Beef ban will hurt U.S.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2005/04/18/1002559-cp.html

PM: Beef ban will hurt U.S.

By ALEXANDER PANETTA

We aren't anyone's 'handmaiden': PM

GATINEAU, Que. (CP) - American meat packers will pay a long-term price
for policies which closed the border to Canadian beef, Prime Minister
Paul Martin warned Monday.

The closed border is forcing Canadian packers to expand and become
stronger competitors in the global market, he said. Canada is
increasing its slaughter capacity and will be less dependent on U.S.
packing plants once the border re-opens, he said.

"The net result of that is we will have the capacity once the border
opens up to export substantially into the United States," Martin told
an audience of foreign-policy experts.

"U.S. processors are (going) to suddenly realize that in fact what has
happened has not been in their interest."

Last month, Ottawa and the Alberta government pledged $80 million to
develop and expand new markets.

The federal Agriculture Department says Canadian processing capacity
shot up 26 per cent in 2004 and will increase further.

The federal Agriculture Department says Canadian plants were
slaughtering 76,000 cows a week when the border was closed in May 2003.

That number will increase to 98,000 by the end of this year - and
that's despite the current reduction in exports to the U.S.

American meat packing firms are laying off thousands and some are going
under without Canadian cows to process.

Martin suggested they'll be hit even harder when the U.S. and
international borders finally open fully to Canadian beef.

"We are also going to have the capacity to target those great markets
of Europe, the great markets of Korea and Japan in a way we've never
done before," he said.

"Closing the border on an integrated industry is going to have been a
costly process for the United States."

*******

TC

I live in south Texas, in a county that is strong both in beef and oil.
Yet, beef prices in the local market here are as high as anywhere else, and
gas prices are actually higher than just about anywhere else in the state,
and almost as high as the national average. Go figure.

Jim Bard said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2005/04/18/1002559-cp.html

PM: Beef ban will hurt U.S.

By ALEXANDER PANETTA

We aren't anyone's 'handmaiden': PM

GATINEAU, Que. (CP) - American meat packers will pay a long-term

price

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for policies which closed the border to Canadian beef, Prime

Minister

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Paul Martin warned Monday.

The closed border is forcing Canadian packers to expand and become
stronger competitors in the global market, he said. Canada is
increasing its slaughter capacity and will be less dependent on

U.S.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

packing plants once the border re-opens, he said.

"The net result of that is we will have the capacity once the

border

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

opens up to export substantially into the United States," Martin

told

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

an audience of foreign-policy experts.

"U.S. processors are (going) to suddenly realize that in fact what

has

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

happened has not been in their interest."

Last month, Ottawa and the Alberta government pledged $80 million

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

develop and expand new markets.

The federal Agriculture Department says Canadian processing

capacity

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

shot up 26 per cent in 2004 and will increase further.

The federal Agriculture Department says Canadian plants were
slaughtering 76,000 cows a week when the border was closed in May

2003.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That number will increase to 98,000 by the end of this year - and
that's despite the current reduction in exports to the U.S.

American meat packing firms are laying off thousands and some are

going

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

under without Canadian cows to process.

Martin suggested they'll be hit even harder when the U.S. and
international borders finally open fully to Canadian beef.

"We are also going to have the capacity to target those great

markets

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of Europe, the great markets of Korea and Japan in a way we've

never

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

done before," he said.

"Closing the border on an integrated industry is going to have been

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

costly process for the United States."

*******

TC

Quoted message said:

I live in south Texas, in a county that is strong both in beef and

oil.

Quoted message said:

Yet, beef prices in the local market here are as high as anywhere

else, and

Quoted message said:

gas prices are actually higher than just about anywhere else in the

state,

Quoted message said:

and almost as high as the national average. Go figure.

The thing is, when you live in an area where all the freedoms belong to
corporations and businesses, the true average american working stiff
taxpayer gets screwed royally. When you vote republican and wave the
flag to support Bush's oil war in Iraq, you commit yourself to a system
that is more than willing to allow commercial interests to victimize
each other and the public in the name of freedom of commerce. Hence the
gas and beef price gouging that you have to live with. And you'll
notice that very few senator's and members of congress have their
children fighting overseas.

TC

"The thing is, when you live in an area where all the freedoms belong
to
corporations and businesses, the true average american working stiff
taxpayer gets screwed royally. When you vote republican and wave the
flag to support Bush's oil war in Iraq, you commit yourself to a system

that is more than willing to allow commercial interests to victimize
each other and the public in the name of freedom of commerce. Hence the

gas and beef price gouging that you have to live with. And you'll
notice that very few senator's and members of congress have their
children fighting overseas"

The thing is, when you're a spamming Canadian clown, you're just
laughable. We all know what a great powerhouse of economic power and
world freedom Canada is. BTW, how much do you pay for a gallon of gas
up there, Eh? Invented anything to replace it yet? Eh?

"And we have universal health care. No one goes to the poor house when
they get sick. Everyone gets to see a doctor and be treated with no out

of pocket cash outlay. "

Since it's all free, I suggest you go get in line to see a doctor.
That ought to take about an month, Eh? Then maybe you'll know what's
wrong with you. My diagnosis: Spamming Canadian clown syndrome from
drinking too much of your own bathwater.

Quoted message said:

"And we have universal health care. No one goes to the poor house

when

Quoted message said:

they get sick. Everyone gets to see a doctor and be treated with no

out

Quoted message said:

of pocket cash outlay. "

Since it's all free, I suggest you go get in line to see a doctor.
That ought to take about an month, Eh? Then maybe you'll know what's
wrong with you. My diagnosis: Spamming Canadian clown syndrome from
drinking too much of your own bathwater.

It never takes more than an hour at either the walk-in clinic, or to
see my family doctor at his office, or at the emergency dept. Sometimes
the emergency dept may take a bit longer depending on their workload on
any given day, but that happens down there too, doesn't it. There is no
paperwork, they just take my medical number. No bills, no payments, no
waiting. I've never heard of anyone being refused medical treatment for
lack of funds or lack of insurance. Life is good up here.

And our beef is still the best and safest in the world. Pretty soon
your beef industry will collapse and you'll have to buy our beef, so
you'll get to see just how good it is.

TC

"It never takes more than an hour at either the walk-in clinic, or to
see my family doctor at his office, or at the emergency dept. Sometimes

the emergency dept may take a bit longer depending on their workload on

any given day, but that happens down there too, doesn't it."

Oh really? Since you're so worried about the truth, here's a news
story for you. Seems this poor fellow in your superior Canadian
medical system had colon cancer and waited a month for surgery
following diagnosis. And apparently it was only a month wait because
his brother knew the surgeon, so he got preferential treatment.

Quoted message said:

From the story:

"The fact is, though, that Canada's system is riddled with problems,
many stemming from inadequate funding. As a result, delays of several
months are common before seeing a specialist or getting nonemergency
surgery.

