ASO + money

need more sun said:

For those who doubt that ASO's big motivation is money, they charged
journalists working on last year's Tour 700-odd euros for internet
access.. nice one guys... Every other race provides free wifi and,
usually, free phone lines too.

Whatever about what you feel about the UCI, this shows that ASO are
motivated primarily by cash. You don't rip off those who are writing
about your event and thus giving you publicity. That's a bad policy,
and one which probably didn't help their case in the long run.

OK, I don't know about the rest of Europe, but there is almost no WiFi
access in France outside of Paris.
Even hotels charge 20 Euros an hour for Wifi access. That is about the
same as the charge for monthly continuous use.
Since the above hotel quote was for Orange service, it seems quite
possible that Orange provided the Wifi access and ASO was just passing
along their ridiculous rates.

-ilan

ilan said:

need more sun said:

For those who doubt that ASO's big motivation is money, they charged
journalists working on last year's Tour 700-odd euros for internet
access.. nice one guys... Every other race provides free wifi and,
usually, free phone lines too.

Quoted message said:

Whatever about what you feel about the UCI, this shows that ASO are
motivated primarily by cash. You don't rip off those who are writing
about your event and thus giving you publicity. That's a bad policy,
and one which probably didn't help their case in the long run.

OK, I don't know about the rest of Europe, but there is almost no WiFi
access in France outside of Paris.
Even hotels charge 20 Euros an hour for Wifi access. That is about the
same as the charge for monthly continuous use.
Since the above hotel quote was for Orange service, it seems quite
possible that Orange provided the Wifi access and ASO was just passing
along their ridiculous rates.

-ilan

The following gives the current Orange WiFi rates. It's 70 Euros for
20 hours of coverage a month:
http://www.orange-wifi.com/offre_abo_BE.htm

-ilan

ilan said:

need more sun said:

For those who doubt that ASO's big motivation is money, they charged
journalists working on last year's Tour 700-odd euros for internet
access.. nice one guys... Every other race provides free wifi and,
usually, free phone lines too.

Quoted message said:

Whatever about what you feel about the UCI, this shows that ASO are
motivated primarily by cash. You don't rip off those who are writing
about your event and thus giving you publicity. That's a bad policy,
and one which probably didn't help their case in the long run.

OK, I don't know about the rest of Europe, but there is almost no WiFi
access in France outside of Paris.
Even hotels charge 20 Euros an hour for Wifi access. That is about the
same as the charge for monthly continuous use.
Since the above hotel quote was for Orange service, it seems quite
possible that Orange provided the Wifi access and ASO was just passing
along their ridiculous rates.

-ilan

But ASO has considerable sponsorship deals...and Orange was an
Official Partner in 2006! For that relationship to exist and the press
to be charged makes no sense at all. It's an organiser exploiting
their position as the biggest race in the world. Given that the race
was founded by journalists, that's unacceptable.

* "need more sun" <[email hidden]> a écrit

Quoted message said:

For those who doubt that ASO's big motivation is money, they charged
journalists working on last year's Tour 700-odd euros for internet
access.. nice one guys... Every other race provides free wifi and,
usually, free phone lines too.

Whatever about what you feel about the UCI, this shows that ASO are
motivated primarily by cash. You don't rip off those who are writing
about your event and thus giving you publicity. That's a bad policy,
and one which probably didn't help their case in the long run.

It's a sellers market though

--
Le vent à Dos
Davey Crockett [No 4Q to reply]

* "ilan" <[email hidden]> a écrit

Quoted message said:

ilan said:

need more sun said:

For those who doubt that ASO's big motivation is money, they charged
journalists working on last year's Tour 700-odd euros for internet
access.. nice one guys... Every other race provides free wifi and,
usually, free phone lines too.

Quoted message said:

Whatever about what you feel about the UCI, this shows that ASO are
motivated primarily by cash. You don't rip off those who are writing
about your event and thus giving you publicity. That's a bad policy,
and one which probably didn't help their case in the long run.

