General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Before you cite a "study" or "report" here, read this.

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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1 June 2005
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2 June 2005
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montygram
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  1. It reiterates much of what I have said in previous posts. In
    particular, if there is no underlying mechanism that is directly
    related to real science (for example, "nutrition" must be reducible to
    biochemistry, which then can't conflict with basic chemical laws -
    unless you want to do the experiment and demonstrate that these
    fundamental laws are incorrect), then put it aside if you can't explain
    it in a rigorous way at this point. It might be helpful in the future,
    but for now, you SHOULD NOT base important decisions on such
    studies/reports.

    Source: sciencedaily.com
    5/31/2005
    Researchers Largely At Fault For Health Risk Studies That Influence And
    Confuse The Public

    ATLANTA, May 23 -- The general public may not be reading the Archives
    of General Psychiatry or the New England Journal of Medicine, but they
    are basing important health care decisions and lifestyle changes on the
    research findings that these and other journals publish, particularly
    when such findings concern risk factors. Moreover, these scientific
    reports frequently are interpreted by clinicians, policy makers and the
    news media as calls to action, only later to be refuted or questioned
    by conflicting studies that may even claim serious and harmful
    consequences from those actions.

    "What is a risk? What is a risk factor? Are all risk factors equal?
    What is the threshold for true clinical significance? The general
    public can't be expected to understand these questions, let alone know
    the answers. Yet, ultimately, they are the ones who are most affected
    by journal articles that include words like 'risk' that even some of us
    working in research are not accurately defining," David J. Kupfer,
    M.D., the Thomas P. Detre Professor and chairman of the department of
    psychiatry at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, told his
    colleagues at the American Psychiatric Association Annual Meeting.

    Researchers must be more rigorous in how they design and conduct
    clinical studies as well as be more mindful of the language they use to
    describe their findings in the scientific literature or in writing
    reviews of other research, asserted Dr. Kupfer in a session devoted to
    discussion about risk factors in medicine and psychiatry.

    Dr. Kupfer is co-author of the recently published To Your Health: How
    to Understand What Research Tells Us About Risk (Oxford University
    Press, 2005).

    According to Dr. Kupfer, a look at the past year's newspaper headlines
    about antidepressants being linked to increased risk of suicide in
    children and adolescents exemplifies how research influences society
    and yet can paint a confusing picture.

    "In truth, these studies, which received much attention from the press,
    overestimated the risk and underestimated the benefit of prescribing
    antidepressants to children and teens. But clinicians and parents alike
    were at a loss to understand their meaning."

    "How do we sort out these contradictions?" questioned Dr. Kupfer. "We
    have a responsibility to the general public, who on a daily basis hear
    about new findings or ways to reduce risks of disease that are
    extrapolated from a study and then reported by the media. But too
    often, these reports are confusing or include data taken out of context
    and offer conflicting information about what puts us at risk for
    diseases."

    Dr. Kupfer believes that to advance medical science and promote public
    health, research must be both flawless and accurately presented.

    In order to generate more reliable and meaningful findings, Dr. Kupfer
    urges researchers to be more precise in defining, understanding and
    evaluating types of risk factors, including their statistical and
    clinical significance, and be more discerning of others' published
    results that may form the basis to their own research or can be cited
    in their own publications.

    "If we are rigorous in organizing, conducting, presenting and
    evaluating scientific research -- specifically psychiatric research --
    then we are taking important steps in fitting this research into the
    larger framework of discovering the causes and ways to prevent diseases
    and disorders. Researchers are on the front line of accomplishing these
    changes. We are responsible for the quality of the studies that we
    conduct and for the interpretation of our studies to the media, the
    general public and our colleagues. These new standards are aimed at
    raising the bar and will ultimately encourage well-designed and
    correctly interpreted research that will help in our shared goal of
    advancing science," said Dr. Kupfer.