For his part, Kioussis said the month he waited between seeing his
family doctor and his surgery did not seem unreasonable. He admitted,
though, that because of a personal connection between his brother and
the surgeon, the doctor operated on him just before he left for
vacation.

Full story:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/10/14/BUGR28JFEN59.DTL

Now if I were Canadian, I'd be a lot more worried about that than vague
scandals at the USDA which seem to be your obsession.

Quoted message said:

"It never takes more than an hour at either the walk-in clinic, or to
see my family doctor at his office, or at the emergency dept.

Sometimes

Quoted message said:

the emergency dept may take a bit longer depending on their workload

on

Quoted message said:

any given day, but that happens down there too, doesn't it."

Oh really? Since you're so worried about the truth, here's a news
story for you. Seems this poor fellow in your superior Canadian
medical system had colon cancer and waited a month for surgery
following diagnosis. And apparently it was only a month wait because
his brother knew the surgeon, so he got preferential treatment.

Quoted message said:

From the story:

"The fact is, though, that Canada's system is riddled with problems,
many stemming from inadequate funding. As a result, delays of several
months are common before seeing a specialist or getting nonemergency
surgery.

For his part, Kioussis said the month he waited between seeing his
family doctor and his surgery did not seem unreasonable. He admitted,
though, that because of a personal connection between his brother and
the surgeon, the doctor operated on him just before he left for
vacation.

Full story:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/10/14/BUGR28JFEN59.DTL

Quoted message said:

Now if I were Canadian, I'd be a lot more worried about that than

vague

Quoted message said:

scandals at the USDA which seem to be your obsession.

How many Americans have no health coverage whatsoever?

TC

rich said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

And we have universal health care. No one goes to the poor house

when

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

they get sick.

No, they come the the US so they don't have to wait in line for

months or

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years to get treated.

I like how you guys, who have no experience with the Canadian health
care system, know everything about it. Experts without really knowing
anything.

I live in Canada,and your perceptions are basically the exception and
most definitely not the rule.

The facts are that all Canadians have access to health care. Period.

Quoted message said:

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Everyone gets to see a doctor and be treated with no out
of pocket cash outlay.

Except for those pesky taxes that fund the whole thing.

The difference being that we use our taxes to fund health care which
benefits all Canadians.

You guys use your taxes to expand Bush's cronies' stranglehold on the
world oil supply at the expense of billions of dollars of tax money,
thousands of Iraqi civilians and thousands upon thousands of American
soldiers. And no-one in the US except Bush and his cronies actualy
benefit from these actions.

I'd rather see our govt spend on universal health care than on bombs
and guns and killing (all for oil profits).

And our beef is still safer than the US's.

TC

"You guys use your taxes to expand Bush's cronies' stranglehold on the
world oil supply at the expense of billions of dollars of tax money,
thousands of Iraqi civilians and thousands upon thousands of American
soldiers. And no-one in the US except Bush and his cronies actualy
benefit from these actions. "

Yeah it would be nice if the US could live like Canada does, spend
little on defense and rely on a big benevolent country to the south to
keep the world safe for democracy. Who do you think shouldered the
burden of keeping the world free from commies the last half century?
Did it bother you how much the US spent on defense when our nukes kept
the Russians at bay? But like most of the rest of the word, you have a
short memory, little knowledge of history, no gratitude, only contempt.
Eh?

Quoted message said:

"You guys use your taxes to expand Bush's cronies' stranglehold on

the

Quoted message said:

world oil supply at the expense of billions of dollars of tax money,
thousands of Iraqi civilians and thousands upon thousands of American
soldiers. And no-one in the US except Bush and his cronies actualy
benefit from these actions. "

Yeah it would be nice if the US could live like Canada does, spend
little on defense and rely on a big benevolent country to the south

to

Quoted message said:

keep the world safe for democracy.

Well, when you aren't stomping on everyones feet internationally, there
really is no need for a huge "defense" dept. There is a reason why the
US is being attacked and not Canada, and it has nothing to do with
foreigners hating democracy like Bush said.

Who do you think shouldered the

Quoted message said:

burden of keeping the world free from commies the last half century?

Right now Canada has at least one Province being run by a socialist
government. And the national govt of Canada if definitely left of
centre on social issues. Sounds like you guys failed to keep the whole
world free of socialism.

And isn't "keeping the world free of commies" not a euphemism for
"keeping the world under the thumb of big business".

Quoted message said:

Did it bother you how much the US spent on defense when our nukes

kept

Quoted message said:

the Russians at bay?

You don't really believe that do you? Those billions were spent to line
the pockets of the military-industrial complex. Not to "keep nukes at
bay". Even you can't be that naive. And Bush is currently pushing to
implement a shield defense plan that has been shown to not even work in
the real world. But billions will be spent anyways. And you guys think
it will actually help defend your country.

Well, at least it isn't my tax money being wasted by the billions.

But like most of the rest of the word, you have a

Quoted message said:

short memory, little knowledge of history, no gratitude, only

contempt.

Quoted message said:

Eh?

I have a great memory. Iran, Vietnam, Korea, Panama.

I have gratitude. I am truly grateful that my tax money goes towards
health care and not some pie in the sky nonsensical defense shield. Or
to invade a country that had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. I am
grateful that my kids will never die in an oil-grab war.

There are reasons why the US is almost universally despised across the
entire world. You ought to do some historical research so that you can
understand why. Your history books will not tell you of the atrocities
that occurred with tacit US approval in Iran, Iraq, Central America,
etc.

And Canada still has the safest beef supply in the world.

TC

"Well, when you aren't stomping on everyones feet internationally,
there
really is no need for a huge "defense" dept. There is a reason why the
US is being attacked and not Canada, and it has nothing to do with
foreigners hating democracy like Bush said."

Yeah dream on. Like I stated, your ignorance of world history is
shocking. You sound like England and France on the eve of WWII. The
simple fact is there is evil in the world and countries that would do
great harm to the world, if left unchecked. What do you think would
have happend to the world had the US not stood up to the likes of
Stalin? Think he would have stopped with merely killing 20mil of his
own people? Or maybe by now he's have plowed your sorry ass under?
It's easy to lay low and not stand up to evil, then claim that when a
country like the US does, we're in the wrong. It's like people
watching someone get raped on the street and not calling the police or
running out with a gun to try to stop it. Then when someone else does,
saying "Well, look what happened, now you got hurt too!"

And as for the US being attacked and not Canada, then how do you
explain all the other countries hit by terrorism? The list is almost
endless. Canada's time will come, especially since you let anyone land
in your country, declare they are a political prisoner, finger print
them, take a pic, and send them on their way, without any
investigation. The entire process takes about an hour. If I were up
there, I'd be more worried about that than US beef, Eh? And when
Canada gets hit, I won't be blaming you, no matter how stupid you or
your immigration policies might be. I'll be blaming the ones who
actually did it.

