Arthritis at 27

"turnerdav" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Hi All

Yo! wazzup?

Quoted message said:

I'm 27 and have been bodybuilding seriously for ~10 years making good
solid progress. I've recently been hit with a string a joint problems
manifested as a dull ache in my knee, ankle and wrist joints (all on my
left side). Having got these checked out, I have been diagnosed with
mild chondromalacia patellae of the knee and mild arthritis of the
wrist (ankle still to go).

Now I'm sure that this is due to all the weight I have shifted over the
last 10 years.

Not necessarily.

Quoted message said:

The doctors have basically told me that there is nothing
they can do and that I should just stay as physically active as I can
until it becomes a 'real' problem.

Get new doctors.

Quoted message said:

Having been an avid follower of this group for many of the last 10
years, I was hoping that you guys could help me with the following
questions:

1) Am I alone in suffering from these problems at my age?

No.

Quoted message said:

Is this the
beginning of the end?

Birth is the beginning of the end.

Quoted message said:

2) Should I give up weight training?

No.

Quoted message said:

If so, which forms of exercise
are more appropriate?

Not so.

Quoted message said:

3) Are there any other forms of treatment that I should consider?

Yes.

David

In article <[email hidden]>,

turnerdav said:

Hi All

I'm 27 and have been bodybuilding seriously for ~10 years making good
solid progress. I've recently been hit with a string a joint problems
manifested as a dull ache in my knee, ankle and wrist joints (all on my
left side). Having got these checked out, I have been diagnosed with
mild chondromalacia patellae of the knee and mild arthritis of the
wrist (ankle still to go).

Now I'm sure that this is due to all the weight I have shifted over the
last 10 years. The doctors have basically told me that there is nothing
they can do and that I should just stay as physically active as I can
until it becomes a 'real' problem.

Having been an avid follower of this group for many of the last 10
years, I was hoping that you guys could help me with the following
questions:

1) Am I alone in suffering from these problems at my age? Is this the
beginning of the end?

2) Should I give up weight training? If so, which forms of exercise
are more appropriate?

3) Are there any other forms of treatment that I should consider?

Cheers

turnerdav

Take a _serious_ look at your nutrition?
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

turnerdav said:

Hi All

I'm 27 and have been bodybuilding seriously for ~10 years making good
solid progress. I've recently been hit with a string a joint problems
manifested as a dull ache in my knee, ankle and wrist joints (all on my
left side). Having got these checked out, I have been diagnosed with
mild chondromalacia patellae of the knee and mild arthritis of the
wrist (ankle still to go).

Now I'm sure that this is due to all the weight I have shifted over the
last 10 years. The doctors have basically told me that there is nothing
they can do and that I should just stay as physically active as I can
until it becomes a 'real' problem.

Having been an avid follower of this group for many of the last 10
years, I was hoping that you guys could help me with the following
questions:

1) Am I alone in suffering from these problems at my age? Is this the
beginning of the end?

2) Should I give up weight training? If so, which forms of exercise
are more appropriate?

3) Are there any other forms of treatment that I should consider?

I'd take a serious look at the exercises you are doing and how you are
performing them. I'd bet you do semi-squats, flat back bench presses, etc.
I think what you are going to have to learn to do is put joints through a
full natural ROM with moderate weights and eat a little humble pie in
terms of plates on the bar.

So I'd start with bodyweight exercises such as Hindu push-up, Hindu squat,
5 Tibetan rites and other exercises aimed more at joint health.

--
Keith

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Hobbes) said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

turnerdav said:

Hi All

I'm 27 and have been bodybuilding seriously for ~10 years making good
solid progress. I've recently been hit with a string a joint problems
manifested as a dull ache in my knee, ankle and wrist joints (all on my
left side). Having got these checked out, I have been diagnosed with
mild chondromalacia patellae of the knee and mild arthritis of the
wrist (ankle still to go).

