Baking flour to make roux

Steve Wertz said:

Is it true you can bake flour until it gets brown and use it as a
base for a roux that doesn't require much simmering (and
stirring)?

I just had a jar of roux go bad in the fridge (!?), and I
remembered reading this at one time, in something or another. But
Google searches are proving useless using these keywords.

Seems like it would be pretty handy just to keep a jar of baked,
browned flour in the pantry or fridge and use it to make quick
sauces rather then keeping a pasty-wet version in the fridge.

Can anyone confirm this rumor, or did I dream this whole theory
up?

-sw

It works. You can make a dark roux with no fat in
it this way. Don't bake it, dry fry it. Much
quicker.

--
Reg

Reg said:

It works. You can make a dark roux with no fat in
it this way. Don't bake it, dry fry it. Much
quicker.

I figured I'd just going to put it in the oven, under my next
(non-smelly/non-wet) roast or casserole. I didn't think about the
fat issue. Makes sense, but I'm not worried about the (what I
consider) negligible amount of fat in the roux that will be used
to make a much larger batch of sauce.

Now you almost made me sorry you were the one to bite at the
j/nghlm ruse ;-)

So you can just add this browned flour to a soup or stew to
thicken it in the last few minutes without having to cook out the
floury taste/texture?

-sw

On 30 Mar 2006 05:54:18 +0100, Wayne Boatwright

wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com said:

Oven method...

Quoted message said:

Stove method...

Quoted message said:

Microwave method
Place 1 cup all-purpose flour in microwave-safe casserole dish. Microwave
on HIGH for 2 minutes. Stir well, being sure to stir in the flour from
along the edges and corners.

Thanks for the complete directions. I would never have figured
using the microwave, but I guess the water content of flour is
more than people realize (about 15% water, IIRC).

I'll be cooking some flour soon.

-sw

Steve Wertz said:

Thanks for the complete directions. I would never have figured
using the microwave, but I guess the water content of flour is
more than people realize (about 15% water, IIRC).

I'll be cooking some flour soon.

One thing to keep in mind is that the more the flour is cooked the less
thickening property it has. So if, for example, the standard ratio is
2 TB flour, 2 TB fat, 1 cup liquid for a sauce base, if you first cook
and brown the flour and then try to use it to thicken liquid you will
need more of the flour to thicken the same amount of liquid. Just
experiment with it. Personally, I think the only benefit from the
pre-browning of the flour is the color, which can be a nice thing. But
you still need the fat for taste, imho. -aem

Steve Wertz said:

Reg said:

It works. You can make a dark roux with no fat in
it this way. Don't bake it, dry fry it. Much
quicker.

I figured I'd just going to put it in the oven, under my next
(non-smelly/non-wet) roast or casserole. I didn't think about the
fat issue. Makes sense, but I'm not worried about the (what I
consider) negligible amount of fat in the roux that will be used
to make a much larger batch of sauce.

Now you almost made me sorry you were the one to bite at the
j/nghlm ruse ;-)

I was kidding, dude 🙂

Quoted message said:

So you can just add this browned flour to a soup or stew to
thicken it in the last few minutes without having to cook out the
floury taste/texture?

You still have cook out the flour taste. Can't avoid that.

It's not so much a timesaver, especially if you're like me
and use use the full on cajun-napalm method of making
roux. I normally make a dark roux in 10-15 minutes. This
won't shave much time off of that.

Paul Prudhomme included this technique in his "low-fat"
book. It's mainly a method of cutting down on the fat.

--
Reg

Steve Wertz said:

Is it true you can bake flour until it gets brown and use it as a
base for a roux that doesn't require much simmering (and
stirring)?

My mom has done this. She added toasted flour to fat in a skillet and
stirred to combine to make a roux. I never watched the process,
though.
--
modom

On Wed 29 Mar 2006 08:19:54p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Steve
Wertz?

Quoted message said:

Is it true you can bake flour until it gets brown and use it as a
base for a roux that doesn't require much simmering (and
stirring)?

