bacteria in milk ?

Of course there are bacteria in pasturized milk. That's why you can't
keep the stuff at room temperature. There are bacteria on all raw
fruits and vegetables. Do you suggest they all be given up, and we
humans go back to eating only what comes out of a sterile tin can?

Boy, if it isn't the raw food freaks, it's the people afraid of
bacteria. You guys should get together and duke it out.

SBH

"Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

(...)

Quoted message said:

Do you suggest they all be given up, and we
humans go back to eating only what comes out of a sterile tin can?

When did humans eat only what comes out of a sterile tin can? The only
person to do this, AFAIK, was David the bubble boy (although the food makers
did not guarantee that the food was sterile).

Quoted message said:

Boy, if it isn't the raw food freaks, it's the people afraid of
bacteria. You guys should get together and duke it out.

They might break skin and cause and infection.

Quoted message said:

SBH

In article <[email hidden]>,

Jeff said:

"Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

(...)

Quoted message said:

Do you suggest they all be given up, and we
humans go back to eating only what comes out of a sterile tin can?

When did humans eat only what comes out of a sterile tin can? The only
person to do this, AFAIK, was David the bubble boy (although the food makers
did not guarantee that the food was sterile).

Quoted message said:

Boy, if it isn't the raw food freaks, it's the people afraid of
bacteria. You guys should get together and duke it out.

They might break skin and cause and infection.

We should be so lucky.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"I don't need someone to tell me that George W. Bush is a
deceitful, corrupt, clever and destructive man--that's pretty
clear on the face of it." -- Garrison Keillor

Careful! Harris could lose his job as a medic at the dairy production
facilty.

"George Lagergren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Topic: bacteria in milk ?

If I does a regular google search for: bacteria in milk , one

will

Quoted message said:

get several hits.
One will be from Dr. Mercola and another another from the "BBC News"
Service.

Reading both articles, I will understand that bacteria from cows
survive a mere 15 seconds of heat treatment. One will get a better

idea

Quoted message said:

of this bacteria problem.

George Lagergren said:

Topic: bacteria in milk ?

If I does a regular google search for: bacteria in milk , one will
get several hits.
One will be from Dr. Mercola and another another from the "BBC News"
Service.

Reading both articles, I will understand that bacteria from cows
survive a mere 15 seconds of heat treatment. One will get a better idea
of this bacteria problem.

If you are well fed and healthy, then your immune system will handle
most bacteria commonly found in the fresh foods that are available to
us, including what is in milk.

You know, we evolved millions of years in a world filled with bacteria.
As long as we are well fed and healthy, few of these bacteria are of
any danger to us.

TC

"Most" that is why the milk marketting boards blacklist and lay charges
against any farmer caught selling unpasteurized milk. People used to die
from the [censored]....but only once in a while so it's OK

"TC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

George Lagergren said:

Topic: bacteria in milk ?

If I does a regular google search for: bacteria in milk , one

will

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

get several hits.
One will be from Dr. Mercola and another another from the "BBC

News"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Service.

Reading both articles, I will understand that bacteria from cows
survive a mere 15 seconds of heat treatment. One will get a better

idea

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of this bacteria problem.

If you are well fed and healthy, then your immune system will handle
most bacteria commonly found in the fresh foods that are available to
us, including what is in milk.

You know, we evolved millions of years in a world filled with bacteria.
As long as we are well fed and healthy, few of these bacteria are of
any danger to us.

TC

Pizza Girl said:

"Most" that is why the milk marketting boards blacklist and lay charges
against any farmer caught selling unpasteurized milk. People used to die
from the [censored]....but only once in a while so it's OK

Here is a little history lesson for you.

For millenium, various cultural groups used the domesticated cow for
milk and meat, and they were very healthy doing that. Every one had a
cow in the back yard and milked it daily for nourishment, and they were
very healthy doing that. No diseases as long as their cows were
healthy, clean and well fed.