OK, I don't know about the rest of Europe, but there is almost no WiFi
access in France outside of Paris.
Even hotels charge 20 Euros an hour for Wifi access. That is about the
same as the charge for monthly continuous use.
Since the above hotel quote was for Orange service, it seems quite
possible that Orange provided the Wifi access and ASO was just passing
along their ridiculous rates.

-ilan

The following gives the current Orange WiFi rates. It's 70 Euros for
20 hours of coverage a month:
http://www.orange-wifi.com/offre_abo_BE.htm

-ilan

I had Wanadoo/Orange

The poorest excuse for an ISP can not be found anywhere in the World

I switched to Free.fr and am (reasonably) happy

--
Le vent à Dos
Davey Crockett [No 4Q to reply]

* "need more sun" <[email hidden]> a écrit

Quoted message said:

ilan said:

need more sun said:

For those who doubt that ASO's big motivation is money, they charged
journalists working on last year's Tour 700-odd euros for internet
access.. nice one guys... Every other race provides free wifi and,
usually, free phone lines too.

Quoted message said:

Whatever about what you feel about the UCI, this shows that ASO are
motivated primarily by cash. You don't rip off those who are writing
about your event and thus giving you publicity. That's a bad policy,
and one which probably didn't help their case in the long run.

OK, I don't know about the rest of Europe, but there is almost no WiFi
access in France outside of Paris.
Even hotels charge 20 Euros an hour for Wifi access. That is about the
same as the charge for monthly continuous use.
Since the above hotel quote was for Orange service, it seems quite
possible that Orange provided the Wifi access and ASO was just passing
along their ridiculous rates.

-ilan

But ASO has considerable sponsorship deals...and Orange was an
Official Partner in 2006! For that relationship to exist and the press
to be charged makes no sense at all. It's an organiser exploiting
their position as the biggest race in the world. Given that the race
was founded by journalists, that's unacceptable.

Strike a blow for Freedom then

Don't watch it

--
Le vent à Dos
Davey Crockett [No 4Q to reply]
The News CNN and Sky won't show you
http://azurservers.com:8080

On Feb 26, 5:35 pm, Davey Crockett <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

* "need more sun" <[email hidden]> a écrit

Quoted message said:

For those who doubt that ASO's big motivation is money, they charged
journalists working on last year's Tour 700-odd euros for internet
access.. nice one guys... Every other race provides free wifi and,
usually, free phone lines too.

Quoted message said:

Whatever about what you feel about the UCI, this shows that ASO are
motivated primarily by cash. You don't rip off those who are writing
about your event and thus giving you publicity. That's a bad policy,
and one which probably didn't help their case in the long run.

It's a sellers market though

--
Le vent à Dos
Davey Crockett [No 4Q to reply]

It is, you are right..but it also shows that ASO are not as driven by
the good of the sport as they say that they are.

That drive to make cash also raises another question. If ASO get their
way and have a lot more say about who gets a wildcard slot and who
doesn't, who's to say that wildcard teams won't end up paying hello
money to get in? As a commercial company, is this behind their
insistence that there are more such teams?

Tinkoff got into the Giro despite some questionable riders/a very
short history as a team. Does this mean backhanders were paid there?
I'm not saying they were or they were not, but the question needs
asking.

need more sun said:

Tinkoff got into the Giro despite some questionable riders/a very
short history as a team. Does this mean backhanders were paid there?
I'm not saying they were or they were not, but the question needs
asking.

Which "questionable riders"? Hamilton, for example? He did his time. Sure,
Puerto brings up new issues with him, but the whole Puerto case lacks any
substance so far. You can't destroy a rider's career on no evidence.

There's a nice story on Tinkoff in the latest CycleSport. Tinkoff is an
accomplished rider, and rides with the team during some of their training rides.
Cycling needs more cyclists in high positions. Tinkoff is a very positive
influence on the sport.

