beginner racing bike

"Ron Bott" wrote...

Quoted message said:

I see quite a bit of aluminum. Back in the day the only
aluminum I remember were the Vitus frames, and the bad rap
on those were that the aluminum would fatigue over time.
Obviously with changes in construction, materials, etc.
things are different today?

Things are not much different in terms of longevity,
although alu frames have expanded their influence into some
of the most expensive frames you can buy. Consider getting a
used bike, maybe from e-bay or rec.bicycles.marketplace
where you can get more bike for your buck. If you prefer
new, and are price conscious you will more than likely end
up with an aluminum bike, but good steel can be had. Even
titanium, from r.b.r's own Mark Hickey:
habcycles.comroad.htmlOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Looks like more groups of componentry available. I always
preferred the Campy stuff. What would be the lowest group
in the heirachy that would be recommended for racing?

I'm partial to Campy Chorus too, although Shimano is less
expensive often more easily available. You can look over
Campy components here:
campagnolo.comnewprodc.phpOpen ↗ They market CENTAUR
as their "groupset introducing the hi-end of the
Campagnolo range."

Quoted message said:

Basically I'm looking for some suggestions for good entry
level racing setups. I'll be starting off in Cat 5, would
like a nice, solid bike, but it needn't be overly
extravigent. I'm also about 140lbs. if that would matter
for frame slection materials.

For starters you might look at Gunnar (esp. for good,
inexpensive steel):
waterfordbikes.comindex.htmOpen ↗

Giant: giant-bicycle.comdefault 200406.aspOpen ↗

Raleigh: raleighusa.comraleighusa.comOpen ↗

Ron Bott said:

I would like to return to some road racing after a layoff
of about 10 years. While recently looking at some
equipment, I felt a bit overwhelmed by the options,
variety, as well as the prices.

Last time I started racing, it was common to grab a bike
with a Columbus SL frame and Ultegra or Chorus components.
I guess the thought was the bike would be reasonably
priced, perform well, but not be overly expensive to
replace parts, etc. when the eminent crashes of beginner
racing occurred.

I have a few questions about some current bikes:

I see quite a bit of aluminum. Back in the day the only
aluminum I remember were the Vitus frames, and the bad rap
on those were that the aluminum would fatigue over time.
Obviously with changes in construction, materials, etc.
things are different today?

Looks like more groups of componentry available. I always
preferred the Campy stuff. What would be the lowest group
in the heirachy that would be recommended for racing?

Basically I'm looking for some suggestions for good entry
level racing setups. I'll be starting off in Cat 5, would
like a nice, solid bike, but it needn't be overly
extravigent. I'm also about 140lbs. if that would matter
for frame slection materials.

Beginner? The beginners I know use Tiagra if they're lucky!

Most basic frames are alu these days, and the fat
tubes prevent the metal fatiguing as quickly as the
old Vitus ones.

I would try and get 10-speed Campag if possible, as that's
what everyone else will be using and it's filtering down to
the lower groups each year.

Ron Bott said:

I would like to return to some road racing after a layoff
of about 10 years. While recently looking at some
equipment, I felt a bit overwhelmed by the options,
variety, as well as the prices.

Last time I started racing, it was common to grab a bike
with a Columbus SL frame and Ultegra or Chorus components.
I guess the thought was the bike would be reasonably
priced, perform well, but not be overly expensive to
replace parts, etc. when the eminent crashes of beginner
racing occurred.

I have a few questions about some current bikes:

I see quite a bit of aluminum. Back in the day the only
aluminum I remember were the Vitus frames, and the bad rap
on those were that the aluminum would fatigue over time.
Obviously with changes in construction, materials, etc.
things are different today?

Looks like more groups of componentry available. I always
preferred the Campy stuff. What would be the lowest group
in the heirachy that would be recommended for racing?

Basically I'm looking for some suggestions for good entry
level racing setups. I'll be starting off in Cat 5, would
like a nice, solid bike, but it needn't be overly
extravigent. I'm also about 140lbs. if that would matter
for frame slection materials.