"Right now Canada has at least one Province being run by a socialist
government. And the national govt of Canada if definitely left of
centre on social issues. Sounds like you guys failed to keep the whole
world free of socialism.
And isn't "keeping the world free of commies" not a euphemism for
"keeping the world under the thumb of big business". "

Apparently you don't understand the difference between socialism and
communism. Ever here of the former Soviet Union, North Korea and
China.? That's what we're talking about, not some socialists in
Canada.

"You don't really believe that do you? Those billions were spent to
line
the pockets of the military-industrial complex. Not to "keep nukes at
bay". Even you can't be that naive. And Bush is currently pushing to
implement a shield defense plan that has been shown to not even work in

the real world. But billions will be spent anyways. And you guys think
it will actually help defend your country. "

Yes I believe it, because it is true. Those trillions were spent
keeping the world free. Again, you sound like the naive leaders on the
eve of WWII. Ohh, [censored]'s not so bad. We don't need to arm, lets
just all get along. See where it got them? But losers like you never
learn.
As for SDI, it's an excellent idea and the sooner we have a shield the
better. BTW, if a mad man like Kim Ill Jong has a bad hair day and
decides to launch, we might even shoot one down on it's way to Canada.
Oh, I forgot, that won't happen, cause instead of standing up to mass
murders like him, you just go hide.

"I have a great memory. Iran, Vietnam, Korea, Panama.

There are reasons why the US is almost universally despised across the
entire world. You ought to do some historical research so that you can
understand why. Your history books will not tell you of the atrocities
that occurred with tacit US approval in Iran, Iraq, Central America,
etc. "

That's an interesting list. Korea? South Korea is a free and thriving
democracy thanks in good part to the US. But it was a UN effort, but
apparently being an ignoramus, you don't know that. I guess you'd
prefer it be communist with 20mil people starving to death.

Iran? As I recall, there was a guy there called the Shah, that the US
helped put in power in the 50's. Under him, the country prospered.
Yeah, he was a dictator, but unlike some recent examples, he was more
in the line of Franco in Spain. He built hospital, universities,
educated an illiterate population and lifted the country out of
poverty. Along the way, he locked up some political loonies. Then,
guys like you and Jimmy Carter, said, ohhhh that's bad, you should let
them go. Well, that happened and look where they are now. The nuts
that the Shah had locked up and under control have taken over, the
people are more oppressed than ever, and the leaders are busy building
nuclear weapons and funding terrorism. And you have the nerve to use
that as an example?

I could go on, but it's kind of pointless when the examples you bring
up just defeat your own case. Maybe you should stick to the BS beef
stuff, Eh?

Quoted message said:

"Well, when you aren't stomping on everyones feet internationally,
there
really is no need for a huge "defense" dept. There is a reason why

the

Quoted message said:

US is being attacked and not Canada, and it has nothing to do with
foreigners hating democracy like Bush said."

Yeah dream on. Like I stated, your ignorance of world history is
shocking. You sound like England and France on the eve of WWII. The
simple fact is there is evil in the world and countries that would do
great harm to the world, if left unchecked.

What countries, exactly, would do great harm to the world, that is,
other than the US?

What do you think would

Quoted message said:

have happend to the world had the US not stood up to the likes of
Stalin? Think he would have stopped with merely killing 20mil of his
own people? Or maybe by now he's have plowed your sorry ass under?
It's easy to lay low and not stand up to evil, then claim that when a
country like the US does, we're in the wrong. It's like people
watching someone get raped on the street and not calling the police

or

Quoted message said:

running out with a gun to try to stop it. Then when someone else

does,

Quoted message said:

saying "Well, look what happened, now you got hurt too!"

Last time I looked, during WORLD War 2, the *ALLIES* fought the Axis
countries.

http://www.valourandhorror.com/DB/BACK/Allied_btleord.htm

But I guess from your point of view, the US fought and won every WW2
battle alone, right? Must be true, the only ones doing any fighting in
your war movies are the Marines, right? John Wayne led the way, right?

Quoted message said:

And as for the US being attacked and not Canada, then how do you
explain all the other countries hit by terrorism? The list is almost
endless. Canada's time will come, especially since you let anyone

land

Quoted message said:

in your country, declare they are a political prisoner, finger print
them, take a pic, and send them on their way, without any
investigation. The entire process takes about an hour. If I were

up

Quoted message said:

there, I'd be more worried about that than US beef, Eh? And when
Canada gets hit, I won't be blaming you, no matter how stupid you or
your immigration policies might be. I'll be blaming the ones who
actually did it.

You may not have noticed that the countries being hit are those
countries that followed the US blindly into Iraq, or has done something
else to alienate the arab world. There usually is a reason for these
people to want to hit you. They don't just hit at countries at random,
you know.

Actually Canada does a pretty good job of screening people coming in.

It was the US that allowed 20, or so, mostly SAUDI ARABIAN terrorists
to enter the country and take pilot training in the US. Canada had
pretty much nothing to do with it.

Quoted message said:

"Right now Canada has at least one Province being run by a socialist
government. And the national govt of Canada if definitely left of
centre on social issues. Sounds like you guys failed to keep the

whole

Quoted message said:

world free of socialism.
And isn't "keeping the world free of commies" not a euphemism for
"keeping the world under the thumb of big business". "

Apparently you don't understand the difference between socialism and
communism. Ever here of the former Soviet Union, North Korea and
China.? That's what we're talking about, not some socialists in
Canada.

Apparently you don't understand the similarities between socialism and
communism.

Quoted message said:

"You don't really believe that do you? Those billions were spent to
line
the pockets of the military-industrial complex. Not to "keep nukes at
bay". Even you can't be that naive. And Bush is currently pushing to
implement a shield defense plan that has been shown to not even work

in

Quoted message said:

the real world. But billions will be spent anyways. And you guys

think

Quoted message said:

it will actually help defend your country. "

Yes I believe it, because it is true. Those trillions were spent
keeping the world free. Again, you sound like the naive leaders on

the

Quoted message said:

eve of WWII. Ohh, [censored]'s not so bad. We don't need to arm, lets
just all get along. See where it got them? But losers like you

never

Quoted message said:

learn.

Free from what? A communist system that was bound to fail anyway? It
could be argued that the US's intransigence and belligerence against
the communist countries gave the communist leaders the excuse to impose
military rule and dictatorships. Without the outside threat of the US,
they probably would not have been able to exercise the control that
they did. Korea is now using outside threats, no matter how
insignificant, as reasons to mobilize the populace into an aggressive
military posture.

Quoted message said:

As for SDI, it's an excellent idea and the sooner we have a shield

the

Quoted message said:

better. BTW, if a mad man like Kim Ill Jong has a bad hair day and
decides to launch, we might even shoot one down on it's way to

Canada.

