Basso's Been Suspended!

Seems like Discovery would have been smart to put some kind of clause in Basso's contract that if he is definantly linked to the Fuentes thing with a DNA test or something else concrete, that he owes Discovery some reparations. Guess Discovery dropped the ball on this one, even if he is cleared 100%, which would be nice, their name has already been dragged through the mud. Riis made the right choice letting Basso go. All of this of course is hindsight, and this should be interesting to see how it plays out, and if things get settled before the Giro.

gregkeller said:

Seems like Discovery would have been smart to put some kind of clause in Basso's contract that if he is definantly linked to the Fuentes thing with a DNA test or something else concrete, that he owes Discovery some reparations. Guess Discovery dropped the ball on this one, even if he is cleared 100%, which would be nice, their name has already been dragged through the mud. Riis made the right choice letting Basso go. All of this of course is hindsight, and this should be interesting to see how it plays out, and if things get settled before the Giro.

Buddy. Nothing will be settled by the giro. Basso wont be racing his bike ever again. Once they finally test the blood it will be curtains for him.

dm69 said:

Buddy. Nothing will be settled by the giro. Basso wont be racing his bike ever again. Once they finally test the blood it will be curtains for him.

Not quite. He's like 29. If his lawyer is good and the Italian federation is accomodating, he might have his suspension date start after the 2006 Giro. The federation would have to overlook his racing in California and such. He could be eligible for racing at the middle of next year.

He probably won't ever be allowed by the ASO to race the TdF and the ProTour teams would be forbidden from hiring him for an additional two years, but he could sign with a small Spanish Continental team and race next year's Vuelta. He could be on a ProTour team when he is 32 and race until he is 35.

Bro Deal said:

Not quite. He's like 29. If his lawyer is good and the Italian federation is accomodating, he might have his suspension date start after the 2006 Giro. The federation would have to overlook his racing in California and such. He could be eligible for racing at the middle of next year.

He probably won't ever be allowed by the ASO to race the TdF and the ProTour teams would be forbidden from hiring him for an additional two years, but he could sign with a small Spanish Continental team and race next year's Vuelta. He could be on a ProTour team when he is 32 and race until he is 35.

Nobody knows what is going to happen. He may ride again or he may not. It certainly does not look good though. Got to wonder how many of these guys have actually doped though. Wouldn't surprise me either way. As to him ever riding again, I am not sure if I am in support of a lifetime ban or not. It's like if I did something wrong at my job should I be prohibited from ever returning to the workplace in my field of choice. I know we are talking competitive sports here so the comparison is not the same, but if there is a penalty and you server it out, you should be allowed to ride again.

jcthomasjr said:

Nobody knows what is going to happen. He may ride again or he may not. It certainly does not look good though. Got to wonder how many of these guys have actually doped though. Wouldn't surprise me either way. As to him ever riding again, I am not sure if I am in support of a lifetime ban or not. It's like if I did something wrong at my job should I be prohibited from ever returning to the workplace in my field of choice. I know we are talking competitive sports here so the comparison is not the same, but if there is a penalty and you server it out, you should be allowed to ride again.

He is not likely to be permanently banned. He has already sat out for nearly a year and his lawyer will do his best to get him credit for that. He will probably be able to sign with a Pro Continental Italian team and race the Giro in 2009. He would be 31 I think.

All the top riders dope. The bill has now come for a lot of them.

Basso's best strategy would be to pull a mea culpa, apologize for being led astray or some other B.S. excuse, and accept a two year ban that starts after the 2006 Giro.

Its quite sad what has happend to Basso.. He is an awsome rider and his career is slowy being destroyed.

Anyways im new, Hi I love watching cycling. No much of a rider...yet 😉

If this is a re-play of Ullrich's struggle, Basso will be hounded into retirement by the media.
It is very difficult to come back to where you were if you are pushed out while at the top of your game.
He may come back sometime but I predict he will never be as he was and sponsors are getting hard to find with all the bad press.
All other considerations aside Basso is a nice guy and a great cyclist.
I believe we will need to see re-birth of cycle racing because what we once knew is near death.