The conservative choice would still be a good steel race
frame with Campagnolo Centaur at about $1500 &up or with
Chorus at $2300 &up, custom built with handbuilt wheels and
race quality peripherals, tubs or clinchers.

Factory bikes will generally be a little less but then
you'll need to negotiate parts swaps with the dealer to get
the exact setup you desire.

Neither steel or aluminum are altogether better or worse,
there being a range of materials, techniques, designs and
quality control ( Or lack thereof) in both.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1
April, 1971

In article
<[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I see quite a bit of aluminum. Back in the day the only
aluminum I remember were the Vitus frames, and the bad rap
on those were that the aluminum would fatigue over time.
Obviously with changes in construction, materials, etc.
things are different today?

All aluminum frames will eventually fail. The test is how
long it will be before they fail. When a German magazine did
a tes on frames a Cannondale was one of the frames they
could not break. How the frame is built is more important
than the material.

Quoted message said:

Looks like more groups of componentry available. I always
preferred the Campy stuff. What would be the lowest group
in the heirachy that would be recommended for racing?

Veloce is nice stuff.

Quoted message said:

Basically I'm looking for some suggestions for good entry
level racing setups. I'll be starting off in Cat 5, would
like a nice, solid bike, but it needn't be overly
extravigent. I'm also about 140lbs. if that would matter
for frame slection materials.

I would look at an inexpensice aluminum frame that fits
well. I don't see you getting much extra with the mondo
dollar aluminum frames.
-----------
Alex

In article
<[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I see quite a bit of aluminum. Back in the day the only
aluminum I remember were the Vitus frames, and the bad rap
on those were that the aluminum would fatigue over time.
Obviously with changes in construction, materials, etc.
things are different today?

One more thing. I remember the Vitus frames and I never
heard of any of them having fatigue failures. I heard of
many bond failues, these frames were bonded. I owned one for
more than 15k miles and I never had any problems with the
frame. I kinda wish I had kept that bike.
-------------
Alex

Campy Shampy.... I'm a DA guy, but you can get a sweet bike
with Ultegra that will treat you just fine. If you haven't
ridden or researched a Cannondale bike, I would highy
recommend starting there. Their stock alu CAD7 frames come
race ready(with components choices galore). As always, don't
take my/anyone elses word for it, try a handful of bikes
(fitted properly of course) then figure it out yourself.

Oh yeah, you might want to try saddling a Cannondale (like
a low/mid-priced R1000) first, it will save you time and
money 🙂...

Take a peek below if ya feel urge...

Scottt

cannondale.commodel 4RR1D.htmlOpen ↗

A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Ron Bott said:

I would like to return to some road racing after a
layoff of about 10 years. While recently looking at some
equipment, I felt a bit overwhelmed by the options,
variety, as well as the prices.

Last time I started racing, it was common to grab a bike
with a Columbus SL frame and Ultegra or Chorus
components. I guess the thought was the bike would be
reasonably priced, perform well, but not be overly
expensive to replace parts, etc. when the eminent
crashes of beginner racing occurred.

I have a few questions about some current bikes:

I see quite a bit of aluminum. Back in the day the only
aluminum I remember were the Vitus frames, and the bad
rap on those were that the aluminum would fatigue over
time. Obviously with changes in construction, materials,
etc. things are different today?

Looks like more groups of componentry available. I
always preferred the Campy stuff. What would be the
lowest group in the heirachy that would be recommended
for racing?

Basically I'm looking for some suggestions for good
entry level racing setups. I'll be starting off in Cat
5, would like a nice, solid bike, but it needn't be
overly extravigent. I'm also about 140lbs. if that would
matter for frame slection materials.

The conservative choice would still be a good steel race
frame with Campagnolo Centaur at about $1500 &up or with
Chorus at $2300 &up, custom built with handbuilt wheels
and race quality peripherals, tubs or clinchers.

Factory bikes will generally be a little less but then
you'll need to negotiate parts swaps with the dealer to
get the exact setup you desire.

