Beating wheel sitters in short crit

What's wrong with sitting in? It's a tactic, like any other move in a crit. The problem isn't them not "pulling their own weight," it's you pulling more than you should. If no one will take the front and you're stuck there, slow down. Way down. But be ready to latch onto the wheel of the first guy who gets impatient and pulls by. That's what crits are -- a psychological game. And let's say you set up a breakaway with a couple of other riders. You gonna have a discussion about what's fair pulling? Nope. You're working together but anyone of you is free to break from that group at any time. And one of you is going to win and get to stand alone on the podium, and you can sure bet that one won't call the other two of you up to share the medal. (But he might split his winnings, if you agreed to that.) As long as you don't actively block (as opposed to passive blocking) and don't physically impair somebody else, it's fair. And remember, crits are not about the clock or about fitness, but are about who gets across the finish line first. Which is about tactics.

A very fair reply indeed Steve. What you say is quite true. I guess coming from a triathlon background my perspective is a little tainted. In Triathlon drafting was frowned upon, now the opposite is somewhat true. Somehow though I think I wouldnt feel as satisfied by sitting at the back, then cruising through to win. MAybe I'll try this next week and see how I feel about it????

What would really satisfy me would be to win with a break. Next Saturday I have 2 mates coming to race with me. Whats the best way to attack with a group of three in a crit?

Triathletes who turn to cycling always attack form the front. This almost never works. Attack from the middle, and jump away as fast as you can. Don;t wear matching jerseys, as that's kinda obvious when three similar jerseys go off the front.

You're not trying out time trial them, you're trying to get a big enough break early on which causes everyone to give up. This requires a big gap, followed by some extremely hard work, followed by some suffering and hanging on until the death (of course you'll be left out to dry, but that's all patr of the learning experoience). A bunch can easily chase down 3 riders at any time, it just has to want to. If you are consistently maintaing a 100m break, sit up. Any sprinter can jump across 100m within a single lap unless you're avergaing 50.

The reason you think you wouldn't feel as satisfied by sitting on is because you've won a bunch sprint. You still have to work hard to win. Once you're there, it's not hard to finish top 20, but top 3 is hard.

Agree with Steve. If you want to break away, don't try too early unless you are much stronger than the others. Wait till the second half, or even in the last 3 - 4 kms before the speed rises sufficiently that it is hard to get away on your own.
If there are tight corners and various categories on the road, maybe try to break away before the corner when a lower cat group is ahead of you so that you can put that other cat between you and your group by the time you get to the corner.

sounds like you need to sit on the back for a change and try your luck in the sprint. Thats what its all about

Nicko, I'd suggest first practicing doing rotations with your 2 mates - what's the top speed you 3 can maintain, how do you want to rotate, how often. And not wearing the same jerseys is a good idea. The 3 of you should stay somewhere in the top 1/4. Then make your move. One good place to make a move is just before the crest of a hill. Everybody's slowing down and looking forward to the end of the hill when they can rest their legs a bit. Sure everyone speeds up on the downside, but if you 3 really crank it up and immediately get into your rotation, you'll catch the others when they're recovering. In a few seconds you'll have a 10m gap, something you can work with.

There is a lot of good advice here, but maybe crits are not your thing coming from a triathalon background. I mean obviously, you need to do some drafting in any race and don;t avoid it, but going on breaks in a short crit might be hard. I would think that you probably have very good cardio strength and might want to take advantage of that in another sort of race.

Thanks for all your great advice!!

The crit course we use has a 800m slight upwards push, followed by about 300m of a fairly moderate hill. This is immediately followed by a sharp corner and then a long 1.8km straight which is basically flat or slightly downhill - at the end of this straight is another sharp turn and you're back to the start again.

If we attack, the crest of the hill probably won't work because the turn at the top will hold up our break wont it?? I thought the begining of the upwards push would work well, then really push that last 300m to establish the break. At least if we attack this way we sting the others legs too as they will also have to climb hard??

Another question I have is whether a top speed sprint can be achieved in the saddle?? I feel more in control on the seat??

