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Become as qualified as Dr Burzynski

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
3 January 2004
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14 January 2004
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Peter Bowditch
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  1. I have just received an email which said:

    Happy New Year! New Degree! Click here to obtain diploma or degree for what you already know.
    Associates, Bachelors, Masters, MBA or Doctorates available. No books! No Courses! No Tests!

    I am tempted to acquire the qualifications necessary to become a famous and persecuted Texas
    cancer "curer".

    --
    Peter Bowditch
    The Millenium Project ratbags.comrsoles
    The Green Light ratbags.comgreenlight
    and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added Vitamins and C-Q10 ratbags.comloon
    To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

  2. ...except you won't be a MD or have the background training Anth

    "Peter Bowditch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I have just received an email which said:

    Happy New Year! New Degree! Click here to obtain diploma or degree for what you already know.
    Associates, Bachelors, Masters, MBA or Doctorates available. No books! No Courses! No Tests!

    I am tempted to acquire the qualifications necessary to become a famous and persecuted Texas
    cancer "curer".

    --
    Peter Bowditch The Millenium Project ratbags.comrsoles The Green Light
    ratbags.comgreenlight and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added
    Vitamins and


    C-Q10 ratbags.comloon

    Quoted message said:

    To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

  3. Quoted message said:

    From: Peter Bowditch [email hidden]
    Date: 1/2/2004 7:58 PM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Become as qualified as Dr Burzynski

    Do that, maybe you will become successful and have some testimonies from grateful people.

    First you will need to grow up.

    Right now, you are acting like a spoiled brat, that didn't get his way.

    All the dirty tricks from EOM didn't work and didn't stop him and you *AIN'T* going to do it either.

    You must be jealous, because you have NO medical training to be an advisor to judge what
    is quackery.

    BTW, why did you lie about the name of the group?? Are you so dense you thought nobody would
    look it up??

    tinyurl.com3dlrg

    detailshere.comcancerinfo.htm

    alkalizeforhealth.netLburzynski.htm

    burzynskipatientgroup.orgstories.htm

    Jan

    I don't give a damn if Peter lied to you, this newsgroup, his mother, or the pope.

    Rich Shewmaker Ka Ching

  4. That has never stopped any quack. Hulda Cluck's degree in Naturopathy is mail order.

    "Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    ...except you won't be a MD or have the background training Anth

    "Peter Bowditch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I have just received an email which said:

    Happy New Year! New Degree! Click here to obtain diploma or degree for what you already know.
    Associates, Bachelors, Masters, MBA or Doctorates available. No books! No Courses! No Tests!

    I am tempted to acquire the qualifications necessary to become a famous and persecuted Texas
    cancer "curer".

    --
    Peter Bowditch The Millenium Project ratbags.comrsoles The Green Light
    ratbags.comgreenlight and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added
    Vitamins and


    C-Q10 ratbags.comloon

    Quoted message said:

    To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

  5. "Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:3ff654cb$0$61059$65c69314
    @mercury.nildram.net:

    Quoted message said:

    ...except you won't be a MD or have the background training Anth

    And he won't be any different than that nut from Texas that claims to cure cancer.

    r

    Quoted message said:

    "Peter Bowditch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I have just received an email which said:

    Happy New Year! New Degree! Click here to obtain diploma or degree for what you already know.
    Associates, Bachelors, Masters, MBA or Doctorates available. No books! No Courses! No Tests!

    I am tempted to acquire the qualifications necessary to become a famous and persecuted Texas
    cancer "curer".

    --
    Peter Bowditch The Millenium Project ratbags.comrsoles The Green Light
    ratbags.comgreenlight and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added
    Vitamins and


    C-Q10 ratbags.comloon

    Quoted message said:

    To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

    --
    Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.

  6. (Jan) said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: Peter Bowditch [email hidden] Date: 1/2/2004 7:58 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-
    id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Become as qualified as Dr Burzynski

    Do that, maybe you will become successful and have some testimonies from grateful people.

    Testimonies happen in court. I would like to see Dr Burzynski get many more of them.

    Quoted message said:

    First you will need to grow up.

    Right now, you are acting like a spoiled brat, that didn't get his way.

