Basso splitts with csc

zlatan said:

Basso splitts with csc!!!:eek:

it´s on cyclingnews.com

I don't care where he ends up. I know there will be others in the peleton on PEDs but he has as much credibility to me as Tyler Hamilton - none, minus credibility. I know he is legally free to race but only because his case was shelved. The Puerto investigation has been a bungled nonsense. It has delivered rumour and ambiguity, done nothing for either the (alleged) dopers, the anti-dopers, the image or spirit of cycling.

I can't help but ask: if Basso had no dealings with Fuentes and was totally innocent then he would have stood his ground in Strasbourg and not scuttled off with his tail between his legs. I know about Riis' history and allegations of his EPO use but still don't think he would have reacted the way he did, and subsequently has, if he thought that Ivan was truly innocent.

Rolfrae said:

I don't care where he ends up. I know there will be others in the peleton on PEDs but he has as much credibility to me as Tyler Hamilton - none, minus credibility. I know he is legally free to race but only because his case was shelved. The Puerto investigation has been a bungled nonsense. It has delivered rumour and ambiguity, done nothing for either the (alleged) dopers, the anti-dopers, the image or spirit of cycling.

I can't help but ask: if Basso had no dealings with Fuentes and was totally innocent then he would have stood his ground in Strasbourg and not scuttled off with his tail between his legs. I know about Riis' history and allegations of his EPO use but still don't think he would have reacted the way he did, and subsequently has, if he thought that Ivan was truly innocent.

i agree with you.. but when basso/ulle lawers (spelleing) says you should go home and be quiet then after 3 weeks we take it to court.. well i have take tha advise from my lawers (spelleing) and go home..

Whats only surprising in this is that Basso was professing genuine enthusiasm about staying with CSC - he was quoted as saying he helped build the team himself and felt it was partly his.

So to conclude from that it was Riis basically firing B. And he had the intention to all along - no Lombardia for Basso despite eligibility.

And yet you get the impression they never once spoke about OP since it broke. Basso said he hadnt spoke in 3 months with Riis and Basso says he immediately left the tour once shown the dossier (as a precaution/lawyers advice). So where was there time for the two to discuss anything

Was the evidence presented to Riis at the tour so conclusive that he didnt need Basso to explain anything? If that's what Riis felt, why didn't Basso feel the same? I mean it must have killed him to let Basso go.

wicklow200 said:

Whats only surprising in this is that Basso was professing genuine enthusiasm about staying with CSC - he was quoted as saying he helped build the team himself and felt it was partly his.

So to conclude from that it was Riis basically firing B. And he had the intention to all along - no Lombardia for Basso despite eligibility.

And yet you get the impression they never once spoke about OP since it broke. Basso said he hadnt spoke in 3 months with Riis and Basso says he immediately left the tour once shown the dossier (as a precaution/lawyers advice). So where was there time for the two to discuss anything

Was the evidence presented to Riis at the tour so conclusive that he didnt need Basso to explain anything? If that's what Riis felt, why didn't Basso feel the same? I mean it must have killed him to let Basso go.

I think you're right, Riis wouldn't easily have let Basso go. Basso was his dream ticket to Tour success. He has kept a distance and now let him leave as he knows that there is too great a risk to the team's sponsorship to maintain the relationship. What has to be borne in mind is that OP is not over and further evidence might well come out. Riis obviously believes that and isn't willing to risk any further embarrassment.

Looking ahead, are Disco really daft enought to get involved with Basso? I mean, they can hardly claim an anti-American conspiracy if Basso gets linked to any further wrong-doing.

CSC don't need Basso. He won the Giro, but that is only a part of CSC's large list of accomplishments this year. The team is strong on all fronts. Unlike, say, DC who have had problems when Lance left, I don't think CSC will notice too much though their grand tour success may be diminished some what.

Eldrack said:

CSC don't need Basso.

