bachetta front brake inquiry

Hi - I understand Bachetta makes their own dual caliper front brake (I haven't seen it) which has
the cable run in from the left bottom. I assume this is to avoid chain interference. Has anyone
tried putting a standard brake on the front? Why don't they just use a fork with canti bosses so you
can use a reversible V-brake like the Odyssey or the Cane Creek? Are there any alternatives? This
special brake seems like a kludge.

Regards Chris

I've mounted studs on the rear of the fork for my homebuild. The price on Cane Creek's is enough to
scare most people off - the odyssey looks OK though - I wonder where I can get hold of one east of
the pond for my wife's suspension fork.

Pardon my french - Oxford Adv. Learners Dictionary doesn't know "kludge" - too British maybe?

Torben

"Chris Crawford" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi - I understand Bachetta makes their own dual caliper front brake (I haven't seen it) which has
the cable run in from the left bottom. I assume this is to avoid chain interference. Has anyone
tried putting a standard brake on the front? Why don't they just use a fork with canti bosses so
you can use a reversible V-brake like the Odyssey or the Cane Creek? Are there any alternatives?
This special brake seems like a kludge.

Regards Chris

I've mounted studs on the rear of the fork for my homebuild. The price on Cane Creek's is enough to
scare most people off - the odyssey looks OK though - I wonder where I can get hold of one east of
the pond for my wife's suspension fork.

Pardon my french - Oxford Adv. Learners Dictionary doesn't know "kludge" - too British maybe?

Torben

"Chris Crawford" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi - I understand Bachetta makes their own dual caliper front brake (I haven't seen it) which has
the cable run in from the left bottom. I assume this is to avoid chain interference. Has anyone
tried putting a standard brake on the front? Why don't they just use a fork with canti bosses so
you can use a reversible V-brake like the Odyssey or the Cane Creek? Are there any alternatives?
This special brake seems like a kludge.

Regards Chris

in article [email hidden], Chris Crawford at [email hidden]
wrote on 1/17/03 12:02 AM:

Quoted message said:

Hi - I understand Bachetta makes their own dual caliper front brake (I haven't seen it) which has
the cable run in from the left bottom. I assume this is to avoid chain interference. Has anyone
tried putting a standard brake on the front? Why don't they just use a fork with canti bosses so
you can use a reversible V-brake like the Odyssey or the Cane Creek? Are there any alternatives?
This special brake seems like a kludge.

Here are a couple snaps of the front brake on my Strada. I've had no complaints about the front
brake at all, it has plenty of stopping power & control. All the complaints I've heard have been
with the rear brake. My rear brake was pretty mushy for a while, but my LBS (who actually doesn't
carry bents at all) helped me get it adjusted properly, now it's great.

I don't know about alternatives on the front, having no complaints I never considered it.

enteract.comIMG 0198.jpgOpen ↗ enteract.comIMG 0199.jpgOpen ↗

-Carl

Chris Crawford <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hi - I understand Bachetta makes their own dual caliper front brake (I haven't seen it) which has
the cable run in from the left bottom. I assume this is to avoid chain interference. Has anyone
tried putting a standard brake on the front? Why don't they just use a fork with canti bosses so
you can use a reversible V-brake like the Odyssey or the Cane Creek? Are there any alternatives?
This special brake seems like a kludge.

Regards Chris

Any time I see someone ask "Why?" I have to assume the answer is "Money". It would be damn near
impossible to have aluminum or carbon fiber forks made for 650C wheels *and* cantilever brakes for
any reasonable price. The Giro, with a 20" front wheel, uses a V-brake on the front.

BTW: I think the caliper Bachetta uses is a modified Alhonga, similar to this:
tinyurl.com4kd1Open ↗

Jeff

in article [email hidden], Chris Crawford at [email hidden]
wrote on 1/17/03 12:02 AM:

Quoted message said:

Hi - I understand Bachetta makes their own dual caliper front brake (I haven't seen it) which has
the cable run in from the left bottom. I assume this is to avoid chain interference. Has anyone
tried putting a standard brake on the front? Why don't they just use a fork with canti bosses so
you can use a reversible V-brake like the Odyssey or the Cane Creek? Are there any alternatives?
This special brake seems like a kludge.

