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01 / Original postBalanceMarian · 25 May 2006 02 / This pagePosts 1–7Page 1 of 1 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #7Marian · 1 Jun 2006

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Cycling Equipment
Published
25 May 2006
Last activity
1 June 2006
Original author
Marian
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Bike fitPedal choiceTitanium frames

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  1. Original post
    Marian
    Archived post
    #1

    It's time for yet another one of my "foreigner in a strange land"
    questions. I'm not entirely sure I agree with what the wrench is
    saying, and I'd like to run it by people who know more and who know it
    in English before spending money.

    I crashed my bike about three weeks ago. As these things go it could
    have been a lot more serious than it was but I wasn't going
    particularly fast (22-23kph) and I had at least a few seconds warning
    before I hit the idiot who was riding diagonally against traffic.

    My front rim was bent beyond any thought of repair, the sidewall of my
    rear tire had a number of small tears, and my helmet needed replacing.

    I can't say I particularly noticed any difference in ride quality after
    the crash. However, a few days ago when I was out on a borrowed
    mountain bike I was riding handsfree and it suddenly occured to me that
    I hadn't gone handsfree since the crash.

    So, I tried it on my bike. And I couldn't. The bike kept wanting to
    veer to the right.
    Well, maybe that was the crosswind at the time.

    But when I went the other direction on the same road with the same wind
    the bike still wanted to veer to the right.
    Well maybe it's the bag I'm wearing, or the way my bum leg is acting up
    today or something.

    But no, the bike definitely wanted to be veering to the right, enough
    so that I discovered if I leaned waaaay over to the left I could kind
    of sort of go handsfree for a real short while.

    That was yesterday.

    After finishing the usual evening on the beach road I went to the shop
    and they fussed it about a bit, making it a whole lot better but still
    not good enough for going handsfree. The little bike shop fussed
    around a bit more when I came over to get the bag I'd left there before
    going riding and made it still better but not like before.

    So, I was back at the big bike shop again this evening, late enough
    that the wrench was non-busy enough to be able to really look at it.
    His verdict is that maybe I did something to the handlebars when I
    crashed or perhaps the (best I can tell he was referring to the
    headset) and if I replace those that might fix it, or not, cause there
    is always a chance that I actually did something to the frame.

    Now I like the wrench. He was my Chinese little brother long before
    the joke that the bike shop owner was my Chinese mom became the reality
    of her growling at me to do my homework and inviting me over to dinner
    at her house 2-3 times a week. I was teaching him useful English
    phrases like "why did the chicken cross the road" before I knew useful
    Chinese words like "pedal," or "spoke."

    Whether or not I like the wrench there is a lot of stuff that we don't
    see eye to eye on (and not just because I'm a lot taller than him).
    Putting a single new tire on the front and putting the old front on the
    rear, or only replacing the chain instead of replacing chain and gears
    at the same time would be a few examples. (Writing about this leads me
    to realize that I should probably be going over to the little shop and
    measuring the chain for wear to find out if it needs replacing.)

    Besides which, no matter how much I like him, there's something about
    him that, when it comes to paying money to replace something, I
    instinctively don't trust him. Especially when it comes to buying
    something expensive. I can be his friend and at the same time when
    repairwork comes down to taking out my wallet there is something that
    makes me stop and, at a minimum, get an opinion from at least one of
    his coworkers and maybe from the competition as well as asking on here.

    Obviously _something_ is wrong with my bike. I used to be able to ride
    kilometers at a time handsfree and even do stupid stuff like stand up
    on the pedals and coast to a near stop handsfree. I can still do this
    on other bikes so the problem isn't a physical one or a psychological
    one. Since steering when riding handsfree is done entirely by shifting
    weight I can compensate for the veer by leaning way to the left but
    this isn't a solution and the fact that I need to do that when
    attempting to ride handsfree could mean that I'm automatically
    compensating for steering problems when riding with my hands.

    If the problem is in the handlebars (which I was thinking of replacing
    with something more ergonomic anyways) how could it be detected? I
    don't particularly like the suggestion that I buy a new set, and test
    ride them, and if the problem goes away then that is where the problem
    was.

    If the problem is in the headset (best I can tell that's what he was
    talking about, it's one of those words that isn't in my Chinese lexicon
    and isn't in my Chinese/English dictionary) how could it best be
    detected? Again, I'm not real thrilled with the suggestion of
    replacement as a method of detection.

    If the problem is my frame or fork oughtn't I expect there to be some
    cosmetic damage or could I have managed to mung it up sufficiently
    enough to mess up the balance without scuffing the paint or decals?

    Since the front rim was replaced, and the new handbuilt front wheel
    (using old spokes and hub) seems to be nice and true, is it safe to say
    that the problem is not the wheel? Could such a problem be the wheel?

