General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Atrial Fibrillation and Pacemaker

Started by Don Payette · · Last activity · 19 posts · 949 views

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
4 May 2004
Last activity
11 May 2004
Original author
Don Payette
Posts
19
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
949
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–19 of 19
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. My wife has been diagnosed with Atrial Fibrillation. She
    just had an EchoCardioGram and the operator told her that
    her heart looked healthy except for the definite AFib.

    She has been on Coreg, but the side effects have been bad.
    She has gained 30 pounds in 3 months and doesn't sleep well.
    Weird dreams etc. Her cardiologist said he could prescribe
    other drugs, but she probably would be similarly
    disappointed. He is suggesting a catheter ablation, a
    pacemaker and Coumadin (sp?).

    I noticed one thread in this group that said a pacemaker is
    no help for AFib.

    Comments?

    -----------
    Don Payette Unisys Corporation I speak only for myself; not
    my employer Please reply in the newsgroup. Don't try
    sending e-mail.

  2. On Mon, 03 May 2004 11:23:30 -0700, Don Payette <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    My wife has been diagnosed with Atrial Fibrillation. She
    just had an EchoCardioGram and the operator told her that
    her heart looked healthy except for the definite AFib.

    She has been on Coreg, but the side effects have been bad.
    She has gained 30 pounds in 3 months and doesn't sleep
    well. Weird dreams etc. Her cardiologist said he could
    prescribe other drugs, but she probably would be similarly
    disappointed. He is suggesting a catheter ablation, a
    pacemaker and Coumadin (sp?).

    I noticed one thread in this group that said a pacemaker is
    no help for AFib.

    Comments?

    -----------
    Don Payette Unisys Corporation

    When I was first diagnosed with AF I was told that there was
    no chance of cardioversion which some people are fortunate
    to be able to have for this arrythmia. Our Prime Minister
    had this treatment quite recently. It is not done when the
    heart is damaged (at least that is what I was told).
    Catheter ablation via the artery in the groin is one method
    they use at my local Heart Centre but I am not sure about
    the success rate. You could look it up on the net. I had
    radio frequency ablation during surgery to replace a valve
    but, for me, it was not a complete success. To the best of
    my knowledge the main purpose of a pace-maker is to prevent
    the heart rate dropping too low. Mine prevents the rate
    going below 60 or above 130. For my rhythm problems I am
    prescribed Verapamil and also take Digoxin, diuretics and
    Coumadin (Warfarin to us). I have just looked up Coreg and
    its a BP treatment, not a treatment for arrythmia. A friend
    of my could not handle this drug because of the weird dreams
    effect. Finally, in the UK Coumadin is standard treatment
    for AF to prevent strokes which can occur due to the pooling
    of blood which happens with this condition. I hope your wife
    gets a treatment that makes her feel better. Diana

  3. Don Payette said:

    My wife has been diagnosed with Atrial Fibrillation. She
    just had an EchoCardioGram and the operator told her that
    her heart looked healthy except for the definite AFib.

    She has been on Coreg, but the side effects have been bad.
    She has gained 30 pounds in 3 months and doesn't sleep
    well. Weird dreams etc. Her cardiologist said he could
    prescribe other drugs, but she probably would be similarly
    disappointed. He is suggesting a catheter ablation, a
    pacemaker and Coumadin (sp?).

    I noticed one thread in this group that said a pacemaker
    is no help for AFib.

    Comments?

    Coreg is really not that good for controlling the heart rate
    of those who are in atrial fibrillation. Most people with
    atrial fibrillation do not need either ablation or a
    pacemaker. For these reasons, would suggest you have your
    wife seek a second opinion.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    What is all this about?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    Is this spam?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

  4. Ablation has shown limited success with Atrial Fib.

    Your wife should have been on Coumadin a long time ago. She
    is at risk for clots.

    Why not try a cardioversion? Are you confident in her
    cardiologist?