Here are a couple snaps of the front brake on my Strada. I've had no complaints about the front
brake at all, it has plenty of stopping power & control. All the complaints I've heard have been
with the rear brake. My rear brake was pretty mushy for a while, but my LBS (who actually doesn't
carry bents at all) helped me get it adjusted properly, now it's great.

I don't know about alternatives on the front, having no complaints I never considered it.

enteract.comIMG 0198.jpgOpen ↗ enteract.comIMG 0199.jpgOpen ↗

-Carl

Chris Crawford <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hi - I understand Bachetta makes their own dual caliper front brake (I haven't seen it) which has
the cable run in from the left bottom. I assume this is to avoid chain interference. Has anyone
tried putting a standard brake on the front? Why don't they just use a fork with canti bosses so
you can use a reversible V-brake like the Odyssey or the Cane Creek? Are there any alternatives?
This special brake seems like a kludge.

Regards Chris

Any time I see someone ask "Why?" I have to assume the answer is "Money". It would be damn near
impossible to have aluminum or carbon fiber forks made for 650C wheels *and* cantilever brakes for
any reasonable price. The Giro, with a 20" front wheel, uses a V-brake on the front.

BTW: I think the caliper Bachetta uses is a modified Alhonga, similar to this:
tinyurl.com4kd1Open ↗

Jeff

I have the Strada with the below mentioned brake, it works just fine. The reason for the custom
made brake is it solves clearance problems. Most of us Bachetta owners think the back brake is
mushy with the travel agent booster on it. Some People even replace it, I just use it because it
still stops the bike.

"Chris Crawford" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi - I understand Bachetta makes their own dual caliper front brake (I haven't seen it) which has
the cable run in from the left bottom. I assume this is to avoid chain interference. Has anyone
tried putting a standard brake on the front? Why don't they just use a fork with canti bosses so
you can use a reversible V-brake like the Odyssey or the Cane Creek? Are there any alternatives?
This special brake seems like a kludge.

Regards Chris

I have the Strada with the below mentioned brake, it works just fine. The reason for the custom
made brake is it solves clearance problems. Most of us Bachetta owners think the back brake is
mushy with the travel agent booster on it. Some People even replace it, I just use it because it
still stops the bike.

"Chris Crawford" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi - I understand Bachetta makes their own dual caliper front brake (I haven't seen it) which has
the cable run in from the left bottom. I assume this is to avoid chain interference. Has anyone
tried putting a standard brake on the front? Why don't they just use a fork with canti bosses so
you can use a reversible V-brake like the Odyssey or the Cane Creek? Are there any alternatives?
This special brake seems like a kludge.

Regards Chris

Kludge is something thrown together, 'jury rigged', a baling wire and spit solution. "Torben Scheel"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've mounted studs on the rear of the fork for my homebuild. The price on Cane Creek's is enough
to scare most people off - the odyssey looks OK though - I wonder where I can get hold of one east
of the pond for my

wife's

Quoted message said:

suspension fork.

Pardon my french - Oxford Adv. Learners Dictionary doesn't know "kludge" - too British maybe?

Torben

"Chris Crawford" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi - I understand Bachetta makes their own dual caliper front brake (I haven't seen it) which
has the cable run in from the left bottom. I assume this is to avoid chain interference. Has
anyone tried putting a standard brake on the front? Why don't they just use a fork with canti
bosses so you can use a reversible V-brake like the Odyssey or the Cane Creek? Are there any
alternatives? This special brake seems like a kludge.

Regards Chris

Torben Scheel said:

Pardon my french - Oxford Adv. Learners Dictionary doesn't know "kludge" - too British maybe?

A kludge (pronounced klooge) is a makeshift solution, usually workable but not fully or properly
engineered, with a small dose of Rube Goldberg thrown in. (R.G. being known for overly-elaborate
devices to perform simple tasks.)