Now I'm sure that this is due to all the weight I have shifted over the
last 10 years. The doctors have basically told me that there is nothing
they can do and that I should just stay as physically active as I can
until it becomes a 'real' problem.

Having been an avid follower of this group for many of the last 10
years, I was hoping that you guys could help me with the following
questions:

1) Am I alone in suffering from these problems at my age? Is this the
beginning of the end?

2) Should I give up weight training? If so, which forms of exercise
are more appropriate?

3) Are there any other forms of treatment that I should consider?

I'd take a serious look at the exercises you are doing and how you are
performing them. I'd bet you do semi-squats, flat back bench presses, etc.
I think what you are going to have to learn to do is put joints through a
full natural ROM with moderate weights and eat a little humble pie in
terms of plates on the bar.

So I'd start with bodyweight exercises such as Hindu push-up, Hindu squat,
5 Tibetan rites and other exercises aimed more at joint health.

Excellent advice...
Yoga would not be a bad idea either?
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Hobbes) said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

turnerdav said:

Hi All

I'm 27 and have been bodybuilding seriously for ~10 years making good
solid progress. I've recently been hit with a string a joint problems
manifested as a dull ache in my knee, ankle and wrist joints (all on my
left side). Having got these checked out, I have been diagnosed with
mild chondromalacia patellae of the knee and mild arthritis of the
wrist (ankle still to go).

Now I'm sure that this is due to all the weight I have shifted over the
last 10 years. The doctors have basically told me that there is nothing
they can do and that I should just stay as physically active as I can
until it becomes a 'real' problem.

Having been an avid follower of this group for many of the last 10
years, I was hoping that you guys could help me with the following
questions:

1) Am I alone in suffering from these problems at my age? Is this the
beginning of the end?

2) Should I give up weight training? If so, which forms of exercise
are more appropriate?

3) Are there any other forms of treatment that I should consider?

I'd take a serious look at the exercises you are doing and how you are
performing them. I'd bet you do semi-squats, flat back bench presses, etc.
I think what you are going to have to learn to do is put joints through a
full natural ROM with moderate weights and eat a little humble pie in
terms of plates on the bar.

So I'd start with bodyweight exercises such as Hindu push-up, Hindu squat,
5 Tibetan rites and other exercises aimed more at joint health.

Excellent advice...
Yoga would not be a bad idea either?

Yeah, but it would have to be a dynamic movement based Yoga. I prefer the
martial Buddhist regimes because they are far more dynamic. That is just a
personal preference tho. There are so many variations of yoga. There are
some very good instructors and there are a lot of hoaxes, IMO. If you find
a good one it's great. If you get a hoax you basically are told to spend a
lot of time sitting on your ass or lying on your back and feeling
peaceful.

Geo Takata has created a very interesting yoga based workout, but it is
pretty commercial.

--
Keith

turnerdav said:

Hi All

I'm 27 and have been bodybuilding seriously for ~10 years making good
solid progress. I've recently been hit with a string a joint problems
manifested as a dull ache in my knee, ankle and wrist joints (all on my
left side). Having got these checked out, I have been diagnosed with
mild chondromalacia patellae of the knee and mild arthritis of the
wrist (ankle still to go).

Now I'm sure that this is due to all the weight I have shifted over the
last 10 years. The doctors have basically told me that there is nothing
they can do and that I should just stay as physically active as I can
until it becomes a 'real' problem.

Having been an avid follower of this group for many of the last 10
years, I was hoping that you guys could help me with the following
questions:

1) Am I alone in suffering from these problems at my age? Is this the
beginning of the end?

2) Should I give up weight training? If so, which forms of exercise
are more appropriate?

3) Are there any other forms of treatment that I should consider?

Cheers

turnerdav

Have you been to see a rheumatologist?

