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Authentic Italian

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
16 March 2006
Last activity
19 March 2006
Original author
Daisy
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  1. On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:33:55 +0100, "Luca Pinotti"
    <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    "Daisy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I visit Italy about every 2 years or so. Always in the North. I
    have foiund that the quite interesting American/Italian cookery
    programs do not relfect what I eat when I am in the Veneto or Emelio
    Romagno provinces. Yes, the recommended cheese is the same, as is the
    proscuitto but the food I eat with family and at restaurants is
    nothing like the American/Italian presenters cook.

    Perhaps American Italian/American cooks are from a different region of
    Italy -Sicily or the south perhaps?

    Thsi is NOT a criticism but seeking an explanation for the difference.

    Well, I've been in US three or four times for my summer holidays and I've
    been in an italian restaurant just once, because my american friend of mine
    (who's married to an italian) wanted to eat "Italian".
    First of all I think the first Italian/American cooks were mostly from
    sothern regions, Campania, Sicilly, Calabria and Basilicata. Few were from
    Liguria and Veneto or Tuscany.
    Second: many recipes are quite old (even one century) and were probably
    "family recipes". Many ingredients are now difficult to find and the Italian
    cuisine is now more "light".
    Third: The Italian cuisine is much more than regional, the same dish differs
    a lot even 30 Km far.
    Fourth: A cuisine is always "contaminated" by local taste, habits and
    culture, and, of course, affected by the availability of original and local
    ingredients.

    Two examples: you have pizza with "pepperoni", which is a sort of salame;
    "peperoni" are the vegetables (green, red or yellow) and I've no idea why
    you call it this way. Probably because the sausage was originally some kind
    of "soppressata piccante" from Calabria made with red hot chili pepper.
    I've seen many times "spaghetti with meatballs", this is a recipe originally
    from Basilicata, I think you have never found it in a northern Italy
    restaurant.

    lp


    Correct. I have never seen spaghetti and meatballs on the family
    table nor in any restaurant I've been in in Northern Italy (including
    Emilio Romagna). There are pizza places and we sometimes eat at those
    if we are out and about doing things around a mealtime - usually lunch
    on weekdays. The base crust is extra extra thin, and the toppings
    vary of course - but frequently feature spinach and/or other
    vegetables. They are delicious. I find that frequently the mozarella
    is sliced and cooked on the pizza - not grated or shredded. I have no
    idea if any sort of sausage is added because I always have the
    vegetarian one and don't look at others on offer!

    I agree with you about regions, although many ingredients from Emilio
    Romagna are sold widely in Italy.

    The family I am connected to (who live near Vicenza) discourage me
    from helping with anything because I am always treated as the honoured
    guest! However, I did watch my daughter-in-law's mama make the
    Ricotta Gnocchi she says is actually a regional dish from Emilio
    Romagna. I wrote down the ingredients and method which I will share:

    2 cups chopped cooked spinach (about 1kg fresh).
    2 cups freshly grated parmesan cheese
    half a cup general all purpose flour
    1 cup ricotta cheese
    2 eggs pinch grated nutmeg (use whole, not ground)
    salt and pepper
    90g melted butter

    Put the spinach, cheeses, eggs, and salt and pepper and quarter of a
    cup of the flour - into a large earthenware bowl and mix well. Shape
    the mixture into little ovals - about the size of a walnut is good and
    then roll each in the remaining flour. Bring a pot of lightly salted
    water to the boil and with a large slotted spoon (or sieve) cook only
    a few of the gnocchi at a time until they float to the top.

    Drain and arrange in a large serving dish and then pour the melted
    butter over.

    (I watched a programme featuring the Italian TV cook who has a
    restaurant in London (Antonio Carlucci?) who visited a house in E.R.
    and co-hosted a very similar gnocchi dish. This reinforced how I saw
    it made.)

    The abundance of fresh vegetables and good meat in the North obviously
    influences the cuisines almost all over the northern provinces of
    Italy. We always eat meat (or fish) at the main meal of the day - and
    sometimes both! I didn't see any minced beef dishes except the
    Bolognaise sauces on some restaurant menus - again mainly trattoria or
    fast lunch places.

    People who emigrate always bring with them their national preferences
    and this even applies to the British who brought their awful cuisine
    into the British Commonwealth. Now, of course, the British are
    rapidly adapting into Asian and European cuisine styles - some with
    fusion and some individual dishes that use really good imported
    seasonal ingredients. Gone are the soggy vegetables and mashed
    potatoes dished up alongside overcooked roasts. Thank heavens.