Dan

On Feb 26, 5:38 pm, Davey Crockett <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

* "ilan" <[email hidden]> a écrit

Quoted message said:

ilan said:

On Feb 26, 4:15 pm, "need more sun" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> For those who doubt that ASO's big motivation is money, they charged
> journalists working on last year's Tour 700-odd euros for internet
> access.. nice one guys... Every other race provides free wifi and,
> usually, free phone lines too.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Whatever about what you feel about the UCI, this shows that ASO are
> motivated primarily by cash. You don't rip off those who are writing
> about your event and thus giving you publicity. That's a bad policy,
> and one which probably didn't help their case in the long run.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

OK, I don't know about the rest of Europe, but there is almost no WiFi
access in France outside of Paris.
Even hotels charge 20 Euros an hour for Wifi access. That is about the
same as the charge for monthly continuous use.
Since the above hotel quote was for Orange service, it seems quite
possible that Orange provided the Wifi access and ASO was just passing
along their ridiculous rates.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

-ilan

Quoted message said:

The following gives the current Orange WiFi rates. It's 70 Euros for
20 hours of coverage a month:
http://www.orange-wifi.com/offre_abo_BE.htm

Quoted message said:

-ilan

I had Wanadoo/Orange

The poorest excuse for an ISP can not be found anywhere in the World

I switched to Free.fr and am (reasonably) happy

--
Le vent à Dos
Davey Crockett [No 4Q to reply]

As an ISP, Wanadoo is not too bad, for example, Noos (which was just
given 6 weeks notice by the government
to address users' complaints) is worse. I have Orange for my mobile
phone, and they still haven't been able to figure
out why I can' t make calls in North America, despite having all the
permissions. When I asked the technician on
the phone whether they make ongoing reports for such things, so that
they will be able to resolve them, he had
no clue what I was even talking about. However with some of the other
mobile phone companies, you can even receive
call in North America, except for New York City and Los Angeles.

-ilan

On Feb 26, 6:16 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>

Quoted message said:

need more sun said:

Tinkoff got into the Giro despite some questionable riders/a very
short history as a team. Does this mean backhanders were paid there?
I'm not saying they were or they were not, but the question needs
asking.

Which "questionable riders"? Hamilton, for example? He did his time. Sure,
Puerto brings up new issues with him, but the whole Puerto case lacks any
substance so far. You can't destroy a rider's career on no evidence.

There's a nice story on Tinkoff in the latest CycleSport. Tinkoff is an
accomplished rider, and rides with the team during some of their training rides.
Cycling needs more cyclists in high positions. Tinkoff is a very positive
influence on the sport.

Dan

Well, you have Hamilton, linked to Operacion Puerto. And Hondo,
currently under suspension. Who are the other big names? There are a
few up and coming riders, but what justifies them being picked over
Selle Italia who have a long history in the Giro?

(Or Unibet, for that matter, but that's down to the ProTour battle).

Re Tinkoff being a positive influence, he was keen to sign Jan Ullrich
too, according to previous reports. In a time when cycling is trying
to clean itself up re doping, the team have been doing the opposite
and have been chasing or signing riders with question marks over
them.

Other teams have strict ethical codes but the RCS selections appear to
show that the most important thing is not to have a clean image or
ethical stance, but instead to invite the Giro organiser to a lavish
pre-season team launch and court favours.

"ilan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

need more sun said:

For those who doubt that ASO's big motivation is money, they charged
journalists working on last year's Tour 700-odd euros for internet
access.. nice one guys... Every other race provides free wifi and,
usually, free phone lines too.

Whatever about what you feel about the UCI, this shows that ASO are
motivated primarily by cash. You don't rip off those who are writing
about your event and thus giving you publicity. That's a bad policy,
and one which probably didn't help their case in the long run.