--
spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Hobbes) said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Hobbes) said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"turnerdav" <[email hidden]> wrote:

> Hi All
>
> I'm 27 and have been bodybuilding seriously for ~10 years making good
> solid progress. I've recently been hit with a string a joint problems
> manifested as a dull ache in my knee, ankle and wrist joints (all on my
> left side). Having got these checked out, I have been diagnosed with
> mild chondromalacia patellae of the knee and mild arthritis of the
> wrist (ankle still to go).
>
> Now I'm sure that this is due to all the weight I have shifted over the
> last 10 years. The doctors have basically told me that there is nothing
> they can do and that I should just stay as physically active as I can
> until it becomes a 'real' problem.
>
> Having been an avid follower of this group for many of the last 10
> years, I was hoping that you guys could help me with the following
> questions:
>
> 1) Am I alone in suffering from these problems at my age? Is this the
> beginning of the end?
>
> 2) Should I give up weight training? If so, which forms of exercise
> are more appropriate?
>
> 3) Are there any other forms of treatment that I should consider?

I'd take a serious look at the exercises you are doing and how you are
performing them. I'd bet you do semi-squats, flat back bench presses, etc.
I think what you are going to have to learn to do is put joints through a
full natural ROM with moderate weights and eat a little humble pie in
terms of plates on the bar.

So I'd start with bodyweight exercises such as Hindu push-up, Hindu squat,
5 Tibetan rites and other exercises aimed more at joint health.

Excellent advice...
Yoga would not be a bad idea either?

Yeah, but it would have to be a dynamic movement based Yoga. I prefer the
martial Buddhist regimes because they are far more dynamic. That is just a
personal preference tho. There are so many variations of yoga. There are
some very good instructors and there are a lot of hoaxes, IMO. If you find
a good one it's great. If you get a hoax you basically are told to spend a
lot of time sitting on your ass or lying on your back and feeling
peaceful.

Geo Takata has created a very interesting yoga based workout, but it is
pretty commercial.

How do you feel about Tai Chi?
I bought a video once on it (led by David Carradine, it was pretty
hokey) but it looks very interesting. Never got serious about it and
wondered if I should?
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

spodosaurus said:

Have you been to see a rheumatologist?

Or a doctor of internal medicine who usually is also into rheumatology
(which is one type of arthritis). This type of doctor wont tell him to
just 'live with till it gets worse' and will suggest proper treatments
for here and now. Some types of arthritis show up in lab blood tests. I
would also consult with a sports therapist to guide you with your
future exercise plans. Somethings you are doing (bad form was
mentioned) may be making your joint problems worse without you
realizing it. Also read up on nutrition, supplements
(glucosamine/chondroitin), and look at this as a heads up to learn all
you can about keeping your body fit from the inside out and not just
the other way around.

"There are more than 100 different types of arthritis (some conditions
may be grouped under a single name in the listing below) and the cause
of most types is unknown. Scientists are currently studying what roles
three major factors play in certain types of arthritis. These include
the genetic factors you inherit from your parents, what happens to you
during your life and how you live. The importance of these factors
varies for every type of arthritis."
http://www.arthritis.org/conditions/DiseaseCenter/default.asp
(there is alot of otehr info on this site)

A bit about chondromalacia patellae, what may have caused it, the
muscle structures and how they are balanced (other than a direct
injury, you may have been overtraining or undertraining the supporting
muscles) and also about treatment, and prevention that may give you
some needed info:
http://www.medfriendly.com/chondromalaciapatellae.html

joanne

On 2005-05-30, turnerdav penned:

Quoted message said:

Hi All

I'm 27 and have been bodybuilding seriously for ~10 years making
good solid progress. I've recently been hit with a string a joint
problems manifested as a dull ache in my knee, ankle and wrist
joints (all on my left side). Having got these checked out, I have
been diagnosed with mild chondromalacia patellae of the knee and
mild arthritis of the wrist (ankle still to go).

Now I'm sure that this is due to all the weight I have shifted over
the last 10 years. The doctors have basically told me that there is
nothing they can do and that I should just stay as physically active
as I can until it becomes a 'real' problem.

