Bacchetta got it right

[email hidden] (stratrider) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I started seriously looking at recumbents in 1998. SWB bikes like the Vision R40 had a wheel base
of no more than 40 inches. Stability was scarey. Steering was really twitchy. I bought a Stratus.
Problem solved. I now have a Strada as well. It's wheel base is 47 inches. Stability is rock
solid. It's tweener bar steering and rider position far enough behind the front wheel fixes the
twitchy steering concerns I had about SWB bikes. These guys got it right! Congratulations.

Jim Reilly Reading, PA

Jim: I agree with you about the stability of the longer wheelbase SWBs. My Barcroft Virginia has the
same wheelbase length, but a different stem/handlebar set up. I find the bike very stable at speed.
But I also find that the longer wheelbase SWBs are more difficult to manuver at very slow speeds.
Like in other areas of recumbency, everything seems to be a compromise. On the whole I prefer
dealing with a little more twitchiness at "u-turn" speeds so I can get the improved stability at
higher speeds. At the Midwest Recumbent Rally last weekend I saw more Bacchettas and Volaes than any
other SWBs. I don't like their handlebar set-up, I find it too uncomfortable, but these bikes do
have solid and stable rides. And I am in the minority regarding the handlebar arrangement.

Mike S. St. Louis, Mo.

For even better stability in a SWB try a really long wheel base SWB like a Baron or T-Bone. My Baron
has the same wheelbase as my XL BikeE AT (~53"😉. It feels extremely stable down hills. Even better
than the Strada. I think alot of it is due to stiffer rear dropouts and wheels. Craig

[email hidden] (stratrider) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I started seriously looking at recumbents in 1998. SWB bikes like the Vision R40 had a wheel base
of no more than 40 inches. Stability was scarey. Steering was really twitchy. I bought a Stratus.
Problem solved. I now have a Strada as well. It's wheel base is 47 inches. Stability is rock
solid. It's tweener bar steering and rider position far enough behind the front wheel fixes the
twitchy steering concerns I had about SWB bikes. These guys got it right! Congratulations.

Jim Reilly Reading, PA

[email hidden] (stratrider) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I started seriously looking at recumbents in 1998. SWB bikes like the Vision R40 had a wheel base
of no more than 40 inches. Stability was scarey. Steering was really twitchy. I bought a Stratus.
Problem solved. I now have a Strada as well. It's wheel base is 47 inches. Stability is rock
solid. It's tweener bar steering and rider position far enough behind the front wheel fixes the
twitchy steering concerns I had about SWB bikes. These guys got it right! Congratulations.

Jim Reilly Reading, PA

I am delighted that you are pleased with your new Strada. I have had a Vision R40 for many years
now. Set up as a SWB I always found it a bit twitchy, especially at speed. So I set it up LWB OSS
and that solved most of the problem. But I am just very partial to LWB regardless. Be sure to post
to this forum if you encounter any foot numbness from the high BB of your new Strada.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[email hidden] (mike s) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Jim: I agree with you about the stability of the longer wheelbase SWBs. My Barcroft Virginia has
the same wheelbase length, but a different stem/handlebar set up. I find the bike very stable at
speed. But I also find that the longer wheelbase SWBs are more difficult to manuver at very slow
speeds. Like in other areas of recumbency, everything seems to be a compromise. On the whole I
prefer dealing with a little more twitchiness at "u-turn" speeds so I can get the improved
stability at higher speeds. At the Midwest Recumbent Rally last weekend I saw more Bacchettas and
Volaes than any other SWBs. I don't like their handlebar set-up, I find it too uncomfortable, but
these bikes do have solid and stable rides. And I am in the minority regarding the handlebar
arrangement.

I too like the more closed arm position that I get with my Vision R40 (OSS). I have heard this also
described as the begging hamster position, but it just feels so right. If have my arms stretched out
in front of me (Superman position) it feels unnatural and becomes tiresome after a while. Handlebar
position is very important when it comes to the over all recumbent configuration. It needs to be
considered just as carefully as anything else.