    Larry

    Don Payette said:

    My wife has been diagnosed with Atrial Fibrillation. She
    just had an EchoCardioGram and the operator told her that
    her heart looked healthy except for the definite AFib.

    She has been on Coreg, but the side effects have been bad.
    She has gained 30 pounds in 3 months and doesn't sleep
    well. Weird dreams etc. Her cardiologist said he could
    prescribe other drugs, but she probably would be similarly
    disappointed. He is suggesting a catheter ablation, a
    pacemaker and Coumadin (sp?).

    I noticed one thread in this group that said a pacemaker
    is no help for AFib.

    Comments?

    -----------
    Don Payette Unisys Corporation I speak only for myself;
    not my employer Please reply in the newsgroup. Don't try
    sending e-mail.

  5. He said that cardioversion is rarely successful in
    patients who have had AFib for a long time (over 3 years
    for my wife).

    She has avoided Coumadin since, as she puts it, it is
    basically rat poison.

    We found the doctor through naspe.orgnaspe.org, the Heart
    Rhythm Society (Dr. Stephen Ehrlich, in Mission Viejo, CA).
    Any recommendations for another doctor?

    Larry said:

    Ablation has shown limited success with Atrial Fib.

    Your wife should have been on Coumadin a long time ago. She
    is at risk for clots.

    Why not try a cardioversion? Are you confident in her
    cardiologist?

    Larry

    Don Payette said:

    My wife has been diagnosed with Atrial Fibrillation. She
    just had an EchoCardioGram and the operator told her that
    her heart looked healthy except for the definite AFib.

    She has been on Coreg, but the side effects have been
    bad. She has gained 30 pounds in 3 months and doesn't
    sleep well. Weird dreams etc. Her cardiologist said he
    could prescribe other drugs, but she probably would be
    similarly disappointed. He is suggesting a catheter
    ablation, a pacemaker and Coumadin (sp?).

    I noticed one thread in this group that said a pacemaker
    is no help for AFib.

    Comments?

    -----------
    Don Payette Unisys Corporation I speak only for myself;
    not my employer Please reply in the newsgroup. Don't try
    sending e-mail.

    -----------
    Don Payette Unisys Corporation I speak only for myself; not
    my employer Please reply in the newsgroup. Don't try
    sending e-mail.

  6. Can you recommend someone in the Mission Viejo, CA area?

    What is an alternative to the pacemaker / ablation?

    Dr. Andrew B. Chung said:
    Don Payette said:

    My wife has been diagnosed with Atrial Fibrillation. She
    just had an EchoCardioGram and the operator told her that
    her heart looked healthy except for the definite AFib.

    She has been on Coreg, but the side effects have been
    bad. She has gained 30 pounds in 3 months and doesn't
    sleep well. Weird dreams etc. Her cardiologist said he
    could prescribe other drugs, but she probably would be
    similarly disappointed. He is suggesting a catheter
    ablation, a pacemaker and Coumadin (sp?).

    I noticed one thread in this group that said a pacemaker
    is no help for AFib.

    Comments?

    Coreg is really not that good for controlling the heart
    rate of those who are in atrial fibrillation. Most people
    with atrial fibrillation do not need either ablation or a
    pacemaker. For these reasons, would suggest you have your
    wife seek a second opinion.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    -----------
    Don Payette Unisys Corporation I speak only for myself; not
    my employer Please reply in the newsgroup. Don't try
    sending e-mail.

  7. Dr. Chung,

    Would you review the following and give me your comments?
    It's a study by the Mayo Clinic called:

    Heart block with Pacemaker is Safe Treatment for Atrial
    Fibrillation

    mayoclinic.org821.html

    Dr. Andrew B. Chung said:
    Don Payette said:

    My wife has been diagnosed with Atrial Fibrillation. She
    just had an EchoCardioGram and the operator told her that
    her heart looked healthy except for the definite AFib.