    All the dirty tricks from EOM didn't work and didn't stop him and you *AIN'T* going to do
    it either.

    I realise that I will not be able to destroy all quacks like Burzynski alone, but a man's reach
    should exceed his grasp.

    Quoted message said:

    You must be jealous, because you have NO medical training to be an advisor to judge what is
    quackery.

    Whereas you have extensive medical training to judge what is not quackery. You have, haven't you?

    Quoted message said:

    BTW, why did you lie about the name of the group?? Are you so dense you thought nobody would
    look it up??

    What are you talking about?

    <snip Burzynski advertising and sock-puppet sites>

    Quoted message said:

    Jan

    I don't give a damn if Peter lied to you, this newsgroup, his mother, or the pope.

    I've been meaning to ask this, jan. Do you accept the authority of the Pope? If not, why would you
    care if I lied to him?

    Quoted message said:

    Rich Shewmaker Ka Ching

    Ka-ching, indeed.

    --
    Peter Bowditch
    The Millenium Project ratbags.comrsoles
    The Green Light ratbags.comgreenlight
    and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added Vitamins and C-Q10 ratbags.comloon
    To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

  7. "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Become as qualified as Dr Burzynski From: Peter Bowditch [email hidden]
    Date: 1/3/2004 4:54 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
    <[email hidden]>

    (Jan) said:

    >From: Peter Bowditch [email hidden] Date: 1/2/2004 7:58 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-
    >id: <[email hidden]>

    >Subject: Become as qualified as Dr Burzynski

    Do that, maybe you will become successful and have some testimonies from grateful people.

    Testimonies happen in court. I would like to see Dr Burzynski get many more of them.

    Yes, we know you are quite upset because none of the dirty tactics from


    EOM

    Quoted message said:

    have worked.

    I also notice you would like to overlook the ones from grateful people who


    are

    Quoted message said:

    regaining their health. I realize that isn't important to you. You are


    looking

    Quoted message said:

    for more *power* to go on a witch hunt.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    First you will need to grow up.

    Right now, you are acting like a spoiled brat, that didn't get his way.

    All the dirty tricks from EOM didn't work and didn't stop him and you


    *AIN'T*

    Quoted message said:

    going to do it either.

    Quoted message said:

    I realise that I will not be able to destroy all quacks like Burzynski alone, but a man's reach
    should exceed his grasp.

    You don't have any medical training to determine who is a quack. You are


    bias

    Quoted message said:

    and a member of EOM.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    You must be jealous, because you have NO medical training to be an


    advisor

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to

    Quoted message said:

    judge what is quackery.


    Quoted message said:

    Whereas you have extensive medical training to judge what is not quackery. You have, haven't you?

    We've already been there. You seem to be repeating yourself. I am not


    faking it

    Quoted message said:

    to be an advisor on a committee. You seem to be quite critical of others qualifications, but you
    have none. That's called a hypocrite and double standards, a cheat and dishonest.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    BTW, why did you lie about the name of the group?? Are you so dense you


    thought

    Quoted message said:

    nobody would look it up??

    What are you talking about?

    I am talking about your lying... Can't remember which lies you told, Peter?

    That would be Rich Shewmaker, fellow atheist and doesn't believe in any alternative. Satan isn't
    particular about his deceiving, might as well get


    them

    Quoted message said:

    all together in one neat group.

    You sound like the "Church Lady" on SNL ;o)

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    Rich Shewmaker Ka Ching

    Ka-ching, indeed.

    Yep, just one more childish example of the debunker bully group.

    Jan

    And another bully KaChing for you Jan, $9

  8. "Mark ProbertJanuary 3, 2004" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    That has never stopped any quack. Hulda Cluck's degree in Naturopathy is mail order.

    And where did you get your law degree Aloysius?

    And why do you no longer have a license to practice law in New York state?

    www.humanticsfoundation.com/propagandistprobert.html

    www.humanticsfoundation.com/disinfoagents.htm#BarrettsParrot

  9. In article <[email hidden]>,

    (Ilena) said:

    "Mark ProbertJanuary 3, 2004" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    That has never stopped any quack. Hulda Cluck's degree in Naturopathy is mail order.