By the way, are you saying that the shorter the wheelbase, the more stable the bike is at speed. It
seems just the opposite to me. The longer the wheelbase, the more stable the bike is at speed. But I
am notorious for getting everything backwards.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"cbb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For even better stability in a SWB try a really long wheel base SWB like a Baron or T-Bone. My
Baron has the same wheelbase as my XL BikeE AT (~53"😉. It feels extremely stable down hills. Even
better than the Strada. I think alot of it is due to stiffer rear dropouts and wheels. Craig

[email hidden] (stratrider) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I started seriously looking at recumbents in 1998. SWB bikes like the Vision R40 had a wheel
base of no more than 40 inches. Stability was scarey. Steering was really twitchy. I bought a
Stratus. Problem solved. I now have a Strada as well. It's wheel base is 47 inches. Stability is
rock solid. It's tweener bar steering and rider position far enough behind the front wheel fixes
the twitchy steering concerns I had about SWB bikes. These guys got it right! Congratulations.

Jim Reilly Reading, PA

Do any of you know whether or not the Bachetta Corsa with the M-5 seat has an accessorey seat bag or
a bag that can be used to for light touring. I have a V-rex with a rack and nice bag but I can see
were that is against fast speed riding?

Thanks Bill V-Rex

Quoted message said:

By the way, are you saying that the shorter the wheelbase, the more stable the bike is at speed.
It seems just the opposite to me. The longer the wheelbase, the more stable the bike is at speed.
But I am notorious for getting everything backwards.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

The longer the wheelbase the more stable the bike at speed. I had a V-Rex for several years and
never had a complaint about its stability with a 43 inch wheel base. But the Virginia, with a 48
inch wheel base, is a stabler bike at speed. The V-Rex is a tad more manuverable at very slow speeds
than the Virginia. And, I also agree with you about the "praying hamster" or "smiling chipmunk"
position. I have ridden Stradas, Giros, and Volaes. All are very nice bikes. But the handlebar
position for me was just uncomfortable. I felt contorted when I rode them. I wish it were otherwise
as they perform very well (especially the dual 26 inch wheeled bikes). Put me on a RANS SWB product,
or a bike like the Barcrofts with the RANS steering, and I feel much more comfortable. The one 26/26
bike that I did like riding, and felt very comfortable with, was the Vision Sabre which employes
their OSS. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Mike S. St. Louis, Mo

The Bacchetta Website lists their "One for All" bag as designed for the M5 seat.
bacchettabikes.com14all.htmlOpen ↗ I've not seen it in person.

Regards, skitz

bill marsh said:

Do any of you know whether or not the Bachetta Corsa with the M-5 seat has an accessorey seat bag
or a bag that can be used to for light touring. I have a V-rex with a rack and nice bag but I can
see were that is against fast speed riding?

Thanks Bill V-Rex

[email hidden] (mike s) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

By the way, are you saying that the shorter the wheelbase, the more stable the bike is at speed.
It seems just the opposite to me. The longer the wheelbase, the more stable the bike is at
speed. But I am notorious for getting everything backwards.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

The longer the wheelbase the more stable the bike at speed. I had a V-Rex for several years and
never had a complaint about its stability with a 43 inch wheel base. But the Virginia, with a 48
inch wheel base, is a stabler bike at speed. The V-Rex is a tad more manuverable at very slow
speeds than the Virginia. And, I also agree with you about the "praying hamster" or "smiling
chipmunk" position. I have ridden Stradas, Giros, and Volaes. All are very nice bikes. But the
handlebar position for me was just uncomfortable. I felt contorted when I rode them. I wish it
were otherwise as they perform very well (especially the dual 26 inch wheeled bikes). Put me on a
RANS SWB product, or a bike like the Barcrofts with the RANS steering, and I feel much more
comfortable. The one 26/26 bike that I did like riding, and felt very comfortable with, was the
Vision Sabre which employes their OSS. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Mike S. St. Louis, Mo

I met Bill Cook, the designer and builder of your Barcroft Virginia, on the North Dakota ride known
as CANDISC. I rode the prototype that he was on briefly and I was mightily impressed by it. But I
knew that the high BB would cause foot numbness for me so I could not even entertain the thought of
getting one. The main thing I noted about the bike other than the high BB was the very long
wheelbase for a SWB. It seemed like a good idea to me and your comments about it are very
interesting.

