Backpedal brake technique

"Steph Peters" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This summer I tried a backpedal brake for the first time, a hired bike in
Finland. To put it mildly, I was rubbish. I couldn't quite come to a
stop
with the brake, hopping off as the speed tailed off but the bike was still
moving, so I couldn't control exactly where I stopped. And then I
couldn't
get going again easily because the pedals were in the wrong orientation,
and
I had to pick the bike up to twiddle the pedals around to get the right
pedal to the top of the stroke. The net result was that I didn't feel
fully
in control, so I walked around the town where stopping might be needed and
only rode out in the countryside.

I'm about to spend two weeks in Germany, and having a bike to get around
would be really handy. As the purpose of the trip is a lace making course
which involves lots of sitting around exercise would be good too. I've
found a bike hire establishment a short train ride from where I'm staying,
but they only have back-pedal brake bikes. So your tips please on how to
improve my technique.
--
Steph Peters
Chorlton Wanderers Cycling Group
Monthly slow and easy rides from South Manchester
http://www.sandbenders.demon.co.uk/cycling/chwan.htm

If my memory serves me right, these bikes also have a hand brake to operate
the front wheel. I only ever used the back pedal brake for emergency stops
with spectacular results!
Fred

"Steph Peters" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm about to spend two weeks in Germany, and having a bike to get around
would be really handy. As the purpose of the trip is a lace making course
which involves lots of sitting around exercise would be good too. I've
found a bike hire establishment a short train ride from where I'm staying,
but they only have back-pedal brake bikes. So your tips please on how to
improve my technique.

Pick a patch with a slightly loose surface. Approach the patch with a bit of
speed, then pedal back as hard as you can, at the same time steering
slightly to one side. If you get it right, steering as the back wheel goes,
you'll get a massive broadie, very satisfying :-)

Sorry, haven't got any actually helpful advice - and obviously if you get
the above wrong, it might hurt.

S'pose being able to set off on either foot might be a useful thing to
practice though.

cheers,
clive

Steph Peters said:

This summer I tried a backpedal brake for the first time, a hired bike in
Finland. To put it mildly, I was rubbish. I couldn't quite come to a stop
with the brake, hopping off as the speed tailed off but the bike was still
moving, so I couldn't control exactly where I stopped.

Sounds like you were trying to brake with the cranks in a vertical
position, this isn't going to work with a coaster brake. Continue
pedalling forward until one of the pedals is at 10 o'clock, then back
pedal, transfer your weight onto the rear facing pedal for emergency
braking (the wheel will block).

Quoted message said:

And then I couldn't
get going again easily because the pedals were in the wrong orientation, and
I had to pick the bike up to twiddle the pedals around to get the right
pedal to the top of the stroke.

This suggests that you could improve your method to get going , see
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/starting.html

--
Membrane

Steph Peters said:

This summer I tried a backpedal brake for the first time, a hired bike in
Finland. To put it mildly, I was rubbish. I couldn't quite come to a stop
with the brake, hopping off as the speed tailed off but the bike was still
moving, so I couldn't control exactly where I stopped. And then I couldn't
get going again easily because the pedals were in the wrong orientation, and
I had to pick the bike up to twiddle the pedals around to get the right
pedal to the top of the stroke. The net result was that I didn't feel fully
in control, so I walked around the town where stopping might be needed and
only rode out in the countryside.

I'm about to spend two weeks in Germany, and having a bike to get around
would be really handy. As the purpose of the trip is a lace making course
which involves lots of sitting around exercise would be good too. I've
found a bike hire establishment a short train ride from where I'm staying,
but they only have back-pedal brake bikes. So your tips please on how to
improve my technique.

I have very little experience of back pedal brakes, but assuming its
kind of similar to fixed, I find this technique useful for starting:
Hold on the front brake, and push forwards on the handlebars (on the
hoods if its drop bars)
This should lift up the back wheel, then you can twiddle the pedals
round to get to them to right position for starting (obviously this is
easier if one foot is clipped in).

Craig

Craig Wallace said:

I have very little experience of back pedal brakes,

indeed. In 45 years of messing with bikes I think I've never encountered
a coaster braked bike with toeclips or clipless pedals 😉

Quoted message said:

but assuming its
kind of similar to fixed, I find this technique useful for starting:
Hold on the front brake, and push forwards on the handlebars (on the
hoods if its drop bars)

A rental with coasterbrake will be 17 kgs or more

Quoted message said:

This should lift up the back wheel, then you can twiddle the pedals
round to get to them to right position for starting (obviously this is
easier if one foot is clipped in).