    And where did you get your law degree Aloysius?

    And why do you no longer have a license to practice law in New York state?

    www.humanticsfoundation.com/propagandistprobert.html

    www.humanticsfoundation.com/disinfoagents.htm#BarrettsParrot

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, Ilena: Your two web pages above say FAR more about you
    than they do about Mark (or any other of the targets of your attacks), and none of it is good.

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"

  10. Orac <[email hidden]>

    As always with the Junk Science / Quack Logic ... you have it upside down and backwards.

    If you would understand the referenced webpages on Probert who you consistently defend, you would
    know that soon after Barrett and Grell SLAPP sued me ... Probert (and later Nidiffer) ... came on
    the attack.

    Any other version is your fantasy.

    Others who take the time to read these pages understand clearly what is going on ... you have a bias
    to defend an ex lawyer who lies about it and presents himself as other than who he really is ... a
    Ritalin Pusher and Publicist for the Quack / Healthfraud Team ...

    The facts are there for those with eyes to see ...

    www.humanticsfoundation.com/propagandistprobert.html

    www.humanticsfoundation.com/disinfoagents.htm#BarrettsParrot

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    www.BreastImplantAwareness.org

  11. In article <[email hidden]>,

    (Ilena) said:

    As always with the Junk Science / Quack Logic ... you have it upside down and backwards.

    No.

    Sadly, I have it exactly right. You do damage to no one's credibility but your own by posting such
    venomous attacks on your website.

    [Snip]

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"

  12. Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    (Ilena) said:

    As always with the Junk Science / Quack Logic ... you have it upside down and backwards.

    Orac <[email hidden]> then denied it of course and came back with:

    Quoted message said:

    No.

    Sadly, I have it exactly right. You do damage to no one's credibility but your own by posting such
    venomous attacks on your website.

    Sometimes the truth is ugly ...

    It's ugly to infiltrate a woman's support group while being a "Publicist" and "Spy" (oh no, she said
    the word) for Quacks Barrett and their Malicious Prosecutor Grell who were SLAPP suing me ...

    It's ugly to take ridiculous aliases and when caught, just make up more lies ...

    Both failed attorney Probert and another cross dressing Troll for Barrett's Quack Team, "Nana"
    Nidiffer came after me more each time Barrett lost to me ...

    Right after Nidiffer announced for Polevoy his partial win (which has since been vacated ... nothing
    they admit on their websites) ... the next day Nidiffer was posting "Ilena Rose is a Crack addict"
    webpages about me for them ...

    The venom you see Davey, is them attacking me thru the legal system (and both Barrett & Malicious
    Prosecutor Grell have lost at both Superior Court and Appeals Court of California levels) 100%

    and on Usenet ...

    and you defending them.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    www.humanticsfoundation.com/quacklibelsuit.htm Barrett and Grell's SLAPP suit loss to me Polevoy's
    portion was remanded to Superior Court ... the Judges then approved my re-hearing and denied
    Barrett's The previous opinion is now vacated with regards to Polevoy

    www.humanticsfoundation.com/disinfoagents.htm#BarrettsParrot Their "Publicist" and long term
    "HealthFraud" member

    www.humanticsfoundation.com/propagandistprobert.html

  13. (Ilena) said:
    Quoted message said:
    In article said:

    As always with the Junk Science / Quack Logic ... you have it upside down and backwards.

    The thought of Ilena upside down and backwards makes my flesh creep.

    --
    Peter Bowditch
    The Millenium Project ratbags.comrsoles
    The Green Light ratbags.comgreenlight
    and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added Vitamins and C-Q10 ratbags.comloon
    To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

  14. In article <[email hidden]>,

    (Ilena) said:
    Quoted message said:
    In article said:

    As always with the Junk Science / Quack Logic ... you have it upside down and backwards.

    Orac <[email hidden]> then denied it of course and came back with:

    Quoted message said:

    No.

    Sadly, I have it exactly right. You do damage to no one's credibility but your own by posting
    such venomous attacks on your website.

    Sometimes the truth is ugly ...