By the way, although Bill claimed he was not a particularly strong or fast rider, he went like the
wind on it and there was no catching him on my Vision R40. I noted that Bill was very laid back on
his bike. I think that is the only way to go on a recumbent and I do not understand recumbent
cyclists who prefer the more upright position. But like you said above, different strokes for
different folks.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Personally, I much prefer the Bacchetta's handlebar position to every other one I've tried. I'm most definitely not in the "superman" position. My elbows are at my side with about a 110 degree bend, and my wrists are at a natural vertical position.

If you've ever sat in a Formula One racer, it's about like that.
I definitely played with the adjustments to get it just the way I like it (knee clearance, extension, bar angle, etc). The setup when I bought it was all wrong for me, and the ride home was quite frustrating. You'll need to consider the setup when you test ride it.

My Giro also handles like no other, and tackles the "Green Circle" trail in Stevens Point (winding gravel with many little ups and downs) with aplomb. (Did anyone else ride the trail at the Rally?).

Of course everybody has different personal likes, but the ones I had before changed the instant I took the Giro for a spin.
R2

Edward Dolan said:

... By the way, although Bill claimed he was not a particularly strong or fast rider, he went like
the wind on it and there was no catching him on my Vision R40. I noted that Bill was very laid
back on his bike. I think that is the only way to go on a recumbent and I do not understand
recumbent cyclists who prefer the more upright position. But like you said above, different
strokes for different folks.

A low BB, a reclined seat back, and a closed hip/pedal angle are incompatible. If a ride a SWB bike
with a relatively low BB (e.g. Haluzak Horizon or Vision 40/50 series) I end up wanted to have the
seatback all the way up to close the hip/pedal angle.

I would like a bike such as the Wishbone I had [1] (but with a better chainline and chain
management, more vertical frame compliance, and OSS).

[1] 13" (33 cm) seat height, 26" (66 cm) BB height

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

Kevin Skazalski said:

bill marsh said:

Do any of you know whether or not the Bachetta Corsa with the M-5 seat has an accessorey seat bag
or a bag that can be used to for light touring. I have a V-rex with a rack and nice bag but I can
see were that is against fast speed riding?

The Bacchetta Website lists their "One for All" bag as designed for the M5 seat.
bacchettabikes.com14all.htmlOpen ↗ I've not seen it in person.

There's also the Radical Solo bag: calhouncycle.combags.htmlOpen ↗

Kind of small though, too small to carry my Topeak Road Morph pump.

Ken Kobayashi [email hidden] solarwww.mtk.nao.ac.jppersonalOpen ↗

bill marsh said:

Do any of you know whether or not the Bachetta Corsa with the M-5 seat has an accessorey seat bag
or a bag that can be used to for light touring. I have a V-rex with a rack and nice bag but I can
see were that is against fast speed riding?

Thanks Bill V-Rex

I use a rack and a small Radical Universal bag on my V-Rex.

On my Volae Team, with M-5 seat, I'm using a FastBack Carbon hydration pack

fastbacksystem.comfastbackcarbon.htmOpen ↗

along with the FastBack Carbon seat bag

fastbacksystem.comcarbonseatbag.htmOpen ↗

The hydration pack includes a small bag that's plenty big enough for tools and tubes. There are
straps or an optional "holster" to carry a pump, but instead I decided to carry a CO2 inflator and
some CO2 cartridges which also fit easily into the small tool bag.

The bigger outer seat bag is big enough for a day trip's worth of food and a rain jacket and tights,
but not much more.

The biggest pain is having to load up the hydration pack and strap it onto the seat before heading
out. But I'm getting faster every time I do it.