German bikes with a coasterbrake will have a hand operated brake on the
frontwheel by law

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

Steph Peters said:

This summer I tried a backpedal brake for the first time, a hired bike in
Finland. To put it mildly, I was rubbish. I couldn't quite come to a stop
with the brake, hopping off as the speed tailed off but the bike was still
moving, so I couldn't control exactly where I stopped. And then I couldn't
get going again easily because the pedals were in the wrong orientation, and
I had to pick the bike up to twiddle the pedals around to get the right
pedal to the top of the stroke. The net result was that I didn't feel fully
in control, so I walked around the town where stopping might be needed and
only rode out in the countryside.

Quoted message said:

I'm about to spend two weeks in Germany, and having a bike to get around
would be really handy. As the purpose of the trip is a lace making course
which involves lots of sitting around exercise would be good too. I've
found a bike hire establishment a short train ride from where I'm staying,
but they only have back-pedal brake bikes. So your tips please on how to
improve my technique.

I grew up with coaster brakes and found it quite difficult to get used to
hand brakes 🙂
Advantage of a backpedal brake is that it leaves your hands free to
indicate and steer while you're braking.

Like handbrakes you need to get to know the bike and the brake. First you
freewheel. Then you gently start moving the pedals back. There usually is
a bit that does nothing first (chain slack etcetera), and then the brake
increasingly engages. How long the 'nothing' bit is, and how fast the
brake goes from 0 to full varies.
Once you start pedaling forward again there is that same bit of slack
before the gear engages.

Braking needs to be subtle: you start gently, press harder if you need to
slow down more, but not so hard that it all seizes up, and you
gradually release the pressure when the speed drops.

I don't really know how I do it because it is so automatic....
I think I tend to freewheel with one foot down and one up. With the slack
this means that braking is at 10 o'clock and forward gear at 2 o'clock.
I'm not really sure what I do just before I stop, because I seem to end up
with the pedals more at 3 & 6 o'clock so I can start easily. But if I get
it wrong: the slack in the chain is usually enough that one of the pedals
can move past vertical. You may have to start with your other foot though.
It helps if the saddle is not too high.

I know Pete found it quite tricky when we rented bikes in Amsterdam. Take
your time to practice before you really need to brake!

Good luck,
Roos

In message <[email hidden]>, Clive George
<[email hidden]> writes
Snip

Quoted message said:

Pick a patch with a slightly loose surface. Approach the patch with a
bit of speed, then pedal back as hard as you can, at the same time
steering slightly to one side. If you get it right, steering as the
back wheel goes, you'll get a massive broadie, very satisfying :-)

As a kid I lived a while in the US of A and had me a backpedal brake
bike. Your description of the technique brings it all back to me. You
have it exactly right except for the last bit, which is getting up off
the road and picking the gravel out of your knees.
--
geomannie

On 08 Nov 2007 08:04:57 GMT

Roos Eisma said:

I grew up with coaster brakes and found it quite difficult to get
used to hand brakes 🙂

Aha, so I'm not the only one in this parish:-)

Quoted message said:

Advantage of a backpedal brake is that it leaves your hands free to
indicate and steer while you're braking.

Very easy and natural for a kiddie learning balance onna bike
for the first time.

Quoted message said:

Braking needs to be subtle: you start gently, press harder if you
need to slow down more, but not so hard that it all seizes up, and
you gradually release the pressure when the speed drops.

If you're a scandinavian ten-year-old[1], your expectation is to lock
the wheel and perform a range of stunts, which come just as naturally
as pedalling forwards.

Quoted message said:

I don't really know how I do it because it is so automatic....

indeedie :-)

[1] I had my first bike in Sweden at age 10.

--
not me guv

Roos Eisma said:

I know Pete found it quite tricky when we rented bikes in Amsterdam. Take
your time to practice before you really need to brake!

Yup, it was a learning experience, but once I'd thought through the twin
problems of stopping /and/ coming down off the saddle as a single thing
I got rather less worried about ending up under a bus...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Clive George said:

"Steph Peters" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
Pick a patch with a slightly loose surface. Approach the patch with a bit of
speed, then pedal back as hard as you can, at the same time steering
slightly to one side. If you get it right, steering as the back wheel goes,
you'll get a massive broadie, very satisfying :-)

Isn't that the whole purpose of rear brakes 😉
I thought that the front brake was for actually stopping a bike (and
Sheldon seems to agree - http://sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html).

squeaker said:

Isn't that the whole purpose of rear brakes 😉
I thought that the front brake was for actually stopping a bike (and
Sheldon seems to agree - http://sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html).

