beginner marathoner

Dan Stumpus said:

For the vast majority that is sound advice. However, when someone can comfortably average 40-50
mpw, they're ready to prepare for one.

We agree and this usually takes about a year or so. Those that ramp up too quickly often end up
injured, yada yada.

Quoted message said:

I live two blocks from the 23 mile point of the LA marathon. I was shocked to see *thousands* of
people struggling in slower than 5:30 on a warm day. In my opinion, most of these people had no
business being out there.

Bingo again! I often recommend that those who want to do a marathon on low mileage their first year
park their asses about 20-22 miles of a marathon to get some visual realizations.

Quoted message said:

Most of them were walk/jogging and were complete glazed-eyed zombies. (kind of like the finish of
a 100 ;-)

A f**king men! I've had the 200 mile stare five times. I think it's permanent damage. 😉

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I would sooner suggest the beginer try a trail 50k the first year before the road marathon.

This is absolutely true! Much easier on the legs, small field, nicer people, time to eat
and drink.

I got three new people over that three years to try a trail 50k and now are trail geeks asnd will
hardly look a a road thon.

Quoted message said:

I haven't run a road marathon since '86, and don't miss it at all.

My alleged friends try to get me to run a road a marathon with the
recent push Hyannis. I have absolutely no desire to pound that much
pavement. I have to suffer enough during the winter with long
runs on roads without adding another 26 for [censored] and giggles. I
think it was the Boston's hundredth anniversary or maybe the year
after the last time I did a road thon. I don't miss it one iota.

Temps are heading for the 50's this weekend. Maybe some of the trails will melt.

--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email hidden]

Doug Freese said:

Temps are heading for the 50's this weekend. Maybe some of the trails will melt.

ours aren't quite that warm, but our snow is definitely melting - but in contrast to you, I am NOT
happy about it 🙁 I've discovered snowshoe running 🙂 I'm definitely getting the feel for it, and my
hip flexors are starting to reach the point that I can run a little longer / less walk recovery in
the run/walk scheme, at least for short outings (30
min) - longer than what I could do before I had my injury problems, so it's more of a technique than
brute strength issue, but still a long way to go for continuous runs of, say, 45 min, where I
definitely need more strength, to be built gradually. Very definite contrast to my thoughts a
couple years ago when we had thin icy snow most of the winter and I hadn't really discovered ss
or trail running and was exuberant to see pavement.

The bright side is that we frequently get big dumps in March 🙂

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

"Dan Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote...

Quoted message said:

Dan Stumpus said:

I was the same kind of nut. My first race was a marathon ... And I'm

still at it, 24 years later.

Quoted message said:

...I would contend: ... many that do finish have such a miserable experience they never do

another.

Quoted message said:

So for the preservation of the sport and an a less horrific personal experience I recommend at
least a solid year of running before attempting a marathon and then to use a 4-5 training month
schedule to get ready. The vast majority that take the slower path are still running.

For the vast majority that is sound advice. However, when someone can comfortably average 40-50
mpw, they're ready to prepare for one. Most people take a goodly time to get to that point. I was
playing 20 hrs of tennis/week at a high level (5+) before I started running, which gave me a leg
up on most people.

Good for you.

Quoted message said:

I live two blocks from the 23 mile point of the LA marathon. I was shocked to see *thousands* of
people struggling in slower than 5:30 on a warm day. In my opinion, most of these people had no
business being out there. Most of them were walk/jogging and were complete glazed-eyed zombies.
(kind of like the finish of a 100 ;-) They had not averaged 40-50 mpw in training!

And you know this because.....?

Really such comments reveal an elitist attitude. Unless you know those thousands of people
personally, you have no clue as to why they are running at that pace. Not all runners are gifted
with the same skill level, even after long training. Their reasons for running the marathon are as
varied as the skill levels.

Funny, almost every other sport welcomes more participants at all levels. Golf and Bowling use
handicapping to level the competition between different levels of players. Ameteurs can compete with
the Pros. Baseball has leagues for nearly all ages from T-ball leagues to old-timers leagues,
letting comparable skill levels compete together. Volleyball welcomes variations from two player
beach volley to coed rec leagues to power college play. Other sports do similar things. I have never
heard anyone in those other sports remark that someone should not participate in their sport. More
often, their comment is along the lines of "hey why don't you join us?". So why are there such an
antagonistic attitude by some runners?

(Then some of these same folks decry the lack of good American runners. Such inconsistancy)

Might I suggest that instead of saying "most of these people had no business being out there", why
don't you try to help some of them in their training? You could help coach at a local running club,
form a running club if there isn't one, or do as little as writing some encouraging posts in this
group. You might find some real inspiration in those folks. And some of them might possibly be
inspired by you. Give it a shot.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I would sooner suggest the beginer try a trail 50k the first year before the road marathon.

This is absolutely true! Much easier on the legs, small field, nicer people, time to eat and
drink. I haven't run a road marathon since '86, and don't miss it at all.

--Dan

On the road and loving it, Ed

Hi Ed:

While my remarks about the last 5000 people in the LA marathon (which I worked to the bitter end,
when the street sweepers came) seem elitist, I was really angry that they were really bashing
themselves so hard. Many of these people were flabby, and too whacked out to even talk. I was
worried that many were hyponatremic. The aid stations had only water and Gatorade (not nearly enough
sodium in the latter to replenish someone on the road for 6 hours on a hot day). I would bet that
many were right on the borderline.

So the difference between golf, bowling, tennis, and running is the real danger to your health if
you get over your head. People who don't have the preparation or the talent to jog a marathon need
to be prepared like ultra runners--with lots of emphasis on nourishment and sodium replenishment.

Let me rephrase the offending sentence: Instead of "they had no business being there", make it "I
felt bad that so many people were so unprepared and risking their health."

And yes, I do spout off quite a bit on issues related to training, mostly on the Ultra list, but
here, too.

Finally, even though when younger I had some talent (often finishing in the top 1%), I don't respect
people for that--you get no credit for being born with good plumbing. I respect those who work hard,
and get the most out of whatever the Lord gave them.

Regards,

--Dan (just itching to get out tomorrow morning to the San Gabriels and run in the snow at 5k feet)

"Ed prochak" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dan Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote...

Quoted message said:

Dan Stumpus wrote:
>
> I was the same kind of nut. My first race was a marathon ... And

I'm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

still at it, 24 years later.

Quoted message said:

...I would contend: ... many that do finish have such a miserable experience they never do

another.

Quoted message said:

So for the preservation of the sport and an a less horrific personal experience I recommend at
least a solid year of running before attempting a marathon and then to use a 4-5 training
month schedule to get ready. The vast majority that take the slower path are still running.

For the vast majority that is sound advice. However, when someone can comfortably average 40-50
mpw, they're ready to prepare for one. Most people take a goodly time to get to that point. I
was playing 20 hrs of tennis/week at a high level (5+) before I started running, which gave me

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

leg up on most people.

Good for you.

Quoted message said:

I live two blocks from the 23 mile point of the LA marathon. I was

shocked

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to see *thousands* of people struggling in slower than 5:30 on a warm

day.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In my opinion, most of these people had no business being out there.

Most

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of them were walk/jogging and were complete glazed-eyed zombies. (kind

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

like the finish of a 100 ;-) They had not averaged 40-50 mpw in

training!

Quoted message said:

And you know this because.....?

Really such comments reveal an elitist attitude. Unless you know those thousands of people
personally, you have no clue as to why they are running at that pace. Not all runners are gifted
with the same skill level, even after long training. Their reasons for running the marathon are as
varied as the skill levels.

Funny, almost every other sport welcomes more participants at all levels. Golf and Bowling use
handicapping to level the competition between different levels of players. Ameteurs can compete
with the Pros. Baseball has leagues for nearly all ages from T-ball leagues to old-timers leagues,
letting comparable skill levels compete together. Volleyball welcomes variations from two player
beach volley to coed rec leagues to power college play. Other sports do similar things. I have
never heard anyone in those other sports remark that someone should not participate in their
sport. More often, their comment is along the lines of "hey why don't you join us?". So why are
there such an antagonistic attitude by some runners?

(Then some of these same folks decry the lack of good American runners. Such inconsistancy)

Might I suggest that instead of saying "most of these people had no business being out there", why
don't you try to help some of them in their training? You could help coach at a local running
club, form a running club if there isn't one, or do as little as writing some encouraging posts in
this group. You might find some real inspiration in those folks. And some of them might possibly
be inspired by you. Give it a shot.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I would sooner suggest the beginer try a trail 50k the first year before the road marathon.

This is absolutely true! Much easier on the legs, small field, nicer people, time to eat and
drink. I haven't run a road marathon since '86,

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

don't miss it at all.

--Dan

On the road and loving it, Ed

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dan Stumpus said:

Let me rephrase the offending sentence: Instead of "they had no business being there", make it "I
felt bad that so many people were so unprepared and risking their health."

That's a good way to put it. I don't really respect someone who "guts out" a Marathon without
proper training, but I respect anyone who puts in the training they need to complete it, even if
they're slow.

Quoted message said:

And yes, I do spout off quite a bit on issues related to training, mostly on the Ultra list, but
here, too.

Finally, even though when younger I had some talent (often finishing in the top 1%), I don't
respect people for that--you get no credit for being born with good plumbing. I respect those who
work hard, and get the most out of whatever the Lord gave them.

Well, I guess I respect the people who take their natural talent and actually do something with
it more than the people who waste it. But, yes, I respect people who work hard with what they
have the most.

My favorite examples are Walter Payton and Michael Jordan, both who had talent but who worked so
much harder than everyone else that they were the best.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

- Homer J. Simpson