Base Training definition.....

lorrod said:

Back in the day, coaches use to recommend doing about 1,000 to 1,200 miles of base training(usually winter months) prior to adding hills, bigger gears, intervals, sprints, etc. I'm assuming that these base miles were essentially done in Zones 1 and 2 only. Is this still the case? Or do they recommend more hours, miles? Any attempts into Zones 3 and 4 during base?

in general you should ride at most levels of intensity year round. Limiting yourself to low intensity riding, is going to lose all your fitness. There's no physiological reason for only riding at low intensity.

ric

lorrod said:

Back in the day, coaches use to recommend doing about 1,000 to 1,200 miles of base training(usually winter months) prior to adding hills, bigger gears, intervals, sprints, etc. I'm assuming that these base miles were essentially done in Zones 1 and 2 only. Is this still the case? Or do they recommend more hours, miles? Any attempts into Zones 3 and 4 during base?

base training is not a good idea if all you are going to do is cruise around. base is a hell of a lot of km's (as many as you can fit in) at any intensity you want, If you feel like doing a 40kmTT one day or climbing the next day then DO IT! Just make sure that you are on the bike for a LONG TIME! A typical base ride for me is 3-5 hours with efforts on whatever hills I go over. Usually some high cadence stuff on the downhills, Hard Tempo/ TT work in the headwinds and sprints whenever I can be arsed. By the end of the ride I have done a fair bit of intensity and a lot of endurance

You should not only provide yourself with an endurance base but also a base for every other skill/ intensity you need when you race. Simply cruising around all the time is stupid, Simply going to the gym all the time is stupid, Simply doing TT work all the time is stupid etc. Combine all!

Some days I only do 60km's (work, school, study & life) at an easy pace, I guess these are active recovery days.

Do what you want on the bike and KEEP RACING!!! try to work on spinning, endurance, gym work, climbing, sprinting, tempo (everything :p ). Still record all your training data with a HRM or PM because it will be useful when you start doing more specific training. Dont get bogged down with base work though, eventually you will get sick of doing whatever you feel like and you will want some discipline or a set goal you want to achieve. This calls for specializing your training.

The question(s) I have as it pertains to this topic...

All the books will say to build a base in the early season. The problem is that the early season for many people is extremely cold & snowy. I just read the outlines of the Morris plan and the Aerobic Base starts in January. It's impractical to build any base miles in January, unless you want to go slowly insane on your trainer.

So what's a realistic approach with this? I ride MTB so even during the cold days (without snow) you can maintain a 2-2.5 hour ride once a week. But more than that is too painful. What is the best approach here?

normZurawski said:

The question(s) I have as it pertains to this topic...

All the books will say to build a base in the early season.

if by "base" you mean, long steady distance, then no, they don't.

Quoted post said:

The problem is that the early season for many people is extremely cold & snowy. I just read the outlines of the Morris plan and the Aerobic Base starts in January. It's impractical to build any base miles in January, unless you want to go slowly insane on your trainer.

So what's a realistic approach with this? I ride MTB so even during the cold days (without snow) you can maintain a 2-2.5 hour ride once a week. But more than that is too painful. What is the best approach here?

reverse periodisation, that is intensity, when you are e.g., time limited or limited by inclement weather. As i mentioned in my previous post there's not a whole lot of reasons for just riding steady.

ric

Thanks for the reply.

That's what I was planning to do this offseason - reverse periodization in terms of intensity. That's something Dave Harris suggests as well. His suggestion is that you work on power at threshold first, then work your way down the intensity ladder as the season goes on. His focus, like mine, is on endurance MTB events. Then as the weather gets warmer your long training rides are not limited by lack of power, and so on.

You suggest that long rides be mixed with all sorts of elements of training, such as hills & sprints, as I understand it. Correct?

The Morris plan outline I read recently suggests 3 weeks of aerobic building in January, with 3-6 hour rides. This was as translated by a Morris Plan user, so the translation may have been off.