  2. "montygram" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    It reiterates much of what I have said in previous posts. In
    particular, if there is no underlying mechanism that is directly

    Free flow of information is more important than you spoon feeding us.
    Thankyou

  3. I can't stop someone from posting anything, nor has that thought ever
    entered my mind. I was suggesting that people think about the numerous
    variables and specious "correlations." But this speaks for itself, and
    interestingly enough, there was another report on sciencedaily today
    that talked about lipid peroxides and vasospasms. The more research
    you do, the more you realize that not only is the evidence very strong
    for the various free radical mediated damage claims, but that therre is
    no other hypothesis that fits the data, except as a secondary
    phenomenon (secondary to damage done by particular radical species).

  4. montygram said:

    It reiterates much of what I have said in previous posts. In
    particular, if there is no underlying mechanism that is directly
    related to real science (for example, "nutrition" must be reducible to
    biochemistry, which then can't conflict with basic chemical laws -
    unless you want to do the experiment and demonstrate that these
    fundamental laws are incorrect), then put it aside if you can't explain
    it in a rigorous way at this point. It might be helpful in the future,
    but for now, you SHOULD NOT base important decisions on such
    studies/reports.

    Source: sciencedaily.com
    5/31/2005
    Researchers Largely At Fault For Health Risk Studies That Influence And
    Confuse The Public

    ATLANTA, May 23 -- The general public may not be reading the Archives
    of General Psychiatry or the New England Journal of Medicine, but they
    are basing important health care decisions and lifestyle changes on the
    research findings that these and other journals publish, particularly
    when such findings concern risk factors. Moreover, these scientific
    reports frequently are interpreted by clinicians, policy makers and the
    news media as calls to action, only later to be refuted or questioned
    by conflicting studies that may even claim serious and harmful
    consequences from those actions.

    "What is a risk? What is a risk factor? Are all risk factors equal?
    What is the threshold for true clinical significance? The general
    public can't be expected to understand these questions, let alone know
    the answers. Yet, ultimately, they are the ones who are most affected
    by journal articles that include words like 'risk' that even some of us
    working in research are not accurately defining," David J. Kupfer,
    M.D., the Thomas P. Detre Professor and chairman of the department of
    psychiatry at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, told his
    colleagues at the American Psychiatric Association Annual Meeting.

    Researchers must be more rigorous in how they design and conduct
    clinical studies as well as be more mindful of the language they use to
    describe their findings in the scientific literature or in writing
    reviews of other research, asserted Dr. Kupfer in a session devoted to
    discussion about risk factors in medicine and psychiatry.

    Dr. Kupfer is co-author of the recently published To Your Health: How
    to Understand What Research Tells Us About Risk (Oxford University
    Press, 2005).

    According to Dr. Kupfer, a look at the past year's newspaper headlines
    about antidepressants being linked to increased risk of suicide in
    children and adolescents exemplifies how research influences society
    and yet can paint a confusing picture.

    "In truth, these studies, which received much attention from the press,
    overestimated the risk and underestimated the benefit of prescribing
    antidepressants to children and teens. But clinicians and parents alike
    were at a loss to understand their meaning."

    "How do we sort out these contradictions?" questioned Dr. Kupfer. "We
    have a responsibility to the general public, who on a daily basis hear
    about new findings or ways to reduce risks of disease that are
    extrapolated from a study and then reported by the media. But too
    often, these reports are confusing or include data taken out of context
    and offer conflicting information about what puts us at risk for
    diseases."

    Dr. Kupfer believes that to advance medical science and promote public
    health, research must be both flawless and accurately presented.

    In order to generate more reliable and meaningful findings, Dr. Kupfer
    urges researchers to be more precise in defining, understanding and
    evaluating types of risk factors, including their statistical and
    clinical significance, and be more discerning of others' published
    results that may form the basis to their own research or can be cited
    in their own publications.

    "If we are rigorous in organizing, conducting, presenting and
    evaluating scientific research -- specifically psychiatric research --
    then we are taking important steps in fitting this research into the
    larger framework of discovering the causes and ways to prevent diseases
    and disorders. Researchers are on the front line of accomplishing these
    changes. We are responsible for the quality of the studies that we
    conduct and for the interpretation of our studies to the media, the
    general public and our colleagues. These new standards are aimed at
    raising the bar and will ultimately encourage well-designed and
    correctly interpreted research that will help in our shared goal of
    advancing science," said Dr. Kupfer.

