Beginner Heart Rate Training - When Results?

Quoted message said:

I have been on this program for 2 weeks. About how long will it be
before I see results and has anyone else seen benefits using this
method?

Depends what you are trying to accomplish. State your goals and maybe
we can answer.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

I don't need to win any races. I was just wondering when I would see my
pace quicken while remaining at that same 70%.
My goals have changed from the beginning. Now I just want to be able to
stay out longer and cover more beautiful territory. I would like to do
a half marathon this coming June. That will be just over one year from
when I stared running. Currently I run 19 miles per week (5 days) with
one hard day (temp and striders) and one long day (5 miles for me).

Also I could lose about 20 pound. What king of drag is this putting on
me?

Quoted message said:

I started running in May 2005 at age 35 after many years of saying "I
am not a runner" and "I hate running". Well, I Love running!! I am
still slow but have been relatively injury free for the past three
months.
I purchased a heart rate monitor and John L. Parker's book, "Heart
Monitor Training for the Compleat (sic.) Idiot". To run below my
recovery ceiling, 70% MHR, is just faster than my fastest walking pace.
I have been on this program for 2 weeks. About how long will it be
before I see results and has anyone else seen benefits using this
method?

Glad to be a "Runner"!

An easy recovery dawdle at around that pace is appropriate sometimes, but you
should also get in some faster running.

If you're just doing steady-paced runs for now, I'd suggest alternating slightly
faster training runs at about 80-85% with the easier recovery runs.

My experience has been that it doesn't really matter how fast I do recovery
runs. I run about 80 miles a week, and my recovery runs are as slow as 9 minutes
a mile -- a full 2 minutes slower than my marathon race pace. But I also do
speed work, and the speed workouts are very hard.

To reach your potential, you should first build a foundation of easy running,
gradually increase your mileage, and then start doing speed work. You will
ultimately need both parts of the equation -- you will be slow if you do speed
work and no base mileage, but you will also be slow if you never do speed work.
But you need to build a training foundation before you commence a hard speed
work program.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Penguin said:

I don't need to win any races. I was just wondering when I would see my
pace quicken while remaining at that same 70%.
My goals have changed from the beginning. Now I just want to be able to
stay out longer and cover more beautiful territory. I would like to do
a half marathon this coming June. That will be just over one year from
when I stared running. Currently I run 19 miles per week (5 days) with
one hard day (temp and striders) and one long day (5 miles for me).

Also I could lose about 20 pound. What king of drag is this putting on
me?

The extra weight will make you much slower.

If you're doing a tempo each week, you should gradually see your times on that
drop. You might not get a drop each and every week but there should be a
distinct downard trend especially at this stage of your training. If there
isn't, you should think about increasing mileage or intensity (if you're doing
less than 20, I would suggest adding mileage)

btw, 5 miles isn't very long (it's only about 25% longer than your average run)
so I'd suggest increasing mileage by adding to the length of your long run. Your
long run should be about twice as long as your average run.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Quoted message said:

I started running in May 2005 at age 35 after many years of saying "I
am not a runner" and "I hate running". Well, I Love running!! I am
still slow but have been relatively injury free for the past three
months.
I purchased a heart rate monitor and John L. Parker's book, "Heart
Monitor Training for the Compleat (sic.) Idiot". To run below my

^^^^^^^

Believe it or not, "compleat" is a real word.
It means quintessential.

Quoted message said:

recovery ceiling, 70% MHR, is just faster than my fastest walking pace.
I have been on this program for 2 weeks. About how long will it be
before I see results and has anyone else seen benefits using this
method?

Donovan had some good points in his reply.

I'll just add - be patient. Sometimes when you don't see in your results
what you expect to see, you might get frustrated. But, be patient. Good
things take time. Also, if you are not doing so already, keeping a log
book would help in tracking your progress.

Good luck,
jobs

Thanks for the responses.
One of the best tips was that compleat was a word. I pride myself in my
vocbulary , so although I am embarrassed by not knowing this, I am glad
to have now added it.

I am keeping a logbook in a spreadsheet.

The training program I am following adds mileage next week, so I will
follow that. Thanks for the tips.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

70% MHR, is just faster than my fastest walking pace.
I have been on this program for 2 weeks.

I would be suspect of your MHR in this case. Most people use the standard
formula 220 - age. I find that my MHR is actually about 20 BPM higher and
if I were to use the standard, my pace would be very slow. Your "tempo"
runs may actually be at 70% of your real MHR rather than 80%. You'll see
the benefits you are looking much quicker if are able to train at the
correct pace.