It's pretty irrelevant on a bike that doesn't /have/ a front brake
though, and whatever Sheldon thinks there are lots of them to be found
in flattish places without a law requiring two brakes.
Hire from Amsterdam station and you can get a bike with a front brake,
but it'll cost you extra.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Steph Peters said:

This summer I tried a backpedal brake for the first time, a hired
bike in Finland. To put it mildly, I was rubbish. I couldn't quite
come to a stop with the brake, ......

Quoted message said:

I'm about to spend two weeks in Germany, and having a bike to get
around would be really handy. .. I've found a bike hire establishment a
short train ride
from where I'm staying, but they only have back-pedal brake bikes.
So your tips please on how to improve my technique.

I had a backpedal bike from a hotel in Germany a couple of years ago (*).
Whilst a hefty low-cross bar three speed, it did have a front brake as well
as back (and dynamo lights, front basket, etc..).

Technique seemed to be fine after a short time and a few practised stops.
It was quite easy to lock up the rear wheel if I pushed hard (and a locked
rear stops less quickly than one which is braking).

As others said, the rear pedal slightly above horizontal (10 or 2 oclock
depending on side), then apply some reverse pressure. The other thing I
learned was to not rush too much, decellerate gently into junctions, etc..
Both the weight of the bike (lots of momentum) and the brakes contributed to
this. Treat it as a fairly slow bike for getting around, not a fast
exercise machine.

Its possible that I adapted quickly because I was riding motorcycles at the
time. They have foot operated rear brakes, and some older motorbikes don't
stop very well.

(* I was at a conference, and the hotel's broucher said they had free loan
bikes as part of being "green". As it was >20min walk to conference venue or
a few mins on a bicycle across a pretty flat city, I decided that the
eccentric Englishman's image should be preserved )

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Nigel Cliffe said:

(* I was at a conference, and the hotel's broucher said they had free loan
bikes as part of being "green". As it was >20min walk to conference venue or
a few mins on a bicycle across a pretty flat city, I decided that the
eccentric Englishman's image should be preserved )

And hired a 4x4 at great expense which you parked illegally outside? ;-)

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Nigel Cliffe said:

(* I was at a conference, and the hotel's broucher said they had
free loan bikes as part of being "green". As it was >20min walk to
conference venue or a few mins on a bicycle across a pretty flat
city, I decided that the eccentric Englishman's image should be
preserved )

And hired a 4x4 at great expense which you parked illegally outside?
;-)

Unfortunately not.
But I did carbon offset my urban cycling by flying there, using a Merc* to
get from airport to hotel, hotel with air-con, etc..

(* OK, nearly all German taxis are Mercedes saloons )

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

In article <[email hidden]>, Steph Peters
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

back-pedal brake bikes. So your tips please on how to
improve my technique.

With the cranks horizontal, stand on the rear pedal. Swing your other
leg over as you come to a stop, and alight daintily. To start again
step on the front pedal, scoot and swing your other leg over.

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Steph Peters
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

back-pedal brake bikes. So your tips please on how to
improve my technique.

With the cranks horizontal, stand on the rear pedal. Swing your other
leg over as you come to a stop, and alight daintily. To start again
step on the front pedal, scoot and swing your other leg over.

For stopping I wouldn't recommend this procedure for a lady 😉
(On the assumption that the OP is one)
Fred

fred2 said:

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

With the cranks horizontal, stand on the rear pedal. Swing your other
leg over as you come to a stop, and alight daintily. To start again
step on the front pedal, scoot and swing your other leg over.

For stopping I wouldn't recommend this procedure for a lady 😉
(On the assumption that the OP is one)
Fred

Ummmmm, why not? I was taught the rolling dismount and stop by my mum...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

fred2 said:

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

With the cranks horizontal, stand on the rear pedal. Swing your other
leg over as you come to a stop, and alight daintily. To start again
step on the front pedal, scoot and swing your other leg over.

For stopping I wouldn't recommend this procedure for a lady 😉
(On the assumption that the OP is one)
Fred

Ummmmm, why not? I was taught the rolling dismount and stop by my mum...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

I have visions of getting your legs in a twist when you are stepping
through the bike.
Fred

fred2 said:

I have visions of getting your legs in a twist when you are stepping
through the bike.

Errrrr, righto....

I take it you've never actually done a rolling [dis]mount? We're in the
dexterity equivalent of "not exactly Rocket Science" here.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/