Article on coastdown tests

"William Higley, Sr." <[email hidden]> kirjoitti viestissä
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So if I read this correctly, it is possible to enhance the performance of

a

Quoted message said:

BiGHA by having a speedier, lighter, svelte bike following in behind it 🙂

William Higley, Sr. Vision R-50 RANS Rocket

Any bike ( or any object) behind BiGHA probably either enhances or worsens its performance,
depending on its distance and direction from BiGHA provided the distance is about 0-2 bikelengths.

The F1-racing car example applies strictly to F1 only. If the first object are not streamlined
enough then the object behind probably worsens its performance. So the competitor, who is already
good, has it easier to continue to be good 🙁

Strange, isn't it?

How to to position oneself in a competing /cooperating group may be a bit more successful with the
help of drag science and experimenting.

optimistx said:

'My bike weighs a lot'

Is it a Bigh...aaarrgh! Stop garrotting me!

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
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"Mark Leuck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I upgraded to a Baron from a Vision R-50 2 months ago. So far I'm at least

5

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to 6 mph faster average and maybe 5 mph higher top speed. Now some could

say

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its improved aerodynamics and a lighter bike, better tires and maybe a

more

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efficent riding position and maybe its because I'm in better shape but NO its because the thing
is EVIL!

It tempts me to go faster, I can almost hear it

"Take this corner a little harder"

"You can keep up with those DF's....try it"

"You can easily pass those DF's....try it"

"Is that the best you can do?"

STOP IT!

Now I want one even more :-(

Torben - I want it all - Scheel

optimistx said:

...
E.g. to my astonishment I read about formula F1 racing cars: the car BEHIND may decrease the air
drag in FRONT of it even 30 % by positioning itself suitably! (there was an image with
detailed curve as a function of distance made by measuring the drag so the results sounded
trustworthy)....

A similar effect may be accomplished by adding a properly designed tailbox to a bicycle.

This will also work with a large group of bicycles - which is why breakaways from the main peleton
rarely happen on flat ground in mass start road races.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> kirjoitti viestissä "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A similar effect may be accomplished by adding a properly designed tailbox to a bicycle.

This will also work with a large group of bicycles - which is why breakaways from the main peleton
rarely happen on flat ground in mass start road races.

(blushing a little)

Yes, in fact the same phenomenon, but I did not see the connection at first. Nice that you
write about it.

In fact, the increase of power needed to do a breakaway for one person is probably 10-20 % , not
something like 2-5 % (?). But if at least two riders cooperate then the breakaway is not as
difficult.They can function as tailboxes for each other in turns 🙂.

In a team of two one should consider to make one's drag such that the tailbox member gets maximum
benefit without doing unnecessary harm for the foremost. I wonder whether this has been investigated
systematically. Assumably the riders have some feeling which is good and which is bad, like natural
selection. Some birds fly in a group form like upside donwn V to mimimize drag/maximize lift, but I
assume quite safely that they have not made any wind tunnel tests or mathematical calculations.> Tom
Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

"Torben Scheel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark Leuck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I upgraded to a Baron from a Vision R-50 2 months ago. So far I'm at

least

Quoted message said:

5

Quoted message said:

to 6 mph faster average and maybe 5 mph higher top speed. Now some could

say

Quoted message said:

its improved aerodynamics and a lighter bike, better tires and maybe a

more

Quoted message said:

efficent riding position and maybe its because I'm in better shape but

NO

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

its because the thing is EVIL!

It tempts me to go faster, I can almost hear it

"Take this corner a little harder"

"You can keep up with those DF's....try it"

"You can easily pass those DF's....try it"

"Is that the best you can do?"

STOP IT!

Now I want one even more :-(

Torben - I want it all - Scheel

You will not regret it I promise. Take extra care tho that you don't talk back to the bike else
people will stare for all the wrong reasons

"Mark Leuck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I upgraded to a Baron from a Vision R-50 2 months ago. So far I'm at least 5 to 6 mph faster
average and maybe 5 mph higher top speed. Now some could say its improved aerodynamics and a
lighter bike, better tires and maybe a more efficent riding position and maybe its because I'm in
better shape but NO its because the thing is EVIL!

