"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
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Should the electorate be informed when it comes to making decisions on foreign policy issues?
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I believe the answer is (evidently) clear: the public's ignorance is not a problem to overcome; rather, it is an opportunity to exploit.
Indeed, one might think that the current overlords believe the electorate should know nothing and do as told. Monsieur Ashcroft has even made open statements suggesting this.
"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
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Should the electorate be informed when it comes to making decisions on foreign policy issues?
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I believe the answer is (evidently) clear: the public's ignorance is not a problem to overcome; rather, it is an opportunity to exploit.
Indeed, one might think that the current overlords believe the electorate should know nothing and do as told. Monsieur Ashcroft has even made open statements suggesting this.
"Benjamin Weiner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
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Kurgan Gringioni said:
"Jay Pique" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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>"Benjamin Werner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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>> Hum, I am afraid you are confirming the cliches about americans' weak knowledge of foreign >> geography.
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>Don't even get into foreign - Americans have weak knowledge of
domestic
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>geography.
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And yet we still have the most dominant army, economy and bike racer in the world. Strange.
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You Dumbass - Those are unrelated.
Wrong, Henry. Cause and effect are reversed. Americans can get away with being ignorant of foreign geography because we have the biggest economy (and because the countries on our borders are not military or economic threats). In the rest of the world they have to know who their neighbors are and what the capital of the USA is
People aren't even informed about the war itself, or Al Qaeda, which 9/11 showed, is somewhat of a threat. Your analysis sucks.
These poll results have recently been in the news:
Some recent polls reveal 59% of Americans believe Saddam Hussein was involved in 9/11, and 50% believe Iraqis were among the 9/11 hijackers. 41% believe that WMD's have been found in Iraq, and 22% of Americans believe Iraq used weapons of mass destruction during the U.S. invasion
>Don't even get into foreign - Americans have weak knowledge of domestic geography.
And yet we still have the most dominant army, economy and bike racer in the world. Strange.
JP
You don't need to know where you are to blow something up. You don't need to know where something came from to buy it, or sell there. (Only the transporters need to know.) At least one American has a pretty good grasp of (Western European) geography.
Not saying much.
Should the electorate be informed when it comes to making decisions on foreign policy issues? Incorrect data/beliefs leads to faulty conclusions which leads to faulty actions.
Some recent polls reveal 59% of Americans believe Saddam Hussein was involved in 9/11, and 50% believe Iraqis were among the 9/11 hijackers. 41% believe that WMD's have been found in Iraq, and 22% of Americans believe Iraq used weapons of mass destruction during the U.S. invasion.
A poll of 1000 Germans by Die Zeit shows that 20% of Germans in all age groups and "almost 1/3" of Germs below the age of 30 believes that the United States may have sponsored the 9/11 attacks on New York and Washington.
"Asked whether they believed that the U.S. government could have ordered the September 11 attacks itself, 31 percent of those surveyed under the age of 30 in the poll answered "yes", while 19 percent overall gave the same answer."
A poll of 1000 Germans by Die Zeit shows that 20% of Germans in all age groups and "almost 1/3" of Germs below the age of 30 believes that the United States may have sponsored the 9/11 attacks on New York and Washington.
"Asked whether they believed that the U.S. government could have ordered the September 11 attacks itself, 31 percent of those surveyed under the age of 30 in the poll answered "yes", while 19 percent overall gave the same answer."
Goddamm. Those Germans are as stupid as us Americans.
Please don't make me laugh. The US is an economic basket case right now. And it looks to be getting worse...
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and bike racer
If you mean Armstrong, he is not the best bike racer in the world by a long shot. Bettini, Musseuw, Ullrich, Vinokourov, and even Hamilton have proven to be better this year. Armstrong, however, is one of the top 3 or 4 GT riders in the world.
"steve robertson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
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Jay Pique said:
And yet we still have the most dominant army
[military] - agreed
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economy
Please don't make me laugh. The US is an economic basket case right now. And it looks to be getting worse...
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and bike racer
If you mean Armstrong, he is not the best bike racer in the world by a long shot. Bettini, Musseuw, Ullrich, Vinokourov, and even Hamilton have proven to be better this year. Armstrong, however, is one of the top 3 or 4 GT riders in the world.
It's debatable whether he's the best cyclist, period, but he is unquestionably the best GT rider.
Wrong, Henry. Cause and effect are reversed. Americans can get away with being ignorant of foreign geography because we have the biggest economy (and because the countries on our borders are not military or economic threats). ...