    It's ugly to infiltrate a woman's support group while being a "Publicist" and "Spy" (oh no, she
    said the word) for Quacks Barrett and their Malicious Prosecutor Grell who were SLAPP suing me ...

    It's ugly to take ridiculous aliases and when caught, just make up more lies ...

    Both failed attorney Probert and another cross dressing Troll for Barrett's Quack Team, "Nana"
    Nidiffer came after me more each time Barrett lost to me ...

    Right after Nidiffer announced for Polevoy his partial win (which has since been vacated ...
    nothing they admit on their websites) ... the next day Nidiffer was posting "Ilena Rose is a Crack
    addict" webpages about me for them ...

    The venom you see Davey, is them attacking me thru the legal system (and both Barrett & Malicious
    Prosecutor Grell have lost at both Superior Court and Appeals Court of California levels) 100%

    and on Usenet ...

    and you defending them.

    I'm "defending" no one.

    I AM, however, criticizing your behavior.

    You're clearly missing the point (or intentionally ignoring it). Even if every word you posted about
    them were absolutely accurate (which is, of course, highly doubtful at best, given your track
    record, but for the sake of argument let's just postulate for a moment that that's the case), your
    webpages with obsessive venomous tirades about your perceived enemies would STILL reflect more
    poorly on you than they do on your enemies. Such behavior reveals a nastiness in your character that
    is distasteful to most people.

    You say sometimes the truth is ugly. Well, enemies lists (particularly public enemies lists, such
    as the one you've posted to your website) are very ugly and reflect poorly on the person keeping
    them. It is possible to tell your side of the story without resorting to such nastiness, but you
    choose not to do so. It's sad that you can't understand or won't acknowledge that's all it is that
    I'm saying.
    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"

  15. Orac <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    You say sometimes the truth is ugly. Well, enemies lists (particularly public enemies lists

    The one I find the most disgusting is this one ...

    Townsend Letter of July, 1997, which had a headline reading "2,500 Doctors Posted on Quack List."

    Keep cheering on your failed lawyer friend Probert, Davey ... he makes YOU look so credible!

    www.humanticsfoundation.com/quacklibelsuit.htm

  16. Orac <[email hidden]>

    Nice attempt at revisionist history, Davey ... sounds like Quack Barrett himself is coaching you ...

    www.humanticsfoundation.com/quacklibelsuit.htm

  17. Orac <[email hidden]> quoting Barrett's revisionist history on the
    disgusting "Quack List" ... I am very, very familiar with Barrett's
    attempts to change history:

    internetwks.comquack.html

    NCAHF Posts Names of 2,500 Physicians on Quack List Originally published July 1997 Lyn Behrens, PhD
    President, Loma Linda University Loma Linda, California 92350

    Dear President Behrens:

    This letter responds to yours of April 22 in which you responded to a written complaint I submitted
    concerning facts and circumstances surrounding acts of suppression of speech at a public forum held
    at Loma Linda University. As you know, the forum was under the control of Loma Linda University
    professor William Jarvis, PhD. The lecture entitled 'Cancer Quackery: What You Should Know!' was
    open to the public and held at the University's Wong Kerlee Conference Center in the Cancer Research
    Pavilion. Fliers announcing the event invited members of the public to attend without charge.
    Microphones were available for members of the public who wished to express a view or ask a question.

    When I and three others who shared a similar viewpoint rose to correct inaccuracies and
    defamatory remarks made by Dr. Jarvis against Dr. Stanislaw Burzynski, Dr. Jarvis refused to
    permit us to express these views and ordered University security police to escort three of us
    from the lecture hall.

    Your letter explains that the matter is under investigation. In that regard, I wish to supplement
    the record with additional information. As I pointed out in my original complaint Dr. William Jarvis
    is the President of an entity known as the National Council Against Health Fraud (NCAHF). The
    University's address property, and stationery have been by Dr. Jarvis in the performance of hi
    duties for NCAHF. Records of the NCAHF are housed at his university office. Dr. Jarvis holds NCAHF
    events at the University. He makes frequent reference to his University affiliation while performing
    duties for his NCAHF.