It tempts me to go faster, I can almost hear it

"Take this corner a little harder"

"You can keep up with those DF's....try it"

"You can easily pass those DF's....try it"

"Is that the best you can do?"

See a Lamborgini can do 55 mph but the car just doesn't like doing it, the Baron is the same way.
Damn the experts and call me crazy but this bike is evil!

Of course you are jesting somewhat, but there is a lot of truth in what you say. I am into my third
year of riding a Baron and I find that I am motivated to ride it at a higher performance level than
any other bike I have owned. When riding with others, I have experienced all the thoughts you
stated. Just as riding with faster riders motivates one to ride faster themselves, riding a high
performance bike motivates one to push themselves, and the bike, to higher levels, also.

Harry Jiles

harryo said:

"Mark Leuck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I upgraded to a Baron from a Vision R-50 2 months ago. So far I'm at least 5 to 6 mph faster
average and maybe 5 mph higher top speed. Now some could say its improved aerodynamics and a
lighter bike, better tires and maybe a more efficent riding position and maybe its because I'm
in better shape but NO its because the thing is EVIL!

It tempts me to go faster, I can almost hear it

"Take this corner a little harder"

"You can keep up with those DF's....try it"

"You can easily pass those DF's....try it"

"Is that the best you can do?"

See a Lamborgini can do 55 mph but the car just doesn't like doing it, the Baron is the same
way. Damn the experts and call me crazy but this bike is evil!

Of course you are jesting somewhat, but there is a lot of truth in what you say. I am into my
third year of riding a Baron and I find that I am motivated to ride it at a higher performance
level than any other bike I have owned. When riding with others, I have experienced all the
thoughts you stated. Just as riding with faster riders motivates one to ride faster themselves,
riding a high performance bike motivates one to push themselves, and the bike, to higher
levels, also.

The downside is that if you are riding with others on slower bikes, they are getting a better
workout than you are.

Tom Sherman - Near the confluence of the Mississippi and Rock Rivers

"harryo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

See a Lamborgini can do 55 mph but the car just doesn't like doing it,

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Baron is the same way. Damn the experts and call me crazy but this bike

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

evil!

Of course you are jesting somewhat, but there is a lot of truth in what you say. I am into my
third year of riding a Baron and I find that I am motivated to ride it at a higher performance
level than any other bike I have owned. When riding with others, I have experienced all the
thoughts you stated. Just as riding with faster riders motivates one to ride faster themselves,
riding a high performance bike motivates one to push themselves, and the bike, to higher
levels, also.

Agreed and nothing is worse than riding a high performance bike and be passed by some Lance
Armstrong wannabee.

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The downside is that if you are riding with others on slower bikes, they are getting a better
workout than you are.

Tom Sherman - Near the confluence of the Mississippi and Rock Rivers

So very true which is why I usually ride solo

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

The downside is that if you are riding with others on slower bikes, they are getting a better
workout than you are.

True, my neighbor, whom I ride with a lot and who rides a carbon Trek DF, became a much faster rider
because he is no longer able to draft off of me.

Harry Jiles

"Mark Leuck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<jdW2b.270899$YN5.185507@sccrnsc01>...

Quoted message said:

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The downside is that if you are riding with others on slower bikes, they are getting a better
workout than you are.

Tom Sherman - Near the confluence of the Mississippi and Rock Rivers

So very true which is why I usually ride solo

I don't let it stop me from riding with others. I just explain to them that there are times where I
will just have to take off and ride faster because of my natural riding rythem. On long rides it is
easy to rides sections of the ride along with slower riders, socializing and enjoying each other's
company, and yet pick up the pace and run faster during other segments. If you do this 4 or 5 miles
before a rest stop, you can regroup at the stop and ride together again, repeating before the next
stop. I just did a couple of rides this weekend riding in this manner. On both rides, I rode beside
2 upright riders taking turns pulling for each other. When we headed into the wind or rode a nice,
rolling stretch, I simply pulled away at my own pace and we regrouped at stops. You can also stop
for a bathroom break, letting them ride ahead and then catch up with them.