    Here is another quick recipe for an Italian meal On The Run. I ate
    this at a quick Short-Order lunch place in Padova that catered for the
    surrounding office workers. The owner/cook kindly gave me the
    recipe, which I have altered for two people. You can make more if
    you like - just double everything.

    Pasta with Tomatoes

    Two cups oriechette pasta (or large penne)
    4 small roma tomatoes - skinned and finely sliced.
    2 shallots finely chopped
    1 clove garlic finely chopped
    Dash of tabasco.
    salt and pepper
    2 crushed and finely chopped anchovies (optional)
    1 tbsp finely chopped fresh herbs (Italian parsley, tarragon,
    oreganum) - you can use 1 dsp dried mixed herbs if its winter.
    extra virgin olive oil.

    Cook the pasta in salted water until al dente

    While the pasta is cooking, make the sauce.

    Heat 1 tbsp olive oil until medium heat, and add the shallots and
    garlic (and anchovies if you are using them) stir for a couple of
    minutes and then add the tomatoes and herbs. Cook over medium heat
    Season to taste and add the tabasco.

    Heat an earthenware bowl and place a couple of tbsp of the sauce
    mixture into the bowl. Add the drained pasta and the remaining
    sauce. Serve with freshly grated parmesan cheese on the side.

    (If you have used an ovenproof bowl - and I do - then you can pop this
    pasta dish into a warm oven for a few minutes. Cover if you want to
    delay serving for 10 minutes or more.)

    Cheers

    Daisy

    Carthage demands an explanation for this insolence!

  2. "Dee Randall" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Luca Pinotti"
    <[email hidden]>
    wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Default User" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Daisy wrote:


    Lidia Motika (1946) was born in Pola, now Pula, in Istria. Istria was
    taken by Yugoslavia after the WWII. Now Pula is in Croatia.
    The cuisine there is much more similar to the Austrian/Hungarian than to
    the Italian one.


    According to my own tastes, I wonder that she is so in tune with Italian
    cooking. I've been to these places (when it was Yugoslavia) and Austria
    and Hungary, and I almost starved -- well, I didn't, but the food was
    certainly not remarkable for me.

    Well, we could start a longer and wider Thread about "European cuisine".
    There are so many shades between countries that an American who has never
    been in Europe can't even imagine.
    Italy has a great asset: pasta. We can offer thousands of different recipes
    of shapes of pasta and different sauces. Beside this consider we connect
    middle-Europe (France, Switzerland Ausstia, Croatia) with the Mediterranean
    (Greece, northern Africa, Spain). Thus you can find Sud-Tirol knödel and
    speck, Val d'Aosta fondue, Arab couscous in Sicilly etc etc.

    Quoted message said:

    It would be nice if we would have more cooks that were not so 'show
    business' oriented on foodnetwork. I watched Giada's Chefography show and

    I saw Foodnetwork a couple of time and my wife was so disgusted that asked
    me to write to the editor to not say that the dishes and recipes shown were
    italian. Truly a fraud.

    lp

  3. "Daisy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:33:55 +0100, "Luca Pinotti"
    <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    "Daisy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Two examples: you have pizza with "pepperoni", which is a sort of salame;
    "peperoni" are the vegetables (green, red or yellow) and I've no idea why
    you call it this way. Probably because the sausage was originally some
    kind
    of "soppressata piccante" from Calabria made with red hot chili pepper.
    I've seen many times "spaghetti with meatballs", this is a recipe
    originally
    from Basilicata, I think you have never found it in a northern Italy
    restaurant.


    Correct. I have never seen spaghetti and meatballs on the family
    table nor in any restaurant I've been in in Northern Italy (including
    Emilio Romagna). There are pizza places and we sometimes eat at those
    if we are out and about doing things around a mealtime - usually lunch
    on weekdays. The base crust is extra extra thin, and the toppings
    vary of course - but frequently feature spinach and/or other
    vegetables. They are delicious. I find that frequently the mozarella
    is sliced and cooked on the pizza - not grated or shredded. I have no
    idea if any sort of sausage is added because I always have the
    vegetarian one and don't look at others on offer!

