Back to basics.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by tomUK [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Currently I'm at about 322TSS for the week. My one reason why I'm wanting to avoid L3 is - believe it or not - the heat. I was out on the road last night and did 75 mins at .72 IF and that felt like enough. It was 105 degrees on the road. Trying to do level 4 in the heat is a challenge in itself. I'm unable to ride in the morning as it is too dark then.

still, I was just wondering if substituting L2 for L3 would work so long as the TSS stays the same in total?

Thanks for the reply 🙂

You're out in Texas, right? I'm in the same boat with the Sacramento Valley heat that's up around 100F most evenings when I get home.

For L4, I'd do it indoors on the trainer. Air conditioning and a medium sized fan is your friend when it's 105F out.... but I haven't done a pure L4 session this year. For L3 in the heat I find it easier to deal with if I start slower and ramp up the intensity to the desired place over 10 minutes or so. It seems much less of a shock to the system. The current generation of insulated water bottles help too. 1 regular bottle and 1 insulated makes a world of difference. When I make my bottles (Hammer Perpetuem) I use 24oz bottles, 1/3 full of water, mix in the powder and then add ice cubes until full then I put both in the freezer until almost frozen solid. The regular bottle will thaw during the first hour and is provides a nice cold drink. The insulated bottle still has ice cubes in it after 90 minutes.

If you're on fairly smooth roads then try riding without mitts and putting your hands in a position where the catch the wind a bit. If you're in the drops the just relax the grip with the first couple of fingers and open then up a bit and let the wind in. Losen the shoes a tiny bit - the slight bit of extra "freedom" will let your feet cool better. Pearl Izumi do a good jersey that's great for the heat - it's their P.R.O. climbers jersey and has extra ventilation under the arms and has thinner fabric and small perforations.

I sure am in texas and it appears not to be cooling down right now. #brutal.

Thanks for the advice. I've not tried the insulated bottles - I thought they were a marketing gimmic but now you have rated them I will get one.

I find doing intervals on a trainer extremely boring. Watching a movie or something doesn't seem to work for me.

Its all rather frustrating. I've been at this fitness game for 16 years, consistantly. At 148lbs with 3% bodyfat, I think that speaks for itself. Then I go a look at Juan Antonio power meter file for stage *14*. He holds 276 ave pwr for 5hr 37 mins. I can bearly hold 210W for 20 minutes. that's humbling, or frustrating!

I'd get the bodyfat estimate remeasured as 3% isn't necessarily good, it sounds very very low and may not be the best thing for general health or althletic performance. I remember the wee Scottish climber Robert Millar saying that if he got below 5% then performance and recovery/health dropped off significantly and he was a small lad to start off with.

On the subject of heat - I recently stopped wearing my Oakley shades as it's a pain in the backside to stop every 20 minutes to clean them because if becomes next to impossible to see out of them as the sweat crystalizes on the inside of the lens. The extra breeze around my eyes and bottom of my forehead feels great despite the fact it took my eyes a little while to get used to the hair drier like blast of hot air they were now getting.

Intervals on the trainer are boring - that's why you go really fecking hard.

Pain and suffing > boredom

Thanks for the advice, mate.

I'm sure the body fat is right. I use electrical impedance scales and get tested with calipers. Aside from DXA I think its about as accurate as you can get. Does this mean I can eat more curry? 🙂

Believe it or not, I don't sweat much at all. I often get half way up a climb with people pouring with sweat, they look over at me and ask when I'm going to start pedaling. I'm not sure if the heat dissipates well or what but I'm never wet, not damn when i get home (no puns, please).

I wonder if beer drinking on the trainer would help the boredom.

3% body fat, the plot thickens....

The heat just plain sucks for training. Go out in the early morning if you can.

As for the fact that you can only hold 210w for 20mins, if you want to improve you just have to train more. It's hard with work etc, but if you can double your training load (to say 650/wk) you will see a big increase in fitness.

