Atkins diet evolving

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:33:56 -0600, "Jon" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I just watched a special on FitTV on the
Atkins diet presented by Physicians who are employed at the Atkins Center.

The are not recommending meat that is high in saturated fat and cholesterol
anymore and want people who start induction to eat meat and fish instead.

Yep, they are doing whatever it takes to get out of the financial mess
they are in. They'll probably tell you anything you want to hear if it
boosts their sales.That's all their company is about, money!
If people believed everything the advertisers old us, we would all be
living in complete chaos. Just wait till the start using (almost)
nakedness to sell their diet like many of the alcohol and cigarette
companies do. Camel cigs are doing that right now. This is one of
the main reasons that medical care should be provided to everyone at
no cost to the person, like in other countries. That would eliminate
much of the lies they tell people in order to sell more drugs, because
doctors get bonuses based on the amount of drugs they prescribe.
Atkins made lots of money at first, until people wised up. Supposedly
they are in bankruptcy now, but they sure the heck are not living in
poverty. In the end, just what do you believe of what they say?

An alternative view of this evolution might be as follows:

As more time goes by, more research comes back. With more research,
comes better understanding of the how and why of the efficacy of the
lifestyle. As knowledge increases, some things are likely to be
supported, while some things are likely to be found false. Thus,
revision.

That said, I suspect there could be some more sinister alterior motive.

-Hollywood.

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:33:56 -0600, "Jon" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I just watched a special on FitTV on the
Atkins diet presented by Physicians who are employed at the Atkins Center.

The are not recommending meat that is high in saturated fat and cholesterol
anymore and want people who start induction to eat meat and fish instead.

Yep, they are doing whatever it takes to get out of the financial mess
they are in. They'll probably tell you anything you want to hear if it
boosts their sales.That's all their company is about, money!
If people believed everything the advertisers old us, we would all be
living in complete chaos. Just wait till the start using (almost)
nakedness to sell their diet like many of the alcohol and cigarette
companies do. Camel cigs are doing that right now. This is one of
the main reasons that medical care should be provided to everyone at
no cost to the person, like in other countries. That would eliminate
much of the lies they tell people in order to sell more drugs, because
doctors get bonuses based on the amount of drugs they prescribe.
Atkins made lots of money at first, until people wised up. Supposedly
they are in bankruptcy now, but they sure the heck are not living in
poverty. In the end, just what do you believe of what they say?

"An alternative view of this evolution might be as follows:

As more time goes by, more research comes back. With more research,
comes better understanding of the how and why of the efficacy of the
lifestyle. As knowledge increases, some things are likely to be
supported, while some things are likely to be found false. Thus,
revision. "

Dr. Atkins evolved and changed the diet himself over time too as more
research and info became available For example, in his latest books
there was more focus on using healthy fats and oils for cooking. He
also introduced the net carb idea relatively recently, which was a big
change from his work of 25 years ago. Plus, I fail to see how changing
recommendations on eating meats high in saturated fat and cholesterol
has any sinister motive from Atkins Nutritionals behind it. Anyone
replacing a steak is likely to substitute chicken, fish, etc, not any
of the Atkins Nutritional products.

I'm also a little confused by the OP stating that the Drs he saw on
FitTv were from the Atkins Center. Atkins did use that name, but I
believe Atkins Nutritionals only uses Atkins Nutritionals as it's
corporate name now? Plus the Atkins Foundation donated a substantial
amount of money this year to found an Atkins Center at a hospital,
don't remember which one. So, it's not clear to me from the OP post as
to where exactly these Drs are from.

Jon said:

I just watched a special on FitTV on the
Atkins diet presented by Physicians who are employed at the Atkins Center.

The are not recommending meat that is high in saturated fat and cholesterol
anymore and want people who start induction to eat meat and fish instead.

Note the wording. "Not recommending" is not "recommending not".
The plan is UNCHANGED in this regard. Read the old announcements
on the Atkins website again. A year or so ago this was a big
splash but it's old news at this point. Either that show was
a repeat or FitTV doesn't stay current.

Here's what happened:

The folks at the clinic counted the saturated fats that people
actually eating Atkins food ate. The result was a number like
15%. Since the foods the people were actually eating was fine,
the Atkins Center came out with an endorsement of that level.
The press, being a bunch of fools with no prior knowledge of
nutrition, decided to reduce that to their standard
meaningless sound-bite.

Rather than a sound bite with meaning:

Atkins Center endorses eating Atkins approved food, notices
typical saturated fat count is 15%.

The press deleted the meaning and came out with a false bite:

Atkins Center endorses lower saturated fat intake.

It went from endorsing what At-kids were eating of their own
accord to sounding like a change in the plan when that was
never the case.

Then again, if you have the idiotic view that Atkins means
eating bacon at every meal, and you don't want to read any
of those nasty book things to find out what Atkins really
is (like the reporters involved it would seem) then being
told to target 15% is actually a move in the right
direction. Folks who *do* read those nasty book things end
up near 15% just by following the directions, so if you
completely ignore the directions then targetting 15% is
less bad than unrestrained foolishness. Still seems like
the hard away around to me, though. Folks who don't work
with their head end up working with their back ...

Quoted message said:

Dr. Atkins evolved and changed the diet himself over time too as more
research and info became available For example, in his latest books
there was more focus on using healthy fats and oils for cooking.

Early on he was too busy fighting against the low
fat hysteria to get into the details of what types of
fats. Whether he knew about fat types or not, there
was much work to defeat the anti-fat fad before
further detail could make it into the message. So
I view this as a strategic change on Dr A's part.
Fight today's battle today. Tomorrow when you have
some degree of victory, start filling in the gaps.