    Publishers of scientific journals must have zero affiliation with any
    specific industry. No advertising, no grants, nothing. They should get
    their operating funding from government. The govt should get these
    funds by taxing the appropriate industries to similar levels as they
    currently spend on "research".

    Authors should have to declare *any* funding from industry or *any*
    past affiliations with industry in *full* upon submission of papers to
    the journals. Onerous penalties, including refusal to publish any
    future papers, for those who try to hide anything.

    Publishers should ruthlessly cull out any papers that even remotely
    smack of industry influence.

    Governments should increase funding of research thru the NIHs.

    The NIHs should accept industry funding and place it in a general
    funding pool to support all kinds of research. In fact the NIH should
    tax or otherwise extract funds from industry specifically for this
    purpose. This will avoid a specific company funding a specific study
    that they then attempt to influence directly.

    Until these kinds of standards are instituted we will have the
    continuation of the current mish-mash of industry funded and industry
    influenced "science" that contradicts itself and makes a mockery of the
    independence and scientific credibility of the science as a whole. What
    we have now isn't science, it is nothing more than industry marketing
    and jockeying for sales.

    Obviously there is real science being done somewhere but it is buried
    by the avalanche of marketing "science" being foisted upon us by
    industry.

    TC

  5. On 2 Jun 2005 07:15:23 -0700, TC wrote in
    <news:[email hidden]> on
    sci.med.nutrition :

    Quoted message said:

    Publishers of scientific journals must have zero affiliation with any
    specific industry.

    That would be difficult.

    Quoted message said:

    No advertising, no grants, nothing. They should get
    their operating funding from government.

    That would also mean less funds and more influence of the government on
    research. Not *always* a good thing.

    Quoted message said:

    The govt should get these
    funds by taxing the appropriate industries to similar levels as they
    currently spend on "research".

    That would be communism, wouldn't it? 😉)

    Quoted message said:

    Authors should have to declare *any* funding from industry or *any*
    past affiliations with industry in *full* upon submission of papers to
    the journals.

    *That* bit makes sense to me, really. I couldn't agree more.

    [...]

    --
    Enrico C
    ==================================

  6. Enrico C said:

    On 2 Jun 2005 07:15:23 -0700, TC wrote in
    <news:[email hidden]> on
    sci.med.nutrition :

    Quoted message said:

    Publishers of scientific journals must have zero affiliation with any
    specific industry.

    That would be difficult.

    Yep, independence from industry and the enhanced scientific crediblity
    that that brings won't be easy to achieve. No one said that it would
    be. It is always easier to take the money and run.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    No advertising, no grants, nothing. They should get
    their operating funding from government.

    That would also mean less funds and more influence of the government on
    research. Not *always* a good thing.

    Compared to influence of industry, it is a start. But in the US, govt
    influence is usually the same as industry influence. They are one and
    the same. Now there's a catch 22. Not only must you clean out industry
    corruption in science, you must now clean out the industry corruption
    in politics and govt. Yikes.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    The govt should get these
    funds by taxing the appropriate industries to similar levels as they
    currently spend on "research".

    That would be communism, wouldn't it? 😉)

    Some people may think so. Others may consider it proper checks and
    balance and arms-length overview.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    Authors should have to declare *any* funding from industry or *any*
    past affiliations with industry in *full* upon submission of papers to
    the journals.

    *That* bit makes sense to me, really. I couldn't agree more.

    [...]

    --
    Enrico C
    ==================================

    Transparency is the key to regaining credibility.