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People aren't even informed about the war itself, or Al Qaeda, which 9/11 showed, is somewhat of a threat. Your analysis sucks. These poll results have recently been in the news: democraticunderground.com23 hole.htmlOpen ↗
I know all that stuff (maybe you thought I was endorsing our ignorance?) People are dumb, or misinformed, or lazy, or misled by their government. How does that contradict my statement? Americans know little about the outside world because they don't have to; they are insulated from it and can get away with their ignorance. Al Qaeda may be a threat, but even that is abstract to most people who don't live in New York or Washington or know someone who got killed. It just means they have to take their shoes off at the airport X-ray machines. I see the rest of the country driving around in their gas guzzlers, buying on credit, and sucking down their grande lattes as if nothing had happened.
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Some recent polls reveal 59% of Americans believe Saddam Hussein was involved in 9/11, and 50% believe Iraqis were among the 9/11 hijackers. 41% believe that WMD's have been found in Iraq, and 22% of Americans believe Iraq used weapons of mass destruction during the U.S. invasion
"Benjamin Weiner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
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Kurgan Gringioni said:
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Wrong, Henry. Cause and effect are reversed. Americans can get away with being ignorant of foreign geography because we have the biggest economy (and because the countries on our borders are not military or economic threats). ...
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People aren't even informed about the war itself, or Al Qaeda, which
I know all that stuff (maybe you thought I was endorsing our ignorance?) People are dumb, or misinformed, or lazy, or misled by their government. How does that contradict my statement? Americans know little about the outside world because they don't have to; they are insulated from it and can get away with their ignorance. Al Qaeda may be a threat, but even that is abstract to most people who don't live in New York or Washington or know someone who got killed. It just means they have to take their shoes off at the airport X-ray machines. I see the rest of the country driving around in their gas guzzlers, buying on credit, and sucking down their grande lattes as if nothing had happened.
Dumbass -
Ignorance leads to faulty conclusions which leads to faulty action.
There is a Pax Americana afoot now, but it will be a short-lived empire indeed without a well-chosen, wise and thoughtful path.
It's debatable whether he's the best cyclist, period, but he is unquestionably the best GT rider.
Armstrong has only won one GT. You may think that the Tour is the most important race, but the Vuelta and the Giro are very hard. In fact they (especially the Vuelta) are probably less dependent on the team and more on the rider.
Armstrong has not won either, and has not even contested the Giro (and the Vuelta only once). Ullrich has contested all three, and has won two of them so far.
"...unquestionably"? Perhaps you are letting your nationalistic fantasies overwhelm your common sense.
"steve robertson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
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Kurgan Gringioni said:
It's debatable whether he's the best cyclist, period, but he is unquestionably the best GT rider.
Armstrong has only won one GT. You may think that the Tour is the most important race, but the Vuelta and the Giro are very hard. In fact they (especially the Vuelta) are probably less dependent on the team and more on the rider.
Armstrong has not won either, and has not even contested the Giro (and the Vuelta only once). Ullrich has contested all three, and has won two of them so far.
"...unquestionably"? Perhaps you are letting your nationalistic fantasies overwhelm your common sense.
Americans know little about the outside world because they don't have to; they are insulated from it and can get away with their ignorance.
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Dumbass - Ignorance leads to faulty conclusions which leads to faulty action. There is a Pax Americana afoot now, but it will be a short-lived empire indeed without a well-chosen, wise and thoughtful path.
I agree with this. You are talking about facts: Americans are, on average, ignorant of foreign affairs. I am talking about the mechanism: why Americans are ignorant (because they suffer little harmful consequence from it, _in the short term_, so have no incentive to learn. Hey, it's a free market in ignorance!) Ignorance is not the same as arrogance (often it grows out of naivete) but it allows the knowledgeable but arrogant among us to dream of their Pax Americana. They should reread "The Best and the Brightest" maybe.
"Benjamin Weiner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
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Kurgan Gringioni said:
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Americans know little about the outside world because they don't have to; they are insulated from it and can get away with their ignorance.
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Dumbass - Ignorance leads to faulty conclusions which leads to faulty action. There is a Pax Americana afoot now, but it will be a short-lived empire indeed without a well-chosen, wise and thoughtful path.
I agree with this. You are talking about facts: Americans are, on average, ignorant of foreign affairs.
Dumbass -
If someone doesn't know where the Pacific Ocean is, how the hell are they supposed to *not* be ignorant of foreign affairs?