Peronsally I'm getting pi$$ed off with this whole Operation P.

First they announce a massive bust a week before the TdF (rather convenient timing I'd say!!!).

Then *[censored]* all is dropped due to lack of evidence.

The suddenly they announce another massive bust 2 weeks before the Giro (rather convenient timing I'd say....).

Someone is out there to destroy cycling and just about every cycling official, body, organisation is happily being led by the nose down the road to destruction.

Find some hard fu**ing evidence THEN start busting people - this whole they're guilty, maybe, if we can find the right evidence, but until we do we're going to gamble with and wreck their careers until we've finished what we think we're looking for approach is [censored].

More than a handful of rider's careers have been ruined and we still don't have ONE positive.

Cycling officialdom is slitting their own throats. Who's going to need them when all the riders have been found guilty by media trial?

F**king w@nkers.

Eldron said:

Peronsally I'm getting pi$$ed off with this whole Operation P.

First they announce a massive bust a week before the TdF (rather convenient timing I'd say!!!).

Then *[censored]* all is dropped due to lack of evidence.

The suddenly they announce another massive bust 2 weeks before the Giro (rather convenient timing I'd say....).

Someone is out there to destroy cycling and just about every cycling official, body, organisation is happily being led by the nose down the road to destruction.

Find some hard fu**ing evidence THEN start busting people - this whole they're guilty, maybe, if we can find the right evidence, but until we do we're going to gamble with and wreck their careers until we've finished what we think we're looking for approach is [censored].

More than a handful of rider's careers have been ruined and we still don't have ONE positive.

Cycling officialdom is slitting their own throats. Who's going to need them when all the riders have been found guilty by media trial?

F**king w@nkers.

Well, I agree with you that Op. Puerto is being incredibly poorly handled, enough to make you wonder if it isn't a conspiricy. But buried in the 6000 pages reported in the press, there are at least some facts. Ulrich's DNA matched OP blood, so in my book that IS a positive. It sure looks like Basso expects his DNA to match as well. That is the big argument right now. According to the press reports, the Spanish teams are against DNA testing, and simply want to start "fresh"; the European teams in general want DNA testing to finally state categorically whose blood was in Fuentes' care, and who is not involved. Again, going only by my reading of the reports, the Spanish reluctance probably relates to the preponderance of Spanish riders listed in the OP documents. They were originally declared "clean" not for lack of evidence, but because Spain had no laws against sports doping (blood or EPO, etc.), only against practices that damaged the health of the "patient." So the riders were cleared on the grounds that no law had been broken. What you might call a "technicality." The European teams, presumably with fewer riders at risk, want to clear the reputation of their riders and the sport, so they are pushing for a match of DNA samples against the 200+ bags of blood in the OP freezer. My real problem with this is that everything seems to drag on indefinitely, no one seems able or willing to just do the testing and be done with it.

I believe we will need to see re-birth of cycle racing because what we once knew is near death.[/QUOTE]
You've got that right. But, actually, it always has been corrupt as hell; it's just that now we all know it.

The reputation of doping within cycling is a problem. But a governing body that treats athletes as "Guilty until proven innocent" rather than the other way around is a bigger one. I can understand there desire to come down really hard on any cyclist possibly doping, but I think there has to be more intelligent and less rash way to handle drug allegations.

Eldron said:

Peronsally I'm getting pi$$ed off with this whole Operation P.

First they announce a massive bust a week before the TdF (rather convenient timing I'd say!!!).

Then *[censored]* all is dropped due to lack of evidence.

The suddenly they announce another massive bust 2 weeks before the Giro (rather convenient timing I'd say....).

Someone is out there to destroy cycling and just about every cycling official, body, organisation is happily being led by the nose down the road to destruction.