Neither steel or aluminum are altogether better or worse,
there being a range of materials, techniques, designs and
quality control ( Or lack thereof) in both.

ronbott-<< I see quite a bit of aluminum. Back in the day
the only aluminum I remember were the Vitus frames, and the
bad rap on those were that the aluminum would fatigue over
time. Obviously with changes in construction, materials,
etc. things are different today? >><BR><BR>

Aluminum is cheap and easy to manufacture, hence a lot of
aluminum. An aluminum frameset can work for you, a stoopid
light one will not last.

ronbott-<< I always preferred the Campy stuff. What would be
the lowest group in the heirachy that would be recommended
for racing? >><BR><BR>

Any group will 'work for racing'. Gruppos won't make you
faster or slower. Find a bike shop that can make up a
package for you. Like less expensive things that may get
broken in crashes, like rear ders. Spend the $ on the
frameset and te wheels. The rest is not important .

Go to a bike shop that will do a fit on you, on a fit cycle.
Then pick a frameset and then build the bike specifically
the way you want it. Fit is more important than anything.
Stay away from bike shops that do the 'stand over, ride
around the paring lot' type fit.

I'd say a well fitting aluminum or steel frameset, Veloce
or Mirage or a mix, or Centaur for a wee biot less weight
but identical performance. Ideally a good wheel builder
will build your wheels, not just somebody taking smething
outta a box.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Jim-<< I'm partial to Campy Chorus too, although Shimano is
less expensive often more easily available. >><BR><BR>

Don't get the first part of this. Chorus is cheaper than 10s
DA, Centaur is certainly going to be less than 10s ultegra.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " wrote...

Quoted message said:

Don't get the first part of this. Chorus is cheaper than
10s DA, Centaur

is

Quoted message said:

certainly going to be less than 10s ultegra.

I was just thinking Record ($1689.00) to DA ($1289.00),
Chorus ($1229.00) to Ultegra ($659.00) as a top-of-the-line
to top-, second-to-second comparison. So Chorus is cheaper
than DA but more expensive than Ultegra. Never mind that in
your and my opinion the Chorus is a far better groupset than
the Ultegra. Prices are from Colorado Cyclist just to use a
ready online reference. Groups are full groups with the same
list of components included.

JF

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jim-<< I was just thinking Record ($1689.00) to DA
($1289.00), Chorus ($1229.00) to Ultegra ($659.00) as a
top-of-the-line to top-, second-to-second

comparison.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

Here we go...ya know a Ford Crown Victoria is way less
than a Mercedes 500 SEL..both top of the line.

I think ya gotta look at materials, not heirarchy. It was
simplier when

Chorus

Quoted message said:

was all aluminum, now with carbon, a bit tougher. BUT I
compare DA 10s

with

Quoted message said:

Chorus still, Centaur with ultegra. Titanium, of which
there is about what

a

Quoted message said:

'ti bolt kit' from SRP offered now in 2004 Record(17
'bits), makes for the price of Record.

BTW-I doubt you will find DA 10s, WITH hubs for less than
about $1600.

Must compare with hubs, as DA 10s hubs are so expensive.

On the other hand, at the price of $1600 for the group, with
hubs, DA 10 is *priced* to match Record 10, not Chorus or
Centaur. The other thing to look at in comparing DA 10 to
Record 10 is weight. For that same $1600, DA 10 is "lighter"
than Record 10. Add in the fact that DA 10 appears to be in
short supply, real or not, plus all the fact that it is the
*group to get* as all the pros ride it - thus increasing
demand, and well, you may want to believe that DA 10 is
"equivalent" to Chorus or Centaur, but the reality of price,
weight and desireability makes it closer match to Record....

Alex Rodriguez said:

All aluminum frames will eventually fail. The test is how
long it will be before they fail. When a German magazine
did a tes on frames a Cannondale was one of the frames they
could not break. How the frame is built is more important
than the material.

Every time the 'Tour' (iirc) magazine article is mentioned,
I feel a need to remind everyone that they had to make
certain compromises to the testing regime - namely they were
forced to use a high stress / short time accelerated life
testing approach, rather than the MUCH more expensive and
time-consuming (but more realistic) "same stress - same
time" approach.