All in all I'm pretty happy with the FastBack system.

Rick Moll RANS V-Rex Volae Team

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan said:

... By the way, although Bill claimed he was not a particularly strong or fast rider, he went
like the wind on it and there was no catching him on my Vision R40. I noted that Bill was very
laid back on his bike. I think that is the only way to go on a recumbent and I do not understand
recumbent cyclists who prefer the more upright position. But like you said above, different
strokes for different folks.

A low BB, a reclined seat back, and a closed hip/pedal angle are incompatible. If a ride a SWB
bike with a relatively low BB (e.g. Haluzak Horizon or Vision 40/50 series) I end up wanted to
have the seatback all the way up to close the hip/pedal angle.

I would like a bike such as the Wishbone I had [1] (but with a better chainline and chain
management, more vertical frame compliance, and OSS).

Quoted message said:

[1] 13" (33 cm) seat height, 26" (66 cm) BB height

Yes, a bike such as the Infinity and the Tour Easy do mandate a very upright position as opposed to
a Vision. The hip/pedal angle is critical and I had to learn it the hard way by buying many
different recumbents. The main problem I have with the upright position is that after a couple of
hours I can get a bit of discomfort (sore butt) whereas with the more laid back position of the
Vision I can ride all day and never feel a thing.

I am somewhat amused by your categorizing of the Vision as a "relatively low BB" but when I see what
you have ridden (the Sunset and the Wishbone) it begins to make sense I guess. Your former Wishbone
had more than 10" difference between the seat height and the BB height which makes it all but
impossible for me. I regard the Vision configuration (set up LWB - very similar to a Tailwind) as
the optimum setting. I have noted that Mark Stonich also regards this as the optimum too (BB 4"
below the seat) although it may be that his hip surgeries have something to do with that. This use
to be Robert Bryant's (editor of RCN) optimum recumbent configuration too with the BB about 2" below
the seat but I believe he has recently been seduced by SWB high BB bikes. They are all the fashion
now I will admit.

I do not like the Vision with the seat back all the way up as discomfort starts to kick in then.
However, I think it is a more powerful pedaling position and you will climb better and go faster
over all. But I am into recumbents for the comfort thing, not the speed thing. When you give up on
the idea of having to be fast on a recumbent a whole new world opens up. Try it sometime. You
might like
it. 😉

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Bill, there is also an under-bike rack available for the B bikes. It holds panniers. That may be a
solution for light touring then remove it for daily use and go fast rides. See the one-for-all bag
and mid-ship rack here: x-eyed.comacc1.htmlOpen ↗ Don

"bill marsh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"cbb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For even better stability in a SWB try a really long wheel base SWB like a Baron or T-Bone.
My Baron has the same wheelbase as my XL BikeE AT (~53"😉. It feels extremely stable down
hills. Even better than the Strada. I think alot of it is due to stiffer rear dropouts and
wheels. Craig

[email hidden] (stratrider) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I started seriously looking at recumbents in 1998. SWB bikes like the Vision R40 had a wheel
base of no more than 40 inches. Stability was scarey. Steering was really twitchy. I bought a
Stratus. Problem solved. I now have a Strada as well. It's wheel base is 47 inches. Stability
is rock solid. It's tweener bar steering and rider position far enough behind the front wheel
fixes the twitchy steering concerns I had about SWB bikes. These guys got it right!
Congratulations.

Jim Reilly Reading, PA

Do any of you know whether or not the Bachetta Corsa with the M-5 seat has an accessorey seat bag
or a bag that can be used to for light touring. I have a V-rex with a rack and nice bag but I can
see were that is against fast speed riding?

