jeremy said:Since when is it considered proper etiquete to take a pull?
Since when? Since forever under circamstances where the rider in
question has a stake in the pace.
Quoted message said:Isn't that the problem with all these cat V racers now a days? They
go
Quoted message said:straight to the front and hammer to prove how strong they are or
because they feel obligated, when in reality, they are only killing
themselves.
"These days"? How about, "Hasn't that always been the problem with the
entrry level categories? Some go straight to the front and it becomes a
race of attrition. The answer is yeah, much of the time but what does
that have to do with the Giro?
Quoted message said:I can recall O'Grady in a break in the TDF last year not doing any
work
Quoted message said:because he knew he could win if it came down to a sprint.
Quoted message said:(http://www.velonews.com/tour2004/details/articles/6491.0.html)
If O'Grady did not pull, it was NOT exclusievly because he expected to
win in a sprint. His break had to survive to maximize his chances
there. As the best pure sprinter of the 3 he had the most options to
win. He just had to make sure he did not work too much harder than his
2 companions so they did not get a benefit in the sprint or from an
attack due to fatigue from his effort. You say he "did not do any
work", but the report indicates he was active throughout the duration
of the break. If you are responding to what you saw on TV, then you
along with most other observers have to remember you have no chance to
see enough of the race to really know for certain everything that is
happening. It sounds like he worked his ass off early on and picked up
some intermediate sprints vitories so he may have stopped working or
probably just skipped a few turns as they closed in on the final
sprint. The others could have done the same thing but I bet they
already accepted their chances of beating him and allowed him to skip a
few turns to make up for doing so much work earlier. Also, O'Grady
spent several years racing with Magnus and they may have had some give
and take agreements including what I said about skipping a few turns to
even up the workload. The only chance Piil had to beat O'Grady was to
catch him off guard (either in a very late break off OTF or sprinting
from his blind spot while he concentrates on Magnus) and "yelling at
him to take a pull" would be a good way of making that a close to zero
possibility.
Quoted message said:If anyone yells at me to take a turn at the front and I'm not
inclined,
Quoted message said:I give 'em the bird.
Fine, that is your choice and you live with the consequences. I am sure
most other Cat V dorks don't know hwo to respond to that. You must
really bring a lot of joy to the sport. In any case, just because
someone yells doesn't mean you are obligated to do what they say. I
laugh if anyone ever yelled at me but I don't think it has ever
happened. IF you don't take a pull then you do not get to influence the
pace. I am guessing that in your scenario, it was really no big deal
that you are talking about large groups where nobody really knows what
they are doing and a few morons yell because of their lame
misunderstanding about what circumstances obligate a rider to pull.
Generally speaking, the larger the group the lower your obligation is
to go anywhere near the front. If you are in a large group in an entry
level race (as I imagine you to be where you flip "the bird" to the
other morons yelling at you) then what you really should do is get your
lame bird-flipping ass out of the way if you are not going to
contribute to the pace. If I was near the front of a largish group I
would not be concerned about who was working BUT there have been times
where I have let guys know when they were screwing things up by being
overly selfish about their placement. IOW, they wanted to be where they
perceived the sweet spot to be, but they were preventing a smooth flow
of the rotation of guys that *were* making the pace. I have never
yelled and nobody ever got mad at me for helping them understand things
better. Instead of worrying about some vague sense of what ettiquette
demands, maybe you need to read some books about the history of the
sport and racing instead of expecting to get any wisdom about the same
issues from a NG. Yes there are plenty of wise people posting stuff but
you won't recognize it from the BS until you are close to the same
level.
Quoted message said:Rujano was not obligated to take a pull in that break. If Garate
beat
Quoted message said:him to the line, Rujano has only himself to blame.
What is the basis for your statement? In your view, under what
circumstances would he or anyone be obligated? It sounds like you
believe no such obligation ever exists. Can you give an example of when
you think someone would be obligated?