    Dr. Jarvis' NCAHF is a controversial organization whose members crusade across the nation against
    specific, named practitioners whom they condemn as 'quacks' or 'frauds' in public forum, in
    print, on the air, and in judicial and administrative proceedings. Indeed, Dr. Jarvis used the
    facilities of Loma Linda University and its lecture hall to do precisely that at the recent Loma
    Linda event. He defamed
    Ds. Stanislaw Burzynski by implying that he was a quack and a fraud.

    Loma Linda should be deeply concerned that one of its professors has elected to use its property,
    its name, and his University affiliation to propagate rank character assassination and defamation
    against health care practitioners.

    Unfortunately, the NCAHF's anti quackery crusade is subjective and results in defamation only. Dr.
    Jarvis and other NCAHF members usually attack the character of their opponents, rather than the
    merits of their views. Characteristically, as was Dr. Jarvis' attack on Dr. Burzynski, NCAHF
    members harbor ignorance of key facts and frequently lack a professional understanding of the
    science of the matter.

    At the Loma Linda event, Dr. Jarvis identified Dr. Burzynski as a typical example of a medical quack
    and fraud, but failed to mention that after a two month trial Dr. Burzynski was acquitted of all
    fraud charges, and not a single witness brought forth by the government to testify against Dr.
    Burzynski questioned Dr. Burzynski's motives, character or integrity. He also failed to mention that
    for almost six months Dr. Burzynski's antineoplaston therapy has been undergoing study in several
    dozen FDA-approved clinical trials, with Dr. Burzynski as the principal investigator.

    Dt. Jarvis chose to attack the honesty, character, integrity, and personal characteristics of Dr.
    Burzynski. Such rank character assassination is not only unbecoming of a professional but also
    antithetical to educational dialogue at a University. Dr. Jarvis has brought disrepute upon Loma
    Linda. His crusade seeks not only to stifle opposing views but also to label those who express
    them as frauds or quacks - the very antithesis of higher education. His efforts convey the
    impression that Loma Linda University is not a place where academic exchange of ideas and
    information is encouraged but one where obvious overt bias and intolerance for dissenting views
    predominate.

    Unfortunately, the recent incident involving defamation against Dr. Burzynski is not an isolated
    event. I offer four items for your investigation that characterize the intent, actions, and
    consequences of the NCAHF.

    Item 1 - Deposition of Stephen Barrett, MD The NCAHF recently attacked Dr. Shari Lieberman, RD, PhD,
    a nutritionist and exercise physiologist in New York. Two of Dr. Jarvis' fellow NCAHF board members
    defamed Dr. Lieberman, again without the benefit of sound science or material facts. Those NCAHF
    board members, Dr. Stephen Barrett and Ira Milner, RD, testified against Dr. Lieberman at a hearing
    they themselves instigated before the American Dietetic Association (ADA) which resulted in the ADA
    publicly stripping Dr. Lieberman of her registered dietitian (RD) credential. As you would imagine,
    this caused her loss of prestige and credibility, hurt her financially, and caused her public
    humiliation. In their testimony to the ADA, the two represented themselves to be knowledgeable about
    several specific aspects of nutrition science, yet neither had academic training nor publication in
    those specific areas.

    In the end, after the falsity of their charges came to light, the ADA reinstated Dr. Leiberman's RD
    credential and published a statement noting same in the ADA's Journal and Courier.

    As the attached transcript from the Barrett deposition indicates, NCAHF is a loose cannon that poses
    distinct liability risks for the University. Under cross examination, Dr. Barrett admitted that he
    was not in fact, an expert in nutrition science, describing himself instead as an expert in
    'consumer strategy' and a "journalist.' This deposition clearly showed that Dr. Barrett did not have
    a thorough grounding in the scientific research relevant to the serious charges he made against Dr.
    Lieberman that caused her substantial harm.

    Item 2 - Findings of Fact, and Opinion, and Final Adjudication of the Regents of the University of
    the State of New York Victor Herbert, MD, a long-time board member of NCAHF, apparently implemented
    judicial proceedings against Warren Levin, MD, in New York State. The proceedings were initially
    opened in 1980, apparently due to a complaint by Dr. Herbert against Dr. Levin. The case was finally
    adjudicated in Dr. Levin's favor, 14 years later in November 1994. Dr. Levin was forced to declare
    personal and professional bankruptcy as a result of the legal costs, but he remained in medical
    practice the entire time, and is in full-time medical practice at this time.