Then around the turn of the 20th century, in the eastern US, someone
got the idea of keeping a lot of cows, milking them daily and selling
the milk to the local populace. Being that these dairy farmers were
forever increasing the number of cows that they kept in close quarters
and being that these were typical Americans doing things half-assedly
and trying to wring as much profit as possible out of it, they got lax
in the cleanliness of the facilities. There resulted in repeated
outbreaks of disease from these filthy dairies.

When a method was found to pasteurize the milk produced in these filthy
facilities, they found that not only could they be lazy and cheap and
keep filthy dairies and still produce milk by pasteurization, they also
found that it actually extended the shelf-life of milk to previously
unknown lengths. Their profits grew by leaps and bounds. For them it
was a good thing.

Of course they did not pay any attention to any degradation of the
nutritional quality of the end product, they were making good profits.
The various govts then quickly followed and passed laws to ensure that
all milk be pasteurized. Very gallant of them, but also very
short-sighted.

What passes today for milk in the stores is but a mere shadow of what
real raw clean milk really is.

Real raw un-pasteurized milk and their by-products like butter, cream,
cheese, etc, from well-fed healthy cows is very very nutritious stuff.

TC

Nutritious? ...........Maybe.
More nutritious? ...........Definitely.
Necessary for humans? ...............Never
Causes harm to humans? ..............yes, only much less as long as you work
off the rich animal fats
Did we live longer? ................No the average life expectancy has
almost doubled.

"TC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Pizza Girl said:

"Most" that is why the milk marketting boards blacklist and lay charges
against any farmer caught selling unpasteurized milk. People used to die
from the [censored]....but only once in a while so it's OK

Here is a little history lesson for you.

For millenium, various cultural groups used the domesticated cow for
milk and meat, and they were very healthy doing that. Every one had a
cow in the back yard and milked it daily for nourishment, and they were
very healthy doing that. No diseases as long as their cows were
healthy, clean and well fed.

Then around the turn of the 20th century, in the eastern US, someone
got the idea of keeping a lot of cows, milking them daily and selling
the milk to the local populace. Being that these dairy farmers were
forever increasing the number of cows that they kept in close quarters
and being that these were typical Americans doing things half-assedly
and trying to wring as much profit as possible out of it, they got lax
in the cleanliness of the facilities. There resulted in repeated
outbreaks of disease from these filthy dairies.

When a method was found to pasteurize the milk produced in these filthy
facilities, they found that not only could they be lazy and cheap and
keep filthy dairies and still produce milk by pasteurization, they also
found that it actually extended the shelf-life of milk to previously
unknown lengths. Their profits grew by leaps and bounds. For them it
was a good thing.

Of course they did not pay any attention to any degradation of the
nutritional quality of the end product, they were making good profits.
The various govts then quickly followed and passed laws to ensure that
all milk be pasteurized. Very gallant of them, but also very
short-sighted.

What passes today for milk in the stores is but a mere shadow of what
real raw clean milk really is.

Real raw un-pasteurized milk and their by-products like butter, cream,
cheese, etc, from well-fed healthy cows is very very nutritious stuff.

TC

Pizza Girl said:

Nutritious? ...........Maybe.

No, not maybe. definitely.

Quoted message said:

More nutritious? ...........Definitely.

Absolutely.

Quoted message said:

Necessary for humans? ...............Never

Not necessary, but why not use such a good healthy food product?

Quoted message said:

Causes harm to humans? ..............yes, only much less as long as you work
off the rich animal fats

Nonsense. It is the nutritionally rich animal fats that are so healthy.
It's the nutritionally bereft refined cereals and sugars and the fake
manufactured fats that are causing most of the chronic illness today.
Lard, tallow, chicken fat, duck fat, from healthy animals is very
healthy stuff.

Quoted message said:

Did we live longer? ................No the average life expectancy has
almost doubled.

Actually, some people lived long healthy lives back then too. At least
as long as today. But the average age was, in fact, relatively short.
But live was hard then. If you were poor, there was no welfare. No
vouchers for food. If you were infirm, your family had to fend for you.
If the income earner died the entire family was in jeopardy.