I just had a jar of roux go bad in the fridge (!?), and I
remembered reading this at one time, in something or another. But
Google searches are proving useless using these keywords.

Seems like it would be pretty handy just to keep a jar of baked,
browned flour in the pantry or fridge and use it to make quick
sauces rather then keeping a pasty-wet version in the fridge.

Can anyone confirm this rumor, or did I dream this whole theory
up?

-sw

Steve, this is form Recipe Goldmine. It works...

Browned Flour (Fat-free roux)
Using a fat-free roux in the traditional recipes that call for a roux saves
a significant amount of calories and fat. Mix equal amounts of browned
flour and water before adding to recipes.

Oven method
2 to 3 C. white all-purpose flour
Large baking pan or iron pot

Spread flour evenly in pan. Bake in a 400 degree F oven for 30 minutes.
Stir well.

Continue cooking in 15-minute intervals, stirring well until flour is dark
brown. Mix a small amount of browned flour with a small amount of water to
check color.

When flour has reached desired color, let cool, then sift.

Stove method
Place 2 cups of all-purpose flour in a large skillet over high heat. Stir
constantly with a wire whisk. If flour begins to brown too fast, remove
skillet from heat, lower heat setting, then continue cooking and stirring.

Cook for about 20 minutes until the flour is the desired color. Remove
skillet from heat and continue stirring until flour is cooled, then sift.

Microwave method
Place 1 cup all-purpose flour in microwave-safe casserole dish. Microwave
on HIGH for 2 minutes. Stir well, being sure to stir in the flour from
along the edges and corners.

Repeat cooking at 2-minute intervals, stirring well until flour is desired
color. Let cool, then sift.

Browned flour can be stored for 2 to 3 months in airtight container in
refrigerator.

--
Wayne Boatwright @¿@¬
_____________________

On Wed 29 Mar 2006 09:02:49p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Steve
Wertz?

Quoted message said:

Reg said:

It works. You can make a dark roux with no fat in
it this way. Don't bake it, dry fry it. Much quicker.

I figured I'd just going to put it in the oven, under my next
(non-smelly/non-wet) roast or casserole. I didn't think about the
fat issue. Makes sense, but I'm not worried about the (what I
consider) negligible amount of fat in the roux that will be used
to make a much larger batch of sauce.

Now you almost made me sorry you were the one to bite at the
j/nghlm ruse ;-)

===============

Quoted message said:

So you can just add this browned flour to a soup or stew to
thicken it in the last few minutes without having to cook out the
floury taste/texture?

===============

Yes, the floury taste is gone by the time the flour has been browned.

--
Wayne Boatwright @¿@¬
_____________________

On Wed 29 Mar 2006 09:06:40p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Steve
Wertz?

Quoted message said:

On 30 Mar 2006 05:54:18 +0100, Wayne Boatwright

wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com said:

Oven method...

Quoted message said:

Stove method...

Quoted message said:

Microwave method
Place 1 cup all-purpose flour in microwave-safe casserole dish. Microwave
on HIGH for 2 minutes. Stir well, being sure to stir in the flour from
along the edges and corners.

Thanks for the complete directions. I would never have figured
using the microwave, but I guess the water content of flour is
more than people realize (about 15% water, IIRC).

I'll be cooking some flour soon.

You're welcome. I've used the oven method and the microwave method, and
both work well. Be careful with the timing if you have a hi-power
microwave. It seems to turn color all at once. A few seconds too long and
it's too late. The MW is still my favorite method.

--
Wayne Boatwright @¿@¬
_____________________

Reg said:

Steve Wertz wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Now you almost made me sorry you were the one to bite at the
j/nghlm ruse ;-)

I was kidding, dude 🙂

Uh-huh. OK.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So you can just add this browned flour to a soup or stew to
thicken it in the last few minutes without having to cook out the
floury taste/texture?

You still have cook out the flour taste. Can't avoid that.