Find some hard fu**ing evidence THEN start busting people - this whole they're guilty, maybe, if we can find the right evidence, but until we do we're going to gamble with and wreck their careers until we've finished what we think we're looking for approach is [censored].

More than a handful of rider's careers have been ruined and we still don't have ONE positive.

Cycling officialdom is slitting their own throats. Who's going to need them when all the riders have been found guilty by media trial?

F**king w@nkers.

totally [censored] agreeden with ya mate

they need to [censored] put up or shut up

if you have hard evidence--then pursue appropriate action. if not, then go to hell and stop with the rumour and speculation that gets fueled from this.

palewin said:

Well, I agree with you that Op. Puerto is being incredibly poorly handled, enough to make you wonder if it isn't a conspiricy. But buried in the 6000 pages reported in the press, there are at least some facts. Ulrich's DNA matched OP blood, so in my book that IS a positive. It sure looks like Basso expects his DNA to match as well. That is the big argument right now. According to the press reports, the Spanish teams are against DNA testing, and simply want to start "fresh"; the European teams in general want DNA testing to finally state categorically whose blood was in Fuentes' care, and who is not involved. Again, going only by my reading of the reports, the Spanish reluctance probably relates to the preponderance of Spanish riders listed in the OP documents. They were originally declared "clean" not for lack of evidence, but because Spain had no laws against sports doping (blood or EPO, etc.), only against practices that damaged the health of the "patient." So the riders were cleared on the grounds that no law had been broken. What you might call a "technicality." The European teams, presumably with fewer riders at risk, want to clear the reputation of their riders and the sport, so they are pushing for a match of DNA samples against the 200+ bags of blood in the OP freezer. My real problem with this is that everything seems to drag on indefinitely, no one seems able or willing to just do the testing and be done with it.

Personally I would have done the following:

Warn (not ban) the riders implicated in Op. Puerto and increase the amount they are tested out of season and during races (even if it means testing other riders less to keep the budget the same).

Ask all the implicated riders to give DNA samples - they have 1 month to comply after which they will not be allowed to race until the sample is supplied.

5 year ban to all riders who's blood matches Fuentes blood (Fuentes blood with illegal substances that is - all Fuentes blood without illegal substances gets thrown out).

Take the rest of the blood bags and throw them out. With the limited budgets and resources finding every guilty party would be impossible.

Surely that would have been better than the "none of you can race until we know our a$$ from our elbows approach".

Sadly I agree on the Ullrich positive - he is/was one of my heroes...

If cycling's ever going to survive doping, they need to:

1. Stop associating with WADA

Find a new organization to handle doping checks. They clearly hate cyclists and won't be happy until the sport is dead. They also seem to have little respect for rules, proper lab quality control or "innocent until proven guilty."

2. Make a pension plan for all pro cyclists (you'd have to give at least 3 years or something) so they have something to fall back on and don't feel the need to dope to stay in cycling to earn more.

3. Make minimum salaries for cyclists that ensure everyone's able to make a living even without drugs

4. Make a more fair testing system that gives cyclists the ability to ensure they're being tested honestly and that mistakes will pretty much never ruin their careers.

5. Set up a committee to anonymously gather info from the cyclists on why those who dope do and why those who don't don't so they can better discourage it.

I don't buy the argument that WADA and Operation Puerto should stop because they are sullying cycling's reputation. The sport has ruined its own reputation. The only way to make things better is to clean it up. I don't care if football/basketball/athletics are dirtier. Cycling is my sport and I don't like seeing these guys screw with it. If you think there is no problem, just consider this partial list:

Basso
Ulrich
Pantani
Landis
Heras
Museeuw
Camenzind
Casagranda
Garzelli
Aitor Gonzalez
Hamilton
Millar
Rumsas
Frigo
Vandenbroucke
Virenque
Zulle
Bruylandts
Armstrong

If you believe that Armstrong with his six positive B samples and Riis (ie, Mr. 61%) were doping, then the last 11 Tours were tainted by scandals involving the winner.

