article on putting on races

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Kind of near:

http://truesport.com/Bike/2006/news/merwin051106.html

dumbass,

all those issues are relevent, but it's been the same story for what 30
(50? 100?) years ?

these issues (peeing in public, milling around on an open road, yellow
line violations) are all addressed in the rules. the officials have to
be 1) given the power to enforce them or 2) be asked to enforce them.

in our region we've been fining riders for infractions, and it's been
working *extremely* well. this gives the rules some teeth and we've
seen a huge drop in many of the perennial problems. most riders are
very for it too, because they don't want to lose thier races and they
want the rules fairly enforced.

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kind of near:

http://truesport.com/Bike/2006/news/merwin051106.html

Thanks for posting this. I agree with most of what he said but have a
problem with the changing clothes in the parking lot comment. I think that
promoters need to do a better job of providing a changing area. If an
adequate area was provided he would have a point but I can't remember the
last time I saw a place to change at a race. Promoters know that people
drive long distances to the races, and that a lot of people are at the race
for the whole day, so a changing area is certainly appropriate.

And yes, I do volunteer at races and always thank the organizers.

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kind of near:

http://truesport.com/Bike/2006/news/merwin051106.html

I've seen the very same thing here in California. In fact on one century I
watched people stop, walk around a tree and urinate on the ground in plain
view from the picture window of the house owner whose property they were on!

I've given up on believing that there will ever be a group of racing cyclist
that have one brain cell between them.

amit said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Kind of near:

http://truesport.com/Bike/2006/news/merwin051106.html

dumbass,

all those issues are relevent, but it's been the same story for what 30
(50? 100?) years ?

these issues (peeing in public, milling around on an open road, yellow
line violations) are all addressed in the rules. the officials have to
be 1) given the power to enforce them or 2) be asked to enforce them.

in our region we've been fining riders for infractions, and it's been
working *extremely* well. this gives the rules some teeth and we've
seen a huge drop in many of the perennial problems. most riders are
very for it too, because they don't want to lose thier races and they
want the rules fairly enforced.

Well, if the sport depends on organizers and officials also being
cops (if people are fining riders for public urination then that's
the role they are playing) then it is time to walk away and not
look back. Speaking for myself, if that's where we are then I'm
outta here. If we can't expect people to uphold minimum standards
of decency without an authority figure watching over them then wtf?

Bob Schwartz

Bob Schwartz said:

Well, if the sport depends on organizers and officials also being
cops (if people are fining riders for public urination then that's
the role they are playing) then it is time to walk away and not
look back. Speaking for myself, if that's where we are then I'm
outta here. If we can't expect people to uphold minimum standards
of decency without an authority figure watching over them then wtf?

dumbass,

obviously not. if someone does one of those "evil" things (peeing,
swearing, littering, and I'm sure you've seen them all) and they face
no penalty, what incentive do they have not to do it again? your
officials sound toothless.

if a rider swore at an official or volunteer here they would be fined
$100-150.

even UCI officials have to cite protour racers and managers for these
types of things.

On 05/13/2006 07:41 PM, in article
[email hidden], "Tom Kunich"

Quoted message said:

I've given up on believing that there will ever be a group of racing cyclist
that have one brain cell between them.

Which would still be one more brain cell than you.

--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot flahute dot com [foreword] slash

On Sun, 14 May 2006 01:41:36 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I've seen the very same thing here in California. In fact on one century I
watched people stop, walk around a tree and urinate on the ground in plain
view from the picture window of the house owner whose property they were on!

We had a guy pee against a light post in an open parking lot in
Columbia, MD - when the security cop talked to him via the
loudspeaker, he damn near died. I think for a second he thought the
post was complaining.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Bob Schwartz said:

Well, if the sport depends on organizers and officials also being
cops (if people are fining riders for public urination then that's
the role they are playing) then it is time to walk away and not
look back. Speaking for myself, if that's where we are then I'm
outta here. If we can't expect people to uphold minimum standards
of decency without an authority figure watching over them then wtf?

This regular issue pretty much illustrates my single rule about
bike racing: Bike racing is all about finding a place to pee.

(Same for training, if you do long training rides. A side effect
of sprawl is not just that it increases car traffic, but that it gets
hard to find a place to disappear discreetly off the road anymore.)

Seriously, from someone who regularly baits the self-indulgence
of Masters Fatties, are you surprised that sometimes bike racers
place their own convenience above regular standards of public
behavior? Even non-racers do it in public sometimes. Okay,
usually it's at night and they're drunk, but being drunk and
being focused on racing lead to similar lack of awareness of
the outside world. It ain't right, but it ain't surprising.

I blame the fad for proper hydration, anyway. In the
good old days when coaches made riders do long rides
and races on a single waterbottle, I bet there was less
public urination.

Ben
The USCF should sponsor a competition for somebody to invent
a way to unify the registration line and the portapotty line.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for posting this. I agree with most of what he said but have a
problem with the changing clothes in the parking lot comment. I think

that

Quoted message said:

promoters need to do a better job of providing a changing area. If an
adequate area was provided he would have a point but I can't remember the
last time I saw a place to change at a race. Promoters know that people
drive long distances to the races, and that a lot of people are at the

race

Quoted message said:

for the whole day, so a changing area is certainly appropriate.