OK, I don't know about the rest of Europe, but there is almost no WiFi
access in France outside of Paris.
Even hotels charge 20 Euros an hour for Wifi access. That is about the
same as the charge for monthly continuous use.
Since the above hotel quote was for Orange service, it seems quite
possible that Orange provided the Wifi access and ASO was just passing
along their ridiculous rates.

It should also be stated that everyone and his brother are claiming to be
"journalists" so that they can get all the best locations, freebies, etc.
for the tour. Charging something like that does separate the wheat from the
chaff.

* "need more sun" <[email hidden]> a écrit

Quoted message said:

On Feb 26, 5:35 pm, Davey Crockett <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

* "need more sun" <[email hidden]> a écrit

Quoted message said:

For those who doubt that ASO's big motivation is money, they charged
journalists working on last year's Tour 700-odd euros for internet
access.. nice one guys... Every other race provides free wifi and,
usually, free phone lines too.

Quoted message said:

Whatever about what you feel about the UCI, this shows that ASO are
motivated primarily by cash. You don't rip off those who are writing
about your event and thus giving you publicity. That's a bad policy,
and one which probably didn't help their case in the long run.

It's a sellers market though

--
Le vent à Dos
Davey Crockett [No 4Q to reply]

It is, you are right..but it also shows that ASO are not as driven by
the good of the sport as they say that they are.

That drive to make cash also raises another question. If ASO get their
way and have a lot more say about who gets a wildcard slot and who
doesn't, who's to say that wildcard teams won't end up paying hello
money to get in? As a commercial company, is this behind their
insistence that there are more such teams?

Davey believes in Laissez-Faire Economics

It will find its own equilibrium

Besides, its ASO's party - they should be able to invite whomever they
like

Quoted message said:

Tinkoff got into the Giro despite some questionable riders/a very
short history as a team. Does this mean backhanders were paid there?
I'm not saying they were or they were not, but the question needs
asking.

Oleg Tinkov is a Nouveau Riche Robber Baron

Do you really believe he doesn't know how to grease Squeaky Wheels?

Or to add a little something to Angelo's Pension Fund?

Quoted message said:

--
Le vent à Dos
Davey Crockett [No 4Q to reply]
The News CNN and SKY won't show you
http://azurservers.com:8080

Quoted message said:

Well, you have Hamilton, linked to Operacion Puerto. And Hondo,
currently under suspension. Who are the other big names? There are a
few up and coming riders, but what justifies them being picked over
Selle Italia who have a long history in the Giro?

Better riders, I suspect.

Quoted message said:

(Or Unibet, for that matter, but that's down to the ProTour battle).

Re Tinkoff being a positive influence, he was keen to sign Jan Ullrich
too, according to previous reports. In a time when cycling is trying
to clean itself up re doping, the team have been doing the opposite
and have been chasing or signing riders with question marks over
them.

Again, Ullrich's been charged with nothing sufficient to justify a loss of
career. You can't flush people on flimsy inference. Let the Spanish deliver
the evidence, and then I'll criticize teams for dealing with Ullrich.

Quoted message said:

Other teams have strict ethical codes but the RCS selections appear to
show that the most important thing is not to have a clean image or
ethical stance, but instead to invite the Giro organiser to a lavish
pre-season team launch and court favours.

Axing people without evidence is hardly my definition of "ethics".

Dan

Tom Kunich' cyclintom@yahoo. com said:

"ilan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

need more sun said:

For those who doubt that ASO's big motivation is money, they charged
journalists working on last year's Tour 700-odd euros for internet
access.. nice one guys... Every other race provides free wifi and,
usually, free phone lines too.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Whatever about what you feel about the UCI, this shows that ASO are
motivated primarily by cash. You don't rip off those who are writing
about your event and thus giving you publicity. That's a bad policy,
and one which probably didn't help their case in the long run.