Also, are you a proponent of block training (micro and macro) one energy system?

normZurawski said:

You suggest that long rides be mixed with all sorts of elements of training, such as hills & sprints, as I understand it. Correct?

Also, are you a proponent of block training (micro and macro) one energy system?

I'm not suggesting you have to fit everything into one session, but i can't see why a session can't include several aspects of training.

i'm quite happy advocating training 'different' energy systems in one session, or one time period.

ric

If this helps, I am building base miles right now (I just got back in). What i find myself trying to do is ride at an intensity that allows me to come home tired, but not bonked or in pain. I never hammer, but due to our roads (always rolling, short hills of med grade) I am often at or above 164bpm for stretches of 10 or 20 minutes where I feel I am at my lactate threshold (legs burning, labored breathing). I try to fully recover on a flatter or more less rolling area till I feel fresh then tempo ride for awhile till I hit a steeper, longer hill and go up it as fast a pace as I can muster, but again, not hammer. Of course every ride is a little quicker than the last with more time spent riding tempo and less cruising. I'll ride at over 120rpm, ride for a spell in a bigger gear than I like at 88rpm. When my legs are really burning, I stand up and sprint for a few seoncds and sit back down and continue to climb.

Although unstructured as it sounds, it has a goal of building the base you need, but not boringly so. It keep things fresh and fun and much less worries about injury. I am already seeing gains in my times up over hills Ive done before and quicker recovery after hills for the next tempo session. I have foind for me the only way to increase performance is to push harder.

But-again-I am still riding base miles and taking it quite easy, but the terrain I am in and the gearing I have doesnt allow me to just cruise!! I'd need a triple to ride the hills here at low heart rate and effort.

Carmichael makes an analogy of training to painting your house. You wouldn't paint one wall in one room, the ceiling in another, another wall in yet another room - etc. Not a very efficient process.

If you want to get good at climbing, you need to focus on climbing. If you want to get good at TT then you need to focus on that. Sprinting, or whatever else, the same thing. If you mix everything together, you will get in good general physical shape, but never achieve your full potential that you get from overloading or focusing on one area at a time.

I'm in the middle of Carmichaels advanced 7 week training program. There are alot of recovery ride days. I haven't lost any of my fitness and have much more power that I had just going out and doing all types of rides all week. I was definitely overtraining trying to do everything at once.

HDWound said:

Carmichael makes an analogy of training to painting your house. You wouldn't paint one wall in one room, the ceiling in another, another wall in yet another room - etc. Not a very efficient process.

If you want to get good at climbing, you need to focus on climbing. If you want to get good at TT then you need to focus on that. Sprinting, or whatever else, the same thing. If you mix everything together, you will get in good general physical shape, but never achieve your full potential that you get from overloading or focusing on one area at a time.

I'm in the middle of Carmichaels advanced 7 week training program. There are alot of recovery ride days. I haven't lost any of my fitness and have much more power that I had just going out and doing all types of rides all week. I was definitely overtraining trying to do everything at once.

But are you still doing a RaceSimulation(tm)* once a week? Seems to me that if you focus on only one room, the other rooms will fade. I'm in the Block Training camp but I recognize the need to "shore up" those other areas on a regular basis.

*sorry, couldn't resist

lorrod said:

Back in the day, coaches use to recommend doing about 1,000 to 1,200 miles of base training(usually winter months) prior to adding hills, bigger gears, intervals, sprints, etc. I'm assuming that these base miles were essentially done in Zones 1 and 2 only. Is this still the case? Or do they recommend more hours, miles? Any attempts into Zones 3 and 4 during base?

Here is a different perspective on "base" training.
http://www.biketechreview.com/performance/base.htm
I am not saying that I endorse it (as is) 100%, but still, that's an interesting perspective.

SolarEnergy said:

Here is a different perspective on "base" training.
biketechreview.combase.htmOpen ↗
I am not saying that I endorse it (as is) 100%, but still, that's an interesting perspective.

I tend to agree with this perspective, more or less.

normZurawski said:

I tend to agree with this perspective, more or less.