    She has been on Coreg, but the side effects have been
    bad. She has gained 30 pounds in 3 months and doesn't
    sleep well. Weird dreams etc. Her cardiologist said he
    could prescribe other drugs, but she probably would be
    similarly disappointed. He is suggesting a catheter
    ablation, a pacemaker and Coumadin (sp?).

    I noticed one thread in this group that said a pacemaker
    is no help for AFib.

    Comments?

    Coreg is really not that good for controlling the heart
    rate of those who are in atrial fibrillation. Most people
    with atrial fibrillation do not need either ablation or a
    pacemaker. For these reasons, would suggest you have your
    wife seek a second opinion.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    -----------
    Don Payette Unisys Corporation I speak only for myself; not
    my employer Please reply in the newsgroup. Don't try
    sending e-mail.

  8. On Tue, 04 May 2004 10:25:21 -0700, Don Payette <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    She has avoided Coumadin since, as she puts it, it is
    basically rat poison.


    I think your wife is very unwise to make her own decision
    about Coumadin. A stroke is a devastating thing. People
    should stop talking about this medication as "rat poison".
    It causes bleeding in large doses (which I believe is what
    happens to kill the rats) but the doses for people at risk
    of stroke are controlled and checked on a regular basis so
    that the INR reading is within the required limits. Most
    people experience no side-effects from this drug. Diana

  9. Can't give you one in CA, but does he agree with her
    assessment of Coumadin?

    Larry

    Don Payette said:

    He said that cardioversion is rarely successful in
    patients who have had AFib for a long time (over 3 years
    for my wife).

    She has avoided Coumadin since, as she puts it, it is
    basically rat poison.

    We found the doctor through naspe.orgnaspe.org, the
    Heart Rhythm Society (Dr. Stephen Ehrlich, in Mission
    Viejo, CA). Any recommendations for another doctor?

    Larry said:

    Ablation has shown limited success with Atrial Fib.

    Your wife should have been on Coumadin a long time ago.
    She is at risk for clots.

    Why not try a cardioversion? Are you confident in her
    cardiologist?

    Larry

    Don Payette said:

    My wife has been diagnosed with Atrial Fibrillation. She
    just had an EchoCardioGram and the operator told her that
    her heart looked healthy except for the definite AFib.

    She has been on Coreg, but the side effects have been
    bad. She has gained 30 pounds in 3 months and doesn't
    sleep well. Weird dreams etc. Her cardiologist said he
    could prescribe other drugs, but she probably would be
    similarly disappointed. He is suggesting a catheter
    ablation, a pacemaker and Coumadin (sp?).

    I noticed one thread in this group that said a pacemaker
    is no help for AFib.

    Comments?

    -----------
    Don Payette Unisys Corporation I speak only for myself;
    not my employer Please reply in the newsgroup. Don't try
    sending e-mail.

    -----------
    Don Payette Unisys Corporation I speak only for myself;
    not my employer Please reply in the newsgroup. Don't try
    sending e-mail.

  10. You should take her to someone at Scripps in SD or to
    someone at UCLA in
    LA.

    Larry

    Don Payette said:

    Can you recommend someone in the Mission Viejo, CA area?

    What is an alternative to the pacemaker / ablation?

    "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"

    Quoted message said:
    Don Payette said:

    My wife has been diagnosed with Atrial Fibrillation. She
    just had an EchoCardioGram and the operator told her that
    her heart looked healthy except for the definite AFib.

    She has been on Coreg, but the side effects have been
    bad. She has gained 30 pounds in 3 months and doesn't
    sleep well. Weird dreams etc. Her cardiologist said he
    could prescribe other drugs, but she probably would be
    similarly disappointed. He is suggesting a catheter
    ablation, a pacemaker and Coumadin (sp?).

    I noticed one thread in this group that said a pacemaker
    is no help for AFib.

    Comments?