Quoted message said:

OK, I don't know about the rest of Europe, but there is almost no WiFi
access in France outside of Paris.
Even hotels charge 20 Euros an hour for Wifi access. That is about the
same as the charge for monthly continuous use.
Since the above hotel quote was for Orange service, it seems quite
possible that Orange provided the Wifi access and ASO was just passing
along their ridiculous rates.

It should also be stated that everyone and his brother are claiming to be
"journalists" so that they can get all the best locations, freebies, etc.
for the tour. Charging something like that does separate the wheat from the
chaff.

To do that for the Tour is pretty much impossible, though.. It's not
as easy as you suggest, by any means. ASO are very strict about
accreditations, notoriously so. And budgets can be tight, especially
for internet media..paying 700 euro per journalist for the 'privilege'
of covering ASO's race cuts down on the coverage the race gets.

Also, for non-cycling mainstream media outlets such as those in the
US, deciding perhaps to cover the race after the Armstrong years have
ended, being told that you have to pay 700 euro per journalist isn't
going to go down well at all.

It's an arrogant move by ASO, basically.

* "ilan" <[email hidden]> a écrit

Quoted message said:

As an ISP, Wanadoo is not too bad, for example, Noos (which was just
given 6 weeks notice by the government
to address users' complaints) is worse. I have Orange for my mobile
phone, and they still haven't been able to figure
out why I can' t make calls in North America, despite having all the
permissions. When I asked the technician on
the phone whether they make ongoing reports for such things, so that
they will be able to resolve them, he had
no clue what I was even talking about. However with some of the other
mobile phone companies, you can even receive
call in North America, except for New York City and Los Angeles.

When I had Wanadoo, there were no phones - except the FTelecom
Landline for 15€

There were no binary UseNet NewsGroups and no TV unless you paid
additional

The service techs were useless

You got a dynamic IP address

You got no nameserver - like to run your own domain as I do now

You got no reverse DNS

Port 25 was blocked

You had so many plugs pluged onto plugs on your phone outlet that you
knocked the whole cockeyed mess apart if you happened to walk too
closely

And the whole shabby deal cost around 75€ a month if you wanted TV

And they never could get the TV feed to work which is basically when I
told them to shove it

Now I have everything and can call any fixed phone for free in the
civilized world and cell phones too in US and Canada

Plus a nice 40GB hard drive on the TV decoder accessible from my
computer via FTP as well as for recording off the TV feed

And in addition to the 09 Free.fr phone number, I kept my old FT
number, both nicely listed in the annuaire along with a contact email
address

The Free router is a bit Mickey mouse though and to do anything
worthwhile you have to open up the DMZ which means the firewalls have
to be pretty finely tuned

Although I understand that Orange now is offering lower prices, folks
are still quitting in droves

So if you ever consider changing, Free.fr is the way to go

--
Le vent à Dos
Davey Crockett [No 4Q to reply]
The News CNN and SKY won't show you
http://azurservers.com:8080

need more sun said:

It's an arrogant move by ASO, basically.

it IS an arrogant move, but it has nothing to do with the current
dispute with the UCI, which is also about money, but not about the
cost of Wifi.

Davey Crockett said:

I had Wanadoo/Orange

The poorest excuse for an ISP can not be found anywhere in the World

T-Online.

You can´t beat that.

need more sun said:

Well, you have Hamilton, linked to Operacion Puerto.

Dumbass -

Hamilton's already done 2 years. The Puerto thing is for the same
offense for which, as stated, he's already served his time.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

need more sun said:

Well, you have Hamilton, linked to Operacion Puerto.

Dumbass -

Hamilton's already done 2 years. The Puerto thing is for the same
offense for which, as stated, he's already served his time.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

dumbass,

it's not the same offense. he was suspended for a positive test.

there was no mention of puerto at that time (which only involves
suspicin of doping). for him to claim it's the same offense he would
have to admit to doping, which he hasn't done.

in the case of hamilton it alleges (ie. the faxes and calendar) that
he bought EPO from fuentes the year he was on CSC and won LBL, pre-
phonak.