Quoted message said:

Oh, I forgot, that won't happen, cause instead of standing up to mass
murders like him, you just go hide.

SDI does not work. It has yet to do what it was designed to do in
testing. What is the point of a defense system that does not work. And
if the US left N. Korea alone, their govt would not be able to sustain
the military dictatorship they have.

Quoted message said:

"I have a great memory. Iran, Vietnam, Korea, Panama.

There are reasons why the US is almost universally despised across

the

Quoted message said:

entire world. You ought to do some historical research so that you

can

Quoted message said:

understand why. Your history books will not tell you of the

atrocities

Quoted message said:

that occurred with tacit US approval in Iran, Iraq, Central America,
etc. "

That's an interesting list. Korea? South Korea is a free and

thriving

Quoted message said:

democracy thanks in good part to the US. But it was a UN effort, but
apparently being an ignoramus, you don't know that. I guess you'd
prefer it be communist with 20mil people starving to death.

You guys got your asses kicked in Korea. So what if some tiny peninsula
in the pacific becomes communist. They are right up against the border
of China. How does that threaten the US? Was it worth the thousands of
dead soldiers? Globally, Korea being communist is irrelevant.

Quoted message said:

Iran? As I recall, there was a guy there called the Shah, that the

US

Quoted message said:

helped put in power in the 50's. Under him, the country prospered.
Yeah, he was a dictator, but unlike some recent examples, he was more
in the line of Franco in Spain. He built hospital, universities,
educated an illiterate population and lifted the country out of
poverty. Along the way, he locked up some political loonies. Then,
guys like you and Jimmy Carter, said, ohhhh that's bad, you should

let

Quoted message said:

them go. Well, that happened and look where they are now. The nuts
that the Shah had locked up and under control have taken over, the
people are more oppressed than ever, and the leaders are busy

building

Quoted message said:

nuclear weapons and funding terrorism. And you have the nerve to use
that as an example?

The country prospered under the Shah????? That is like saying Germany
prospered under [censored]. It may look good on paper but the reality was
very different. The Shah sits in the same league as Stalin, Hussein,
[censored] and Amin. He was a despot of the worst possible kind. And the
only prospering that occurred under his rule was for himself, his
family, and British Petroleum.

Before Pahlavi, Iran was a democracy. You know, that institution that
Bush claims to want to bring to the Middle East?

The US, on the behest of the British govt and British Petroleum,
succeeded in overthrowing the only true democracy that any Middle
Eastern country ever saw. And they did it specifically for the oil
industry.

And that was the key betrayal that has led to Arabs utterly despising
the US. That is the one major dishonest and brutal event that has led
to the US being one of the most despised countries in the world. And
what solidified it was the US's brutal involvement in central america
and cuba.

Quoted message said:

I could go on, but it's kind of pointless when the examples you bring
up just defeat your own case. Maybe you should stick to the BS beef
stuff, Eh?

You better research your history a bit better. I think the american
schools and your american movie industry only gave you part of the
story.

And Canadian beef is still the safest in the world. Unlike in the US
where they've chosen to hide all the incidences of BSE instead of
dealing with the problem.

TC

"countries, exactly, would do great harm to the world, that is, other
than the US? "

Typical psycho view, no evil anywhere but the US. How about North
Korea, or isn't slowly starving 25mil people to death while saber
rattling and making threats against the free people in South Korea
enough? Or Iran, hell bent on acquiring WMDs and killiing infidels,
while their people live in hell with no freedom. Or Sudan, where they
are openly committing genocide, while Koffi Anan and the UN look the
other way? Or the Balkans of a few years ago, remember the mass
graves?

"Last time I looked, during WORLD War 2, the *ALLIES* fought the Axis
countries. "

What does this have to do with Stalin being a monster who killed 20mil
of his own people and would have rolled right over western europe at
the end of WWII had the US let him? Remember the Berlin airlift?

"You may not have noticed that the countries being hit are those
countries that followed the US blindly into Iraq, or has done something

else to alienate the arab world. There usually is a reason for these
people to want to hit you. They don't just hit at countries at random,
you know. "

Yes, continue to appease the lunatic fanatics that want to kill you.
Hide under your bed like the little commie pinko bed wetter that you
are, rather than standing up to evil and recognizing it for what it is.
According the Bin Ladin, one of his main points for attacking the US
is that we sent troops to Saudi Arabia to kick Iraq the hell out of
Kuwait. Wasn't that a UN sanctioned event? Should we just have let
Iraq take Kuwait? Yet another example of the US doing the heavy
lifting, then scum bags like you blaming us for anything that goes
wrong.

"Free from what? A communist system that was bound to fail anyway?"

Yes, according to you we should just have let the communists take over
the free world. Never mind that Stalin killed 20+mil, as did Mao.
Never mind that wherever they suceeded, they killed millions. We
should have just let them take western europe, canada, the us, all of
it, then sit back and wait for it to fail.

" It could be argued that the US's intransigence and belligerence
against
the communist countries gave the communist leaders the excuse to impose

military rule and dictatorships. Without the outside threat of the US,
they probably would not have been able to exercise the control that
they did. Korea is now using outside threats, no matter how
insignificant, as reasons to mobilize the populace into an aggressive
military posture"

Yes, I know, it's all the US's fault. I'm getting used to it. As for
Korea, they have been aggressive in their military programs all along
regardless of what the US or anyone else did. Maybe we should send
Jimmy Carter back over there to make nice with them. That's your
style. Give em some more oil, food, and nuclear reactors if they
promise to behave. That's exactly what we did last time and even they
now admit they went right on developing nuclear weapons secretly anyway
and lied about it.

"SDI does not work. It has yet to do what it was designed to do in
testing. What is the point of a defense system that does not work."

Why don't you stick to cows and leave hi tech to people that understand
it. One would think a guy that wants to hide from the real world,
would at least want a defense shield. We're not supposed to take
pre-emptive action to eliminate programs in the hands of mad men like
Kim Ill Jong. Now according to you, we're not even supposed to try to
defend ourselves from it.

Now pay attention here and learn. In the late 50's, the US had one
launch failure after another as we tried to get the first rockets into
the sky. Try watching the Discovery channel instead of cartoons and
you'll see lots of clips of them blowing up one after the other on the
launch pad. A decade later, we landed on the moon. BTW, Canada been
there yet? Eh?

"You guys got your asses kicked in Korea. So what if some tiny
peninsula
in the pacific becomes communist. They are right up against the border
of China. How does that threaten the US? Was it worth the thousands of
dead soldiers? Globally, Korea being communist is irrelevant"

It's clear you don't even realize that Canada had a substantial number
of troops in Korea as well as casualties. It wasn't just our war, it
was Canada's war too. Yes, the US, as usual, did the heavy lifting,
but Canada was there too. And I find this so remarkable, that even a
war against an aggressor by the forces of the UN gets turned into
something bad the US did. Clearly you have little value for human
life, other than your own. I salute the Canadian veterans for their
heroic effort.