Harry Jiles

optimistx <[email hidden]> wrote:

: More seriously, I see the method of being able to measure air drag easily an important step in
: developing better recumbents.

So we have power meters...

--
Risto Varanka | helsinki.fihpv.htmlOpen ↗ varis at no spam please iki fi

Mark Leuck <[email hidden]> wrote:

: You will not regret it I promise. Take extra care tho that you don't talk back to the bike else
: people will stare for all the wrong reasons

Ride it here and people will just assume you have a handsfree for your n00kia.

If you think Baron is evil, try eg. Jester or some of the new, less known lowracers. Lowracers are
pretty fast! :-)

--
Risto Varanka | helsinki.fihpv.htmlOpen ↗ varis at no spam please iki fi

<[email hidden]> kirjoitti viestissä
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

optimistx <[email hidden]> wrote:

: More seriously, I see the method of being able to measure air drag

easily an

Quoted message said:

: important step in developing better recumbents.

So we have power meters...

--
Risto Varanka | helsinki.fihpv.htmlOpen ↗

Power meters?

Do you mean this could function as a power metering method, or there are commercially available
power measuring instruments for bikes? If the latter alternative, could you mention some?

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Lowracers are pretty fast! :-)

Agreed to both.

optimistx <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Power meters?

: Do you mean this could function as a power metering method, or there are commercially available
: power measuring instruments for bikes? If the latter alternative, could you mention some?

Well, I guess one could calculate power consumption too :-)

But power measuring has been available for bikes for a few years. Eg. there is SRM (hope I recalled
that correctly), they sponsor the Whitehawks too... Gym bikes and trainers often have power
measuring as well, though that has little to do with aerodynamics
:-) Unfortunately power measurement is too expensive for the
weekend athlete, but if you really need to know your power readings in order to develop better HPVs,
the story is different.

I suggest you do a google search or a few, I found a link to some comparison of different products,
though I don't have the link handy here...

M5 has been marketing their bikes for a while based on some power measurements conducted by was
it the NHPV.

--
Risto Varanka | helsinki.fihpv.htmlOpen ↗ varis at no spam please iki fi

optimistx said:

Power meters?

Do you mean this could function as a power metering method, or there are commercially available
power measuring instruments for bikes? If the latter alternative, could you mention some?

There are at least the following onboard cycle power monitoring systems:

The SRM system uses special cranks:
srm-usa.comsrm-usa.comOpen ↗

The Graber PowerTap uses a special rear hub:
graberproducts.comgraberproducts.comOpen ↗

Polar's system measures chain speed and vibration (to determine force), and then calculates power.
It's the lowest cost, but won't work with the long chains on recumbent bikes:
polar-usa.compolar bicycle power kit.htmlOpen ↗

Ergomo is one of the newest systems, and uses a special bottom bracket. Because of it's design it
can only measure power from the left crank which it doubles and then displays: ergomo.deergomo.deOpen ↗

It's also reported that Shimano will be bringing out it's own power monitoring system sometime after
the release of it's 10 speed component group.

Rick Moll

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

optimistx <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Power meters?

: Do you mean this could function as a power metering method, or there are commercially available
: power measuring instruments for bikes? If the

latter

Quoted message said:

: alternative, could you mention some?

Well, I guess one could calculate power consumption too :-)

But power measuring has been available for bikes for a few years. Eg. there is SRM (hope I
recalled that correctly), they sponsor the Whitehawks too... Gym bikes and trainers often have
power measuring as well, though that has little to do with aerodynamics
:-) Unfortunately power measurement is too expensive for the
weekend athlete, but if you really need to know your power readings in order to develop better
HPVs, the story is different.

I suggest you do a google search or a few, I found a link to some comparison of different
products, though I don't have the link handy here...

M5 has been marketing their bikes for a while based on some power measurements conducted by was it
the NHPV.

There is a rear-wheel hub called PowerTap that measures power delivered to the rear wheel. Polar, I
think makes a devices that measures power by sensing chain tension in some manner I don't
understand.

In the US, the PowerTap hub and handlebar computer sells for ~$750.

That's everything I know about the subject, but I think a search on PowerTap will reveal more.

<Chas> Haluzak Hybrid Race -- the inline wheelchair