I thought that was the purpose of pre-cooking it. Oh well.

Quoted message said:

Paul Prudhomme included this technique in his "low-fat"
book. It's mainly a method of cutting down on the fat.

Now I think I'm leaning back on towards the traditional roux.

-sw

Steve Wertz said:

Is it true you can bake flour until it gets brown and use it as a
base for a roux that doesn't require much simmering (and
stirring)?

I just had a jar of roux go bad in the fridge (!?), and I
remembered reading this at one time, in something or another. But
Google searches are proving useless using these keywords.

Seems like it would be pretty handy just to keep a jar of baked,
browned flour in the pantry or fridge and use it to make quick
sauces rather then keeping a pasty-wet version in the fridge.

Can anyone confirm this rumor, or did I dream this whole theory
up?

-sw

Yes, I have directions for this method in one of my cookbooks. I
don't have time to look it up today, but will be able to do so this
weekend. Fortunately, this book is one I brought along with me on my
travels. It is a Lee Bailey cookbook.

Christine

Steve Wertz said:

Is it true you can bake flour until it gets brown and use it as a
base for a roux that doesn't require much simmering (and
stirring)?

Yes, I happened to come across a recipe using "brown flour"just
yesterday. Brown = pan toasted, as it turned out.

Haven't tried the technique, though.

Quoted message said:

I just had a jar of roux go bad in the fridge (!?), and I
remembered reading this at one time, in something or another. But
Google searches are proving useless using these keywords.

Seems like it would be pretty handy just to keep a jar of baked,
browned flour in the pantry or fridge and use it to make quick
sauces rather then keeping a pasty-wet version in the fridge.

Can anyone confirm this rumor, or did I dream this whole theory
up?

-sw

jake said:

yesterday. Brown = pan toasted, as it turned out.

Haven't tried the technique, though.

That's how I was taught to make an espagnole sauce. Put dry flour in
a clean dry pan. Heat to med and move flour every minute or so to
toast. When browned, add fat and cook roux.

nb

notbob said:

jake said:

yesterday. Brown = pan toasted, as it turned out.

Haven't tried the technique, though.

That's how I was taught to make an espagnole sauce. Put dry flour in
a clean dry pan. Heat to med and move flour every minute or so to
toast. When browned, add fat and cook roux.

nb

I wish I remembered where I saw that recipe. It must have been in my
Amanda Hessel book. I got the impression she simply kept brown flour on
hand to use whenever necessary. She added it to a stew after browning
the meat. It sounded very practical Although it hardly saves time with a
stew, as a pantry item,. It would have so many uses that in the end, it
would be a time saver. But then the flavor of brown flour is also
different, which may be a reason to (not) use it. Depending on the
recipe and one's personal likes.

On Thu 30 Mar 2006 02:17:33p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it jake?

Quoted message said:

notbob said:

jake said:

yesterday. Brown = pan toasted, as it turned out.

Haven't tried the technique, though.

That's how I was taught to make an espagnole sauce. Put dry flour in
a clean dry pan. Heat to med and move flour every minute or so to
toast. When browned, add fat and cook roux.

nb

I wish I remembered where I saw that recipe. It must have been in my
Amanda Hessel book. I got the impression she simply kept brown flour on
hand to use whenever necessary. She added it to a stew after browning
the meat. It sounded very practical Although it hardly saves time with a
stew, as a pantry item,. It would have so many uses that in the end, it
would be a time saver. But then the flavor of brown flour is also
different, which may be a reason to (not) use it. Depending on the
recipe and one's personal likes.