Kludge is something thrown together, 'jury rigged', a baling wire and spit solution. "Torben Scheel"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've mounted studs on the rear of the fork for my homebuild. The price on Cane Creek's is enough
to scare most people off - the odyssey looks OK though - I wonder where I can get hold of one east
of the pond for my

wife's

Quoted message said:

suspension fork.

Pardon my french - Oxford Adv. Learners Dictionary doesn't know "kludge" - too British maybe?

Torben

"Chris Crawford" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi - I understand Bachetta makes their own dual caliper front brake (I haven't seen it) which
has the cable run in from the left bottom. I assume this is to avoid chain interference. Has
anyone tried putting a standard brake on the front? Why don't they just use a fork with canti
bosses so you can use a reversible V-brake like the Odyssey or the Cane Creek? Are there any
alternatives? This special brake seems like a kludge.

Regards Chris

Torben Scheel said:

Pardon my french - Oxford Adv. Learners Dictionary doesn't know "kludge" - too British maybe?

A kludge (pronounced klooge) is a makeshift solution, usually workable but not fully or properly
engineered, with a small dose of Rube Goldberg thrown in. (R.G. being known for overly-elaborate
devices to perform simple tasks.)

Kludge? A little more complicated than previously hinted...

!--------------------------------------------------------------------!
:kludge: 1. /klooj/ n. Incorrect (though regrettably common) spelling of {kluge} (US). These two
words have been confused in American usage since the early 1960s, and widely confounded in Great
Britain since the end of World War II. 2. [TMRC] A {crock} that works. (A long-ago "Datamation"
article by Jackson Granholme similarly said: "An ill-assorted collection of poorly matching parts,
forming a distressing whole."😉 3. v. To use a kludge to get around a problem. "I've kludged around
it for now, but I'll fix it up properly later."

This word appears to have derived from Scots 'kludge' or 'kludgie' for a common toilet, via British
military slang. It apparently became confused with U.S. {kluge} during or after World War II; some
Britons from that era use both words in definably different ways, but {kluge} is now uncommon in
Great Britain. 'Kludge' in Commonwealth hackish differs in meaning from 'kluge' in that it lacks the
positive senses; a kludge is something no Commonwealth hacker wants to be associated too closely
with. Also, 'kludge' is more widely known in British mainstream slang than 'kluge' is in the U.S.

:kluge: /klooj/ [from the German 'klug', clever; poss. related to Polish 'klucz' (a key, a hint, a
main point)] 1. n. A Rube Goldberg (or Heath Robinson) device, whether in hardware or software. 2.
n. A clever programming trick intended to solve a particular nasty case in an expedient, if not
clear, manner. Often used to repair bugs. Often involves {ad-hockery} and verges on being a {crock}.
3. n. Something that works for the wrong reason. 4. vt. To insert a kluge into a program. "I've
kluged this routine to get around that weird bug, but there's probably a better way." 5. [WPI]
n. A feature that is implemented in a {rude} manner.

Nowadays this term is often encountered in the variant spelling 'kludge'. Reports from {old fart}s
are consistent that 'kluge' was the original spelling, reported around computers as far back as the
mid-1950s and, at that time, used exclusively of _hardware_ kluges. In 1947, the "New York Folklore
Quarterly" reported a classic shaggy-dog story 'Murgatroyd the Kluge Maker' then current in the
Armed Forces, in which a 'kluge' was a complex and puzzling artifact with a trivial function. Other
sources report that 'kluge' was common Navy slang in the WWII era for any piece of electronics that
worked well on shore but consistently failed at sea.

However, there is reason to believe this slang use may be a decade older. Several respondents have
connected it to the brand name of a device called a "Kluge paper feeder", an adjunct to mechanical
printing presses. Legend has it that the Kluge feeder was designed before small, cheap electric
motors and control electronics; it relied on a fiendishly complex assortment of cams, belts, and
linkages to both power and synchronize all its operations from one motive driveshaft. It was
accordingly temperamental, subject to frequent breakdowns, and devilishly difficult to repair -- but
oh, so clever! People who tell this story also aver that 'Kluge' was the name of a design engineer.