As to how it threatened the US, if no one stood up to communist
invasions anywhere, it's not unreasonable to expect that they would
proceed onward. Where would you draw the line? Japan? Hawaii?
Berlin? Today 50mil South Koreans are living in freedom and
prosperity because countries of the world, including Canada, took a
stand and did the right thing.

"The Shah sits in the same league as Stalin, Hussein,
[censored] and Amin. He was a despot of the worst possible kind. And the
only prospering that occurred under his rule was for himself, his
family, and British Petroleum"

This just shows your ignorance. If you don't know the difference
between Stalin and the Shah, there's little hope for you. The
education level, the number of schools, per capita income, health care,
life expectency, all were drastically higher when the shah left than
when he entered power. Here's an excerpt of what really happenedn from
a website with Iranian history:
///
In the context of regional turmoil and the Cold War, the Shah
established himself as an indispensable ally of the West. Domestically,
he advocated reform policies, culminating in the 1963 program known as
the White Revolution, which included land reform, the extension of
voting rights to women, and the elimination of illiteracy.

These measures and the increasing arbitrariness of the Shah's rule
provoked both religious leaders who feared losing their traditional
authority and intellectuals seeking democratic reforms. These opponents
criticized the Shah for violation of the constitution, which placed
limits on royal power and provided for a representative government, and
for subservience to the United States. The Shah saw himself as heir to
the kings of ancient Iran, and in 1971 he held an extravagant
celebration of 2,500 years of Persian monarchy. In 1976 he replaced the
Islamic calendar with an "imperial" calendar, which began with the
foundation of the Persian empire more than 25 centuries earlier. These
actions were viewed as anti-Islamic and resulted in religious
opposition.
///

Pay attention to programs to end illiteracy, land reform, voting rights
for women. And of course this [censored] of the likes of Ayatollah
Khomeini, whom I'm sure you think was a great man and world leader. He
didn't want any freedoms for anyone, especially women and would like
nothing better than to take the country back 500 years in time. He
and his followers took over and now the world is living with the
results. And pay attention to the "intellectuals", who also helped
undo the shah. They sound suspiciously like you.

It is impossible to carry on a conversation with someone who so calmly
and methodically revises history to his liking. You must be an American
republican.

TC

Quoted message said:

"countries, exactly, would do great harm to the world, that is, other
than the US? "

Typical psycho view, no evil anywhere but the US. How about North
Korea, or isn't slowly starving 25mil people to death while saber
rattling and making threats against the free people in South Korea
enough? Or Iran, hell bent on acquiring WMDs and killiing infidels,
while their people live in hell with no freedom. Or Sudan, where

they

Quoted message said:

are openly committing genocide, while Koffi Anan and the UN look the
other way? Or the Balkans of a few years ago, remember the mass
graves?

"Last time I looked, during WORLD War 2, the *ALLIES* fought the Axis
countries. "

What does this have to do with Stalin being a monster who killed

20mil

Quoted message said:

of his own people and would have rolled right over western europe at
the end of WWII had the US let him? Remember the Berlin airlift?

"You may not have noticed that the countries being hit are those
countries that followed the US blindly into Iraq, or has done

something

Quoted message said:

else to alienate the arab world. There usually is a reason for these
people to want to hit you. They don't just hit at countries at

random,

Quoted message said:

you know. "

Yes, continue to appease the lunatic fanatics that want to kill you.
Hide under your bed like the little commie pinko bed wetter that you
are, rather than standing up to evil and recognizing it for what it

is.

Quoted message said:

According the Bin Ladin, one of his main points for attacking the US
is that we sent troops to Saudi Arabia to kick Iraq the hell out of
Kuwait. Wasn't that a UN sanctioned event? Should we just have let
Iraq take Kuwait? Yet another example of the US doing the heavy
lifting, then scum bags like you blaming us for anything that goes
wrong.

"Free from what? A communist system that was bound to fail anyway?"

Yes, according to you we should just have let the communists take

over

Quoted message said:

the free world. Never mind that Stalin killed 20+mil, as did Mao.
Never mind that wherever they suceeded, they killed millions. We
should have just let them take western europe, canada, the us, all of
it, then sit back and wait for it to fail.

" It could be argued that the US's intransigence and belligerence
against
the communist countries gave the communist leaders the excuse to

impose

Quoted message said:

military rule and dictatorships. Without the outside threat of the

US,

Quoted message said:

they probably would not have been able to exercise the control that
they did. Korea is now using outside threats, no matter how
insignificant, as reasons to mobilize the populace into an aggressive
military posture"

Yes, I know, it's all the US's fault. I'm getting used to it. As

for

Quoted message said:

Korea, they have been aggressive in their military programs all along
regardless of what the US or anyone else did. Maybe we should send
Jimmy Carter back over there to make nice with them. That's your
style. Give em some more oil, food, and nuclear reactors if they
promise to behave. That's exactly what we did last time and even

they

Quoted message said:

now admit they went right on developing nuclear weapons secretly

anyway

Quoted message said:

and lied about it.

"SDI does not work. It has yet to do what it was designed to do in
testing. What is the point of a defense system that does not work."

Why don't you stick to cows and leave hi tech to people that

understand

Quoted message said:

it. One would think a guy that wants to hide from the real world,
would at least want a defense shield. We're not supposed to take
pre-emptive action to eliminate programs in the hands of mad men like
Kim Ill Jong. Now according to you, we're not even supposed to try

to

Quoted message said:

defend ourselves from it.

Now pay attention here and learn. In the late 50's, the US had one
launch failure after another as we tried to get the first rockets

into

Quoted message said:

the sky. Try watching the Discovery channel instead of cartoons and
you'll see lots of clips of them blowing up one after the other on

the

Quoted message said:

launch pad. A decade later, we landed on the moon. BTW, Canada been
there yet? Eh?

"You guys got your asses kicked in Korea. So what if some tiny
peninsula
in the pacific becomes communist. They are right up against the

border

Quoted message said:

of China. How does that threaten the US? Was it worth the thousands

of

Quoted message said:

dead soldiers? Globally, Korea being communist is irrelevant"

It's clear you don't even realize that Canada had a substantial

number

Quoted message said:

of troops in Korea as well as casualties. It wasn't just our war,

it

Quoted message said:

was Canada's war too. Yes, the US, as usual, did the heavy lifting,
but Canada was there too. And I find this so remarkable, that even a
war against an aggressor by the forces of the UN gets turned into
something bad the US did. Clearly you have little value for human
life, other than your own. I salute the Canadian veterans for their
heroic effort.

As to how it threatened the US, if no one stood up to communist
invasions anywhere, it's not unreasonable to expect that they would
proceed onward. Where would you draw the line? Japan? Hawaii?
Berlin? Today 50mil South Koreans are living in freedom and
prosperity because countries of the world, including Canada, took a
stand and did the right thing.