If you were involved in warfare, really hard labour or lived in the
crowded filthy cities eating less than ideal foods you were very likely
to die young. Other things that killed us off quick were chronic
infections without todays anti-biotics, and that did more damage to
those eating too many low quality foods like cereals. In those days a
bad tooth could and often would kill you. Apparently there was a high
suicide rate amongst those with tooth infections. Imagine a tooth ache
that will only get worse and worse with no treatment options. A cut
could easily infect and kill you. Appendicitis could and would kill
you.

Medical care was poor and mostly unavailable.

Those eating a good diet with lots of good healthy animal source foods
were quite healthy and more resistant to infections than those eating
less healthy foods.

TC

Quoted message said:

"TC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Pizza Girl said:

"Most" that is why the milk marketting boards blacklist and lay charges
against any farmer caught selling unpasteurized milk. People used to die
from the [censored]....but only once in a while so it's OK

Here is a little history lesson for you.

For millenium, various cultural groups used the domesticated cow for
milk and meat, and they were very healthy doing that. Every one had a
cow in the back yard and milked it daily for nourishment, and they were
very healthy doing that. No diseases as long as their cows were
healthy, clean and well fed.

Then around the turn of the 20th century, in the eastern US, someone
got the idea of keeping a lot of cows, milking them daily and selling
the milk to the local populace. Being that these dairy farmers were
forever increasing the number of cows that they kept in close quarters
and being that these were typical Americans doing things half-assedly
and trying to wring as much profit as possible out of it, they got lax
in the cleanliness of the facilities. There resulted in repeated
outbreaks of disease from these filthy dairies.

When a method was found to pasteurize the milk produced in these filthy
facilities, they found that not only could they be lazy and cheap and
keep filthy dairies and still produce milk by pasteurization, they also
found that it actually extended the shelf-life of milk to previously
unknown lengths. Their profits grew by leaps and bounds. For them it
was a good thing.

Of course they did not pay any attention to any degradation of the
nutritional quality of the end product, they were making good profits.
The various govts then quickly followed and passed laws to ensure that
all milk be pasteurized. Very gallant of them, but also very
short-sighted.

What passes today for milk in the stores is but a mere shadow of what
real raw clean milk really is.

Real raw un-pasteurized milk and their by-products like butter, cream,
cheese, etc, from well-fed healthy cows is very very nutritious stuff.

TC

Pizza Girl said:

Careful! Harris could lose his job as a medic at the dairy production
facilty.

yeh, he finally landed that plum job of uterus stuffer after these many
years.
LOL!!

Quoted message said:

"George Lagergren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Topic: bacteria in milk ?

If I does a regular google search for: bacteria in milk , one

will

Quoted message said:

get several hits.
One will be from Dr. Mercola and another another from the "BBC News"
Service.

Reading both articles, I will understand that bacteria from cows
survive a mere 15 seconds of heat treatment. One will get a better

idea

Quoted message said:

of this bacteria problem.

George Lagergren said:

Topic: bacteria in milk ?

If I does a regular google search for: bacteria in milk , one will
get several hits.
One will be from Dr. Mercola and another another from the "BBC News"
Service.

Reading both articles, I will understand that bacteria from cows
survive a mere 15 seconds of heat treatment. One will get a better idea
of this bacteria problem.

The paratubercolosis virus whic is implicated in Crohn's Disease in
humans requires a temperature of 212 F for 35 MINUTES in order to kill
it.
Pasteurization in the dairy industry is a joke.

Over half the children died before age 10 from childhood diseases. I have
seen the gravestones in the cemetaries of some families in various
gravesites in Canada. This persisted until the early to mid 1900s

These statistics are not included in the average age expectancy. nor are
disease deaths.

"TC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Pizza Girl said:

Nutritious? ...........Maybe.

No, not maybe. definitely.

Quoted message said:

More nutritious? ...........Definitely.

Absolutely.