That kind of takes me back to my question; does it matter *how* you accumilate those 350 or 650TSS points? Assuming you are doing intervals (2x20, or whatever) twice a week then does it matter if the rest of the time is spent in L2 or L3? There is obviously a 'crossing point' but is there some sort of guide or ideal laid out?

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by swampy1970 [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

You have an FTP of 220watts and in poor shape yet mystically ride off into the distance at 31 mph on the flat and then ride up hills dropping everyone in sight with sustained efforts of 400+ watts with amazing regularity.

I'm only a mere peon as I find 5 minutes of ~375 to 380 watts pretty darned hard in my fairly untrained state. I bow down to your other-worldly ProTour Godlike self.

When I was young, 30-45, my FTP was well over 300w. I could hold 220w for all day everyday. At 60KG and 5+w/kg FTP I could drop a lot of people. I could ride over 30mph for the needed distance. That is my concept of good shape. I got that way by training well over 30 hours a week.

I am old. About 4kg overweight. I seem to be unable to build muscle, but I try. I can still hit 400+w. (I did a short day yesterday 40 miles. I held my power at 300-400w for the full length of all the climbs. I chased a couple people for several miles at 330-350w.) I can still hit 30+, but I only have a 50/16 high gear so I would need to change cogs.

The guys who shave their legs are in much better shape than I am.

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If you are a "mere peon," you are that way because of your motivation. not because others are better than you.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by An old Guy [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

When I was young, 30-45, my FTP was well over 300w. I could hold 220w for all day everyday. At 60KG and 5+w/kg FTP I could drop a lot of people. I could ride over 30mph for the needed distance. That is my concept of good shape. I got that way by training well over 30 hours a week.

I am old. About 4kg overweight. I seem to be unable to build muscle, but I try. I can still hit 400+w. (I did a short day yesterday 40 miles. I held my power at 300-400w for the full length of all the climbs. I chased a couple people for several miles at 330-350w.) I can still hit 30+, but I only have a 50/16 high gear so I would need to change cogs.

The guys who shave their legs are in much better shape than I am.

---

If you are a "mere peon," you are that way because of your motivation. not because others are better than you.

Thats awesome I wish gearing was the only thing slowing me down. You must be super-duper

Quote: does it matter *how* you accumilate those 350 or 650TSS points?

I think you know that that's a dumb question. Of course it does. The absolute best thing would be to get a coach and do structured training. Also, I'm starting to wonder why you keep asking about L2. I think I've said about four times now that L2 isn't going to help as much as L3. If you find L3 too hard then I'm thinking your problem is at least partly motivation.

If it's motivation you need, then you need (1) a goal that really excites you like a race or hill climb or something like that, as well as (2) a pre-ride coffee, and/or (3) ... whatever else gets your juices flowing.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by chikinlegs [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Thats awesome I wish gearing was the only thing slowing me down. You must be super-duper

No no chikinlegs. It's the gearing PLUS shaving your legs! (In OG's defense I too have noticed that guys who shave their legs are really fast. Maybe I should give it a try.)

thanks again.

re: motivation. Maybe some of that cocaine candy Gilberto Simoni's aunt sent him from Peru?

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by tomUK [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

That kind of takes me back to my question; does it matter *how* you accumilate those 350 or 650TSS points? Assuming you are doing intervals (2x20, or whatever) twice a week then does it matter if the rest of the time is spent in L2 or L3? There is obviously a 'crossing point' but is there some sort of guide or ideal laid out?

My unqualified 2c : CTL composition does matter, ie how you accumulate TSS, the less time you have to train the more productive 'Sweet Spot Training' will be, for most time crunched cyclists (less that 8 hours per week) that will be FTP sweet-spot training ie high L3 - low L4. Like Lanierb said for you more will definitaly be better. My experience was that I did not progress well until I went from 3 days per week to 5-6, which I beleive is a common experience. My FTP progressively increased on a winter long diet of 1x60 @ 90% FTP on an indoor trainer which for me is quite challenging physically and mentally. My CTL average was quite low but the focused composition increased my FTP quite nicely. I can't focus on movies either but a TV going randomly is at least a distraction, you need fans too. And drink. Carbo drink that is, not beer!