Bacchetta vs. Hostel Shoppe

What's there to copyright? There have been plenty of monotube bikes before the Bacchetta.

Dave Larrington - legslarry.crosswinds.netlegslarry.crosswinds.netOpen ↗
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Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
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Alan Mushnick said:

How does the Hostel Shoppe get away with copying the Bacchetta without any problems? Aren't there
copyright rules or something?

The Hostel Shoppe bikes (Volae) are actually a lot closer to the Vision bikes than to the
Bacchetta. The frame is similar to the Vision's, but with a longer wheelbase, a hardshell seat, and
"drop bars".

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Alan Mushnick
How does the Hostel Shoppe get away with copying the Bacchetta without any problems? Aren't there
copyright rules or something? Alan

The HS is not actually copying the Bacchetta. The frames are made by ATP. Though I do think they are pretty close. Not close enough for me to like the Volae better than the Bacchetta, however.

Derek

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

How does the Hostel Shoppe get away with copying the Bacchetta without any problems? Aren't there
copyright rules or something? Alan

I believe that copyrights only apply to printed material. What you are refering to are patents.
AFAIK the Bacchetta Monotube design has not been patented. Since Bacchetta is not unique and
definitely not first in that design, I doubt that the U.S. Patent Office would even grant them a
patent. Bacchetta might have some claim to the unique teardrop shape monotube.

--

Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.orgOpen ↗
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Why all this search for controversey?

First off, as many have pointed out, there were single-stick 'bents before Bacchetta.

The bikes aren't nearly as similar as people seem to think. Take a good look at the images, and
you'll see plenty of difference. And they're even less similar once you have seen them up close and
ridden them.

Major differences include:

Both are steel, single stick. Similarity ends there. One is ovalized (or egg-shaped) and the other
is round. Rear wheel stays are straight on Bs, angled on Vs. Wheelbase and seat angle are different.
Seat stays are different. All Vs come with hardshells. Componentry is different. Seat retention is
much different on the V.Chain management is a bit different.

With the little experience I've had on both bike lines, they're both good, and both deserve to be
looked at when making your 'bent buying decision.

Seth Jayson said:

the V.Chain management is a bit different.

I was actually hoping to setup something similar to the Volae's chain management on my Bacchetta.
The Bacchetta's idler wears out very quickly, the chain rubs on itself on the way coming and going,
and the metal tab which is part of the frame is already bent out of shape due to the stress on it.
The Volae's chainline *looks* much cleaner and effective.

Dave, You are correct. When I look at the Phantom I see a Haluzak that has been sat upon by someone
too heavy. A bend here or there is not proprietary.

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

What's there to copyright? There have been plenty of monotube bikes before the Bacchetta.

Dave Larrington - legslarry.crosswinds.netlegslarry.crosswinds.netOpen ↗
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Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
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It seems odd to me that this would seem like such an issue in the recumbent world. Have you ever
noticed how similar a Colnago is to a DeRosa to a Pinarello to an Eddy Merckx..... Just my $.02 Best
regards, Bruce Shannahoff

Cletus Lee <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

How does the Hostel Shoppe get away with copying the Bacchetta without any problems? Aren't
there copyright rules or something? Alan

I believe that copyrights only apply to printed material. What you are refering to are patents.
AFAIK the Bacchetta Monotube design has not been patented. Since Bacchetta is not unique and
definitely not first in that design, I doubt that the U.S. Patent Office would even grant them a
patent. Bacchetta might have some claim to the unique teardrop shape monotube.

Also, the Strada can use 559 or 650C wheels. The Volae big wheels models are all 650C.

Quoted message said:

It seems odd to me that this would seem like such an issue in the recumbent world. Have you ever
noticed how similar a Colnago is to a DeRosa to a Pinarello to an Eddy Merckx.....

dude, they have TOTALLY different decals on them...

