Atkins and CABG

Quoted message said:

Subject: Atkins and CABG
From: [email hidden] (PSCM USCGR)
Date: 8/15/2003 12:06 PM Mountain Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

What are the opinions as far as a CABGx4 patient going on the Atkins diet 1
year after the bypass? I have had a heck of a time keeping my wieght down so
I
tried Atkins. After 4 weeks of a no more than 20 grams of carbs a day....I'm
down to 198 pounds...from 225. I feel good and I look much healthier and my
cholesterol is down to 150. I did not tell my cardiologist last time I saw
him,
but he looked at my bloodwork and was thrilled with the results. I hate to
tell
him and then have him get all upset becuase he does not approve. I don't plan
on staying on this diet for more than another month, but I was curious as to
what the general opinion is of Atkins and heart bypass patients. My
echocardiogram(sp) showed and LVEF of 55% which I think is pretty good for a
guy who had a quadruple bypass at age 47. Any opinions? Should I get off the
diet?

Thanks

The diet may be working due to the fact you are unable to manage carbohydrates.
They have shown even though what 'they' thought is 'normal' iron STORES .. when
they lowered the iron DOWN to *NID / near iron deficiency* the body is NOW able
to manage the carbohydrates.

So ..is the UNDERLYING cause of your heart problems .. iron .. ?

Dr. Jerome Sullivan proposed iron to destroy the heart .. and has been telling
everyone this for over thirty years.

Just thought I'd mention.

**However, at NID, there was a 40%-55% improvement (P = 0.05-0.0001) of both
fasting and glucose-stimulated plasma insulin concentrations, and
near-normalization of serum alanine aminotransferase activity **

Gastroenterology 2002 Apr;122(4):931-9 Related Articles, Links

Effect of iron depletion in carbohydrate-intolerant patients with clinical
evidence of nonalcoholic fatty liver disease.

Facchini FS, Hua NW, Stoohs RA.
Department of Medicine, University of California San Francisco and San
Francisco General Hospital, San Francisco, California, USA. [email hidden]
BACKGROUND & AIMS: Increased body iron, genetic hemochromatosis (GH) mutations,
and nonalcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) tend to cluster in
carbohydrate-intolerant patients. In an attempt to further clarify the
interrelationships among these conditions, we studied 42
carbohydrate-intolerant patients who were free of the common GH mutations C282Y
and H63D, and had a serum iron saturation lower than 50%. METHODS: We measured
body iron stores, and induced iron depletion to a level of near-iron deficiency
(NID) by quantitative phlebotomy. RESULTS: In the 17 patients with clinical
evidence of NAFLD, we could not demonstrate supranormal levels of body iron
(1.6 +/- 0.2 vs. 1.4 +/- 0.2 g; P = 0.06). However, at NID, there was a 40%-55%
improvement (P = 0.05-0.0001) of both fasting and glucose-stimulated plasma
insulin concentrations, and near-normalization of serum alanine
aminotransferase activity (from 61 +/- 5 to 32 +/- 2 IU/L; P < 0.001).
CONCLUSIONS: These results reflect the insulin-sparing effect of iron depletion
and indicate a key role of iron and hyperinsulinemia in the pathogenesis of
NAFLD.
PMID: 11910345 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Who loves ya.
Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

Jim Chinnis said:

[email hidden] (PSCM USCGR) wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

What are the opinions as far as a CABGx4 patient going on the Atkins diet 1
year after the bypass? I have had a heck of a time keeping my wieght down so I
tried Atkins. After 4 weeks of a no more than 20 grams of carbs a day....I'm
down to 198 pounds...from 225. I feel good and I look much healthier and my
cholesterol is down to 150. I did not tell my cardiologist last time I saw him,
but he looked at my bloodwork and was thrilled with the results. I hate to tell
him and then have him get all upset becuase he does not approve. I don't plan
on staying on this diet for more than another month, but I was curious as to
what the general opinion is of Atkins and heart bypass patients. My
echocardiogram(sp) showed and LVEF of 55% which I think is pretty good for a
guy who had a quadruple bypass at age 47. Any opinions? Should I get off the
diet?

My opinion is that Atkin's low-carb diet can be done without adding saturated
fat. I did a tempered Atkin's type diet, but increased protein with lean meat,
fish, and some soy products. I increased fat with olive oil and by eating
fatty fish. I increased both by adding nuts (mostly almonds) to my diet. I did
not cut out any but starchy vegetables.

I lost weight with ease, felt good, and my lipids improved a great deal.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

Sounds like you may not have ever had hyperketonemia since you were eating
vegetables. This would not really be Atkin's where ketones are emphasized.