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Nicko71

Another question I have is whether a top speed sprint can be achieved in the saddle?? I feel more in control on the seat??

No. It might be your top speed as you simply don;t feel comfortable any other way, but sprinting in the saddle is just not going to work.

Learnt another great lesson about crits, they are very very unpredictable!! Tactics have to be planned based on the type of race you are in - relative to your own ability!!

This week some A graders raced B grade, and upped the tempo enormously. We are usually lapped by the A graders, this time they didnt even get within site of us. I tried my usual attempts at attacking off the front. Had nothing for the sprint, but felt satisfied I had raced aggressively. This probably would have been a good race for me to hide in the bunch, and just mark the breakaways!!

Damn its hard to pick when a breakaway is a serious threat!! Especially when guys are competing out of category!! I thought this would be a week I would do well, unfortunately I see I still have many lessons to learn. still finished in front 10, but further back than before.

Next week is a bigger race, a lot of "out of category" racing apparently, definately aweek to join the "wheel sitters"

😄

Trying to join every breakaway is not going to be a sucessful strategy in the long run. You need to pick your spots even if that means that you miss a few winning breaks. A good example would be the olympic road race or a Worlds. Good riders sometimes miss out on the decisive break, but if they had stayed at the front for every break then they wouldn;t have had enough energy to even suceed in the break.

Nicko

you are relatively new to cycle racing.....you know you are strong (from triathlon) and yes you are fitter than those guys with the big sprint at the end......you know it and so do they....that is why they let you drive the race and tear holes in yourself....and when the bell rings they line up behind you and do their first turn ten metres before the finish line.......doesn't it make you sick!!!!!!

what you need to do in this sortof negative racing is hold back your energy......because lets face it.....if all they are going to do is sprint you in the last lap....why bother killing yourself......you might as well wait until you are two laps out.....sit up the back with a mate and hit them like a ton of bricks.....get on your mates wheel and get him to empty himself and get you as far up the road....when he starts to die.....go over the top of him and destroy yourself until the finish line......if you do it right .....you might come first......if you dont make it to the line.....I can promise you that you have just upset a few of the sit on sprinters....and maybe changed the course of the race.......

one other thing.....when you go to attack like this, try and do it when;
(1) someone else has just attacked and the bunch is just pulling them back, or
(2) when you notice a couple of the top sprinters out of position (ie boxed in) and it will be harder for them to cover your attack
(3) try not to be the first to bomb the bunch....as they usually cover the first few attacks as a group.....once people get tired, then only the form riders (who know they can win) will start covering breaks.....the general populace go's into survival mode and dreams of the bunch kick

never attack from the front....and if you attack hasn't worked....sit up and get your mate to lead you out in the bunch gallop....

no harm in trying.....and remember the way this works is to surprise the bunch.....so sit in and look lame before letting rip!!!!

I fully agree with Shaneo in his tactics. So much of racing is in your head. Always look around you and see what is happening, who is struggling, which sprinter is sitting in and waiting. A triathlete guy will not win a sprint as they have loads of power and endurance but not as much speed as a road sprinter. My advice for you nicko is to get the other guys to play to your strengths which is high power sustained racing. The sprinters will have to chase you down and it will lessen their sprint power at the end if they do catch you.
Always attack from at least 3 wheels back, when you jump go wide and really hammer it. The going wide makes it harder for someone to catch your wheel.

The tactics you should adopt are:
Attack
If that fails
Attack
and as a last resort
Attack!

good luck

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Nicko71
...I am really frustrated by guys who I think have average fitness but sit in the bunch and enjoy the glory of winning the sprint without doing any real sustained work.

A sprint is the bike rider's gift from God. Without his sprint, Supermario would just be a domestique.

1) Train your sprint. In training races, jump across to breaks. Go for the primes. When out on your own, do several eyeballs-out sprints in every ride. If you have the fast-twitch muscle, you'll get a sprint.

2) In races you want to win, sit in. Wait for the 'good' breaks to go - you'll ride against the same blokes every week, you'll soon know - and go with them if you can.