See what your book says about calculating your MHR. Look into using a fit
test or doing some hill repeats for a more accurate calculation.

Regards,

Mike

Quoth Mike R. <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

70% MHR, is just faster than my fastest walking pace.
I have been on this program for 2 weeks.

Quoted message said:

I would be suspect of your MHR in this case. Most people use the standard
formula 220 - age. I find that my MHR is actually about 20 BPM higher and
if I were to use the standard, my pace would be very slow.

Unless you get your MHR measured in the lab, there is a good amount of
variation; and even in a lab, it's just a snapshot. When I got my HRM,
I just ran with it and logged the results along with temp/dew point,
perceived health and perceived effort. I've found that heart rate rises
versus perceived effort over the course of a run; perceived effort is
strongly correlated to pace; both heart rate and perceived effort are
strongly inversly correlated to temp minus dew point (at least above
60dF/16C -- no data below that.) Given my results, I am looking forward
to running in the Autumn.

Quoted message said:

See what your book says about calculating your MHR. Look into using a fit
test or doing some hill repeats for a more accurate calculation.

And do post your results. I've found that I've measured 5BPM greater
than my computed max, and I suspect my actual max is a bit higher, but
I have done nothing but my standard runs to try to measure it.

Measured Resting HR: 50BPM
Measured Maximum HR: 185BPM

I may look into getting a stress test at a sports med place, just to
satisfy my own curiousity.

Cheers,
Craig

--
Corollary to Clarke's Third Law:
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently
advanced.

It seems to me I heard somewhere that
[email hidden] wrote in article
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I started running in May 2005 at age 35 after many years of saying "I
am not a runner" and "I hate running". Well, I Love running!! I am
still slow but have been relatively injury free for the past three
months.
I purchased a heart rate monitor and John L. Parker's book, "Heart
Monitor Training for the Compleat (sic.) Idiot". To run below my

^^^^^^^

Quoted message said:

Believe it or not, "compleat" is a real word.
It means quintessential.

Mr. Walton knew that when he wrote "The Compleat Angler" in 1653. It's
simply an archaic spelling of "complete," which is what it means.
Something that is complete may approach quintessence, but it ain't
necessarily so.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

recovery ceiling, 70% MHR, is just faster than my fastest walking pace.
I have been on this program for 2 weeks. About how long will it be
before I see results and has anyone else seen benefits using this
method?

Quoted message said:

Donovan had some good points in his reply.

Quoted message said:

I'll just add - be patient. Sometimes when you don't see in your results
what you expect to see, you might get frustrated. But, be patient. Good
things take time. Also, if you are not doing so already, keeping a log
book would help in tracking your progress.

As a rule of thumb for measuring patience, it's often said that it takes
two or three weeks to build the effects of any one workout into the
body's working capacity.
--
Don Kirkman

Don Kirkman said:

It seems to me I heard somewhere that
[email hidden] wrote in article
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I purchased a heart rate monitor and John L. Parker's book, "Heart
Monitor Training for the Compleat (sic.) Idiot". To run below my

^^^^^^^

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Believe it or not, "compleat" is a real word.
It means quintessential.

Quoted message said:

Mr. Walton knew that when he wrote "The Compleat Angler" in 1653. It's
simply an archaic spelling of "complete," which is what it means.
Something that is complete may approach quintessence, but it ain't
necessarily so.

This is what the American Heritage Dictionary has to say:
http://www.bartleby.com/61/84/C0528400.html

ADJECTIVE: 1. Of or characterized by a highly developed or wide-ranging
skill or proficiency: "The compleat speechwriter ... comes to anonymity
from Harvard Law" (Israel Shenker). 2. Being an outstanding example of
a kind; quintessential: "Here was the compleat modern misfit: the very
air appeared to poison him; his every step looked treacherous and hard
won" (Stephen Schiff).
ETYMOLOGY: Variant of complete.

Quoted message said:

I started running in May 2005 at age 35 after many years of saying "I
am not a runner" and "I hate running". Well, I Love running!! I am
still slow but have been relatively injury free for the past three
months.
I purchased a heart rate monitor and John L. Parker's book, "Heart
Monitor Training for the Compleat (sic.) Idiot". To run below my
recovery ceiling, 70% MHR, is just faster than my fastest walking pace.
I have been on this program for 2 weeks. About how long will it be
before I see results and has anyone else seen benefits using this
method?

Glad to be a "Runner"!