    Coreg is really not that good for controlling the heart
    rate of those who are in atrial fibrillation. Most people
    with atrial fibrillation do not need either ablation or a
    pacemaker. For these reasons, would suggest you have your
    wife seek a second opinion.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    -----------
    Don Payette Unisys Corporation I speak only for myself;
    not my employer Please reply in the newsgroup. Don't try
    sending e-mail.

  11. Don Payette said:


    He said that cardioversion is rarely successful in
    patients who have had AFib for a long time (over 3 years
    for my wife).

    If your wife's heart is truly structurally normal, it may
    still be worth a try.

    Quoted message said:

    She has avoided Coumadin since, as she puts it, it is
    basically rat poison.

    In the amounts given for stroke prevention, it would not
    poison a rat (dose scaled down to proportion of course :-).

    Quoted message said:

    We found the doctor through naspe.orgnaspe.org, the
    Heart Rhythm Society (Dr. Stephen Ehrlich, in Mission
    Viejo, CA). Any recommendations for another doctor?

    I would suggest using the AMA web site for a local search
    for a general cardiologist.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    What is all this about?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    Is this spam?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

  12. Don Payette said:

    Dr. Chung,

    Would you review the following and give me your comments?
    It's a study by the Mayo Clinic called:

    Heart block with Pacemaker is Safe Treatment for Atrial
    Fibrillation

    mayoclinic.org821.html

    Three comments:

    (1) It is dated.

    (2) Benefit is relief of symptoms only *when*
    medications fail.

    (3) Survival does not take into account peri-procedural
    complications.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    What is all this about?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    Is this spam?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

  13. Larry said:

    Do AV node ablations always result in pacer dependency?

    Larry

    If successful (ie permanent), the answer is "yes."

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    What is all this about?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    Is this spam?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

  14. Oliver Costich said:

    On 07 May 2004 00:07:08 GMT, [email hidden]

    (Complex592) said:

    In a person with a long life ahead of them why would you
    want to do an AV node ablation and cause them to be pacer
    dependent for the rest of their life.

    Current studies today indicate that there is no diffence
    in mortality in those patients with persistant atrial
    fibrillation with rate control and those patients with
    rhythm control meaning conversion to sinus rhythm.

    For many there is a significant quality of life
    difference.

    Correct.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:


    One other thing. Atrial fib begets atrial fib. The longer
    the patient is in atrial fib the less chance that long
    term conversion is going to be able to be maintained.

    In a symptomatic young person the Dr's generally do an
    echo or /tee make sure that there are non vegetations
    and the heart is structurally normal. Three years is a
    long time but they might try a shot of electrical
    cardioversion or chemical for that matter. If this is
    unsuccessful they usually go with rate control.
    Pulmonary vien ablation is being done in really
    symtomatic uncontrolled atrial fibrillation patients but
    not unless it is really extreme from the info and
    lectures I have heard.

    Pulmonary vein ablation is reserved for extreme case, in
    part because you have to puncture the septum to do it.
    There is an RF ablation procedure that is used in less
    extreme cases.

    The pulmonary vein ablation is an RF ablation (with septal
    puncture).

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    What is all this about?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    Is this spam?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

  15. I don't know if it was an A/V ablation, but my Dad had an
    ablation that corrected AFlutter, and did not need a
    pacemaker.

    Larry

    Dr. Andrew B. Chung said:
    Larry said:

    Do AV node ablations always result in pacer dependency?

    Larry

    If successful (ie permanent), the answer is "yes."

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

    ** Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    What is all this about?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    Is this spam? makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

  16. MD/PhD said:
    Oliver Costich said:

    On 07 May 2004 00:07:08 GMT, [email hidden]

    (Complex592) said:

    In a person with a long life ahead of them why would you
    want to do an AV node ablation and cause them to be
    pacer dependent for the rest of their life.