"The Shah sits in the same league as Stalin, Hussein,
[censored] and Amin. He was a despot of the worst possible kind. And the
only prospering that occurred under his rule was for himself, his
family, and British Petroleum"

This just shows your ignorance. If you don't know the difference
between Stalin and the Shah, there's little hope for you. The
education level, the number of schools, per capita income, health

care,

Quoted message said:

life expectency, all were drastically higher when the shah left than
when he entered power. Here's an excerpt of what really happenedn

from

Quoted message said:

a website with Iranian history:
///
In the context of regional turmoil and the Cold War, the Shah
established himself as an indispensable ally of the West.

Domestically,

Quoted message said:

he advocated reform policies, culminating in the 1963 program known

as

Quoted message said:

the White Revolution, which included land reform, the extension of
voting rights to women, and the elimination of illiteracy.

These measures and the increasing arbitrariness of the Shah's rule
provoked both religious leaders who feared losing their traditional
authority and intellectuals seeking democratic reforms. These

opponents

Quoted message said:

criticized the Shah for violation of the constitution, which placed
limits on royal power and provided for a representative government,

and

Quoted message said:

for subservience to the United States. The Shah saw himself as heir

to

Quoted message said:

the kings of ancient Iran, and in 1971 he held an extravagant
celebration of 2,500 years of Persian monarchy. In 1976 he replaced

the

Quoted message said:

Islamic calendar with an "imperial" calendar, which began with the
foundation of the Persian empire more than 25 centuries earlier.

These

Quoted message said:

actions were viewed as anti-Islamic and resulted in religious
opposition.
///

Pay attention to programs to end illiteracy, land reform, voting

rights

Quoted message said:

for women. And of course this [censored] of the likes of Ayatollah
Khomeini, whom I'm sure you think was a great man and world leader.

He

Quoted message said:

didn't want any freedoms for anyone, especially women and would like
nothing better than to take the country back 500 years in time. He
and his followers took over and now the world is living with the
results. And pay attention to the "intellectuals", who also helped
undo the shah. They sound suspiciously like you.

I belonged to a list for music, specifically 60s British Invasion
music... Well I left a while ago after being on for many years because
the politics of the lefty American haters of the world were just too
much. If you listen to anyone that don't live here in the US we are the
worst, most stupid, arrogant blah blah blah's in the world... Well that
is an opinion, and it's great... dot visit here. But whoever posted
about revisionist histories could not be more on target. I have traveled
the world, I travel the world, I travel so much I get 2 million air
miles a year from American Airlines. I know what's out there and I love
coming home. If you are an American all you need to do to be able to
voice your opinion (IMHO) is to serve in the military and vote). Then I
consider your point of view as valid as mine... As far as outsiders go,
I always find it laughable that the people that hate us the most have
never been here. If they were here and felt that way their opinion may
be at least credible
Warren

Quoted message said:

It is impossible to carry on a conversation with someone who so calmly
and methodically revises history to his liking. You must be an American
republican.

TC

Quoted message said:

"countries, exactly, would do great harm to the world, that is, other
than the US? "

Typical psycho view, no evil anywhere but the US. How about North
Korea, or isn't slowly starving 25mil people to death while saber
rattling and making threats against the free people in South Korea
enough? Or Iran, hell bent on acquiring WMDs and killiing infidels,
while their people live in hell with no freedom. Or Sudan, where

they

Quoted message said:

are openly committing genocide, while Koffi Anan and the UN look the
other way? Or the Balkans of a few years ago, remember the mass
graves?

"Last time I looked, during WORLD War 2, the *ALLIES* fought the Axis
countries. "

What does this have to do with Stalin being a monster who killed

20mil

Quoted message said:

of his own people and would have rolled right over western europe at
the end of WWII had the US let him? Remember the Berlin airlift?

"You may not have noticed that the countries being hit are those
countries that followed the US blindly into Iraq, or has done

something

Quoted message said:

else to alienate the arab world. There usually is a reason for these
people to want to hit you. They don't just hit at countries at

random,

Quoted message said:

you know. "

Yes, continue to appease the lunatic fanatics that want to kill you.
Hide under your bed like the little commie pinko bed wetter that you
are, rather than standing up to evil and recognizing it for what it

is.

Quoted message said:

According the Bin Ladin, one of his main points for attacking the US
is that we sent troops to Saudi Arabia to kick Iraq the hell out of
Kuwait. Wasn't that a UN sanctioned event? Should we just have let
Iraq take Kuwait? Yet another example of the US doing the heavy
lifting, then scum bags like you blaming us for anything that goes
wrong.

"Free from what? A communist system that was bound to fail anyway?"

Yes, according to you we should just have let the communists take

over

Quoted message said:

the free world. Never mind that Stalin killed 20+mil, as did Mao.
Never mind that wherever they suceeded, they killed millions. We
should have just let them take western europe, canada, the us, all of
it, then sit back and wait for it to fail.

" It could be argued that the US's intransigence and belligerence
against
the communist countries gave the communist leaders the excuse to

impose

Quoted message said:

military rule and dictatorships. Without the outside threat of the

US,

Quoted message said:

they probably would not have been able to exercise the control that
they did. Korea is now using outside threats, no matter how
insignificant, as reasons to mobilize the populace into an aggressive
military posture"

Yes, I know, it's all the US's fault. I'm getting used to it. As

for

Quoted message said:

Korea, they have been aggressive in their military programs all along
regardless of what the US or anyone else did. Maybe we should send
Jimmy Carter back over there to make nice with them. That's your
style. Give em some more oil, food, and nuclear reactors if they
promise to behave. That's exactly what we did last time and even

they

Quoted message said:

now admit they went right on developing nuclear weapons secretly

anyway

Quoted message said:

and lied about it.

"SDI does not work. It has yet to do what it was designed to do in
testing. What is the point of a defense system that does not work."

Why don't you stick to cows and leave hi tech to people that

understand

Quoted message said:

it. One would think a guy that wants to hide from the real world,
would at least want a defense shield. We're not supposed to take
pre-emptive action to eliminate programs in the hands of mad men like
Kim Ill Jong. Now according to you, we're not even supposed to try

to

Quoted message said:

defend ourselves from it.

Now pay attention here and learn. In the late 50's, the US had one
launch failure after another as we tried to get the first rockets

into

Quoted message said:

the sky. Try watching the Discovery channel instead of cartoons and
you'll see lots of clips of them blowing up one after the other on

the

Quoted message said:

launch pad. A decade later, we landed on the moon. BTW, Canada been
there yet? Eh?