Having been an avid follower of this group for many of the last 10
years, I was hoping that you guys could help me with the following
questions:

I'm a newbie to the group, but I'm young and have had arthritis for a
while, so I thought I'd chime in ...

Quoted message said:

1) Am I alone in suffering from these problems at my age? Is this
the beginning of the end?

No, and I hope not. I have had arthritis in my knees since I was about
20 (now 27). I believe it's due to an injury (my foot got stuck on a
wooden floor when turning to do a back kick, so my knee gave way
instead). I've also been diagnosed with mild chrondowhatsit. On the
plus side, I can always tell when the weather's about to change or when
it's going to rain tomorrow ...

Quoted message said:

2) Should I give up weight training? If so, which forms of
exercise are more appropriate?

I hesitate to touch this, but I doubt you should give up weight
training. If nothing else, weight-bearing exercise is key to
maintaining healthy bones.

In fact (although this is not advice, just a statement), I've been
told that while my arthritis is painful, I can't make it worse by
continuing to use my joints. My doctor and I were talking about
bicycles, hiking, etc, though, not lifting weights.

Quoted message said:

3) Are there any other forms of treatment that I should consider?

What sort of doctors have you seen? Did you go to a GP or to an
orthopedic surgeon? I have several knee problems, so I can't recall
exactly what was prescribed for which.

My one bit of advice is to find a NSAID that works for you. Both
Ibuprofin and Aleve do wonders for me.

--
monique

What should I be looking for when I take "a _serious_ look at" my
"nutrition"??

As with most bodybuilders, I have paid close attention to nutitrion
both in terms of quantity and quality. Is there something that you
think might be missing?

David

Maybe a silly question, but what is a Hindu push-up / squat?

David

thanks for the info Joanne.

I'm fairly convinced that many years of heavy deadlifts probably cause
the knee damage. From the website, it sounds like exercise should help
to sort out the muscle imbalances.

I'll certainly check out the supplement side of things. As well as
glucosamine/chondroitin, is MSM of any use in this situation?

I've been to see a GP and an orthopedic surgeon. Neither of which
really have any knowledge of weight training (although the OS does have
some sports knowledge). They seem to agree that general exercise is
good (e.g. swimming), but the jury seems to be out on whether further
weight training is good or bad.

Hmm... I tried Tai Chi a couple of years back - wasn't convinced.
Admittedly I wasn't in the same (poor) state that I am now.

Tai Chi seems to demand some basic form of physical coordination. Not
something I was blessed with. I can just about handle moving a couple
of dumbells in sync !

In article <[email hidden]>,

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Hobbes) said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] (Hobbes) wrote:

> In article <[email hidden]>,
> "turnerdav" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> > Hi All
> >
> > I'm 27 and have been bodybuilding seriously for ~10 years making good
> > solid progress. I've recently been hit with a string a joint problems
> > manifested as a dull ache in my knee, ankle and wrist joints

(all on my

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > left side). Having got these checked out, I have been diagnosed with
> > mild chondromalacia patellae of the knee and mild arthritis of the
> > wrist (ankle still to go).
> >
> > Now I'm sure that this is due to all the weight I have shifted

over the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > last 10 years. The doctors have basically told me that there is

nothing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > they can do and that I should just stay as physically active as I can
> > until it becomes a 'real' problem.
> >
> > Having been an avid follower of this group for many of the last 10
> > years, I was hoping that you guys could help me with the following
> > questions:
> >
> > 1) Am I alone in suffering from these problems at my age? Is

this the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > beginning of the end?
> >
> > 2) Should I give up weight training? If so, which forms of exercise
> > are more appropriate?
> >
> > 3) Are there any other forms of treatment that I should consider?
>
> I'd take a serious look at the exercises you are doing and how you are
> performing them. I'd bet you do semi-squats, flat back bench

presses, etc.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I think what you are going to have to learn to do is put joints

through a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> full natural ROM with moderate weights and eat a little humble pie in
> terms of plates on the bar.
>
> So I'd start with bodyweight exercises such as Hindu push-up,

Hindu squat,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> 5 Tibetan rites and other exercises aimed more at joint health.