Hyperketonemia is not a good idea for someone with coronary disease. Use Google to
pull up past discussions on this topic.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

PSCM USCGR said:

What are the opinions as far as a CABGx4 patient going on the Atkins diet 1
year after the bypass? I have had a heck of a time keeping my wieght down so I
tried Atkins. After 4 weeks of a no more than 20 grams of carbs a day....I'm
down to 198 pounds...from 225. I feel good and I look much healthier and my
cholesterol is down to 150. I did not tell my cardiologist last time I saw him,
but he looked at my bloodwork and was thrilled with the results. I hate to tell
him and then have him get all upset becuase he does not approve. I don't plan
on staying on this diet for more than another month, but I was curious as to
what the general opinion is of Atkins and heart bypass patients. My
echocardiogram(sp) showed and LVEF of 55% which I think is pretty good for a
guy who had a quadruple bypass at age 47. Any opinions? Should I get off the
diet?

Thanks

You should tell your cardiologist. It is likely he will want to check your hsCRP
level to check the reality of the decreased serum cholesterol.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

Quoted message said:

Subject: Atkins and CABG
From: [email hidden] (PSCM USCGR)
Date: 8/15/2003 12:06 PM Mountain Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

What are the opinions as far as a CABGx4 patient going on the Atkins diet 1
year after the bypass? I have had a heck of a time keeping my wieght down so
I
tried Atkins. After 4 weeks of a no more than 20 grams of carbs a day....I'm
down to 198 pounds...from 225. I feel good and I look much healthier and my
cholesterol is down to 150. I did not tell my cardiologist last time I saw
him,
but he looked at my bloodwork and was thrilled with the results. I hate to
tell
him and then have him get all upset becuase he does not approve. I don't plan
on staying on this diet for more than another month, but I was curious as to
what the general opinion is of Atkins and heart bypass patients. My
echocardiogram(sp) showed and LVEF of 55% which I think is pretty good for a
guy who had a quadruple bypass at age 47. Any opinions? Should I get off the
diet?

This came off another newsgroup ..

Quoted message said:

Atkins dieters risk cancer, heart and bone problems
By Mark Henderson, Science Correspondent

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-775878,00.html

FOLLOWERS of the high-fat Atkins diet are gambling with their
health at unknowable odds, a leading nutritionist said yesterday.
The regime, in which dieters swap fruit, bread and pasta for
steak and a full English breakfast, has started a slimming revolution. But
it is based on pseudoscience and may be harmful, according to Susan Jebb, of
the Medical Research Council Human Nutrition Research Centre in Cambridge.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/profiles/susan_jebb.shtml

quote:
************************
Dr. Susan A. Jebb BSc, PhD, SRD

Susan Jebb obtained a degree in nutrition and State Registration in
Dietetics from the University of Surrey before moving to Cambridge
where she was awarded her doctorate in 1990.

She is currently Head of Nutrition and Health research at the Medical
Research Council Human Nutrition Research (HNR) centre in Cambridge.
Her research focuses on the role of nutrition in obesity and its
related diseases. In addition she is Deputy Chair of the UK
Association for the Study of Obesity.

Susan is a regular contributor to media features on nutrition and
health and also acts as an advisor to a variety of food,
pharmaceutical and biotechnology companies
********************************

She is Deputy Chair of the UK Association for the Study of Obesity.

http://www.aso.org.uk/members/index.htm

She is an independent consultant to Rosemary Conley Diet and Fitness
Clubs

http://www.conley.co.uk/franchise/executive.asp

She is consultant to Tanita Corporation. Pharmaceutical supply
company.

http://www.tanita.co.uk/profile.cfm

------------------------------------------------

Who loves ya.
Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

(PSCM USCGR) said:

What are the opinions as far as a CABGx4 patient going on the Atkins diet 1
year after the bypass? I have had a heck of a time keeping my wieght down so I
tried Atkins. After 4 weeks of a no more than 20 grams of carbs a day....I'm
down to 198 pounds...from 225. I feel good and I look much healthier and my
cholesterol is down to 150. I did not tell my cardiologist last time I saw him,
but he looked at my bloodwork and was thrilled with the results. I hate to tell
him and then have him get all upset becuase he does not approve. I don't plan
on staying on this diet for more than another month, but I was curious as to
what the general opinion is of Atkins and heart bypass patients. My
echocardiogram(sp) showed and LVEF of 55% which I think is pretty good for a
guy who had a quadruple bypass at age 47. Any opinions? Should I get off the
diet?