I imagine Riis has already got the jewellers working on a crown in Frank Schlek's size. 😄

Eldrack said:

CSC don't need Basso. He won the Giro, but that is only a part of CSC's large list of accomplishments this year. The team is strong on all fronts. Unlike, say, DC who have had problems when Lance left, I don't think CSC will notice too much though their grand tour success may be diminished some what.

That's a significant overstatement, in both respects. Take away Basso in the Giro and the Criterium International and CSC does not win the ProTour team title, for example, Caisse d'Epargne does. (As far as I can tell; I don't have the ability right now to redo all the calculations.) They are (rightfully) proud of being the top team and that would go away. They "would notice."

As for Discovery, they may have "had problems," but only in comparison to the LA years. A tie for fourth in the ProTour is not too shabby.

Either way, you don't want to lose a GT talent. You will notice, big time.

There has been so much rush to judgement, but where is the tangible and published evidence linking Basso to even doping offence. Sorry but third party references to one's dog's name (and even that apparently is in error) is hardly sufficient to convict much less accuse one of such a transgression.

Lastly, Bjarne is hardly Mr. Squeaky Clean. He's a hypocrite IMO.

Unless public evidence is presented against Basso, Jan et al., I say that we should reserve judgement. Months and months pass without anything tangible and yet many rush to conclusions.

Would any of you wish to be treated in the same manner?

wicklow200 said:

Whats only surprising in this is that Basso was professing genuine enthusiasm about staying with CSC - he was quoted as saying he helped build the team himself and felt it was partly his.

So to conclude from that it was Riis basically firing B. And he had the intention to all along - no Lombardia for Basso despite eligibility.

And yet you get the impression they never once spoke about OP since it broke. Basso said he hadnt spoke in 3 months with Riis and Basso says he immediately left the tour once shown the dossier (as a precaution/lawyers advice). So where was there time for the two to discuss anything

Was the evidence presented to Riis at the tour so conclusive that he didnt need Basso to explain anything? If that's what Riis felt, why didn't Basso feel the same? I mean it must have killed him to let Basso go.

I don't agree, Basso's enthousiasm could be important to get an interesting pay-off and Riis is under pressure of his sponsor. I think they both would want to continue their work but CSC (the company, not the team!) didn't want Basso anymore.

cyclingheroes said:

I don't agree, Basso's enthousiasm could be important to get an interesting pay-off and Riis is under pressure of his sponsor. I think they both would want to continue their work but CSC (the company, not the team!) didn't want Basso anymore.

OK, but see Im still fascinated as to what was in the documents the UCI showed Riis - what was so incriminating that they had to pull out Basso? This still hasn't come out in the wash.

But if Basso is happy to take a payoff and not open up the issue again, I suppose the truth is never going to be told.

CH - have you heard any rumours that Eddy Mazzolini (Basso's brother in law) was a link man between Fuentes and Italy?

WE ALL KNOW WHERE BASSO WILL GO -- WHERE IS GOING TO GO, MILRAM -- I THINK NOT.
[
DISCOVERY

He needs not only $, but also climbing and time trialing and other support. Who would not want these people as support:

Levi
Hincapie
Chechu
Popo
Brajkovich
even T Danielson
Padrnos

A not so surprising post coming from you... 🙂

You are right, these guys are very good support. It would be a fantastic GT team. But will Leipheimer accept a supporting role in TdF? Unless Bruyneel said something like "you ride support in the tour, but we don't know for who yet" when he signed for Disco, I doubt it. And if I was LL, I would not have signed under such circumstances.

musette said:

WE ALL KNOW WHERE BASSO WILL GO -- WHERE IS GOING TO GO, MILRAM -- I THINK NOT.
[
DISCOVERY

He needs not only $, but also climbing and time trialing and other support. Who would not want these people as support:

Levi
Hincapie
Chechu
Popo
Brajkovich
even T Danielson
Padrnos

musette said:

WE ALL KNOW WHERE BASSO WILL GO -- WHERE IS GOING TO GO, MILRAM -- I THINK NOT.
[
DISCOVERY

He needs not only $, but also climbing and time trialing and other support. Who would not want these people as support:

Levi
Hincapie
Chechu
Popo
Brajkovich
even T Danielson
Padrnos

As I've read about the rumors of Basso joining Discovery, I keep wondering what Levi, Hincapie and Popo are thinking. I imagine Levi joined DSC with the expectations of being a team leader, Hincapie had been touted (for 2006) as a rider whose time had come after years of support of Lance and Popo has been described as the heir apparent for team leadership. Do you see all of them serving a support role for Basso?

