel returns they get. It will be a very low number as they
take the time to make sure wheels go out the door in good shape.

Geez louise, you boys are a handful. I certainly appreciate the input,
though, as it's nice to see many sides of the same picture.

Regarding my weight, I might have an extra inch around the gut (no
exaggerating), but I mainly ride and race motocross, so I'm not in bad
shape but I could be in much better shape cardiovascularly as I only
get to ride my dirt bike once a week or so, hence I'd like a bike to
ride in Central Park early mornings.

Honestly, a single-gear bike may seem cool and fun, but I'll probably
go with something with gears, something fit for a beginner. Maybe one
of those road bikes that have straight mountainbike bars? [censored], I
gotta go to a few more bike shops and see what they have.

Any recos on the frame size? The Langster was a 58 cm frame and was
maybe 2" from my crotch. I heard that's about right.

Quoted message said:

Geez louise, you boys are a handful. I certainly appreciate the input,
though, as it's nice to see many sides of the same picture.

Regarding my weight, I might have an extra inch around the gut (no
exaggerating), but I mainly ride and race motocross, so I'm not in bad
shape but I could be in much better shape cardiovascularly as I only
get to ride my dirt bike once a week or so, hence I'd like a bike to
ride in Central Park early mornings.

Honestly, a single-gear bike may seem cool and fun, but I'll probably
go with something with gears, something fit for a beginner. Maybe one
of those road bikes that have straight mountainbike bars? [censored], I
gotta go to a few more bike shops and see what they have.

Any recos on the frame size? The Langster was a 58 cm frame and was
maybe 2" from my crotch. I heard that's about right.

I started back riding only a couple of years ago. I could handle a
Langster now, but am really glad I went with gears at the time. I'll
probably go with a Langster as a fun bike when my backup bike bites the
dust but will always have a regular bike as my daily driver.

Quoted message said:

Geez louise, you boys are a handful. I certainly appreciate the input,
though, as it's nice to see many sides of the same picture.

Regarding my weight, I might have an extra inch around the gut (no
exaggerating), but I mainly ride and race motocross, so I'm not in bad
shape but I could be in much better shape cardiovascularly as I only
get to ride my dirt bike once a week or so, hence I'd like a bike to
ride in Central Park early mornings.

Honestly, a single-gear bike may seem cool and fun, but I'll probably
go with something with gears, something fit for a beginner. Maybe one
of those road bikes that have straight mountainbike bars? [censored], I
gotta go to a few more bike shops and see what they have.

Drop bars are infinitely more comfy, though straight bars are nice in
the city for quick control and curb jumping. :-P I'd go for a hybrid
over a flat bar road bike, as the former can be repurposed into a
utility bike more easily.

Something like the affordable Jamis Coda sport might be in order:
http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/bikes/06_coda.html

Not the fanciest, but NYC is the bike theft capital of the world, so
it's nice to stay down-low.

The Giant

Quoted message said:

Any recos on the frame size? The Langster was a 58 cm frame and was
maybe 2" from my crotch. I heard that's about right.

Worry about reach more than frame size. With today's compact frames
that's about the only way to do it.

For what it's worth, I'm 6' 1" with short legs and ride a 60 C-T
traditional road frame.

Just make sure whatever size you get doesn't make you cramped or too
stretched out.

I still think a single speed is a great option, as you get a lot of
bike for the money, and it's virtually solid state.

Have a look at craigslist if you want to save some bucks and get used,
the nyc boards have a crapload of bikes. Just make sure it's not stolen
property:

http://newyork.craigslist.org/bik/

alias landotter snipes from cover of anonymity:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Your experience [with pre-built (aka machine) wheels] isn't the
norm.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From what I've gathered from other riders that have bought bicycles
from the same shop I have, yes it is.

Quoted message said:

This same week you've made some outrageous claims about non-socketed
rims lifespan amongst other zingers. I've put 10s of thousands of
miles on a set of non socketed 36H rims, often carrying incredible
loads of groceries. Never a problem. Ask the guys at Rapid Transit
in Chicago how many wheel returns they get. It will be a very low
number as they take the time to make sure wheels go out the door in
good shape.

I'm sorry I outraged you but you are suggesting that the use of
sockets, that divide spoke loads to both inner and outer beds of the
rim were unnecessary and a wast of the manufacturer's resources. To
make up for that, we read here continuously that rims are cracking
around eyelets (or on rims without eyelets).

There is no way one can "take the time to make sure wheels go out the
door in good shape" if they have no spoke sockets. Single wall spoke
support is less than half as strong as socketed rims whose sockets
spread the load on inner and outer bed on a 10mm+ diameter instead of
a single spoke hole (4mm diameter) with or without an eyelet.