This is an excerpt from someone's 600K ride report, from Arizona:

Thankfully, this was all the "issues" I faced and I made the 45 miles back
to CG in 2:05! Woo Hoo! I finished at 3:05 am for a total of 23:05, even
with the 20 minute cable repair.

So, this should be a wonderful capper to a long ride, right? Well, no. I'll
give you a little background info on the parking situation at the ride
start/finish. It's in a parking area off a side road in CG. There are
buildings surrounding this area except for an alley in the back. There are
no store fronts. I was parked there and when I arrived, I had my truck
parked like I usually do. It was angled so that I could open the opposing
doors and stand between them to change my clothes. I was totally blocked
from anyone's view, except for the alley.

As I was changing, I noticed a fire department vehicle go by the street a
couple times. I didn't think anything of it. I just assumed they were
patrolling the area. So, I proceeded to change and just when I removed my
shorts and was starting to put my underwear on, the fire vehicle appears
from the alley. I immediately threw a towel around myself. He stopped behind
my truck and asked what I was doing. I told him that I had just finished a
long bike ride and was changing my clothes. He sat back there for about a
minute. I was putting my clothes on and was going to go back and talk to him
and explain the situation. He left before I was fully dressed. I figured,
okay, I'm going to go find some fast food place to get a burger.

I pulled out of the parking lot and passed him sitting in another lot a
couple blocks down. I figured he was just keeping an eye on me. I pulled
into a Whataburger and was followed by screeching cop cars (yes, that is
plural). A lady cop came up to the truck and was asking me about the
incident. I explained to her as best I could what transpired. She took my
license and came back in a few minutes. She kept saying something about
taking me to jail and charging me as a sexual predator because of what I
did. She said it would be on my record for life. She was convinced that I'd
be convicted because I admitted to changing my clothes and there was a fire
captain who witnessed it. I again tried to explaining the situation, what I
did, why I did it, and the precautions I took to keep myself hidden. She
finally let me go with a warning.

While I was sitting there talking to her, I couldn't believe it was
happening. I still don't know how she came up with the sexual predator
thing. I can maybe understand indecent exposure. But given the
circumstances - at 3 am, in a totally deserted, pitch black parking lot,
with me hovering between my doors for shelter, and him sneaking around the
alley to see me, it's a stretch.

All in all, it was a great, albeit, very eventful day!

Bob Schwartz said:

Quoted message said:

dumbass,

Quoted message said:

It's really that simple? On race day, with a million things to
attend to, organizers and officials have time for that [censored],
on top of everything else?

dumbass,

true, that's why we prioritize. when things are not busy and you see
someone breaking a rule it's easy to note their number and their
penalty appears in the race communique. it's that simple. you won't nab
everyone, but it sends a message that rules are being enfoced and if
you break them you risk a fine. it works EXTREMELY well.

Quoted message said:

There are no my-word-against-yours urine baths? No bitterness
and hard feelings over getting hit with a big fine over something
(in the perp's mind) so minor?

well the fine for peeing or littering might be $20, for more serious
offences it would be more. you're even fined $10 if you don't report
that you DNF'd to an official. you're making someone's job harder and
therefore you're penalized for it.

initally it's hard to take, but you very quickly get almost full
conformity.

Quoted message said:

But if other people don't mind having to be cops in addition to
everything else that goes into putting on a race, so be it.

each rule is there for a reason. the official's job is to enforce the
rules. just as there are rules about helmets and jerseys, there are
rules about rider conduct.

"Steven L. Sheffield" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 05/13/2006 07:41 PM, in article
[email hidden], "Tom Kunich"

Quoted message said:

I've given up on believing that there will ever be a group of racing
cyclist
that have one brain cell between them.

Which would still be one more brain cell than you.

Steven, you've more than once shown what a great racer you are. That's why
we always listen to what you have to say.

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:fcRag.1682$>

Quoted message said:

Steven, you've more than once shown what a great racer you are. That's why
we always listen to what you have to say.

You get me hot when you talk like that

On 05/17/2006 08:44 PM, in article
[email hidden], "Tom Kunich"

Quoted message said:

"Steven L. Sheffield" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 05/13/2006 07:41 PM, in article
[email hidden], "Tom Kunich"

Quoted message said:

I've given up on believing that there will ever be a group of racing
cyclist
that have one brain cell between them.

Which would still be one more brain cell than you.

Steven, you've more than once shown what a great racer you are. That's why
we always listen to what you have to say.

Like most people, my intellect really has nothing to do with my athleticism
or lack thereof.

Your intellect is apparently correlative with your racing ability, which you
demonstrate on a near daily basis.

--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot flahute dot com [foreword] slash

"Steven L. Sheffield" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 05/17/2006 08:44 PM, in article

Like most people, my intellect really has nothing to do with my
athleticism
or lack thereof.

Steven, I understand you get [censored] when I rag on people. But you seem to
miss that I only do that to people who are doing the same thing.

Quoted message said:

Your intellect is apparently correlative with your racing ability, which
you
demonstrate on a near daily basis.

Funny you don't say that to Henry.