There is in fact a Brandtjen & Kluge Inc., an old family business that manufactures printing
equipment - interestingly, their name is pronounced /kloo'gee/! Henry Brandtjen, president of the
firm, told me (ESR, 1994) that his company was co-founded by his father and an engineer named Kluge
/kloo'gee/, who built and co-designed the original Kluge automatic feeder in 1919. Mr. Brandtjen
claims, however, that this was a _simple_ device (with only four cams); he says he has no idea how
the myth of its complexity took hold. Other correspondents differ with Mr. Brandtjen's history of
the device and his allegation that it was a simple rather than complex one, but agree that the Kluge
automatic feeder was the most likely source of the folklore.

{TMRC} and the MIT hacker culture of the early '60s seems to have developed in a milieu that
remembered and still used some WWII military slang (see also {foobar}). It seems likely that 'kluge'
came to MIT via alumni of the many military electronics projects that had been located in Cambridge
(many in MIT's venerable Building 20, in which {TMRC} is also located) during the war.

The variant 'kludge' was apparently popularized by the {Datamation} article mentioned above; it was
titled "How to Design a Kludge" (February 1962, pp. 30, 31). This spelling was probably imported
from Great Britain, where {kludge} has an independent history (though this fact was largely unknown
to hackers on either side of the Atlantic before a mid-1993 debate in the Usenet group
alt.folklore.computers over the First and Second Edition versions of this entry; everybody used to
think {kludge} was just a mutation of {kluge}). It now appears that the British, having forgotten
the etymology of their own 'kludge' when 'kluge' crossed the Atlantic, repaid the U.S. by lobbing
the 'kludge' orthography in the other direction and confusing their American cousins' spelling!

The result of this history is a tangle. Many younger U.S. hackers pronounce the word as /klooj/ but
spell it, incorrectly for its meaning and pronunciation, as 'kludge'. (Phonetically, consider huge,
refuge, centrifuge, and deluge as opposed to sludge, judge, budge, and fudge. Whatever its failings
in other areas, English spelling is perfectly consistent about this distinction.) British hackers
mostly learned /kluhj/ orally, use it in a restricted negative sense and are at least consistent.
European hackers have mostly learned the word from written American sources and tend to pronounce it
/kluhj/ but use the wider American meaning!

Some observers consider this mess appropriate in view of the word's meaning.

!--------------------------------------------------------------------!

from "The Jargon File", v 4.31. Now we all know :-)

Dave Larrington - legslarry.crosswinds.netlegslarry.crosswinds.netOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

Kludge? A little more complicated than previously hinted...

!--------------------------------------------------------------------!
:kludge: 1. /klooj/ n. Incorrect (though regrettably common) spelling of {kluge} (US). These two
words have been confused in American usage since the early 1960s, and widely confounded in Great
Britain since the end of World War II. 2. [TMRC] A {crock} that works. (A long-ago "Datamation"
article by Jackson Granholme similarly said: "An ill-assorted collection of poorly matching parts,
forming a distressing whole."😉 3. v. To use a kludge to get around a problem. "I've kludged around
it for now, but I'll fix it up properly later."

This word appears to have derived from Scots 'kludge' or 'kludgie' for a common toilet, via British
military slang. It apparently became confused with U.S. {kluge} during or after World War II; some
Britons from that era use both words in definably different ways, but {kluge} is now uncommon in
Great Britain. 'Kludge' in Commonwealth hackish differs in meaning from 'kluge' in that it lacks the
positive senses; a kludge is something no Commonwealth hacker wants to be associated too closely
with. Also, 'kludge' is more widely known in British mainstream slang than 'kluge' is in the U.S.

:kluge: /klooj/ [from the German 'klug', clever; poss. related to Polish 'klucz' (a key, a hint, a
main point)] 1. n. A Rube Goldberg (or Heath Robinson) device, whether in hardware or software. 2.
n. A clever programming trick intended to solve a particular nasty case in an expedient, if not
clear, manner. Often used to repair bugs. Often involves {ad-hockery} and verges on being a {crock}.
3. n. Something that works for the wrong reason. 4. vt. To insert a kluge into a program. "I've
kluged this routine to get around that weird bug, but there's probably a better way." 5. [WPI]
n. A feature that is implemented in a {rude} manner.