Thanks

According to my son in law who is a Doctor, when you resume your
normal diet, that overwhelming odds are that you will regain your
weight plus a couple of pounds. But at least you won't be in Ketosis
anymore 🙂

Bob

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

PSCM USCGR said:

What are the opinions as far as a CABGx4 patient going on the Atkins diet 1
year after the bypass? I have had a heck of a time keeping my wieght down so I
tried Atkins. After 4 weeks of a no more than 20 grams of carbs a day....I'm
down to 198 pounds...from 225. I feel good and I look much healthier and my
cholesterol is down to 150. I did not tell my cardiologist last time I saw him,
but he looked at my bloodwork and was thrilled with the results. I hate to tell
him and then have him get all upset becuase he does not approve. I don't plan
on staying on this diet for more than another month, but I was curious as to
what the general opinion is of Atkins and heart bypass patients. My
echocardiogram(sp) showed and LVEF of 55% which I think is pretty good for a
guy who had a quadruple bypass at age 47. Any opinions? Should I get off the
diet?

Thanks

You should tell your cardiologist. It is likely he will want to check your hsCRP
level to check the reality of the decreased serum cholesterol.

I thought you once told me checking CRP in a bypass patient wasn't of
any real significance. Is hsCRP a different test than CRP?

Mel

Speak to your cardiologist about atkins. I too am on atkins for life and have
told my cardiologist. He said that was great. But you should tell your
doctor.

Jenny in NY with electric now

1024Bytes said:

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 19:19:59 -0400, Bob Cardone

cardone1!@!mindspring.com said:

(PSCM USCGR) said:

What are the opinions as far as a CABGx4 patient going on the Atkins diet 1
year after the bypass? I have had a heck of a time keeping my wieght down so I
tried Atkins. After 4 weeks of a no more than 20 grams of carbs a day....I'm
down to 198 pounds...from 225. I feel good and I look much healthier and my
cholesterol is down to 150. I did not tell my cardiologist last time I saw him,
but he looked at my bloodwork and was thrilled with the results. I hate to tell
him and then have him get all upset becuase he does not approve. I don't plan
on staying on this diet for more than another month, but I was curious as to
what the general opinion is of Atkins and heart bypass patients. My
echocardiogram(sp) showed and LVEF of 55% which I think is pretty good for a
guy who had a quadruple bypass at age 47. Any opinions? Should I get off the
diet?

Thanks

According to my son in law who is a Doctor, when you resume your
normal diet, that overwhelming odds are that you will regain your
weight plus a couple of pounds. But at least you won't be in Ketosis
anymore 🙂

Bob

The problem with this premise is that "when you resume your normal
diet" is a bad goal. "Your normal diet (at least mine and other
once-fat people I know) was full of [censored] that led to overweight. The
goal should be to *never* return to your normal diet.

The Atkins diet includes a plan for reintroducing carbs in larger
amounts once you have reached a rational weight. Virtually every study
of every diet I have ever read about shows that if any formerly fat
person resumes the diet that made them fat they will regain their
weight plus a lot of pounds. But it's not only the studies that show
that. My own experience shows that, and I have watched dieters resume
their former diet and former heavy weight for all of my 53 years.

You want a fool proof diet that works? Cut out junk food, highly
refined food, and eat lots of veggies, fruits, whole grains and lean
protein and eat fewer calories than you burn per day. You are
guaranteed to use. Exercise every day and one of the best exercises
is the "push away from the table" .

Bob

[email hidden] (M. Schwartz) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

PSCM USCGR said:

What are the opinions as far as a CABGx4 patient going on the Atkins diet 1
year after the bypass? I have had a heck of a time keeping my wieght down so I
tried Atkins. After 4 weeks of a no more than 20 grams of carbs a day....I'm
down to 198 pounds...from 225. I feel good and I look much healthier and my
cholesterol is down to 150. I did not tell my cardiologist last time I saw him,
but he looked at my bloodwork and was thrilled with the results. I hate to tell
him and then have him get all upset becuase he does not approve. I don't plan
on staying on this diet for more than another month, but I was curious as to
what the general opinion is of Atkins and heart bypass patients. My
echocardiogram(sp) showed and LVEF of 55% which I think is pretty good for a
guy who had a quadruple bypass at age 47. Any opinions? Should I get off the
diet?

Thanks

You should tell your cardiologist. It is likely he will want to check your hsCRP
level to check the reality of the decreased serum cholesterol.

I thought you once told me checking CRP in a bypass patient wasn't of
any real significance. Is hsCRP a different test than CRP?

Mel

Yes, hsCRP is different.

Checking hsCRP is worthwhile primarily if you believe it may change
what you are currently doing.

A high hsCRP would not be a good thing for a bypass patient.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com

"Carmen " <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hi,
On 17-Aug-2003, [email hidden] (Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You should tell your cardiologist. It is likely he will want to
check your hsCRP level to check the reality of the decreased serum
cholesterol.

I thought you once told me checking CRP in a bypass patient wasn't
of any real significance. Is hsCRP a different test than CRP?

Mel

Yes, hsCRP is different.

Checking hsCRP is worthwhile primarily if you believe it may change
what you are currently doing.

A high hsCRP would not be a good thing for a bypass patient.