Quoted message said:

Necessary for humans? ...............Never

Not necessary, but why not use such a good healthy food product?

Quoted message said:

Causes harm to humans? ..............yes, only much less as long as you

work

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

off the rich animal fats

Nonsense. It is the nutritionally rich animal fats that are so healthy.
It's the nutritionally bereft refined cereals and sugars and the fake
manufactured fats that are causing most of the chronic illness today.
Lard, tallow, chicken fat, duck fat, from healthy animals is very
healthy stuff.

Quoted message said:

Did we live longer? ................No the average life expectancy has
almost doubled.

Actually, some people lived long healthy lives back then too. At least
as long as today. But the average age was, in fact, relatively short.
But live was hard then. If you were poor, there was no welfare. No
vouchers for food. If you were infirm, your family had to fend for you.
If the income earner died the entire family was in jeopardy.

If you were involved in warfare, really hard labour or lived in the
crowded filthy cities eating less than ideal foods you were very likely
to die young. Other things that killed us off quick were chronic
infections without todays anti-biotics, and that did more damage to
those eating too many low quality foods like cereals. In those days a
bad tooth could and often would kill you. Apparently there was a high
suicide rate amongst those with tooth infections. Imagine a tooth ache
that will only get worse and worse with no treatment options. A cut
could easily infect and kill you. Appendicitis could and would kill
you.

Medical care was poor and mostly unavailable.

Those eating a good diet with lots of good healthy animal source foods
were quite healthy and more resistant to infections than those eating
less healthy foods.

TC

Quoted message said:

"TC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Pizza Girl wrote:
> "Most" that is why the milk marketting boards blacklist and lay

charges

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> against any farmer caught selling unpasteurized milk. People used to

die

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> from the [censored]....but only once in a while so it's OK

Here is a little history lesson for you.

For millenium, various cultural groups used the domesticated cow for
milk and meat, and they were very healthy doing that. Every one had a
cow in the back yard and milked it daily for nourishment, and they

were

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

very healthy doing that. No diseases as long as their cows were
healthy, clean and well fed.

Then around the turn of the 20th century, in the eastern US, someone
got the idea of keeping a lot of cows, milking them daily and selling
the milk to the local populace. Being that these dairy farmers were
forever increasing the number of cows that they kept in close quarters
and being that these were typical Americans doing things half-assedly
and trying to wring as much profit as possible out of it, they got lax
in the cleanliness of the facilities. There resulted in repeated
outbreaks of disease from these filthy dairies.

When a method was found to pasteurize the milk produced in these

filthy

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

facilities, they found that not only could they be lazy and cheap and
keep filthy dairies and still produce milk by pasteurization, they

also

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

found that it actually extended the shelf-life of milk to previously
unknown lengths. Their profits grew by leaps and bounds. For them it
was a good thing.

Of course they did not pay any attention to any degradation of the
nutritional quality of the end product, they were making good profits.
The various govts then quickly followed and passed laws to ensure that
all milk be pasteurized. Very gallant of them, but also very
short-sighted.

What passes today for milk in the stores is but a mere shadow of what
real raw clean milk really is.

Real raw un-pasteurized milk and their by-products like butter, cream,
cheese, etc, from well-fed healthy cows is very very nutritious stuff.

TC

On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:30:52 -0400, Pizza Girl wrote in
<news:1117744019.11c9662de8700aedd589039610079050@teranews> on
misc.health.alternative,alt.health,sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

"TC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Real raw un-pasteurized milk and their by-products like butter, cream,
cheese, etc, from well-fed healthy cows is very very nutritious stuff.

Quoted message said:

Nutritious? ...........Maybe.

I take that as a "yes".

Quoted message said:

More nutritious? ...........Definitely.

Ok.

Quoted message said:

Necessary for humans? ...............Never

What single food is "necessary" for humans?

[apart from pure dark chocolate, of course 😉 ]

Quoted message said:

Causes harm to humans? ..............yes, only much less as long as you work
off the rich animal fats

Thus I take that as a "No".