"You guys got your asses kicked in Korea. So what if some tiny
peninsula
in the pacific becomes communist. They are right up against the

border

Quoted message said:

of China. How does that threaten the US? Was it worth the thousands

of

Quoted message said:

dead soldiers? Globally, Korea being communist is irrelevant"

It's clear you don't even realize that Canada had a substantial

number

Quoted message said:

of troops in Korea as well as casualties. It wasn't just our war,

it

Quoted message said:

was Canada's war too. Yes, the US, as usual, did the heavy lifting,
but Canada was there too. And I find this so remarkable, that even a
war against an aggressor by the forces of the UN gets turned into
something bad the US did. Clearly you have little value for human
life, other than your own. I salute the Canadian veterans for their
heroic effort.

As to how it threatened the US, if no one stood up to communist
invasions anywhere, it's not unreasonable to expect that they would
proceed onward. Where would you draw the line? Japan? Hawaii?
Berlin? Today 50mil South Koreans are living in freedom and
prosperity because countries of the world, including Canada, took a
stand and did the right thing.

"The Shah sits in the same league as Stalin, Hussein,
[censored] and Amin. He was a despot of the worst possible kind. And the
only prospering that occurred under his rule was for himself, his
family, and British Petroleum"

This just shows your ignorance. If you don't know the difference
between Stalin and the Shah, there's little hope for you. The
education level, the number of schools, per capita income, health

care,

Quoted message said:

life expectency, all were drastically higher when the shah left than
when he entered power. Here's an excerpt of what really happenedn

from

Quoted message said:

a website with Iranian history:
///
In the context of regional turmoil and the Cold War, the Shah
established himself as an indispensable ally of the West.

Domestically,

Quoted message said:

he advocated reform policies, culminating in the 1963 program known

as

Quoted message said:

the White Revolution, which included land reform, the extension of
voting rights to women, and the elimination of illiteracy.

These measures and the increasing arbitrariness of the Shah's rule
provoked both religious leaders who feared losing their traditional
authority and intellectuals seeking democratic reforms. These

opponents

Quoted message said:

criticized the Shah for violation of the constitution, which placed
limits on royal power and provided for a representative government,

and

Quoted message said:

for subservience to the United States. The Shah saw himself as heir

to

Quoted message said:

the kings of ancient Iran, and in 1971 he held an extravagant
celebration of 2,500 years of Persian monarchy. In 1976 he replaced

the

Quoted message said:

Islamic calendar with an "imperial" calendar, which began with the
foundation of the Persian empire more than 25 centuries earlier.

These

Quoted message said:

actions were viewed as anti-Islamic and resulted in religious
opposition.
///

Pay attention to programs to end illiteracy, land reform, voting

rights

Quoted message said:

for women. And of course this [censored] of the likes of Ayatollah
Khomeini, whom I'm sure you think was a great man and world leader.

He

Quoted message said:

didn't want any freedoms for anyone, especially women and would like
nothing better than to take the country back 500 years in time. He
and his followers took over and now the world is living with the
results. And pay attention to the "intellectuals", who also helped
undo the shah. They sound suspiciously like you.

"It is impossible to carry on a conversation with someone who so calmly

and methodically revises history to his liking. You must be an American

republican. "
TC

Guess you're gonna go take care of those Canadian cows, Eh? After the
whacko BS you've posted, we all know there's more madness in Canada
then just cows.

warren said:

I belonged to a list for music, specifically 60s British Invasion
music... Well I left a while ago after being on for many years

because

Quoted message said:

the politics of the lefty American haters of the world were just too
much. If you listen to anyone that don't live here in the US we are

the

Quoted message said:

worst, most stupid, arrogant blah blah blah's in the world... Well

that

Quoted message said:

is an opinion, and it's great... dot visit here. But whoever posted
about revisionist histories could not be more on target. I have

traveled

Quoted message said:

the world, I travel the world, I travel so much I get 2 million air
miles a year from American Airlines. I know what's out there and I

love

Quoted message said:

coming home. If you are an American all you need to do to be able to
voice your opinion (IMHO) is to serve in the military and vote). Then

I

Quoted message said:

consider your point of view as valid as mine... As far as outsiders

go,

Quoted message said:

I always find it laughable that the people that hate us the most have

Quoted message said:

never been here. If they were here and felt that way their opinion

may

Quoted message said:

be at least credible
Warren

Hmmmm.... according to you, a lot of people around the world believe
that americans are the worst, most stupid, arrogant blah blah blah....

But those opinions don't matter because these people haven't spent any
time in the US. ????

That does not make any sense.

Here's the deal. Most people around the world, myself included, have
nothing against americans, per se. We find you all individually
interesting people and we have no problem seeing you as nice personable
people.

The problem involves several things.

Sometimes, when in foreign countries, you, individualy, are what we
call "ugly" americans. Not all the time, but sometimes. The problem is
when you are "ugly" americans, you really are "ugly".

You abuse your economic powers. You guys insist that Canada is your
brother to the north. Then you destroy our softwood industry by
imposing 25% levies against our soft wood imports to the US. Then when
our combined north american cow herd produces a couple of cases of BSE,
you slam the border shut. And when we get the situation under control,
you keep it shut in a protectionist move that ignores the scientific
facts. There are doaens of instances where the US have severely harmed
the Canadian economy by imposing protectionist measures in spite and in
contravention of GATT and/or the NAFTA.

Iraq. You guys are [censored] that Canada didn't join you in the
quagmire. You seem to forget that Canada is sovereign and decides for
itself what wars they enter into. Your belligerence toward us about not
going to war was and is ridiculous. There was no justification
whatsoever for the war in Iraq. NONE. If you had listened to us in the
first place, you would have avoided wasting 300 *billion* dollars and
thousand of casualties. We, as your friends, tried to warn you and give
you guys some big hints about the inadvisability of going into Iraq,
but you got huffy and went ahead with it. And you still hold it against
us. And the fact that you guys bought into Bush's idiotic oil-grab-war
really illustrates just how gullible you guys are. But it pisses you
off that now you look like idiots and you lash out at us and the most
of the world who sees this as we do.

Here's another thing. The President and Congress are charged with
putting together international trade treaties. This is what makes all
your international trading possible. It affects not only the US economy
but many many countries around the world. It is vital for the
economies that trade with the US and the US itself. Now, the president
and congress fight for years to develop all kinds of trade treaties and
trade agreements and the economies hum. Then one tiny little district
court in Montana brings an entire industries trading to a screeching
halt. Now there are major questions about all the other areas of trade.
Is some tiny district judge going to halt all trading in grains?
Electric power? Electonics?

This judge has just created a massive international quandary for the US
govt. He has usurped the traditional role of the US Presidency and the
Congress. Everyone around the world who trades with the US is sitting
on pins and needles wondering what industry is going to be skewered by
some lonely little district judge somewhere in the US. And the
president and congress sits on their hands and do nothing.

You will find that all of the US's trading partners are going to back
away from being dependent in any way with the US for trade. They will
start to look elsewhere for trading partners, anywhere but the US. The
US has lost all credibility in the world of international trade. This
one lonely little district judge has started the end of US
international trade domination, and Bush and the congress is letting
him do it.