    Current studies today indicate that there is no diffence
    in mortality in those patients with persistant atrial
    fibrillation with rate control and those patients with
    rhythm control meaning conversion to sinus rhythm.

    For many there is a significant quality of life
    difference.

    Correct.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:


    One other thing. Atrial fib begets atrial fib. The
    longer the patient is in atrial fib the less chance that
    long term conversion is going to be able to be
    maintained.

    In a symptomatic young person the Dr's generally do an
    echo or /tee make sure that there are non vegetations
    and the heart is structurally normal. Three years is a
    long time but they might try a shot of electrical
    cardioversion or chemical for that matter. If this is
    unsuccessful they usually go with rate control.
    Pulmonary vien ablation is being done in really
    symtomatic uncontrolled atrial fibrillation patients
    but not unless it is really extreme from the info and
    lectures I have heard.

    Pulmonary vein ablation is reserved for extreme case, in
    part because you have to puncture the septum to do it.
    There is an RF ablation procedure that is used in less
    extreme cases.

    The pulmonary vein ablation is an RF ablation (with septal
    puncture).

    My intention was to indicate that it's not the only one.
    There are others that are less complex that sometimes work.

    Do you have a success rate estimate for the older EPS +
    RF ablation
    w/o AV node ablation?

    Quoted message said:

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

  17. Larry said:

    I don't know if it was an A/V ablation, but my Dad had an
    ablation that corrected AFlutter, and did not need a
    pacemaker.

    Then your father did not have an (accidental) AVN ablation.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    What is all this about?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    Is this spam?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

  18. Larry said:

    I don't know if it was an A/V ablation, but my Dad had an
    ablation that corrected AFlutter, and did not need a
    pacemaker.

    Larry

    I have a pacemaker for slow heart beat due to sick sinus
    syndrome. A few weeks later, I was diagnosed with
    AFlutter and SVT's, neither of which could be controlled
    by my pacemaker

    E

    remove those pesky SPOTTEDELEPHANTS to reply

  19. Oliver Costich said:

    On Fri, 07 May 2004 12:45:21 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung,

    MD/PhD said:
    Oliver Costich said:

    On 07 May 2004 00:07:08 GMT, [email hidden]
    (Complex592) wrote:

    >In a person with a long life ahead of them why would
    >you want to do an AV node ablation and cause them to
    >be pacer dependent for the rest of their life.
    >
    >Current studies today indicate that there is no
    >diffence in mortality in those patients with
    >persistant atrial fibrillation with rate control and
    >those patients with rhythm control meaning conversion
    >to sinus rhythm.

    For many there is a significant quality of life
    difference.

    Correct.

    Quoted message said:


    >
    >One other thing. Atrial fib begets atrial fib. The
    >longer the patient is in atrial fib the less chance
    >that long term conversion is going to be able to be
    >maintained.
    >
    > In a symptomatic young person the Dr's generally do
    > an echo or /tee make sure that there are non
    > vegetations and the heart is structurally normal.
    > Three years is a long time but they might try a shot
    > of electrical cardioversion or chemical for that
    > matter. If this is unsuccessful they usually go with
    > rate control. Pulmonary vien ablation is being done
    > in really symtomatic uncontrolled atrial fibrillation
    > patients but not unless it is really extreme from the
    > info and lectures I have heard.

    Pulmonary vein ablation is reserved for extreme case,
    in part because you have to puncture the septum to do
    it. There is an RF ablation procedure that is used in
    less extreme cases.

    The pulmonary vein ablation is an RF ablation (with
    septal puncture).

    My intention was to indicate that it's not the only
    one. There are others that are less complex that
    sometimes work.

    Do you have a success rate estimate for the older EPS + RF
    ablation
    w/o AV node ablation?

    This varies widely depending on the skill of the
    electrophysiologist, which I am not. I have heard quotes
    ranging from 75% to as high as 90%.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    What is all this about?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    Is this spam?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.