Nowadays this term is often encountered in the variant spelling 'kludge'. Reports from {old fart}s
are consistent that 'kluge' was the original spelling, reported around computers as far back as the
mid-1950s and, at that time, used exclusively of _hardware_ kluges. In 1947, the "New York Folklore
Quarterly" reported a classic shaggy-dog story 'Murgatroyd the Kluge Maker' then current in the
Armed Forces, in which a 'kluge' was a complex and puzzling artifact with a trivial function. Other
sources report that 'kluge' was common Navy slang in the WWII era for any piece of electronics that
worked well on shore but consistently failed at sea.

However, there is reason to believe this slang use may be a decade older. Several respondents have
connected it to the brand name of a device called a "Kluge paper feeder", an adjunct to mechanical
printing presses. Legend has it that the Kluge feeder was designed before small, cheap electric
motors and control electronics; it relied on a fiendishly complex assortment of cams, belts, and
linkages to both power and synchronize all its operations from one motive driveshaft. It was
accordingly temperamental, subject to frequent breakdowns, and devilishly difficult to repair -- but
oh, so clever! People who tell this story also aver that 'Kluge' was the name of a design engineer.

There is in fact a Brandtjen & Kluge Inc., an old family business that manufactures printing
equipment - interestingly, their name is pronounced /kloo'gee/! Henry Brandtjen, president of the
firm, told me (ESR, 1994) that his company was co-founded by his father and an engineer named Kluge
/kloo'gee/, who built and co-designed the original Kluge automatic feeder in 1919. Mr. Brandtjen
claims, however, that this was a _simple_ device (with only four cams); he says he has no idea how
the myth of its complexity took hold. Other correspondents differ with Mr. Brandtjen's history of
the device and his allegation that it was a simple rather than complex one, but agree that the Kluge
automatic feeder was the most likely source of the folklore.

{TMRC} and the MIT hacker culture of the early '60s seems to have developed in a milieu that
remembered and still used some WWII military slang (see also {foobar}). It seems likely that 'kluge'
came to MIT via alumni of the many military electronics projects that had been located in Cambridge
(many in MIT's venerable Building 20, in which {TMRC} is also located) during the war.

The variant 'kludge' was apparently popularized by the {Datamation} article mentioned above; it was
titled "How to Design a Kludge" (February 1962, pp. 30, 31). This spelling was probably imported
from Great Britain, where {kludge} has an independent history (though this fact was largely unknown
to hackers on either side of the Atlantic before a mid-1993 debate in the Usenet group
alt.folklore.computers over the First and Second Edition versions of this entry; everybody used to
think {kludge} was just a mutation of {kluge}). It now appears that the British, having forgotten
the etymology of their own 'kludge' when 'kluge' crossed the Atlantic, repaid the U.S. by lobbing
the 'kludge' orthography in the other direction and confusing their American cousins' spelling!

The result of this history is a tangle. Many younger U.S. hackers pronounce the word as /klooj/ but
spell it, incorrectly for its meaning and pronunciation, as 'kludge'. (Phonetically, consider huge,
refuge, centrifuge, and deluge as opposed to sludge, judge, budge, and fudge. Whatever its failings
in other areas, English spelling is perfectly consistent about this distinction.) British hackers
mostly learned /kluhj/ orally, use it in a restricted negative sense and are at least consistent.
European hackers have mostly learned the word from written American sources and tend to pronounce it
/kluhj/ but use the wider American meaning!

Some observers consider this mess appropriate in view of the word's meaning.

!--------------------------------------------------------------------!

from "The Jargon File", v 4.31. Now we all know :-)

Dave Larrington - legslarry.crosswinds.netlegslarry.crosswinds.netOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

WOW! "Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kludge? A little more complicated than previously hinted...

!--------------------------------------------------------------------!
:kludge: 1. /klooj/ n. Incorrect (though regrettably common) spelling of {kluge} (US). These two
words have been confused in American usage since

the

Quoted message said:

early 1960s, and widely confounded in Great Britain since the end of World War II. 2. [TMRC] A
{crock} that works. (A long-ago "Datamation" article

by

Quoted message said:

Jackson Granholme similarly said: "An ill-assorted collection of poorly matching parts, forming a
distressing whole."😉 3. v. To use a kludge to

get

Quoted message said:

around a problem. "I've kludged around it for now, but I'll fix it up properly later."