It seems you never saw a socketed rim and gave it some thought.

Jobst Brandt

who? said:

Geez louise, you boys are a handful. I certainly appreciate the
input, though, as it's nice to see many sides of the same picture.

Quoted message said:

Regarding my weight, I might have an extra inch around the gut (no
exaggerating), but I mainly ride and race motocross, so I'm not in
bad shape but I could be in much better shape cardiovascularly as I
only get to ride my dirt bike once a week or so, hence I'd like a
bike to ride in Central Park early mornings.

You can do that on a single speed if you get a gear ratio that you can
ride up to 25mph. Riding in the flat against the clock is a damn good
workout and you can check your fitness from the ET for a nice long
loop.

Quoted message said:

Honestly, a single-gear bike may seem cool and fun, but I'll probably
go with something with gears, something fit for a beginner. Maybe one
of those road bikes that have straight mountainbike bars? [censored], I
gotta go to a few more bike shops and see what they have.

Quoted message said:

Any recos on the frame size? The Langster was a 58 cm frame and was
maybe 2" from my crotch. I heard that's about right.

Frame size is better characterized by noting that the knee is about 10
degrees from straight at the bottom of the pedal stroke when properly
seated. The top tube length and bar stem extension should allow you
to lean forward so that your CG (bellybutton is slightly ahead of the
crank axle (BB). and seat height low enough so that your hips do not
swivel when pedaling on level road.

Because many bicycle shops do not have coaches familiar with a good
bicycle position, they use a gizmo called a fit-kit that tries to
quantify these things so anyone can adjust the bicycle. In spite of
that, the results are skewed by individual physiques. It is far
easier to just have the customer ride up and down the parking lot with
an experienced observer to make adjustment and it takes less time.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

I'm sorry I outraged you but you are suggesting that the use of
sockets, that divide spoke loads to both inner and outer beds of the
rim were unnecessary and a wast of the manufacturer's resources.

Did I? You're growing senile Jobst. I never suggested such a thing. I
suggested that non-socketed rims are plenty strong for most folks and
have been for me in my own experience.

Quoted message said:

To
make up for that, we read here continuously that rims are cracking
around eyelets (or on rims without eyelets).

I've had ONE rim crack. It was eyeletted. Granted, it was a hard ano
MA3, known for such issues.

I don't notice a huge trend on these groups, and it's where people with
mechanical problems often post. Go talk to some bike shop guys. My two
local wrenches aren't having folks pouring in the door with cracked
rims. They mainly sell wheels to guys that taco them in the woods.
Spoke breakage at the hub flange is also common and sockets do nothing
to prevent this.

There have been fewer than a half dozen "cracked rim" threads in
rec.bicycles.misc in 2006 so far. That is not a trend.

Quoted message said:

There is no way one can "take the time to make sure wheels go out the
door in good shape" if they have no spoke sockets. Single wall spoke
support is less than half as strong as socketed rims whose sockets
spread the load on inner and outer bed on a 10mm+ diameter instead of
a single spoke hole (4mm diameter) with or without an eyelet.

Yawn. Perhaps some socketed and eyeletted rims are stronger at that
junction. Great. Fantastic. A lot non socketed rims are plenty strong
as well.

Quoted message said:

It seems you never saw a socketed rim and gave it some thought.

In my head again? You're magical!

Quoted message said:

landotter said:

Quoted message said:

I'm sorry I outraged you but you are suggesting that the use of
sockets, that divide spoke loads to both inner and outer beds of the
rim were unnecessary and a wast of the manufacturer's resources.

Quoted message said:

Did I? You're growing senile Jobst. I never suggested such a thing.

JB seems to be having a bad week. (And it's only Tuesday!)

Bill "a cranky mind is a poetic thing to lose" S.

Quoted message said:

alias landotter said:

Quoted message said:

A single gear bike is a bit of a special interest bike. At 200lbs
you are pretty heavy and will want the option of some lower gears
on the hill at the north end of the park. Maybe someday you'll want
a single speed, but until you know that it could be a mistake that
would make you not ride as much as you would otherwise.

Quoted message said:

200 pounds is a normal weight for a 6' 2" and no need to recommend
gears as somebody's heavy.

I guess in the USA we have had inflation of normal weight as well as
in most other perceptions. 200 is a fairly heavy cross section for
that height.

6'2" and 200 pounds is a BMI of 25.73, between the "low risk" zone for
heart attack and the "very low risk" zone. Not a professional cyclist
specializing in climbing kind of weight, but certainly not a porker.

Pat