TC

"Sometimes, when in foreign countries, you, individualy, are what we
call "ugly" americans. Not all the time, but sometimes. The problem is
when you are "ugly" americans, you really are "ugly".
You abuse your economic powers. You guys insist that Canada is your
brother to the north. Then you destroy our softwood industry by
imposing 25% levies against our soft wood imports to the US. Then when
our combined north american cow herd produces a couple of cases of BSE,

you slam the border shut. "

Oh please. This is just another example of the blatant and ignorant
hatred of America that Warren is talking about. Whenever mad cow has
been found in any country, the reaction from most of the rest of the
world has been to ban temporarily the import of beef from that country.
Take a look at this:

"MONTREAL - Canadian and American agricultural scientists scrambled
yesterday to trace the history of a black Angus infected with mad cow
disease in Alberta while ranchers braced for possible economic disaster
as Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan, and South Korea joined the
United States in banning imports of all Candian beef and sheep
products. "

All these countries, plus more, banned Canadian beef, yet you
selectively point the finger at the evil USA?

Or how about this gem:

"CANADIAN BAN ON BRAZILIAN BEEF IMPORTS ESCALATES TRADE BATT"

Oh, I see it's OK for Canada to ban imports, but when the USA does it,
it's an abuse of our economic power.

And here's my favorite:

" Ottawa has imposed a temporary ban on some US beef products after a
case of mad cow disease was discovered in the state of Washington, as
the markets for US beef exports effectively shut down. "

So, when Canada bans US beef, it's just swell. Just reverse the
situation, and it's an example of why Ameicans are hated.

"Iraq. You guys are [censored] that Canada didn't join you in the
quagmire. You seem to forget that Canada is sovereign and decides for
itself what wars they enter into."

Any where is the evidence of this? I'm not [censored] at Canada, nor has
the US taken any action against Canada that I know of.

"You will find that all of the US's trading partners are going to back
away from being dependent in any way with the US for trade. They will
start to look elsewhere for trading partners, anywhere but the US. The
US has lost all credibility in the world of international trade. This
one lonely little district judge has started the end of US
international trade domination, and Bush and the congress is letting
him do it. "

See, we have this quirky system here in the US. It's called the
justice system. The President and Congress don't control it. Lots of
times they are as upset as you over decisions made by courts, but we
don't all go bonkers and blow it all out of proportion. As for
deciding who to trade with, that's up to you. You can take your
Canadian cows and go wherever you like.

Have you had enough yet? So far you've demonstrated a complete
ignorance of history, (eg thinking America got it's ass kicked in an
unjustified war in Korea, without realizing that brave Canadian troops
were there defending freedom too). Now you've demonstrated how totally
baseless and ignorant of the facts people like you are when they hate
the US. It's even better, cause the example you were dumb enough to
put forth is centered on your beloved Canadian beef and now you're just
demonstrated that you know less than nothing about that too! Your cows
must not be doing to well if they have you looking after them, Eh?

And when we get the situation under control,
you keep it shut in a protectionist move that ignores the scientific
facts. There are doaens of instances where the US have severely harmed
the Canadian economy by imposing protectionist measures in spite and in

contravention of GATT and/or the NAFTA.

Look I am no longer discussing this topic with you. You want to
re-write history, do it some place else.

TC

Quoted message said:

"Sometimes, when in foreign countries, you, individualy, are what we
call "ugly" americans. Not all the time, but sometimes. The problem

is

Quoted message said:

when you are "ugly" americans, you really are "ugly".
You abuse your economic powers. You guys insist that Canada is your
brother to the north. Then you destroy our softwood industry by
imposing 25% levies against our soft wood imports to the US. Then

when

Quoted message said:

our combined north american cow herd produces a couple of cases of

BSE,

Quoted message said:

you slam the border shut. "

Oh please. This is just another example of the blatant and ignorant
hatred of America that Warren is talking about. Whenever mad cow has
been found in any country, the reaction from most of the rest of the
world has been to ban temporarily the import of beef from that

country.

Quoted message said:

Take a look at this:

"MONTREAL - Canadian and American agricultural scientists scrambled
yesterday to trace the history of a black Angus infected with mad cow
disease in Alberta while ranchers braced for possible economic

disaster

Quoted message said:

as Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan, and South Korea joined the
United States in banning imports of all Candian beef and sheep
products. "

All these countries, plus more, banned Canadian beef, yet you
selectively point the finger at the evil USA?

Or how about this gem:

"CANADIAN BAN ON BRAZILIAN BEEF IMPORTS ESCALATES TRADE BATT"

Oh, I see it's OK for Canada to ban imports, but when the USA does

it,

Quoted message said:

it's an abuse of our economic power.

And here's my favorite:

" Ottawa has imposed a temporary ban on some US beef products after a
case of mad cow disease was discovered in the state of Washington, as
the markets for US beef exports effectively shut down. "

So, when Canada bans US beef, it's just swell. Just reverse the
situation, and it's an example of why Ameicans are hated.

"Iraq. You guys are [censored] that Canada didn't join you in the
quagmire. You seem to forget that Canada is sovereign and decides for
itself what wars they enter into."

Any where is the evidence of this? I'm not [censored] at Canada, nor has
the US taken any action against Canada that I know of.

"You will find that all of the US's trading partners are going to

back

Quoted message said:

away from being dependent in any way with the US for trade. They will
start to look elsewhere for trading partners, anywhere but the US.

The

Quoted message said:

US has lost all credibility in the world of international trade. This
one lonely little district judge has started the end of US
international trade domination, and Bush and the congress is letting
him do it. "

See, we have this quirky system here in the US. It's called the
justice system. The President and Congress don't control it. Lots

of

Quoted message said:

times they are as upset as you over decisions made by courts, but we
don't all go bonkers and blow it all out of proportion. As for
deciding who to trade with, that's up to you. You can take your
Canadian cows and go wherever you like.

Have you had enough yet? So far you've demonstrated a complete
ignorance of history, (eg thinking America got it's ass kicked in an
unjustified war in Korea, without realizing that brave Canadian

troops

Quoted message said:

were there defending freedom too). Now you've demonstrated how

totally

Quoted message said:

baseless and ignorant of the facts people like you are when they hate
the US. It's even better, cause the example you were dumb enough to
put forth is centered on your beloved Canadian beef and now you're

just

Quoted message said:

demonstrated that you know less than nothing about that too! Your

cows

Quoted message said:

must not be doing to well if they have you looking after them, Eh?

And when we get the situation under control,
you keep it shut in a protectionist move that ignores the scientific
facts. There are doaens of instances where the US have severely

harmed

Quoted message said:

the Canadian economy by imposing protectionist measures in spite and

in

Quoted message said:

contravention of GATT and/or the NAFTA.