    Du. Herbert apparently was the only one who complained about Dr. Levin. There were no patient
    complaints. As President of Loma Linda University, you should have particular interest in the
    findings of fact, opinions, and adjudication of the Regents of the University of the State of
    New York. Their harsh assessment of Dr. Victor Herbert should cause you considerable concern, as
    it did me.

    Dv. Herbert, long-term NCAHF Board member, was virtually uncontrollable in a court of law. The
    Regents noted that "Dr. V.H. many times in his testimony used inflammatory language, volunteered
    characterizations and editorials, offered information which was beyond and not responsive to the
    questions posed, subjected respondent and his attorney to ad hominem attacks, and utilized other
    tactics to show that respondent was guilty by association with others.' In spite of numerous
    sustained objections from Dr. Levin's attorney, Victor Herbert repeatedly and inappropriately
    used slanderous terms such as 'liar," 'quack,' 'obnoxious,' "vicious,' and "scumbag." He
    frequently used the term "fraud,' according to the Regents, 'regardless of whether he was
    answering a question posed by the respondent's attorney, petitioner's attorney, or the hearing
    committee or whether it was responsive to the question posed.' As the Regents pointed out, these
    "personal attacks on respondent and characterizations [while] testifying to the ultimate issue
    in dispute were improper.' That these proceedings were allowed to continue in this vein should
    concern anyone who values the basic tenets of a free society.

    I received an amusing letter from Richard Hart, MD, Dean of the School of Public Health that
    concluded that armed security police were necessary because I was "rather disruptive and forceful in
    trying to obtain control of the microphone....'

    Nothing could be further from the truth. Offering an informed opinion through an open mike is
    certainly not disruptive. An open lecture that invites public comments cannot lawfully deny contrary
    views under California's constitution. I suspect that Dr. Hart's finding of fact and opinion would
    be difficult to sustain under judicial scrutiny. Please inform Dr. Hart that he is to preserve all
    documents, recordings, and other materials that he used to come to his conclusion, and that their
    loss would be neither appropriate nor helpful.

    You might wish to send Dr. Hart the Regents of the University of the State of New York's assessment
    of Victor Herbert, Board Member of the NCAHF, to broaden his (Dr. Hart's) under-standing of the word
    "disruptive.'

    Item 3 - Persons on the Quack List Data Base I have also enclosed a list of 2,551 names, with a computer-
    generated numerical ID, compiled by Dr. John Renner, board member of the NCAHF, and titled "Persons
    on the Quack List Data Base.' There is evidence that the NCAHF has disseminated this list, or
    perhaps even sold it to medical insurance companies for the purpose of interfering with the payments
    for medical services provided by those on the list. There is good evidence that it is sent to state
    medical boards and other entities in an effort to harm professionally those on the list. Persons so
    listed are never informed that they are listed, nor informed as to who receives this list or why.
    Obviously, considering the number of physicians listed, the only criteria for being added to this
    defamatory list would be the 'opinions' of those within the NCAHF. Please note that the list
    includes 1,137 MDs, 167 PhDs, 236 DOs, 79 DDSS, 228 DCs, and 441 others (BS, RN, ND, HMD, CSW, MSN).
    There are 52 double doctorates on the list, with two or more of the following degrees, MD, PhD, DO,
    DDS, DVM, DMD. Many have university affiliation, have published in the peer-review literature, and
    are respected authors of books or even textbooks.

    Please note that this 'quack' list includes Linus Pauling, PhD.

    Linus Pauling is the only individual to have won two unshared Nobel Prizes, and virtually every
    other award for scientific achievement, both national and international. In the 1970s the editors of
    the British New Scientist listed Dr. Pauling as one of the top 20 scientists of all time. Albert
    Einstein was the only other scientist in the 20th century listed along with Aristotle, Gallileo,
    Isaac Newton, and Michael Faraday.