I have to wonder at the real worth of hsCRP levels as a diagnostic or
prognostic tool. If a person regularly walks or jogs it'll rise, the
test itself is highly variable for the same person in a short time span,
and someone like me would never even *get* the test based upon blood
lipid profile. The blood lipid profile is heavily weighted, yet half of
those suffering a CV event have cholesterol levels within the
recommended parameters. I regularly walk for miles almost every day, my
hsCRP may well be elevated, but with a TC of 160, LDL of 81, an HDL of
65 and tris at 62 it's not going to be checked. BTW, that's a marked
improvement from 4.5 years ago, when TC was 154 and HDL was 34 and tris
were over 200 - or is it? That's my beef with this test, and blood
lipid tests as well. Even the test results are not much more than a
pinhole in the wall between us and our understanding of the root causes
of CVD.
Blood lipid levels aren't much of a crystal ball for the patient's
future. Too high levels are associated with CVD. Too low levels are
associated with anemia, depression and blood vessel blowouts. Where
does the real value lie in these tests for the diagnosticians and the
people they serve?

Take care,
Carmen

Interesting we have the same LDL level of 81 but I lag with an HDL of
38. My TC is 133 and Triglycerides is 65.

I am walking more and expect the next test to show a better HDL level.

Blood vessel blowouts? Too low levels? Can you be more specific about
blood vessel blowouts and what is too low levels?

Mel

"Carmen " <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hi,
On 17-Aug-2003, [email hidden] (Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You should tell your cardiologist. It is likely he will want to
check your hsCRP level to check the reality of the decreased serum
cholesterol.

I thought you once told me checking CRP in a bypass patient wasn't
of any real significance. Is hsCRP a different test than CRP?

Mel

Yes, hsCRP is different.

Checking hsCRP is worthwhile primarily if you believe it may change
what you are currently doing.

A high hsCRP would not be a good thing for a bypass patient.

I have to wonder at the real worth of hsCRP levels as a diagnostic or
prognostic tool. If a person regularly walks or jogs it'll rise,

It shouldn't from regular exercise. Actually, it should decrease.

Quoted message said:

the
test itself is highly variable for the same person in a short time span,
and someone like me would never even *get* the test based upon blood
lipid profile. The blood lipid profile is heavily weighted, yet half of
those suffering a CV event have cholesterol levels within the
recommended parameters.

Yes, if the lipid profile is checked soon after the CV event, it will
tend to be lower than the baseline *before* the event. It is the
higher baseline that is associated with increased CV risk.

Quoted message said:

I regularly walk for miles almost every day, my
hsCRP may well be elevated, but with a TC of 160, LDL of 81, an HDL of
65 and tris at 62 it's not going to be checked.

If you have a CV event despite the favorable lipid profile, your hsCRP
should be checked, imo. If high in this setting, your doctor should be
aggressively addressing the reason(s) for the elevation.

Quoted message said:

BTW, that's a marked
improvement from 4.5 years ago, when TC was 154 and HDL was 34 and tris
were over 200 - or is it?

It is provided hsCRP is low.

Quoted message said:

That's my beef with this test, and blood
lipid tests as well. Even the test results are not much more than a
pinhole in the wall between us and our understanding of the root causes
of CVD.

One can see alot through a pinhole. Simply ask you local peeping tom
:-)

Quoted message said:

Blood lipid levels aren't much of a crystal ball for the patient's
future.

It is a pretty good pinhole. See the Framingham Heart Study.

Quoted message said:

Too high levels are associated with CVD. Too low levels are
associated with anemia, depression and blood vessel blowouts.

Here the clinical findings for overall poor health (emaciation,
cachexia, chronic illnesses) is more telling than the lipid profile.

Quoted message said:

Where
does the real value lie in these tests for the diagnosticians and the
people they serve?

Take care,
Carmen

They are useful when applied with some thought.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Blood lipid levels aren't much of a crystal ball for the patient's
future.

It is a pretty good pinhole. See the Framingham Heart Study.

I've looked at the Framingham Study quite a bit, and I am struck but the rather
low correlation coefficients for many of the purported risk factors. I seem to
recall that one of the highest correlation coefficients was 77% between risk and
the TC/HDL, and the correlation coefficient for atherosclerois and TC was
something like 36%. Those original plots must have had a lot of random scatter,
and it isn't clear if some of the "correlation" was due to a failure to pull out
other risk factors that are associated with "poor" diet.

I'd sure like to believe the conclusions of that study -- my TC/HDL is ~2.36.

....and on the other extreme...
http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm

I guess I'll continue with my simple formula: exercise a lot, and eat with
moderation.

In article <[email hidden]>,

H.W. Stockman' stockman3@earth-REMOVE_THIS-link.net said:

I guess I'll continue with my simple formula: exercise a lot, and eat with
moderation.

You can't do that. That makes too much sense.