Quoted message said:

Did we live longer? ................No the average life expectancy has
almost doubled.

Any other possible causes?
😉

X'Posted to: misc.health.alternative,alt.health,sci.med.nutrition

--
Enrico C
==================================

Topic: bacteria in milk ?

Quoted message said:

George Lagergren wrote:
If one does a regular google search for: bacteria in milk , one

will

Quoted message said:

get several hits.
One will be from Dr. Mercola and another another from the "BBC News"
Service.

Reading both articles, one will understand that bacteria from cows
survive a mere 15 seconds of heat treatment. One will get a better

idea

Quoted message said:

of this bacteria problem.

<[email hidden]> replied:

Quoted message said:

The paratubercolosis virus which is implicated in Crohn's Disease in
humans requires a temperature of 212 F for 35 MINUTES in order to kill
it.
Pasteurization in the dairy industry is a joke.

Well then, banmilk, real health nuts would be wise to avoid dairy (&
cow's milk) products.

There are more non-human than human cells in a human body. Bacteria
are not a problem, with very few exceptions. Even "harmful" bacteria
won't do anything to you unless the conditions are optimal for them,
which means being clean, avoiding excess biochemical activity (which
diets high in iron and unsaturated fatty acids, and low in
antioxidants, promote), and making sure you have essential nutrients in
your diet. There are other potential problems, like not getting enough
protein, not getting at least 10% simple sugar, and eating meat cuts
high in tryptophan, eating dairy with carrageenan added, cooking foods
with cholesterol while exposed to air, etc. Such stressors damage the
body and weaken what is called "the immune system" in one way or
another. If you are in excellent health, once in a while you'll likely
eat something with a large dose of some nasty pathogen, and you'll know
it, but after several trips to the john, it will all be over, and it
won't do any lasting harm.

It is not the marketing boards, it is the health departments. The largest
concern is not bacteria per sey that caused this but the tb that can be
transmitted by infected cows to humans via milk. Farmers used to have
grade a or grad b milk depending on the bacteria count and on the control
over sources of bacteria in the milking environment. Grade a farmers have
to have a very clean setup to handle the milk and cold storage facilities.
Grade b has dissappeared now, it required less of a control over bacteria
and it was used to produce cheese and other products and was pasteurized
at a higher level to ensure bacteria destruction that would damage grade a
products of whole milk etc. which are pasteurized at lower temperatures.
Farms were inspected for tb and milking setups and bacteria counts at the
dairy could turn a grade batch of milk from a given farm into grade be and
a reduced price to the farmer, or no price at all if levels were too high.
The manditory switch to grade a setups for all milk drove many smaller
grade b farmers out of milk production into other kinds of farming or not
at all. Farmers have every incentive to maintain cleanliness in their
setups. Arm chair farm history is about as usefull as arm chair space
exploration.

Quoted message said:

Here is a little history lesson for you.
For millenium, various cultural groups used the domesticated cow for
milk and meat, and they were very healthy doing that. Every one had a
cow in the back yard and milked it daily for nourishment, and they were
very healthy doing that. No diseases as long as their cows were
healthy, clean and well fed.

Then around the turn of the 20th century, in the eastern US, someone
got the idea of keeping a lot of cows, milking them daily and selling
the milk to the local populace. Being that these dairy farmers were
forever increasing the number of cows that they kept in close quarters
and being that these were typical Americans doing things half-assedly
and trying to wring as much profit as possible out of it, they got lax
in the cleanliness of the facilities. There resulted in repeated
outbreaks of disease from these filthy dairies.

When a method was found to pasteurize the milk produced in these filthy
facilities, they found that not only could they be lazy and cheap and
keep filthy dairies and still produce milk by pasteurization, they also
found that it actually extended the shelf-life of milk to previously
unknown lengths. Their profits grew by leaps and bounds. For them it
was a good thing.

Of course they did not pay any attention to any degradation of the
nutritional quality of the end product, they were making good profits.
The various govts then quickly followed and passed laws to ensure that
all milk be pasteurized. Very gallant of them, but also very
short-sighted.