    TC

  7. There are two different things going on here. One is how media grab
    onto a study to make "news" fodder of it without the more indepth look
    that a news bite with an alarming headline doesn't allow. Two, there
    are great battles among researchers while a consensus is being formed
    over time and before enough of the angles of a particular question
    have been explored to discover what answers best fits what can be
    observed. In combination with the never ending appetite for items of
    media, researchers are too often eager to get their name before the
    public, especially if it adds to the image of being an expert to whom
    policy makers turn.

    Quoted message said:

    It reiterates much of what I have said in previous posts. In
    particular, if there is no underlying mechanism that is directly
    related to real science (for example, "nutrition" must be reducible to
    biochemistry, which then can't conflict with basic chemical laws -
    unless you want to do the experiment and demonstrate that these
    fundamental laws are incorrect), then put it aside if you can't explain
    it in a rigorous way at this point. It might be helpful in the future,
    but for now, you SHOULD NOT base important decisions on such
    studies/reports.

    Source: sciencedaily.com
    5/31/2005
    Researchers Largely At Fault For Health Risk Studies That Influence And
    Confuse The Public

    ATLANTA, May 23 -- The general public may not be reading the Archives
    of General Psychiatry or the New England Journal of Medicine, but they
    are basing important health care decisions and lifestyle changes on the
    research findings that these and other journals publish, particularly
    when such findings concern risk factors. Moreover, these scientific
    reports frequently are interpreted by clinicians, policy makers and the
    news media as calls to action, only later to be refuted or questioned
    by conflicting studies that may even claim serious and harmful
    consequences from those actions.

    "What is a risk? What is a risk factor? Are all risk factors equal?
    What is the threshold for true clinical significance? The general
    public can't be expected to understand these questions, let alone know
    the answers. Yet, ultimately, they are the ones who are most affected
    by journal articles that include words like 'risk' that even some of us
    working in research are not accurately defining," David J. Kupfer,
    M.D., the Thomas P. Detre Professor and chairman of the department of
    psychiatry at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, told his
    colleagues at the American Psychiatric Association Annual Meeting.

    Researchers must be more rigorous in how they design and conduct
    clinical studies as well as be more mindful of the language they use to
    describe their findings in the scientific literature or in writing
    reviews of other research, asserted Dr. Kupfer in a session devoted to
    discussion about risk factors in medicine and psychiatry.

    Dr. Kupfer is co-author of the recently published To Your Health: How
    to Understand What Research Tells Us About Risk (Oxford University
    Press, 2005).

    According to Dr. Kupfer, a look at the past year's newspaper headlines
    about antidepressants being linked to increased risk of suicide in
    children and adolescents exemplifies how research influences society
    and yet can paint a confusing picture.

    "In truth, these studies, which received much attention from the press,
    overestimated the risk and underestimated the benefit of prescribing
    antidepressants to children and teens. But clinicians and parents alike
    were at a loss to understand their meaning."

    "How do we sort out these contradictions?" questioned Dr. Kupfer. "We
    have a responsibility to the general public, who on a daily basis hear
    about new findings or ways to reduce risks of disease that are
    extrapolated from a study and then reported by the media. But too
    often, these reports are confusing or include data taken out of context
    and offer conflicting information about what puts us at risk for
    diseases."

    Dr. Kupfer believes that to advance medical science and promote public
    health, research must be both flawless and accurately presented.

    In order to generate more reliable and meaningful findings, Dr. Kupfer
    urges researchers to be more precise in defining, understanding and
    evaluating types of risk factors, including their statistical and
    clinical significance, and be more discerning of others' published
    results that may form the basis to their own research or can be cited
    in their own publications.

    "If we are rigorous in organizing, conducting, presenting and
    evaluating scientific research -- specifically psychiatric research --
    then we are taking important steps in fitting this research into the
    larger framework of discovering the causes and ways to prevent diseases
    and disorders. Researchers are on the front line of accomplishing these
    changes. We are responsible for the quality of the studies that we
    conduct and for the interpretation of our studies to the media, the
    general public and our colleagues. These new standards are aimed at
    raising the bar and will ultimately encourage well-designed and
    correctly interpreted research that will help in our shared goal of
    advancing science," said Dr. Kupfer.

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