Excellent advice...
Yoga would not be a bad idea either?

Yeah, but it would have to be a dynamic movement based Yoga. I prefer the
martial Buddhist regimes because they are far more dynamic. That is just a
personal preference tho. There are so many variations of yoga. There are
some very good instructors and there are a lot of hoaxes, IMO. If you find
a good one it's great. If you get a hoax you basically are told to spend a
lot of time sitting on your ass or lying on your back and feeling
peaceful.

Geo Takata has created a very interesting yoga based workout, but it is
pretty commercial.

How do you feel about Tai Chi?
I bought a video once on it (led by David Carradine, it was pretty
hokey) but it looks very interesting. Never got serious about it and
wondered if I should?

Excellent stuff if it suits your personality.

--
Keith

In article <[email hidden]>,

turnerdav said:

Maybe a silly question, but what is a Hindu push-up / squat?

David

http://www.cbass.com/Furey.htm

--
Keith

On 2005-05-31, turnerdav penned:

Quoted message said:

I've been to see a GP and an orthopedic surgeon. Neither of which
really have any knowledge of weight training (although the OS does
have some sports knowledge). They seem to agree that general
exercise is good (e.g. swimming), but the jury seems to be out on
whether further weight training is good or bad.

Maybe you can ask around in the gym to find an ortho doctor who knows
weight training. I'm sure such a doctor must exist somewhere in your
area, and it really does help to have doctors who are interested in
your activities and understand your desire to continue them.

--
monique

joanne said:

spodosaurus said:

Have you been to see a rheumatologist?

Or a doctor of internal medicine who usually is also into rheumatology
(which is one type of arthritis).

No, rheumatology is a clinical specialty dealing with arthritis, not a
type of arthritis.

Quoted message said:

This type of doctor wont tell him to
just 'live with till it gets worse' and will suggest proper treatments
for here and now. Some types of arthritis show up in lab blood tests.

But these types also cannot be ruled out by lab tests, as a significant
percentage of people are sero-negative but have the disease.

Quoted message said:

I
would also consult with a sports therapist to guide you with your
future exercise plans. Somethings you are doing (bad form was
mentioned) may be making your joint problems worse without you
realizing it. Also read up on nutrition, supplements
(glucosamine/chondroitin), and look at this as a heads up to learn all
you can about keeping your body fit from the inside out and not just
the other way around.

Yep, with arthritis it's about long term management not cure.

Quoted message said:

"There are more than 100 different types of arthritis (some conditions
may be grouped under a single name in the listing below) and the cause
of most types is unknown. Scientists are currently studying what roles
three major factors play in certain types of arthritis. These include
the genetic factors you inherit from your parents, what happens to you
during your life and how you live. The importance of these factors
varies for every type of arthritis."
http://www.arthritis.org/conditions/DiseaseCenter/default.asp
(there is alot of otehr info on this site)

A bit about chondromalacia patellae, what may have caused it, the
muscle structures and how they are balanced (other than a direct
injury, you may have been overtraining or undertraining the supporting
muscles) and also about treatment, and prevention that may give you
some needed info:
http://www.medfriendly.com/chondromalaciapatellae.html

joanne

--
spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

turnerdav said:

I've been to see a GP and an orthopedic surgeon. Neither of which
really have any knowledge of weight training (although the OS does have
some sports knowledge). They seem to agree that general exercise is
good (e.g. swimming), but the jury seems to be out on whether further
weight training is good or bad.

It's good (maintains muscular support for the joints, squishes the
synovial fluid around, prevents disuse bone density loss), but probably
nothing that would be considered competitive. I got lucky in that my
rheumatologist is also a sports medicine specialist working with
professional athletes. Orthopaedic surgeons are probably best avoided:
they usually have a surgical solution, which is better being left as the
last resort than the first treatment.

Ari

--
spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/