    Thanks,
    -M

    Report
  2. Vee
    Archived post
    #2

    I think your question is: "After a front-end impact, my bike pulls to
    the right - what gives?"

    If that is your question, the answer is: "Have your fork alignment
    checked by a good shop."

    -Vee

    Report
  3. Jan Lindstrom
    Archived post
    #3
    Marian said:

    But no, the bike definitely wanted to be veering to the right, enough
    so that I discovered if I leaned waaaay over to the left I could kind
    of sort of go handsfree for a real short while.

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/pull-side.html

    Jan

    Report
  4. Werehatrack
    Archived post
    #4

    On 25 May 2006 08:58:36 -0700, "Marian" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    I crashed my bike about three weeks ago. As these things go it could
    have been a lot more serious than it was but I wasn't going
    particularly fast (22-23kph) and I had at least a few seconds warning
    before I hit the idiot who was riding diagonally against traffic.

    My front rim was bent beyond any thought of repair, the sidewall of my
    rear tire had a number of small tears, and my helmet needed replacing.

    I can't say I particularly noticed any difference in ride quality after
    the crash. However, a few days ago when I was out on a borrowed
    mountain bike I was riding handsfree and it suddenly occured to me that
    I hadn't gone handsfree since the crash.

    So, I tried it on my bike. And I couldn't. The bike kept wanting to
    veer to the right.

    That may be a sign of a bent fork or a bent frame.

    Quoted message said:

    If the problem is in the handlebars (which I was thinking of replacing
    with something more ergonomic anyways) how could it be detected?

    It's not in the bars. Once your hands are off of them, they have no
    effect on steering unless something else is grabbing them and applying
    force. I've seen a much-too-short brake cable cause that effect but
    somehow I doubt that this is your problem.

    Quoted message said:

    I
    don't particularly like the suggestion that I buy a new set, and test
    ride them, and if the problem goes away then that is where the problem
    was.

    Nor do I.

    Quoted message said:

    If the problem is in the headset (best I can tell that's what he was
    talking about, it's one of those words that isn't in my Chinese lexicon
    and isn't in my Chinese/English dictionary) how could it best be
    detected? Again, I'm not real thrilled with the suggestion of
    replacement as a method of detection.

    Once again, i don't think this is the source of the problem. A bent
    steer tube could do it, but if there's no play in the headset, I think
    the problem must lie elsewhere.

    Quoted message said:

    If the problem is my frame or fork oughtn't I expect there to be some
    cosmetic damage or could I have managed to mung it up sufficiently
    enough to mess up the balance without scuffing the paint or decals?

    Usually, a bent frame will manifest itself via kinks in the tubes; in
    a frontal collision, I'd expect that to show up in the downtube just
    below the head tube, on the underside. It's much more likely that the
    fork is bent, though.Have someone hold the bike upright, and see if
    both wheels are in the same plane; looking from directly in front or
    directly from the rear, it is sometimes possible to spot a bent fork
    this way...but not always. Also, if you snap a chalk line 10m long
    (or more) on level pavement, put both tires on it to start, and roll
    the bike along it held vertical, if there is something bent, the rear
    wheel will track to one side of the line. Others will have better
    suggestions about how to spot this problem.

    Quoted message said:

    Since the front rim was replaced, and the new handbuilt front wheel
    (using old spokes and hub) seems to be nice and true, is it safe to say
    that the problem is not the wheel? Could such a problem be the wheel?

    The wheel could only contribute by being significantly dished, and
    that would be immediately apparent.
    --
    Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
    Some gardening required to reply via email.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

    Report
  5. Marian
    Archived post
    #5
    Werehatrack said:

    On 25 May 2006 08:58:36 -0700, "Marian" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    I crashed my bike about three weeks ago. As these things go it could
    have been a lot more serious than it was but I wasn't going
    particularly fast (22-23kph) and I had at least a few seconds warning
    before I hit the idiot who was riding diagonally against traffic.

    My front rim was bent beyond any thought of repair, the sidewall of my
    rear tire had a number of small tears, and my helmet needed replacing.

    I can't say I particularly noticed any difference in ride quality after
    the crash. However, a few days ago when I was out on a borrowed
    mountain bike I was riding handsfree and it suddenly occured to me that
    I hadn't gone handsfree since the crash.

    So, I tried it on my bike. And I couldn't. The bike kept wanting to
    veer to the right.

    That may be a sign of a bent fork or a bent frame.

    Ok.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    If the problem is in the handlebars (which I was thinking of replacing
    with something more ergonomic anyways) how could it be detected?

