I just finished reading Running with Lydiard. He has been in charge of the training schedules for many high profile athletes over the years that have had success internationally and have set world records.
It appears as though his schedulals do not include L4 intensitly at all. The core of his program consists of a very high volume of effort "just inside the athlete's maximum steady state". He never actually speaks of a paticular pace.
While this statement is a bit fague, it at first does imply L4 effort. But these "efforts" are between 1.5 and 2 hours. So, by definition, it is not L4, but perhaps, upper L3, no? So he must mean *whithin the athlete's maximum pace for that duration*. So, in essence, he avoids threshold efforts, it seems. But we all know that excercise near threshold is the most potent stimulus, right?
Sure - after all, keep in mind that level 4 goes all the way down to 91% of your maximal steady state/functional threshold/critical power.
Hmmm.... I have considered that point. I guess it is possible. But also, what seems most impressive, is that that train at this level for over 10 hours a week, and then another 10 hours or so of what sounds like L2 training on top of that typically done in the morning with the L4 stuff done as a 2nd workout in the afternoon. I suppose that once you have world class level of fitness, that volume is possible. Think of the TSS that accumulates.
Indeed...and look at the results Lydiard obtained.
Maybe rmur17 or beerco would care to take a stab at estimating the chronic training load that would result from training 10 h/wk at low level 4, plus another, say, 5 h/wk at mid-level 2? I haven't actually done so myself, but $20 says its between 100 and 150 TSS/d. 😉
Indeed...and look at the results Lydiard obtained.
Maybe rmur17 or beerco would care to take a stab at estimating the chronic training load that would result from training 10 h/wk at low level 4, plus another, say, 5 h/wk at mid-level 2? I haven't actually done so myself, but $20 says its between 100 and 150 TSS/d. 😉
Total ~1020 CTL ~145 (if you keep it up for at least eighteen weeks 🙂). Actually my estimate is on the low end as low level 4 IF is more likely around 0.95 or an extra 100 Tss/wk or ~14/dy (total of ~160).
That's a high chronic load but assumes you don't have any light/sick weeks in there whatsoever.
The $20 is not a sure thing unless you control your L4 efforts very strictly 😉
The $20 is not a sure thing unless you control your L4 efforts very strictly 😉
Maybe not...but you gotta admit that the correspondence between what Lydiard recommended (and few can handle) and what the optimal CTL for most people is proving to be is quite striking.
Maybe not...but you gotta admit that the correspondence between what Lydiard recommended (and few can handle) and what the optimal CTL for most people is proving to be is quite striking.
I call them "levels" and not "zones" because you don't - or at least you shouldn't - approach training with a powermeter the same way you approach training with a heart rate monitor. Specifically, when training with a powermeter you don't - or shouldn't - obsess about keeping your power in a certain range all the time. That's not the way you produce power when racing (flat TTs excepted), so training that way just makes your workouts less specific.
Lydiard talked about building a base by running day in day out at Best Aerobic Pace. Basically if you had 3 hours to run you would do it as fast as you could. If you had less time you would run faster. Seeing he advocated a lot of running on tracks in the hills I wouldn't take it as being against L4 efforts. The main thing he was against was large amounts of anaerobic efforts.
Lydiard talked about building a base by running day in day out at Best Aerobic Pace. Basically if you had 3 hours to run you would do it as fast as you could. If you had less time you would run faster. Hamish Ferguson Cycling Coach
Yes, exactly what I was thinking! So, if you are running between 1.5 and 2 hour runs, you are probably in level 3, e[font='Times New Roman']specially if you are doing this every day, don't you think? I could probably ride for 1.5 hours at the very bottom of level 4, but it would hurt. And I certainly could not do this ride every day for 3 months. I'm thinking that his base building phase is comprised of runs at the level 2/3 border. Later in his schedules, he definitely prescribes level 4 and 5 efforts (10K and 5K time trials), one to two times per week. But apparently not in his base period.[/font]
I'm thinking that his base building phase is comprised of runs at the level 2/3 border.
It sounds more like its on the border between levels 3 and 4 to me...but anyway:
yzfrr11 said:
Later in his schedules, he definitely prescribes level 4 and 5 efforts (10K and 5K time trials), one to two times per week. But apparently not in his base period.[/font]
So the title that you gave this thread is incorrect?
More than anything else, it seems to me that Lydiard recommended doing the vast majority of your training squarely in the "sweet spot"...
More than anything else, it seems to me that Lydiard recommended doing the vast majority of your training squarely in the "sweet spot"...
Sweet spot for sure. Lydiard was a major proponent of putting in a huge base at close to your maximum endurance pace most days (~75-90% HR max depending on recovery).
He was definitely not a multi-tier type coach, which is the kind of program most cyclists tend to follow.
He also said that a runner could be 98% of his best near the end of the 3-6 month base period, without ever having done a single anaerobic effort.
Racing bikes has got to be different physiologically than training for a steady running race, so I don't much believe in following Lydiards guidelines for bike racing, but he does give good points about maximizing your aerobic engine.
I just finished reading Running with Lydiard. He has been in charge of the training schedules for many high profile athletes over the years that have had success internationally and have set world records.
It appears as though his schedulals do not include L4 intensitly at all. The core of his program consists of a very high volume of effort "just inside the athlete's maximum steady state". He never actually speaks of a paticular pace.
While this statement is a bit fague, it at first does imply L4 effort. But these "efforts" are between 1.5 and 2 hours. So, by definition, it is not L4, but perhaps, upper L3, no? So he must mean *whithin the athlete's maximum pace for that duration*. So, in essence, he avoids threshold efforts, it seems. But we all know that excercise near threshold is the most potent stimulus, right?
Boff. For what it's worth. I'd be curious to see training hr data, continuous testing protocol, and racing schedule.