I'm fairly knowledgable about this. There is no infringement. There are parts of the Bacchetta that
I believe are patented. There are none of these parts on the Bacchettas. The Voalre frames made by
Vision are simply a longer wheelbase boomless modified version of existing products. The seat
attachment and adjustment remains to be put to long term end user use. Having been to HostelShoppe a
few times I have guessed that 70% of his business is mail order. Many a currently available bent has
been purchased from HS. Most purchasers have prior experience or have test ridden the product
somewhere prior to purchase. How do you do this with a product that is unavailable unless you know
someone that has one or take a trip to Stevens Point. Bacchetta on the other hand is increasing
their dealer base and is determined to remain dealer based. To this aim they have a team on the road
visiting various areas in support of their dealers. I have heard complaints about direct contact
problems with ALL the major bent companies and many of the smaller ones. However, the negitive
relationships are more apt to be posted than the many more positive experiences. Bents are getting
more positive response in recient times, more than I expected. Customers are saying..."You know, I
think these could be the bikes of the future"

Sure I have a vested interest since I am a dealer of bents. However, Those of you who have met me
know that my interest in recumbents is more personal than business.

Get out and ride!

Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and Sports,
Inc 1-800-586-6645 "Alan Mushnick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How does the Hostel Shoppe get away with copying the Bacchetta without any problems? Aren't there
copyright rules or something? Alan

I meant on my last post on this subject to say that none of the Bacchetta innovations such as the
Delrin seat clamp are on the HS entry which requires a teardrop tube. In reality other than the
monotube "stick" construction AND the similar wheelbase, the bikes are quite different. I have never
been into "Bent Bashing" I'm an each to their own person. However, as with Bacchetta the jury/court
of bentdom opinion will soon be bringing in a verdict to this entry. Like most before it it will
have its initial flaws and also its lovers and haters.

Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and Sports,
Inc 1-800-586-6645 "Jude T. McGloin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm fairly knowledgable about this. There is no infringement. There are parts of the
Bacchetta that I believe are patented. There are

none

Quoted message said:

of these parts on the Bacchettas. The Voalre frames made by Vision are simply a longer wheelbase
boomless modified version of existing products. The seat attachment and adjustment remains to be
put to long

term

Quoted message said:

end user use. Having been to HostelShoppe a few times I have guessed that 70%

of

Quoted message said:

his business is mail order. Many a currently available bent has been purchased from HS. Most
purchasers have prior experience or have test ridden the product somewhere prior to purchase. How
do you do this with a product that is unavailable unless you know someone that has one or take a
trip to Stevens Point. Bacchetta on the other hand is increasing their dealer base and is
determined to remain dealer based. To this aim they have a team on the road visiting various areas
in support of their dealers. I have heard complaints about direct contact problems with ALL the
major bent companies and many of the smaller ones. However, the

negitive

Quoted message said:

relationships are more apt to be posted than the many more positive experiences. Bents are getting
more positive response in recient times,

more

Quoted message said:

than I expected. Customers are saying..."You know, I think these could be the bikes of the future"

Sure I have a vested interest since I am a dealer of bents. However, Those of you who have met me
know that my interest in recumbents is more

personal

Quoted message said:

than business.

Get out and ride!

Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and
Sports, Inc 1-800-586-6645 "Alan Mushnick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How does the Hostel Shoppe get away with copying the Bacchetta without any problems? Aren't
there copyright rules or something? Alan

Hillel said:

Also, the Strada can use 559 or 650C wheels. The Volae big wheels models are all 650C.

A "650C" tire is the same as an ISO 571-mm tire. With a bead seat diameter difference of 12-mm,
the two difference size wheels can be exchanged as long as there is at least 6-mm of radial
brake pad adjustment travel available (and sufficient frame clearance on bikes designed for ISO
559-mm wheels).

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

"Cletus Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How does the Hostel Shoppe get away with copying the Bacchetta without any problems? Aren't
there copyright rules or something? Alan

I believe that copyrights only apply to printed material. What you are

refering to are patents.

Quoted message said:

AFAIK the Bacchetta Monotube design has not been patented. Since Bacchetta

is not unique and

Quoted message said:

definitely not first in that design, I doubt that the U.S. Patent Office

would even grant them

Quoted message said:

a patent. Bacchetta might have some claim to the unique teardrop shape

monotube.

Quoted message said:

--

Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.orgOpen ↗
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Not saying that Bacchetta would ever do this but the fact that a company wasn't first in a design
doesn't mean they won't try (and get) a patent. Late last year Southwestern Bell "patented" linking
of one web page to another even though its been done for the last 15 years now. The internet is full
of this kind of stupidity for the last couple of years