    In the recently published book, Scientific Genius, The 20 Greatest Minds of All Time, by Jim Glenn
    (Crescent Books, 1996). Linus Pauling is again listed along with Archimedes, Gregor Mendel, William
    Harvey, Charles Darwin, and Rend Descartes. Linus Pauling's achievements should be lauded, not
    besmirched with this outrageously inexcusable label of quack. As President of Loma Linda University,
    does it concern you that Dr. Jarvis' NCAHF, a small group of about four men of no significant
    distinction in ,the scientific arena, would 'secretly' list Dr. Pauling as a 'quack,' and would
    actually send or sell this list to others in the scientific or health field? Does it concern you
    that the NCAHF is housed on the Loma Linda campus and by implication, this clandestine and highly
    defamatory practice is condoned by the University?

    I will be communicating with each individual on this list, informing them that this list or data
    similar to it is maintained and updated by John Renner, MD, board member of NCAHF, and that the
    offices of NCAHF are housed-on the campus of Loma Linda University. I will be instructing each
    person contacted to address any questions or concerns they may have concerning their defamatory
    labeling to you, the President of Loma Linda University. I have already contacted the Linus Pauling
    Institute and the Pauling family.

    Item 4 - Quacks Condensed List Benjamin R. Wilson, MD, working with John H. Renner, MD, compiled a
    list of 1,500 which he called the 'Condensed Quack List.' After the practitioner's degree, or
    degrees, Dr. Wilson lists two indices called the NI and DDL. NI stands for 'Notoriety Index' which
    is a function of the number of 'quack' organizations or academic groups the individual has joined.
    Thus "guilt by association' is elevated to new heights in that it is now numerically quantified and
    recorded. The DDI is the Ding Dong Index' - a score reflecting the most nonsensical or dangerous
    dubious procedures and/or illnesses they treat.

    Please note that one way to get on the quack list is to simply join or donate to any group or
    organization that the NCAHF deems to be quack. Of course, the legality and charter of the group is
    irrelevant to the NCAHF. The fact that the group may be for professionals only and puts on regular
    scientific sessions that are approved for CME educational credit for MDs and DOs is irrelevant to
    those marching with the NCAHF.

    Incredibly, Dr. Wilson will put you on the 'quack list' if you are listed as a donor to the National
    Health Federation, a chartered and legal organization. This qualifies 'the quack' for the highest
    Notoriety Index: a 10. Whereas the donor list of the NHF is public, the 'quack list' with its
    additional indices is clandestine, and is meant to cause harm.

    Your letter stated that you were going to investigate this matter. I believe that it is
    inappropriate to look upon the action of Dr. Jarvis as an isolated incident. I believe that the
    action of Dr. Jarvis is typical of the NCAHF. I trust that this material will enhance your
    understanding of the NCAHF and their potential liability for the University.

    I am requesting two things from Loma Linda University.

    First, an Opportunity for Counterspeech.

    Under California constitutional law, a private establishment that opens a forum to the public may
    not engage in viewpoint discrimination. Loma Linda (through the agency of Dr. Jarvis) violated the
    rights of those who wished to express a viewpoint contrary to Dr. Jarvis when Dr. Jarvis refused to
    permit such views during the question-and answer segment of the lecture. I respectfully request that
    the University correct this injustice by holding another forum to permit each of those ejected from
    the lecture hall to express their contrary viewpoints.

    The forum should be held at the same time, for the same length as the original one, and at the same
    location (a larger room will likely be necessary). It should again be open to the public, and it
    should be promoted and advertised in the same manner as the first, inviting members of the public to
    attend and hear a rebuttal.

    Secondly, A letter of clarification. I respectfully request a letter from you, - President of Loma
    Linda University, clarifying the status of the NCAHF at the University. Please be specific in
    answering the following questions. Does the University authorize the. use of its property,
    stationery, name and reputation by the NCAHF and by Dr. Jarvis in connection with and in support of
    the NCAHF's activities? Does the University condone Dr. Jarvis' use of his University office to
    house files and property to traffic in lists of "quacks' substantiated by no objective evidence
    other than the .opinions' of those aligned with NCAHF?