This word appears to have derived from Scots 'kludge' or 'kludgie' for a common toilet, via
British military slang. It apparently became confused with U.S. {kluge} during or after World War
II; some Britons from that era use both words in definably different ways, but {kluge} is now
uncommon in Great Britain. 'Kludge' in Commonwealth hackish differs in meaning from 'kluge' in
that it lacks the positive senses; a kludge is something no Commonwealth hacker wants to be
associated too closely with. Also,

'kludge'

Quoted message said:

is more widely known in British mainstream slang than 'kluge' is in the

U.S.

Quoted message said:

:kluge: /klooj/ [from the German 'klug', clever; poss. related to Polish 'klucz' (a key, a hint, a
main point)] 1. n. A Rube Goldberg (or Heath Robinson) device, whether in hardware or software. 2.
n. A clever programming trick intended to solve a particular nasty case in an

expedient,

Quoted message said:

if not clear, manner. Often used to repair bugs. Often involves

{ad-hockery}

Quoted message said:

and verges on being a {crock}. 3. n. Something that works for the wrong reason. 4. vt. To insert a
kluge into a program. "I've kluged this routine to get around that weird bug, but there's probably
a better way." 5. [WPI]

Quoted message said:

n. A feature that is implemented in a {rude} manner.

Nowadays this term is often encountered in the variant spelling 'kludge'. Reports from {old fart}s
are consistent that 'kluge' was the original spelling, reported around computers as far back as
the mid-1950s and, at that time, used exclusively of _hardware_ kluges. In 1947, the "New York
Folklore Quarterly" reported a classic shaggy-dog story 'Murgatroyd the Kluge Maker' then current
in the Armed Forces, in which a 'kluge' was a complex and puzzling artifact with a trivial
function. Other sources

report

Quoted message said:

that 'kluge' was common Navy slang in the WWII era for any piece of electronics that worked well
on shore but consistently failed at sea.

However, there is reason to believe this slang use may be a decade older. Several respondents have
connected it to the brand name of a device called

a

Quoted message said:

"Kluge paper feeder", an adjunct to mechanical printing presses. Legend

has

Quoted message said:

it that the Kluge feeder was designed before small, cheap electric motors and control electronics;
it relied on a fiendishly complex assortment of cams, belts, and linkages to both power and
synchronize all its operations from one motive driveshaft. It was accordingly temperamental,
subject to frequent breakdowns, and devilishly difficult to repair -- but oh, so clever! People
who tell this story also aver that 'Kluge' was the name of

a

Quoted message said:

design engineer.

There is in fact a Brandtjen & Kluge Inc., an old family business that manufactures printing
equipment - interestingly, their name is pronounced /kloo'gee/! Henry Brandtjen, president of the
firm, told me (ESR, 1994)

that

Quoted message said:

his company was co-founded by his father and an engineer named Kluge /kloo'gee/, who built and
co-designed the original Kluge automatic feeder

in

Quoted message said:

1919. Mr. Brandtjen claims, however, that this was a _simple_ device (with only four cams); he
says he has no idea how the myth of its complexity

took

Quoted message said:

hold. Other correspondents differ with Mr. Brandtjen's history of the

device

Quoted message said:

and his allegation that it was a simple rather than complex one, but agree that the Kluge
automatic feeder was the most likely source of the

folklore.

Quoted message said:

{TMRC} and the MIT hacker culture of the early '60s seems to have

developed

Quoted message said:

in a milieu that remembered and still used some WWII military slang (see also {foobar}). It seems
likely that 'kluge' came to MIT via alumni of the many military electronics projects that had been
located in Cambridge

(many

Quoted message said:

in MIT's venerable Building 20, in which {TMRC} is also located) during

the

Quoted message said:

war.