Frank Schlek is already the "bright boy" for CSC - Riis is grooming him allright. CSC can get by without Basso - they are a team oriented team, with a stallar list of riders. They had great team standing in the TDF - were the no#1 pro team without Basso - and i think that they can have a solid crack at the TdF without Basso.

CSCs approach is a "system" that grooms a team for success, and Frank Schlek will be their new star - the "cherry on top". [my 2c]

Leipheimer v Basso on Discovery? hmmmm. Maybe....

...and for what it's worth, anyone who thinks that blood doping is the worst of what goes on in the pro peleton has rocks in their head. drugs are a part of any sport, and cycling has had extensive drug use from the begining of last century. Long stage races are inhuman events - and it isn't just fitness, nutrition and a massage that gets people through - just like the Olympic Sprinters. Atfer powerlifting. cycling has maybe the most drug use of any sport - so i think it's more who gets caught through bad planning and masking rather then people "cheating" for an unfair advantage.

my opinion - but supported by fact - not what I'd "like to believe".

Van Hilliard said:

As I've read about the rumors of Basso joining Discovery, I keep wondering what Levi, Hincapie and Popo are thinking. I imagine Levi joined DSC with the expectations of being a team leader, Hincapie had been touted (for 2006) as a rider whose time had come after years of support of Lance and Popo has been described as the heir apparent for team leadership. Do you see all of them serving a support role for Basso?

George -- Will be happy he doesn't feel the pressure of being co-leader again. Now is aware of how hard it is to be team leader, and probably doesn't have pretensions he can podium at the Tour. Probably would have worked for Levi anyhow, even without Basso. So George will be neutral or perhaps even relieved.

Popo -- Had arguably a bad year last year, for somebody who has been indicated by Bruyneel to be a future TdF winner. Very young to lead a team, and probably won't mind having Basso around for at least a year or two (probably the duration of Popo's contract, given that he is already 2 years into his contract with DC and I doubt he signed more than a three year contract). This takes pressure off Popo too. May have had to at least share team leadership, if not work for, Levi even without Basso, so Basso's addition may only mean it is clearer that Popo won't be leading DC on his own and will have to work for somebody.

Levi -- The biggest loser, as identified by other members, if Basso joins. I don't know what Bruyneel promised him, because he signed with Discovery before the TdF began (possibly before Puerto exclusion of Basso and JU from TdF were announced, and before Bruyneel felt there might be a glimmer of hope that CSC would drop Basso). However, Bruyneel and LA will sign Basso regardless of what Levi was promised. Bottom line is that they have coveted Basso for a long time and he is a lot younger than Levi and stronger than Levi.

Levi might co-lead with Basso, but that would be in name only, because once we hit the big stages, Basso will do better and then the whole team will probably be working for Basso.

DISCOVERY IS NOW IN AN EXCELLENT POSITION. JU DOESN'T YET HAVE A TEAM, SO BASSO CANNOT BE TOO GREEDY (EVEN THOUGH HE KNOWS BRUYNEEL COVETS HIM), BECAUSE JU ALSO WANTS STRONG TEAM SUPPORT AND A VERY GOOD DS (WHICH ONLY DC HAS RIGHT NOW, OF AVAILABLE TEAMS).

Here are ProTour teams that definitely do not need leaders, or that otherwise are not in the running to get Basso:

1) Milram -- DS has confirmed that they decided not to pursue Basso (Procycling)

2) Astana -- Way too many leaders to begin with, with Vino/Klodie/Kasheshkin (spelling).

3) T-Mobile -- Will not want Puerto-suspected rider.