So earlier versions endorsed fat and pointed out the
failings of the anti-fat movement. Then as versions
came out they dicussed trans-fats, then types of
essential fatty acids.

Quoted message said:

He
also introduced the net carb idea relatively recently, which was a big
change from his work of 25 years ago.

If you compare the changes in how carb counts work in
addition to the different schedules of carb counts,
this turns out to be the largest change in what is
eatned during Induction from 1972 through 2002.

Quoted message said:

Plus, I fail to see how changing
recommendations on eating meats high in saturated fat and cholesterol
has any sinister motive from Atkins Nutritionals behind it. Anyone
replacing a steak is likely to substitute chicken, fish, etc, not any
of the Atkins Nutritional products.

They don't have a financial incentive on the topic.
Agreed.

Quoted message said:

I'm also a little confused by the OP stating that the Drs he saw on
FitTv were from the Atkins Center. Atkins did use that name, but I
believe Atkins Nutritionals only uses Atkins Nutritionals as it's
corporate name now? Plus the Atkins Foundation donated a substantial
amount of money this year to found an Atkins Center at a hospital,
don't remember which one. So, it's not clear to me from the OP post as
to where exactly these Drs are from.

Or the show was an old one getting repeated and the Atkins
Center was the one where Dr A walked to work in the
morning.

Or the folks on FitTV weren't as much aware of the word
meanings as the folks on ASDLC and they got it wrong.

"Early on he was too busy fighting against the low
fat hysteria to get into the details of what types of
fats. Whether he knew about fat types or not, there
was much work to defeat the anti-fat fad before
further detail could make it into the message."

I don't think it was an issue of being too busy fighting the low fat
hysteria. He certainly could have put a few pages in his book
discussing healthy vs unhealthy fats. That wouldn't have taken much
time at all. The fact is thirty years ago there was little focus by
anyone on which fats and oils were healthy and which ones were bad. In
that time frame, for example, trans fat was not widely acknowledged to
be bad. Today even doctors and researchers that disagree with LC,
acknowledge that trans fat is harmful. Most of that has only come to
the forefront now from new research and info that wasn't available or
focused on by anyone thirty years ago.

Jon said:

I just watched a special on FitTV on the
Atkins diet presented by Physicians who are employed at the Atkins Center.

The are not recommending meat that is high in saturated fat and cholesterol
anymore and want people who start induction to eat meat and fish instead.

Even the "Gods of Food" USDA are changing a little on what they now
argue are the ingredients of a "good diet".

In "Atkins for Life" (2003) Dr. Atkins (pages 56-57) stated:

"Although they have been deamonized in recent decades, there is
absolutely no need to avoid foods that contain saturated fats, which is
not to say that we recommend you overconsume them....(Positive aspects
of saturated fats listed such as cell membrane function.)...... There
are about 22 grams of fat in a 3.6 ounce pork chop, for instance, of
which only 8 grams are saturated fat: 10 grams are monounsaturated fat
and the rest are polyunsaturated fat. You should always eat a balance of
different types of natural fats."

I wasn't able to find this "balance" statement readily in "New Diet
Revolution".... and maybe it wasn't there at the time DANDR was written.

As others have pointed out, it would be most natural to expect an
intelligent diet guru to modify or incorporate newer findings as they
come along, or to eventually explain things in a clearer or better way,
even if there were no real fundamantal change in the basic plan.

Jim
--
1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book
2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book
3) Don't Diet Without Supplimental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins
book
4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other)

jbuch <jbuch@CUT_HERE.revealed.net> wrote:
:> Even the "Gods of Food" USDA are changing a little on what they now
:> argue are the ingredients of a "good diet".
:>
:> In "Atkins for Life" (2003) Dr. Atkins (pages 56-57) stated:
:>
:>
:> "Although they have been deamonized in recent decades, there is
:> absolutely no need to avoid foods that contain saturated fats, which
:> is
:> not to say that we recommend you overconsume them....(Positive
:> aspects
:> of saturated fats listed such as cell membrane function.)...... There
:> are about 22 grams of fat in a 3.6 ounce pork chop, for instance, of
:> which only 8 grams are saturated fat: 10 grams are monounsaturated
:> fat
:> and the rest are polyunsaturated fat. You should always eat a
:> balance of different types of natural fats."

Some people believe that all the fat in beef is sat fat....this is one
advantage of calorie counting using a tool such as fitday...you can get a
clear read on the amount & type of fat in foods.

Roger Zoul said:

jbuch <jbuch@CUT_HERE.revealed.net> wrote:
:> Even the "Gods of Food" USDA are changing a little on what they now
:> argue are the ingredients of a "good diet".
:>
:> In "Atkins for Life" (2003) Dr. Atkins (pages 56-57) stated:
:>
:>
:> "Although they have been deamonized in recent decades, there is
:> absolutely no need to avoid foods that contain saturated fats, which
:> is
:> not to say that we recommend you overconsume them....(Positive
:> aspects
:> of saturated fats listed such as cell membrane function.)...... There
:> are about 22 grams of fat in a 3.6 ounce pork chop, for instance, of
:> which only 8 grams are saturated fat: 10 grams are monounsaturated
:> fat
:> and the rest are polyunsaturated fat. You should always eat a
:> balance of different types of natural fats."

Some people believe that all the fat in beef is sat fat....this is one
advantage of calorie counting using a tool such as fitday...you can get a
clear read on the amount & type of fat in foods.

When it comes to food, it is amazing what some people believe.

The experience of eating food everyday does not translate into any real
food knowledge or expertise.

Even overeating daily doesn't stuff you full of food knowledge.

--
1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book
2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book
3) Don't Diet Without Supplimental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins
book
4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other)