What passes today for milk in the stores is but a mere shadow of what
real raw clean milk really is.

Real raw un-pasteurized milk and their by-products like butter, cream,
cheese, etc, from well-fed healthy cows is very very nutritious stuff.

TC

All that you've said may apply to a modern dairy, my comments about
lack of cleanliness were about dairies at the turn of the century when
pasteurization of milk was first adopted.

If you think that my history lesson was in-accurate, please tell on
which points exactly.

TC

Quoted message said:

It is not the marketing boards, it is the health departments. The largest
concern is not bacteria per sey that caused this but the tb that can be
transmitted by infected cows to humans via milk. Farmers used to have
grade a or grad b milk depending on the bacteria count and on the control
over sources of bacteria in the milking environment. Grade a farmers have
to have a very clean setup to handle the milk and cold storage facilities.
Grade b has dissappeared now, it required less of a control over bacteria
and it was used to produce cheese and other products and was pasteurized
at a higher level to ensure bacteria destruction that would damage grade a
products of whole milk etc. which are pasteurized at lower temperatures.
Farms were inspected for tb and milking setups and bacteria counts at the
dairy could turn a grade batch of milk from a given farm into grade be and
a reduced price to the farmer, or no price at all if levels were too high.
The manditory switch to grade a setups for all milk drove many smaller
grade b farmers out of milk production into other kinds of farming or not
at all. Farmers have every incentive to maintain cleanliness in their
setups. Arm chair farm history is about as usefull as arm chair space
exploration.

Quoted message said:

Here is a little history lesson for you.
For millenium, various cultural groups used the domesticated cow for
milk and meat, and they were very healthy doing that. Every one had a
cow in the back yard and milked it daily for nourishment, and they were
very healthy doing that. No diseases as long as their cows were
healthy, clean and well fed.

Then around the turn of the 20th century, in the eastern US, someone
got the idea of keeping a lot of cows, milking them daily and selling
the milk to the local populace. Being that these dairy farmers were
forever increasing the number of cows that they kept in close quarters
and being that these were typical Americans doing things half-assedly
and trying to wring as much profit as possible out of it, they got lax
in the cleanliness of the facilities. There resulted in repeated
outbreaks of disease from these filthy dairies.

When a method was found to pasteurize the milk produced in these filthy
facilities, they found that not only could they be lazy and cheap and
keep filthy dairies and still produce milk by pasteurization, they also
found that it actually extended the shelf-life of milk to previously
unknown lengths. Their profits grew by leaps and bounds. For them it
was a good thing.

Of course they did not pay any attention to any degradation of the
nutritional quality of the end product, they were making good profits.
The various govts then quickly followed and passed laws to ensure that
all milk be pasteurized. Very gallant of them, but also very
short-sighted.

What passes today for milk in the stores is but a mere shadow of what
real raw clean milk really is.

Real raw un-pasteurized milk and their by-products like butter, cream,
cheese, etc, from well-fed healthy cows is very very nutritious stuff.

TC

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The paratubercolosis virus whic is implicated in Crohn's Disease in

humans requires a temperature of 212 F for 35 MINUTES in order to kill
it. <<

Baloney. And it's not a virus, which tells us how much you know about
it.

"All that you've said may apply to a modern dairy, my comments about
lack of cleanliness were about dairies at the turn of the century when
pasteurization of milk was first adopted."

And the information presented you was the picture for the biggest part of
the 20th century and was in full swing right after WW II. All that fuss
and fluster about how money crazy farmers left behind clean practices when
they had cows only for their own use and adopted unclean habits when they
sold milk is empty hot air. Farmers dipped from the same milk containers
to provide milk for their families that held the milk that went to the
dairy. Milk pasteurization was adopted by public health departments not a
make up for bad farmers or desire for longer shelf life. Milk was
delivered to the door of homes within 24 hours or so of leaving the farm
and after a few hours of pasteurization.