    Does the University agree that it was appropriate to give Linus Pauling, PhD, this pejorative label,
    and that such files defaming Dr. Pauling and others could possibly be kept by Dr. Jarvis at the
    University, or flow through his hands, in his University office? Does the University condone Dr.
    Jarvis' reliance on the University reputation to promote the NCAHF, an organization that is
    essentially run by four irrational zealots whose obvious agenda is to cleanse the medical profession
    of 'undesirables' and to purge society of all other healing arts?

    Please respond to these queries at your earliest convenience. Please be assured that I hold the
    University responsible for the actions of NCAHF both past and present.

    Julian M. Whitaker, MD The Whitaker Wellness Institute 4321 Birch, Suite 100 Newport Beach,
    California 92660 USA 714-851-1550 Fax 714-955-3005

  18. In article <[email hidden]>,

    (Ilena) said:

    Orac <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    You say sometimes the truth is ugly. Well, enemies lists (particularly public enemies lists

    The one I find the most disgusting is this one ...

    Townsend Letter of July, 1997, which had a headline reading "2,500 Doctors Posted on Quack List."

    Yes, I find that one disgusting too, because the accusation about the alleged "quack list" was made
    as a means attacking an enemy with a dubious charge. An altie (Dr. Julian Whitaker) well-known for
    his confrontational techniques and bashing of conventional medicine in general and NCAHF in
    particular posted it to The Townsend Letter as a means of attacking one of his enemies (Dr. William
    Jarvis), who had given a speech on cancer quackery at Loma Linda University. After Jarvis' speech,
    Dr. Whitaker apparently tried to dominate the question and answer session by monopolizing the
    microphone and making a speech against Jarvis and for Burzynski, leading to his being escorted out
    by security. That a "quack list" was ever posted is a dubious charge at best, designed to smear and
    provoke complaints to Loma Linda more than anything else.

    ncahf.org11 12.html

    Of course, you could prove me wrong simply by showing me where the list was ever posted. You know
    I'm always willing to admit when I've made a mistake.

    Your mentioning it is also a rather transparent attempt to distract people by trying to turn the
    argument back on me, Ilena. The logical fallacy you used is:

    Ad hominem tu quoque

    infidels.orglogic.html fallacyfiles.orgtuquoque.html

    Ad hominem tu quoque is a sub-fallacy of the "two wrongs make a right" fallacy:

    fallacyfiles.orgtwowrong.html

    which, in turn, is a special case of the "red herring" fallacy:

    fallacyfiles.orgredherrf.html

    Of course, the purpose of that fallacy is to put the questioner on the defensive, which it did to me
    for a moment. So congratulations; you got me to bite. On the other hand, for that fallacy to have
    been actually effective in sowing doubt, though, I (or someone I support) would have had to actually
    do the same thing you did and post an enemies list. I did not, and as far as I can tell, neither
    Jarvis nor the NCAHF posted an "enemies list." Jarvis (someone I had never heard of before you
    mentioned the story and did a little web research) being of posting a "quack list" is not the same
    as your posting an "enemies list" on your website. Even if Jarvis and the NCAHF did have an internal
    private list of practitioners whom they consider quacks, it is not the same thing as a public
    "enemies list," like the one you have posted.
    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"

  19. In article <[email hidden]>,

    (Ilena) said:

    Orac <[email hidden]>

    Nice attempt at revisionist history, Davey ... sounds like Quack Barrett himself is
    coaching you ...

    www.humanticsfoundation.com/quacklibelsuit.htm

    <Yawn>

    More of the same?

    I tried to give you a friendly warning about how bad you make yourself look, and, as usual, you
    ignored it.

    And you wonder why so many people around here don't take you very seriously.

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"

  20. Orac <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    In article said:

    Orac <[email hidden]> quoting Barrett's revisionist history on the disgusting "Quack List"

    Actually, I wasn't quoting Barrett, I was quoting Dr. Jarvis.

    Quoted message said:

    ... I am very, very familiar with Barrett's attempts to change history:

    internetwks.comquack.html

    ncahf.org11 12.html

    (in the last section of the newsletter). Maybe if I write LLU, they'll send me a copy of the
    videotape of the conference. ;-)

    Great idea!

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