Nine of the last 11 Vuelta winners have failed tests. Six of the last 11 Giro winners have failed tests (excluding Simoni's two wins because he was cleared).

My solution is to provide amnesty to people who want to clean up the sport. Let people like Riis and Vaughters speak candidly without fear of getting banned. The UCI should also be removed completely from regulating anything to do with doping. The UCI is only concerned about the image of cycling. They have an inherant conflict of interest. First, they want to make it seem as if doping doesn't exist and are prone to overlook or deny problems. Second, if somebody does come clean like Basso, they refuse to give a lighter sentence and in effect encourage riders to deny their guilt.

I love this sport. I just don't plan on sitting around quietly while other deny the existence of a huge problem.

donrhummy said:

If cycling's ever going to survive doping, they need to:

1. Stop associating with WADA

Find a new organization to handle doping checks. They clearly hate cyclists and won't be happy until the sport is dead. They also seem to have little respect for rules, proper lab quality control or "innocent until proven guilty."

2. Make a pension plan for all pro cyclists (you'd have to give at least 3 years or something) so they have something to fall back on and don't feel the need to dope to stay in cycling to earn more.

3. Make minimum salaries for cyclists that ensure everyone's able to make a living even without drugs

4. Make a more fair testing system that gives cyclists the ability to ensure they're being tested honestly and that mistakes will pretty much never ruin their careers.

5. Set up a committee to anonymously gather info from the cyclists on why those who dope do and why those who don't don't so they can better discourage it.

no1kung1 said:

The reputation of doping within cycling is a problem. But a governing body that treats athletes as "Guilty until proven innocent" rather than the other way around is a bigger one. I can understand there desire to come down really hard on any cyclist possibly doping, but I think there has to be more intelligent and less rash way to handle drug allegations.

Well the news finally surfaced that Basso was indeed involved in what he calls "attempted doping". Sad and amazing, but that is reality. I don't know why "some" people with talent have to look for shortcuts or ways to one-up others. The beauty of sport is the competion. If the playing field is not level, meaning based on talent, dedication, preparation, luck, circumstances, etc., what is the point. Unlike some people, I will always follow cyling and continue to cycle myself because I think it is a beautiful sport, but these athletes who attempt to circumvent the system really do f@@k things up for themselves and for the sport. He may be a "champion" and have "courage" to some people, as stated in the VeloNews article, but the fact is he was looking to cheat in order to win.

jcthomasjr said:

If I did something wrong at my job should I be prohibited from ever returning to the workplace in my field of choice.

Perhaps if what someone 'did wrong' involved repeatedly constructing false stories to evade being exposed, and basically lying through their teeth about what they had done, then it is maybe right to ban that person from practicing their chosen trade / sport. Less for the original mistake / crime and more for the obvious lack of any form of trustworthiness that the behaviour implies.

At least some of the riders (Millar) are willing to say 'okay I've been caught, I will have to take the punishment'. The preposterous, twisting, turning, tornado of 'creative scenarios' for the evidence, that have spouted from Basso, Landis and Hamilton et al, is not only bewildering (that they think anyone is going to believe that kind of [censored]) it devalues the individuals moral currency to precisely nothing.

Why do they cheat...for the money!!! for the money!!! for the money!!! They almost all dope so if one decides not to dope, he doesn't have a chance in hell to win...and they want to win.

violette said:

Why do they cheat...for the money!!! for the money!!! for the money!!! They almost all dope so if one decides not to dope, he doesn't have a chance in hell to win...and they want to win.

Of course. Nothing could be more true. But if you take the risk, for the money, you know that you might get caught and suffer the consequence. It's less the cheating and the catching riders out that bugs me now, than the preposterous stories that are spun to try and cover up for it. As long as it's classified as being against the rules and they cheat, they should at least have the spine to face up that day when it happens.

Or better still, the testing regimes shall be made more efficient and they will all be forced onto a drug free 'level playing field'.