The tour test would be appropriate if the bike were to be
ridden by an 800 pound gorilla with a great sprint,
though... ;-)

(suddenly it occurs to me how cool it would be to train an
800 pound gorilla to ride a bike and put him up against Cipo
in an exibition race).

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of
the $695 ti frame

On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 12:24:16 -0700, Mark Hickey <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Alex Rodriguez said:

All aluminum frames will eventually fail. The test is how
long it will be before they fail. When a German magazine
did a tes on frames a Cannondale was one of the frames
they could not break. How the frame is built is more
important than the material.

Every time the 'Tour' (iirc) magazine article is mentioned,
I feel a need to remind everyone that they had to make
certain compromises to the testing regime - namely they
were forced to use a high stress /

Careful -- surely you mean load, not stress, right?

Quoted message said:

short time accelerated life testing approach, rather than
the MUCH more expensive and time-consuming (but more
realistic) "same stress - same time" approach.

The tour test would be appropriate if the bike were to be
ridden by an 800 pound gorilla with a great sprint,
though... ;-)

(suddenly it occurs to me how cool it would be to train an
800 pound gorilla to ride a bike and put him up against
Cipo in an exibition race).

Now that would be a fine sight to see! But what outfits
would they wear?!? We'd have to enforce strict
regulations to ensure Cipo didn't dress up as a gorilla
or something. ;-)

Quoted message said:

I would look at an inexpensice aluminum frame that fits
well. I don't see you getting much extra with the mondo
dollar aluminum frames.

Try Cervelo Team Soloist. www.cervelo.com

Mark Hickey said:

The tour test would be appropriate if the bike were to be
ridden by an 800 pound gorilla with a great sprint,
though... ;-)

(suddenly it occurs to me how cool it would be to train an
800 pound gorilla to ride a bike and put him up against
Cipo in an exibition race).

Would the gorilla shave his legs?

-=Dave=-

[email hidden] (Qui si parla Campagnolo ) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

BFD-<< On the other hand, at the price of $1600 for the
group, with hubs, DA 10 is *priced* to match Record 10,
not Chorus or Centaur. >><BR><BR>

Well, also remember that mailorder does not a 'standard'
make. We price DA and Chorus very closely together,
including hubs. Samo for ultegra(altho we really can't get
it now) with centaur, Veloce with 105.

My LBS sells the DA 10 group for $1600. How much do you sell
your DA 10 group for? Less than $1600?

Quoted message said:

BFD<< For that same $1600, DA 10 is "lighter" than Record
10. >><BR><BR>

Not so, per the Velonews article of the groups. DA 10s and
Chorus 10s are about the same.

Actually, according to the "official" websites, Record is
the lightest of the 3 groups mentioned. Record 10 group (no
pedals or headset) weighs in at 2671g, DA 10 group weighs
2696g and Chorus 10 group weighs 2836. I would say its more
like DA 10 and Record 10 are "about the same"....

Quoted message said:

BFD-<< Add in the fact that DA 10 appears to be in short
supply, real or not, >><BR><BR>

You can say that again. We cannot find 10s cogsets.

BFD<< Chorus or Centaur, but the reality of price, weight
and desireability makes it closer match to Record....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

Here in the republic, we sell 20-25 Record groups PLUS 15-
20 Chorus groups for one DA 10s group. OEM, from
Specialized, Giany, Trek, does not a standard make either.

Since you appears to be selling so much more Campy 10 than
DA 10, how much are you selling these groups for?

Quoted message said:

BFD-<< all the fact that it is the *group to get* as all
the pros ride it >><BR><BR>

TdF has more Campag teams than shimano PLUS, like Dean and
some other bike stuff(ksyriums), giving it away for free
or 'bro' deals skews the appearance of what actually
'sells'.

Agree, OEM gets the best deal and can "package" a group in a
*complete* bike for way less than what you, the shops, can
get it for. That's how mail-order has survived all these
years.....

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

... Here in the republic, we sell 20-25 Record groups PLUS
15-20 Chorus groups for one DA 10s group....

And would you not be promoting Campy over Shimano to
your customers, Mr. Chisholm? Is not this sample
therefore biased?

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area