The variant 'kludge' was apparently popularized by the {Datamation}

article

Quoted message said:

mentioned above; it was titled "How to Design a Kludge" (February 1962,

pp.

Quoted message said:

30, 31). This spelling was probably imported from Great Britain, where {kludge} has an independent
history (though this fact was largely unknown

to

Quoted message said:

hackers on either side of the Atlantic before a mid-1993 debate in the Usenet group
alt.folklore.computers over the First and Second Edition versions of this entry; everybody used to
think {kludge} was just a

mutation

Quoted message said:

of {kluge}). It now appears that the British, having forgotten the

etymology

Quoted message said:

of their own 'kludge' when 'kluge' crossed the Atlantic, repaid the U.S.

by

Quoted message said:

lobbing the 'kludge' orthography in the other direction and confusing

their

Quoted message said:

American cousins' spelling!

The result of this history is a tangle. Many younger U.S. hackers

pronounce

Quoted message said:

the word as /klooj/ but spell it, incorrectly for its meaning and pronunciation, as 'kludge'.
(Phonetically, consider huge, refuge, centrifuge, and deluge as opposed to sludge, judge, budge,
and fudge. Whatever its failings in other areas, English spelling is perfectly consistent about
this distinction.) British hackers mostly learned /kluhj/ orally, use it in a restricted negative
sense and are at least consistent. European hackers have mostly learned the word from written
American

sources

Quoted message said:

and tend to pronounce it /kluhj/ but use the wider American meaning!

Some observers consider this mess appropriate in view of the word's

meaning.

Quoted message said:

!--------------------------------------------------------------------!

from "The Jargon File", v 4.31. Now we all know :-)

Dave Larrington - legslarry.crosswinds.netlegslarry.crosswinds.netOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
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WOW! "Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kludge? A little more complicated than previously hinted...

!--------------------------------------------------------------------!
:kludge: 1. /klooj/ n. Incorrect (though regrettably common) spelling of {kluge} (US). These two
words have been confused in American usage since

the

Quoted message said:

early 1960s, and widely confounded in Great Britain since the end of World War II. 2. [TMRC] A
{crock} that works. (A long-ago "Datamation" article

by

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Jackson Granholme similarly said: "An ill-assorted collection of poorly matching parts, forming a
distressing whole."😉 3. v. To use a kludge to

get

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around a problem. "I've kludged around it for now, but I'll fix it up properly later."

This word appears to have derived from Scots 'kludge' or 'kludgie' for a common toilet, via
British military slang. It apparently became confused with U.S. {kluge} during or after World War
II; some Britons from that era use both words in definably different ways, but {kluge} is now
uncommon in Great Britain. 'Kludge' in Commonwealth hackish differs in meaning from 'kluge' in
that it lacks the positive senses; a kludge is something no Commonwealth hacker wants to be
associated too closely with. Also,

'kludge'

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is more widely known in British mainstream slang than 'kluge' is in the

U.S.

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:kluge: /klooj/ [from the German 'klug', clever; poss. related to Polish 'klucz' (a key, a hint, a
main point)] 1. n. A Rube Goldberg (or Heath Robinson) device, whether in hardware or software. 2.
n. A clever programming trick intended to solve a particular nasty case in an

expedient,

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if not clear, manner. Often used to repair bugs. Often involves

{ad-hockery}

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and verges on being a {crock}. 3. n. Something that works for the wrong reason. 4. vt. To insert a
kluge into a program. "I've kluged this routine to get around that weird bug, but there's probably
a better way." 5. [WPI]

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n. A feature that is implemented in a {rude} manner.

Nowadays this term is often encountered in the variant spelling 'kludge'. Reports from {old fart}s
are consistent that 'kluge' was the original spelling, reported around computers as far back as
the mid-1950s and, at that time, used exclusively of _hardware_ kluges. In 1947, the "New York
Folklore Quarterly" reported a classic shaggy-dog story 'Murgatroyd the Kluge Maker' then current
in the Armed Forces, in which a 'kluge' was a complex and puzzling artifact with a trivial
function. Other sources

report

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that 'kluge' was common Navy slang in the WWII era for any piece of electronics that worked well
on shore but consistently failed at sea.