3) In a bunch finish (or in a break where there's lads there faster than you) wait until about 1K to go. Attack as hard as you can. If you get a gap, even two lengths, 100% to the finish. Don't look back again. Keep sprinting, even if someone comes past - they are suffering, too. It won't work every time, but what does?

Speaking of triathletes turned cyclists, Lance Armstrong was a triathlete himself before he became a cyclist.

I do not really understand why triathletes don't like it when people draft behind other's wheels because it's part of cycling and personally, if they don't like it, they can shove it down their throats cause the person drafting has the better chance of winning than they do.

Thomas Davis

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by tomdavis80
I do not really understand why triathletes don't like it when people draft behind other's wheels because it's part of cycling
Thomas Davis

I think the 'no-drafting' rule was correct *in triathlons*; I'd love to see a group of 8 or 9 professional cyclists enter an 'Ironman' under the new rules and ride the cycling 112 miles together as a TTT. Even if they finished half an hour behind the first swimmer they'd make it up in the cycling leg, and drag the entire field behind them, thus making the whole event look silly.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by shaneo

you know you are strong (from triathlon) and yes you are fitter than those guys with the big sprint at the end......you know it and so do they....that is why they let you drive the race and tear holes in yourself....and when the bell rings they line up behind you and do their first turn ten metres before the finish line.......doesn't it make you sick!!!!!!

It's not that you are any fitter than the sprinters, we're just smarter than you.

Obviously you've never heard the phrase "Let them cook". That's why your little breakaway always survives until one or two laps to go. No decent sprinter cares about your 200m lead, that can be eaten up in no time if someone bothers. And everyone knows you won't sprint well if you time trial for 45 minutes before the sprint.

There's no prize for waste the most energy needlessly. As soon as you figure that out, you'll have more fun racing crits. If you want to prove whose fittest (but not smartest) do a time trial or go back to tri's. If you want to win in a breakway, have a go, but don't whinge about negative tactics.

Oh, and we all do plenty of turns to make sure the bunch says together for the sprint.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Shabby

There's no prize for waste the most energy needlessly. As soon as you figure that out, you'll have more fun racing crits. If you want to prove whose fittest (but not smartest) do a time trial or go back to tri's. If you want to win in a breakway, have a go, but don't whinge about negative tactics.

Oh, and we all do plenty of turns to make sure the bunch says together for the sprint.

Thanks for your reply Shabby, I do appreciate the general sentiment.

I enjoy the idea of crits, but I really don't enjoy the races where the pace is slow, and the riding very negative. Hey, dont get me wrong I don't mind losing, I just like to see people have a go at winning and get some hard work and exercise in the process!!

As for the plenty of turns thing. I've seen guys win who do none. In the end I dont really care that much, but I just dont see how they can all go around and pat themselves on the back, and shoot off about their "fabulous victory".

I know I shouldnt whinge about crits, because the point is to win within the rules, by the use of intelligent tactics.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Nicko71
...I don't mind losing, I just like to see people have a go at winning and get some hard work and exercise in the process!!

As for the plenty of turns thing. I've seen guys win who do none. ... I just dont see how they can all go around and pat themselves on the back, and shoot off about their "fabulous victory".

... the point is to win within the rules, by the use of intelligent tactics.

A pal of mine is a world class sprinter (he has two medals from the World Masters to prove it). If we let him get within sight of the finish still at the front, he will win. But in all other aspects of bike racing he's fairly ordinary. He can be dropped on hills. If you're in a break and attack with 1k to go, he's easily beatable; if you leave it until 500m, you have no chance. So why should he do anything other than sit in? It's up to us to get rid of him. And if we don't, he would be entitled to brag about it

That's why I think you're mistaken to complain. A sprint is a gift from God for a cyclist. So yes, you have to use intelligent tactics to defeat them. For the sprinter it's easy; follow wheels until 200m to go. Yet it makes them predictable. You have to make sure they're not there at 200m.

Good luck.