The angle with which I do agree 100% is the fact that threshold power is the base, in many events in cycling, running, swimming and probably most other cyclic endurance sports.

In fact, when we think about it, it's the first real measurable quality. Many like to develop L4 before developing L5 or L6. Few evaluate L2 or L3.

Now as for the precise spot in the threshold spectrum (MP20, MP60), I guess that depends on the sport.

In pool swimming, I would use MP20 (events ranging from 22sec to 15min) more than MP60. The latter suits cycling better than swimming.

Random thoughts:

1. each of us is different. We all respond differently (physically and mentally) to training. There is no, one, cookie-cutter approach that works best for everyone.

Ideally, we should all be familiar with the various training theories out there, and then experiment with them to find out what works best for us individually.

2. each of us is different. A Cat 5 racer whose longest race is a 15-mile crit. will not need to do the same training mileage as a Cat. 3 who will be doing 60-mile road races. Or a Triathlete whose typical cycling event is an out-and-back 15 miler. Or a flatlander from Florida vs. a mountain-racer from Colorado.

3. each of us is different. We have different strengths and weaknesses. And different limiters. Each of us needs to focus our training primarily on improving our particular weaknesses.

4. each of us is different. We are at different points in our lives. Some ascending the fitness ladder. Some descending the fitness ladder. Fitness is an evolution. What "worked" for me last year, may not work this year and so I must make adjustments. However what worked for you last year may still be working for you, so no adjustments are warranted for you.

Having said that....I agree with the esteemed Mr. Stern that varying intensity during what is supposed to be your "base period" is useful, for me, because (having tried the cookie-cutter approach) I lose too much speed over the winter. Unfortunately, I have to do my intensity work "secretly", because my team coach who is very old-school would yell at me if he knew what I was doing.

Bob

P.S. By the way, did I mention that we all are different?

Bobby Lex said:

Random thoughts:

1. each of us is different. We all respond differently (physically and mentally) to training. There is no, one, cookie-cutter approach that works best for everyone.

Ideally, we should all be familiar with the various training theories out there, and then experiment with them to find out what works best for us individually.

2. each of us is different. A Cat 5 racer whose longest race is a 15-mile crit. will not need to do the same training mileage as a Cat. 3 who will be doing 60-mile road races. Or a Triathlete whose typical cycling event is an out-and-back 15 miler. Or a flatlander from Florida vs. a mountain-racer from Colorado.

3. each of us is different. We have different strengths and weaknesses. And different limiters. Each of us needs to focus our training primarily on improving our particular weaknesses.

4. each of us is different. We are at different points in our lives. Some ascending the fitness ladder. Some descending the fitness ladder. Fitness is an evolution. What "worked" for me last year, may not work this year and so I must make adjustments. However what worked for you last year may still be working for you, so no adjustments are warranted for you.

Having said that....I agree with the esteemed Mr. Stern that varying intensity during what is supposed to be your "base period" is useful, for me, because (having tried the cookie-cutter approach) I lose too much speed over the winter. Unfortunately, I have to do my intensity work "secretly", because my team coach who is very old-school would yell at me if he knew what I was doing.

Bob

P.S. By the way, did I mention that we all are different?

You're correct -- training needs to be tailored to the goals of the athlete and the time they have available, etc. however, the general physiological principles that apply will work -- they just have to be fitted to the individual.

Why don't you change your team coach, or petition the team to get a new coach? after all why would you want your team to do badly (or perhaps they all do secret intensity training!!!)

ric

SolarEnergy said:

In pool swimming, I would use MP20 (events ranging from 22sec to 15min) more than MP60. The latter suits cycling better than swimming.

Interesting. Some people believe that in order to raise the curve as a whole you need to work on MP6 or less. I don't have any experience either way, but I find the discussion of it interesting.

normZurawski said:

Interesting. Some people believe that in order to raise the curve as a whole you need to work on MP6 or less. I don't have any experience either way, but I find the discussion of it interesting.

Sorry Norm I had missed that one.

What do you mean by "raising the curve as a whole"?