Thanks Bill V-Rex

Bill, OOPS, I apologize for my previous post on the mid-ship rack. I just blew up the picture and
read the details. It is for the mesh seats, not the M5 you asked about. I knew the solution seemed
too easy. Sorry, Don

"bill marsh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"cbb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For even better stability in a SWB try a really long wheel base SWB like a Baron or T-Bone.
My Baron has the same wheelbase as my XL BikeE AT (~53"😉. It feels extremely stable down
hills. Even better than the Strada. I think alot of it is due to stiffer rear dropouts and
wheels. Craig

[email hidden] (stratrider) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I started seriously looking at recumbents in 1998. SWB bikes like the Vision R40 had a wheel
base of no more than 40 inches. Stability was scarey. Steering was really twitchy. I bought a
Stratus. Problem solved. I now have a Strada as well. It's wheel base is 47 inches. Stability
is rock solid. It's tweener bar steering and rider position far enough behind the front wheel
fixes the twitchy steering concerns I had about SWB bikes. These guys got it right!
Congratulations.

Jim Reilly Reading, PA

Do any of you know whether or not the Bachetta Corsa with the M-5 seat has an accessorey seat bag
or a bag that can be used to for light touring. I have a V-rex with a rack and nice bag but I can
see were that is against fast speed riding?

Thanks Bill V-Rex

I also agree the Bacchetta Guys got it right. Met up with a friend today on his Strada / Corsa mix
and got to take it around for a few miles. (Those bikes just ride and handle SO GOOD! And I was able
to maintain a pretty good speed, considering I have 5+ years of Easy Racer (Low BB) bike legs) Then
I made the mistake of telling my friend that my Aero Order is back on and arrival of it should be
fairly soon. NOW, I guess... I'll have to let my friend mount (GULP!) and try (EEEEEK) my BABY, when
it arrives!!!!!!!! Now if I could just snag one of those new Bacchetta Jerseys........ ;-) <Grin> EZ
Biker :-) Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti and SOON, Bacchetta Aero Pilot)

"stratrider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

I had about SWB bikes. These guys got it right! Congratulations.

Jim Reilly Reading, PA

"bill marsh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"cbb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For even better stability in a SWB try a really long wheel base SWB like a Baron or T-Bone.
My Baron has the same wheelbase as my XL BikeE AT (~53"😉. It feels extremely stable down
hills. Even better than the Strada. I think alot of it is due to stiffer rear dropouts and
wheels. Craig

[email hidden] (stratrider) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I started seriously looking at recumbents in 1998. SWB bikes like the Vision R40 had a wheel
base of no more than 40 inches. Stability was scarey. Steering was really twitchy. I bought a
Stratus. Problem solved. I now have a Strada as well. It's wheel base is 47 inches. Stability
is rock solid. It's tweener bar steering and rider position far enough behind the front wheel
fixes the twitchy steering concerns I had about SWB bikes. These guys got it right!
Congratulations.

Jim Reilly Reading, PA

Do any of you know whether or not the Bachetta Corsa with the M-5 seat has an accessorey seat bag
or a bag that can be used to for light touring. I have a V-rex with a rack and nice bag but I can
see were that is against fast speed riding?

Thanks Bill V-Rex

Thankyou all for the help Now just to save up the bucks. I have no more

pack hang ups and I need to just borrow a freinds strada to make sure I don't have sleepy foot
problems. Again thanks Bill V-rex
PS just got back from Michigan west bicycle tour. Its a must for a good tour , Very well put on and
organized, Beautiful scenery and great Micro breweries .

Ed, I am pleased to say that I have had no problems with numb feet after several 3 to 4 hour rides.
Still, the high bb remains very unnatural for me.

Jim

[email hidden] (stratrider) wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Ed, I am pleased to say that I have had no problems with numb feet after several 3 to 4 hour
rides. Still, the high bb remains very unnatural for me.

Jim, that is very good news indeed. I do not think you will ever have a problem with numb feet as it
would have kicked in by now. It takes a while to get use to the high BB. A low BB will always feel
more natural as that is the way nature designed our bodies, i.e., to have our legs below our hips.
Also, there are an amazingly large number of recumbents where you will have foot interference with
the front wheel at slow speed making sharp turns, whether SWB or LWB. I can even get that on my Tour
Easy clone without half trying.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota