Avg Power or Normalized for FTP value?

fleshbroiler said:

I've had my PT Pro & WKO+ for just over a month so obviously still on a learning curve. I need to reset my FTP value and want to know if I should use avg power or normalized?

Thanks.

Typically avg power. What method are you using to set FTP?

I think it depends on your training/racing plan.

I have REALLY had a hard time recovering from all the racing I have been doing this season - so racing has been testing, because this was the only days where I was really fresh.
If you do regular long intervals or timetrials with a powermeter use the avg. power values. If you only have data from roadraces or criteriums: use the 1 hour normalized power.

Alex Simmons said:

Typically avg power. What method are you using to set FTP?

I have not yet performed a "best 20 minute effort" exactly as described here: http://www.trainingpeaks.com/hunter/thresholdwattage.asp, in that I wasn't fresh so my 20 minute effort was somewhat lackluster ; ). I've been using my normalized power from that interval (~210) . My TSS/IF values from 8 of my last 10 rides have been >100/1.05. I noticed the recent thread here regarding this so I figured I'd look into it. I thought I'd use data from a recent all out effort, but there's quite a difference between my average and normalized power for that ride; 20 min peak avg/normalized was 179/241.

Thank you again for the input.

You may also take a % of normalized 20 minute power (say, 95%). This might be higher than your 1 hour averages.

Loking at your TSS/IF scores, you should probably be using a higher FTP value in the software.

Whatever you punch in, just try to keept the same testing protocol over your season.

A Coggan's 7 Deadly Sins:

Quoted post said:

...er, ways of determining your functional threshold power (roughly in
order of increasing certainty):

1) from inspection of a ride file.
2) from power distribution profile from multiple rides.
3) from blood lactate measurements (better or worse, depending on how it
is done).
4) based on normalized power from a hard ~1 h race.
5) using critical power testing and analysis.
6) from the power that you can routinely generate during long intervals
done in training.
7) from the average power during a ~1 h TT (the best predictor of
performance is performance itself).

Note the key words "hard", "routinely", and "average" in methods 4, 6,
and 7...

Dave

fleshbroiler said:

I have not yet performed a "best 20 minute effort" exactly as described here: trainingpeaks.comthresholdwattage.aspOpen ↗, in that I wasn't fresh so my 20 minute effort was somewhat lackluster ; ). I've been using my normalized power from that interval (~210) . My TSS/IF values from 8 of my last 10 rides have been >100/1.05. I noticed the recent thread here regarding this so I figured I'd look into it. I thought I'd use data from a recent all out effort, but there's quite a difference between my average and normalized power for that ride; 20 min peak avg/normalized was 179/241.

Thank you again for the input.

I'd suggest finding a more suitable course for conducting a 20min effort, this sounds like it's very up n down given the Variability Index of 241/179 = 1.34

Try to find somewhere where the gradient is a little more constant if possible. Flat or gradual incline, doesn't matter a great deal (trainer is another option). OK to have some undulations but they need to be so you can pedal and keep the pressure on the whole journey. That way your VI will be much closer to 1.

Alex Simmons said:

Try to find somewhere where the gradient is a little more constant if possible. Flat or gradual incline, doesn't matter a great deal (trainer is another option). OK to have some undulations but they need to be so you can pedal and keep the pressure on the whole journey.

Will do, thanks again.

I had a similar question to the OP. I did a 1x20m TT on rollers. NP/AP was 1.01, so very little variability. But I didn't do a second TT. Would it be OK to assume that I could have repeated another 20m at the same average power and take 95% of that figure as my FTP? Yes, I could do 2x20mm at my max sustainable power for that duration, but that requires more motivation than I can muster for indoor riding.

I'll have a better sense after some fast outdoor rides, but just wanted to get a level on which to base my indoor sessions over the next few days. I'd like to follow the SST intervals that many here recommend of 91-95% of FTP for 2x20. Thanks.

serpico7 said:

I had a similar question to the OP. I did a 1x20m TT on rollers.....

The 20 minute *0.95 protocol only requires a single effort. But IME rollers aren't that great for tests like that since it's hard to go all out or dig really deep since you don't want to fall off the damn things. I've ridden them for years, but do my best hard efforts including MAP and Monod tests on a trainer or outdoors where I can focus all my energy on riding hard.

Anyway, I'd use your first test as an estimate and then adjust it as necessary when you start your SST and L4 work. Basically increase the intensity of your efforts when they seem too easy and decrease if you can't complete the target workouts. The SST/L4 stuff is really self adjusting so a rough estimate is all you need to get started. Once you do get started all you really need for FTP estimates is to keep track of your regular and repeatable long efforts. Tests like Monod and MAP can give you a bit more insight into pacing arbitrary durations but just tracking your regular long intervals is plenty to track FTP progress.

Good luck,
Dave

Hi

I don't know if it's of any use but I looked through the test protocol in "The Bible" and typed it out in a step by step format on a single sheet then laminated it (sweat protection!) to make it easy to follow when on a turbo, which is where I'll do my testing. Just put it somewhere you can see it, start a stopwatch, then do what it says at the elapsed time indicated in the left hand column.

If it's of any use to anyone I've made it available here:

Regards to all.

:o