Don't worry about getting too scientific about running unless that is
the thing that keeps you from quitting. The most important thing, I
believe is to sustain your interest over time and not quit.

I started running seriously about six years ago at age 53. Couldn't
go over about a mile and a half to start at about a 10 minute pace.
Have kept it up increasing distance and pace gradually only as it felt
comfortable. Currently run six days a week between 3.5 and 5 miles
per session based only on how I feel on a particular day not on any
schedule. Try to maintain 22-24 miles per week. Training pace is now
about 8:30 and I compete in 5Ks at just below 8:00. My very
scientific running sons who have run cross country say I'm doing this
all wrong.

Thing is I lost 23 pounds over that time and can't tell you when.
Resting heart rate dropped to the low fifties and I can't tell you
when that happened. Blood pressure was normal when I started, still
normal. At my age those results and doing well in my age bracket in
local sanctioned races is what keeps me going.

Be patient, it will come if you just don't quit. As I said, if
becoming a student of running keeps you from quitting by all means.
If it just frustrates you because you don't think you're getting
results as fast as you should, relax and enjoy the run.

Frank

Evey once in a while I take off the monitor and watch and just run as
fast and as far as I feel like. These runs are always satisfying.

Quoted message said:

I started running in May 2005 at age 35 after many years of saying "I
am not a runner" and "I hate running". Well, I Love running!! I am
still slow but have been relatively injury free for the past three
months.
I purchased a heart rate monitor and John L. Parker's book, "Heart
Monitor Training for the Compleat (sic.) Idiot". To run below my
recovery ceiling, 70% MHR, is just faster than my fastest walking pace.
I have been on this program for 2 weeks. About how long will it be
before I see results and has anyone else seen benefits using this
method?

Glad to be a "Runner"!

Congratulations on the lifestyle change! I bet you will continue to *feel*
better even if it doesn't seem that you are getting *faster* very quickly.

Keep a log. Progress is slow. I started running early in 2004. Yesterday
I was so depressed (over "real life" getting in the way of my planned run)
that I was flipping the pages on last year's running log -- and was
surprised at how much gradual progress I have made. Stepping back and
taking the big view will let you see the progress. For me, the changes
from month to month are invisible, from season to season are slight, but
from six months to a year ago -- dramatic.

Good luck!
--
Daniel
[email hidden]

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:08:14 -0700, Daniel <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Keep a log.

Me too. It's in my shorts (most of the time)

Thanks for the encouragement. I logged for ahwile and have picked it up
again. Last night I shaved about 2 mins off my 5 mile recovery run so I
am seeing some progress.

And if progress were fast, everyone would be doing it and the trails
would be clogged.

Thanks for the encouragement. I logged for ahwile and have picked it up
again. Last night I shaved about 2 mins off my 5 mile recovery run so I
am seeing some progress.

And if progress were fast, everyone would be doing it and the trails
would be clogged.

Penguin said:

Thanks for the encouragement. I logged for ahwile and have picked it up
again. Last night I shaved about 2 mins off my 5 mile recovery run so I
am seeing some progress.

Suggestion: Use recovery runs for recovery, not time trials. Looking
back, it looks like 5 mi is your long run?

Don't rush the base building phase. What you'll notice more than speed
initially, I think, is the ease with which you can run certain distances
and adaptation of muscles, tendons, ligaments to running. Your body gets
better at absorbing impact.

As a cross-check with the effort levels you're using now, you might take
a look at these pages to see if your effort matches those zones. Benson
(this is what I learned with) and Parker (never used Parker) may use
different zones, but concepts are probably similar or the same.

http://www.coachbenson.com/ebtcorr.pdf
http://www.coachbenson.com/images/thr.pdf

Enjoy your new found sport 🙂.

Dot

--
"running is a mysterious journey that we take not just to beat other
people or to stay in reasonable physical shape - but to find out more
about ourselves" - Owen Anderson

Quoted message said:

I purchased a heart rate monitor and John L. Parker's book, "Heart
Monitor Training for the Compleat (sic.) Idiot". To run below my
recovery ceiling, 70% MHR, is just faster than my fastest walking pace.
I have been on this program for 2 weeks. About how long will it be
before I see results and has anyone else seen benefits using this
method?

Have a look at "Cutting-edge runner" from Matt Fitzgerald. I am roughly at
the same place you are, and following his advice had me increasing my
speed and distance (slowly) relatively easily. It's a heck of a book.

Yves.
----
Yves Dorfsman
http://www.cuug.ab.ca/dorfsmay
http://www.SollerS.ca