    It's not in the bars. Once your hands are off of them, they have no
    effect on steering unless something else is grabbing them and applying
    force. I've seen a much-too-short brake cable cause that effect but
    somehow I doubt that this is your problem.

    Adjusting, then readjusting, then readjusting again the bars and stem
    (the bars were discovered to be a bit off center) has helped
    enormously, enough so that I can handsfree, but I'm still veering a
    little.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I
    don't particularly like the suggestion that I buy a new set, and test
    ride them, and if the problem goes away then that is where the problem
    was.

    Nor do I.

    This particular suggestion on his part is stretching thin the
    credibility he previously earned by being really good at repairing
    things.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    If the problem is in the headset (best I can tell that's what he was
    talking about, it's one of those words that isn't in my Chinese lexicon
    and isn't in my Chinese/English dictionary) how could it best be
    detected? Again, I'm not real thrilled with the suggestion of
    replacement as a method of detection.

    Once again, i don't think this is the source of the problem. A bent
    steer tube could do it, but if there's no play in the headset, I think
    the problem must lie elsewhere.

    Quoted message said:

    If the problem is my frame or fork oughtn't I expect there to be some
    cosmetic damage or could I have managed to mung it up sufficiently
    enough to mess up the balance without scuffing the paint or decals?

    Usually, a bent frame will manifest itself via kinks in the tubes; in
    a frontal collision, I'd expect that to show up in the downtube just
    below the head tube, on the underside. It's much more likely that the
    fork is bent, though.Have someone hold the bike upright, and see if
    both wheels are in the same plane; looking from directly in front or
    directly from the rear, it is sometimes possible to spot a bent fork
    this way...but not always. Also, if you snap a chalk line 10m long
    (or more) on level pavement, put both tires on it to start, and roll
    the bike along it held vertical, if there is something bent, the rear
    wheel will track to one side of the line. Others will have better
    suggestions about how to spot this problem.

    Is the chalk line a bent frame test, a bent fork test, or both?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Since the front rim was replaced, and the new handbuilt front wheel
    (using old spokes and hub) seems to be nice and true, is it safe to say
    that the problem is not the wheel? Could such a problem be the wheel?

    The wheel could only contribute by being significantly dished, and
    that would be immediately apparent.

    Ok.

    -M

    Report
  6. Mark Hickey
    Archived post
    #6
    Marian said:

    Is the chalk line a bent frame test, a bent fork test, or both?

    The easiest frame alignment test is to run a string from the outside
    of the dropout (ideally, through the point the axle sits in), up
    around the head tube, and back to the other side of the dropout.

    Then measure the distance from the seat tube to the string on both
    sides. It should be within a mm or so of the same distance on both
    sides. If it's much more than that, it'll affect the handling of the
    bike.

    Keep in mind this isn't an all-inclusive test of all the frame
    dimensions, but will normally indicate if a crash has seriously
    tweaked a frame (since it measures the deflection that's most likely
    to occur in a typical crash).

    Mark Hickey
    Habanero Cycles
    http://www.habcycles.com
    Home of the $795 ti frame

    Report
  7. Marian
    Archived post
    #7
    Mark Hickey said:
    Marian said:

    Is the chalk line a bent frame test, a bent fork test, or both?

    The easiest frame alignment test is to run a string from the outside
    of the dropout (ideally, through the point the axle sits in), up
    around the head tube, and back to the other side of the dropout.

    Then measure the distance from the seat tube to the string on both
    sides. It should be within a mm or so of the same distance on both
    sides. If it's much more than that, it'll affect the handling of the
    bike.

    Keep in mind this isn't an all-inclusive test of all the frame
    dimensions, but will normally indicate if a crash has seriously
    tweaked a frame (since it measures the deflection that's most likely
    to occur in a typical crash).

    I did a modified version of the chalk line test using the tiles in the
    hallway of my apartment building. 50m with the rear wheel still on the
    line then I ran out of hall.

    Per werehatrack's suggestion I checked for kinks in the downtube and,
    while I was at it just checked the bike over in general and couldn't
    find any bumps, lumps, protrustions, or what have yous except for the
    big ol' ding on the top tube from the first week. (If you think
    falling over at a stoplight in clipless pedals is embarrassing, try
    doing it when the bike shop won't trust you with installing both toe
    clips and managing it with only _one_.)

    In a particularly random attack of randomness (they were explaining
    bike fit to someone else) the little bike shop measured my bike, then
    measured me, and then asked if my lower back hurt very often and poked
    me in the spot that feels sooooooo good when the masseur digs his
    elbows into my spine...so if they can find an already set up bike in
    the size they think I should be riding and get me to try it out and I
    like it I might be solving the balance problem in a complete different
    way.

    -M

    Report

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