    Yes. The original pizza is the "Napoli" pizza: tomato sauce, sliced
    mozzarella, basil and anchovies. Olive oil, of course. Extra thin crust!
    I remember when I was young in a famous pizzeria in Naples I had four
    pizzas! They were so thin and soft (and cheap) you could go on eating them
    for hours ;-)

    Quoted message said:

    I agree with you about regions, although many ingredients from Emilio
    Romagna are sold widely in Italy.

    Nowadays you can find almost everything everywhere. Emila Romagna is famous
    for his prosciutto, culatello, spalla, and other pork-based "salumi". But
    remeber that the mozzarella is from Salerno (and province, near Naples. btw:
    have you ever tasted the mozzarella for the Amalfi coast? Wow!!!), "dry"
    pasta (spaghetti, macceroni etc etc) are from Gragnano (there was the oldes
    pasta factory dated 1700).

    Quoted message said:

    The family I am connected to (who live near Vicenza) discourage me
    from helping with anything because I am always treated as the honoured
    guest! However, I did watch my daughter-in-law's mama make the
    Ricotta Gnocchi she says is actually a regional dish from Emilio
    Romagna. I wrote down the ingredients and method which I will share:

    Gnocchi made with potatoes or with bread are mostly from
    N-Italy/Austria/Croatia. Gnocchi (dumplings) are a variation of the
    Austrian/German knodel. Maybe migrations from Veneto to Emilia Romagna
    brought them down there.

    Quoted message said:

    The abundance of fresh vegetables and good meat in the North obviously
    influences the cuisines almost all over the northern provinces of
    Italy. We always eat meat (or fish) at the main meal of the day - and
    sometimes both! I didn't see any minced beef dishes except the
    Bolognaise sauces on some restaurant menus - again mainly trattoria or
    fast lunch places.

    Unusual, but not impossible. If you were near Vicenza note that there is an
    adage "Vicentini mangia gatti" => "People from Vicenza eat cats". I think
    that's why you cannot find fine-minced or chopped meat in restaurants. Cats
    are now protected by the law ;-)
    In Austia they serve a "Venetian Ragù" that's basically a stew (with tomato
    sauce and vegetables, similar to a Bolognaise sauce, but with chopped meat,
    not minced).

    Quoted message said:

    People who emigrate always bring with them their national preferences
    and this even applies to the British who brought their awful cuisine
    into the British Commonwealth. Now, of course, the British are
    rapidly adapting into Asian and European cuisine styles - some with
    fusion and some individual dishes that use really good imported
    seasonal ingredients. Gone are the soggy vegetables and mashed
    potatoes dished up alongside overcooked roasts. Thank heavens.

    May I disagree? I've found excellent cuisine ein UK. Beside the delicius
    haggis and pies. Please have a look to this restaurant in London
    http://www.porters.uk.com/ ...

    Quoted message said:

    Carthage demands an explanation for this insolence!


    Delenda Cartago!

    lp

  4. Wayne Boatwright said:

    On Fri 17 Mar 2006 03:23:34a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Michael
    "Dog3" Lonergan?

    Quoted message said:

    "Default User" <[email hidden]> hitched up their panties and
    posted news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    That's a big part of it. Also, many recipes changed due to the
    availability of ingredients in the US.

    Lidia Bastianich often talked about these things in her show, both the
    regionalisms and the changes made by immigrants. She was originally
    from northern Italy, in fact a part that's not even Italy anymore.

    Brian



    What part of "not" Italy is this and when did it cease to be Italy?
    --

    Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.

  5. "sf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Wayne Boatwright said:

    On Fri 17 Mar 2006 03:23:34a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Michael
    "Dog3" Lonergan?

    Quoted message said:

    "Default User" <[email hidden]> hitched up their panties and
    posted news:[email hidden]:

    >
    >
    > That's a big part of it. Also, many recipes changed due to the
    > availability of ingredients in the US.
    >
    > Lidia Bastianich often talked about these things in her show, both


    the

    Quoted message said:

    > regionalisms and the changes made by immigrants. She was originally
    > from northern Italy, in fact a part that's not even Italy anymore.
    >
    >
    >
    > Brian


    What part of "not" Italy is this and when did it cease to be Italy?
    --


    It's in the history books.
    Look at this map of Italy http://go.hrw.com/atlas/norm_htm/italy.htm
    If you look at Croatia -- it wasn't long ago, maps said 'Yugoslavia.'
    Boundaries and names change for various reasons. You'll have to wade thru
    google and the history thereof, unless someone here is a historian can give
    you the answer.
    Dee Dee

  6. Michael 'Dog3' Lonergan said:

    Wayne Boatwright <wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> hitched up their panties
    and posted news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Who is Lidia Bastianich? I've never heard her name. Gawd... and I live
    in St. Louis with a huge Italian culture.