4) Quick Step -- Boonen wouldn't tolerate it, and Boonen train would take up too many domestiques. Also does not have Grand Tour support for GC win.

5) CSC -- Obvious reason.

6) Caisse -- Already has Valverde (Spanish management very happy to have him, to try and replicate an Indurain situation) and Perreiro.

7) Saunier Duval -- Probably spent their remaining meaningful bucks on Mayo.

8) Euskatel -- Not sufficient reliable support. Not enough money to pay Basso and keep team supported the way Basso is looking to be.

9) Ag2R, Bouyges, Cofidis, Credit Agricole, Française Des Jeux FRA -- All French teams that, given their historical arguments about non-French teams doping and Basso's affiliation with Puerto, would not touch Basso or JU.

Remaining teams are not as good as DC for either Basso or JU.

Rabo -- Probably perceived by Basso as not having sufficiently strong DS direction. Also already has Menchov.

Gerolsteiner -- Doesn't have climbing support. Probably doesn't want Puerto-implicated Basso and definitely doesn't want JU.

Lampre -- Not strong enough as support, notwithstanding Cunego.

Liquigas actually might have potential, but they are not as well run as DC and do not have a demonstrated track record of DS capability to win a Tour de France. Also, what is the status of DiLuca's contract?

Sounds like Basso and JU are both competing for the same job of being leader for Discovery for the Tour. Sounds like Bruyneel wants Basso, and Basso knows what Bruyneel can provide ($, team support, affiliation with Basso's admired person LA, great DS experience for the Tour).

In short, sounds like Basso surely in Discovery Channel colors next season. 😄

It's all coming together for DC and Basso.

In sharp contrast to Bruyneel's denial of any current discussion with JU a little while back, this is reported:

"Discovery Channel manager Johan Bruyneel confirmed his team's interest in Basso. Bruyneel has been looking for a replacement for Armstrong since he retired in 2005 after his Tour win. "It's not new to anybody that I've been interested in Basso for a long time," Bruyneel told The Associated Press in a telephone interview. "I have tried to get him a few times, but it has not worked out.""

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news;_ylt=Au9DxwOHTqIY9kFH65uTf5V.grcF?slug=ap-basso-csc&prov=ap&type=lgns

Now that I read the Basso reports of earlier comments more carefully: ""They [DC] made me a concrete proposal, but I am open to other solutions," said Basso, adding that there was also a chance he could join an Italian team."

I think the Italian team that is pursuing him might not be Milram any more, but Lampre or Liquigas.

musette said:

Levi -- The biggest loser, as identified by other members, if Basso joins. I don't know what Bruyneel promised him, because he signed with Discovery before the TdF began (possibly before Puerto exclusion of Basso and JU from TdF were announced, and before Bruyneel felt there might be a glimmer of hope that CSC would drop Basso). However, Bruyneel and LA will sign Basso regardless of what Levi was promised. Bottom line is that they have coveted Basso for a long time and he is a lot younger than Levi and stronger than Levi.

Levi might co-lead with Basso, but that would be in name only, because once we hit the big stages, Basso will do better and then the whole team will probably be working for Basso.

I wonder if the Levi signing was a reflex action brought on by the disjointed events this past year. There are plenty of races for Levi to compete in as DC leader. He seems to like the shorter stage races and likes to compete in the larger domestic races as well, Toc, ToG, GP, Sea Otter....etc. He should be fine....

I thought he (Levi) signed with DC after TdF, July 24th or so ?

lw

He signed after, but it was later remarked that he had agreed with them before. Luckily for him too, since he disappointed at the Tour.

Levi could perhaps be team leader in the Giro and the Vuelta. Goodness knows that Tommy D needs a replacement as DC Vuelta leader. Given that Popo and/or Levi might have to focus their GC hopes on the Giro and the Vuelta (not necessarily in that order), another loser to a Basso transfer to DC would be: TOMMY D!!! Another reason Basso's transfer is a great idea! 😄 😉

Popo used to love the Giro, and it was only at Bruyneel's request that he did not ride the Giro in 05 and 06 and focused on the Tour.