Probably a poor choice for making white sauce. :-)

--
Wayne Boatwright @¿@¬
_____________________

Steve, I make roux with .66 parts olive oil to one part flour. It lasts a
long long time in the frig. Also, you can make roux as above in the
microwave almost immediately, one minute or so for white roux. The oil/flour
ratio should be a bit higher in the microwave. You can even make brown roux
in the microwave. You have to take it out frequently and stir. It is still
much easier than on top of the stove. Use a 3+/- power setting on the
microwave as the fat absorbs microwave energy much more than does water. You
can put milk and seasonings into the roux and make a bechemal sauce without
getting to the stove. I recently made a great dungeness crab newberg,
without getting to the cooktop.
This all from a lifelong microwave hater,
Kent

"Steve Wertz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Is it true you can bake flour until it gets brown and use it as a
base for a roux that doesn't require much simmering (and
stirring)?

I just had a jar of roux go bad in the fridge (!?), and I
remembered reading this at one time, in something or another. But
Google searches are proving useless using these keywords.

Seems like it would be pretty handy just to keep a jar of baked,
browned flour in the pantry or fridge and use it to make quick
sauces rather then keeping a pasty-wet version in the fridge.

Can anyone confirm this rumor, or did I dream this whole theory
up?

-sw

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 22:16:08 -0800, "Kent" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Steve, I make roux with .66 parts olive oil to one part flour. It lasts a
long long time in the frig. Also, you can make roux as above in the
microwave almost immediately, one minute or so for white roux. The oil/flour
ratio should be a bit higher in the microwave. You can even make brown roux
in the microwave. You have to take it out frequently and stir. It is still
much easier than on top of the stove.

I don't mind doing a traditional roux on the stove since I'm
usually doing other things, too. But next time I'm pressed for
burners and hands, I'll give your method a shot.

Thanks.

-sw

Steve Wertz said:

Is it true you can bake flour until it gets brown and use it as a
base for a roux that doesn't require much simmering (and
stirring)?

I just had a jar of roux go bad in the fridge (!?), and I
remembered reading this at one time, in something or another. But
Google searches are proving useless using these keywords.

Seems like it would be pretty handy just to keep a jar of baked,
browned flour in the pantry or fridge and use it to make quick
sauces rather then keeping a pasty-wet version in the fridge.

Can anyone confirm this rumor, or did I dream this whole theory
up?

-sw

Yep, I've got about 1/2 a cup of brown flour left from last time I
roasted a bunch for making gumbo. Make a bunch because it only saves
time second and subsequent time you use it. For the first batch, it's
just a much a PITA to make as normal dark roux.

I roast it in a pyrex pan in the oven. You have to stir it occasionally
or it will burn on the outside of the pile before it's roasted in the
middle. It is done when it looks like light cocoa. It will keep in a
jar in the pantry forever.

Best regards,
Bob

Wayne Boatwright said:

On Thu 30 Mar 2006 02:17:33p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it jake?

Quoted message said:

notbob said:

On 2006-03-30, jake <[email hidden]> wrote:

>yesterday. Brown = pan toasted, as it turned out.
>
>Haven't tried the technique, though.

That's how I was taught to make an espagnole sauce. Put dry flour in
a clean dry pan. Heat to med and move flour every minute or so to
toast. When browned, add fat and cook roux.

nb

I wish I remembered where I saw that recipe. It must have been in my
Amanda Hessel book. I got the impression she simply kept brown flour on
hand to use whenever necessary. She added it to a stew after browning
the meat. It sounded very practical Although it hardly saves time with a
stew, as a pantry item,. It would have so many uses that in the end, it
would be a time saver. But then the flavor of brown flour is also
different, which may be a reason to (not) use it. Depending on the
recipe and one's personal likes.

Probably a poor choice for making white sauce. :-)

Absolutelty. BTW, I looked at that book again. It's Amanda Hesser - The
cook and the Gardener. It's great. A cook/trained baker goes to live and
work at a chateau in France for a year and learns from the silent
gardener. She cooks from their garden. Lots of info, lots of seasonal
cooking, and very well-told stories about her life there.

For some reason my Dutch copy lists Marcella Hazan as the copyright
owner - I suspect by mistake.

Well, Wayne, you didn't ask for his info. But I coudlnt'resist the
opportunity to plug the book 🙂