    But she doesn't live there! <g>

    http://tinyurl.com/zrway


    Wonferful link. Thank You!!!!


    Lidia Bastianich is good, however one chooses to categorize her food.
    Unlike some celebrities, she is not afraid to offer simple recipes,
    like this one for batter fried zuccini. A good one to save for the
    summer excess zucchini season. It's from her site that Wayne gave.
    http://recipes.lidiasitaly.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=598 -aem

  7. "sf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Wayne Boatwright said:

    On Fri 17 Mar 2006 03:23:34a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Michael
    "Dog3" Lonergan?

    Quoted message said:

    "Default User" <[email hidden]> hitched up their panties and
    posted news:[email hidden]:

    >
    >
    > That's a big part of it. Also, many recipes changed due to the
    > availability of ingredients in the US.
    >
    > Lidia Bastianich often talked about these things in her show, both


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > regionalisms and the changes made by immigrants. She was originally
    > from northern Italy, in fact a part that's not even Italy anymore.
    >
    >
    >
    > Brian


    What part of "not" Italy is this and when did it cease to be Italy?

    Along the Adriatic coast and the eastern Alps, the area called Istria.
    Italy was on the losing side of WWII and lost this part of Istria. The area
    where Lidia is from is now in Croatia.

    Kate

  8. Michael 'Dog3' Lonergan said:

    Who is Lidia Bastianich? I've never heard her name. Gawd... and I live in
    St. Louis with a huge Italian culture.

    Michael

    My apologies for this late post, but if you go to:
    http://www.nytimes.com/pages/dining/index.html
    Scroll down to Dining Multimedia> The Batali-Bastianich Empire
    There is a bit more.

    I just thought she had a nice PBS series.

    Dave S

  9. Dave S said:
    Michael 'Dog3' Lonergan said:

    Who is Lidia Bastianich?

    Quoted message said:

    My apologies for this late post, but if you go to:
    http://www.nytimes.com/pages/dining/index.html
    Scroll down to Dining Multimedia> The Batali-Bastianich Empire
    There is a bit more.

    I just thought she had a nice PBS series.

    She's had several over the years. The current one is "Lidia's Family
    Table". It normally runs on Saturday afternoon here, but they've been
    doing pledge programming lately.

    Brian

    --
    If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
    won't shut up.
    -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

  10. "Default User" <[email hidden]> hitched up their panties and
    posted news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:
    Dave S said:
    Michael 'Dog3' Lonergan said:

    Who is Lidia Bastianich?

    Quoted message said:

    My apologies for this late post, but if you go to:
    http://www.nytimes.com/pages/dining/index.html
    Scroll down to Dining Multimedia> The Batali-Bastianich Empire
    There is a bit more.

    I just thought she had a nice PBS series.

    She's had several over the years. The current one is "Lidia's Family
    Table". It normally runs on Saturday afternoon here, but they've been
    doing pledge programming lately.

    Brian

    Thanks Brian. Good to know. I had no idea she had a show.

    Michael

    --
    "The most remarkable thing about my mother is that for thirty years she
    served the family nothing but leftovers. The original meal has never been
    found."

    --Calvin Trillin

  11. "aem" <[email hidden]> hitched up their panties and posted
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:
    Michael 'Dog3' Lonergan said:

    Wayne Boatwright <wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> hitched up their
    panties and posted
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    >
    > Who is Lidia Bastianich? I've never heard her name. Gawd... and
    > I live in St. Louis with a huge Italian culture.
    >

    But she doesn't live there! <g>

    http://tinyurl.com/zrway


    Wonferful link. Thank You!!!!


    Lidia Bastianich is good, however one chooses to categorize her food.
    Unlike some celebrities, she is not afraid to offer simple recipes,
    like this one for batter fried zuccini. A good one to save for the
    summer excess zucchini season. It's from her site that Wayne gave.
    http://recipes.lidiasitaly.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=598
    -aem

    Thanks for the heads up. The site is good none the less.

    Michael

    --
    "The most remarkable thing about my mother is that for thirty years she
    served the family nothing but leftovers. The original meal has never been
    found."

    --Calvin Trillin

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