However, there is reason to believe this slang use may be a decade older. Several respondents have
connected it to the brand name of a device called

a

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"Kluge paper feeder", an adjunct to mechanical printing presses. Legend

has

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it that the Kluge feeder was designed before small, cheap electric motors and control electronics;
it relied on a fiendishly complex assortment of cams, belts, and linkages to both power and
synchronize all its operations from one motive driveshaft. It was accordingly temperamental,
subject to frequent breakdowns, and devilishly difficult to repair -- but oh, so clever! People
who tell this story also aver that 'Kluge' was the name of

a

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design engineer.

There is in fact a Brandtjen & Kluge Inc., an old family business that manufactures printing
equipment - interestingly, their name is pronounced /kloo'gee/! Henry Brandtjen, president of the
firm, told me (ESR, 1994)

that

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his company was co-founded by his father and an engineer named Kluge /kloo'gee/, who built and
co-designed the original Kluge automatic feeder

in

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1919. Mr. Brandtjen claims, however, that this was a _simple_ device (with only four cams); he
says he has no idea how the myth of its complexity

took

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hold. Other correspondents differ with Mr. Brandtjen's history of the

device

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and his allegation that it was a simple rather than complex one, but agree that the Kluge
automatic feeder was the most likely source of the

folklore.

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{TMRC} and the MIT hacker culture of the early '60s seems to have

developed

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in a milieu that remembered and still used some WWII military slang (see also {foobar}). It seems
likely that 'kluge' came to MIT via alumni of the many military electronics projects that had been
located in Cambridge

(many

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in MIT's venerable Building 20, in which {TMRC} is also located) during

the

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war.

The variant 'kludge' was apparently popularized by the {Datamation}

article

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mentioned above; it was titled "How to Design a Kludge" (February 1962,

pp.

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30, 31). This spelling was probably imported from Great Britain, where {kludge} has an independent
history (though this fact was largely unknown

to

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hackers on either side of the Atlantic before a mid-1993 debate in the Usenet group
alt.folklore.computers over the First and Second Edition versions of this entry; everybody used to
think {kludge} was just a

mutation

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of {kluge}). It now appears that the British, having forgotten the

etymology

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of their own 'kludge' when 'kluge' crossed the Atlantic, repaid the U.S.

by

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lobbing the 'kludge' orthography in the other direction and confusing

their

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American cousins' spelling!

The result of this history is a tangle. Many younger U.S. hackers

pronounce

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the word as /klooj/ but spell it, incorrectly for its meaning and pronunciation, as 'kludge'.
(Phonetically, consider huge, refuge, centrifuge, and deluge as opposed to sludge, judge, budge,
and fudge. Whatever its failings in other areas, English spelling is perfectly consistent about
this distinction.) British hackers mostly learned /kluhj/ orally, use it in a restricted negative
sense and are at least consistent. European hackers have mostly learned the word from written
American

sources

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and tend to pronounce it /kluhj/ but use the wider American meaning!

Some observers consider this mess appropriate in view of the word's

meaning.

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!--------------------------------------------------------------------!

from "The Jargon File", v 4.31. Now we all know :-)

Dave Larrington - legslarry.crosswinds.netlegslarry.crosswinds.netOpen ↗
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Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hi - I understand Bachetta makes their own dual caliper front brake (I haven't seen it) which
has the cable run in from the left bottom. I assume this is to avoid chain interference. Has
anyone tried putting a standard brake on the front? Why don't they just use a fork with canti
bosses so you can use a reversible V-brake like the Odyssey or the Cane Creek? Are there any
alternatives? This special brake seems like a kludge.

Regards Chris

I just installed the Bacchetta front brake on my Aerocycle and it is a tremendous improvement over
the lefty single pivot Dia-Compe that was original equipment. The stopping power and aesthetics are
both greatly improved. So far my experience with Bacchetta's efforts to manufacture quality
recumbent components has been very positive (I also have the tweener bars and fixed riser). I hope
that my finances and wife's appreciation of things cycling soon improve so that I might experience a
complete Bacchetta bike.

Bruce Shannahoff Los Angeles