Arrested for no helmet

Yeah cops can have these uncontrollable urges to show you who's boss, they
hate it when you assert your right e.g. to not carry/produce ID.

Just fill out a complaint if it happens again, they might have a vendetta
against you after that but at least you'll have caused them no end of
paperwork 😉

//Adam F

"Wally" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Today while I was riding without a helmet, I got pulled stopped by a
pair of traffic police.
The cop asks for ID and I tell him I don't have any. I get asked to
empty my pockets. I refused and got arrested.

After ten minutes of arguing the police decide to ask for my name and
address (which I gave them), they checked on the radio, wrote a ticket
for fifty dollars and let me go.

I am not a lawyer but I was under the impression that I don't have to
carry ID in anywhere in Australia unless I am driving a motor vehicle
or trying to leave the country.

Does anyone know if the laws have changed this much or if I should
start promoting civil disobedience?

This is the second ticket I've gotten since the law was enacted in
Western Australia so I am not very happy about this and it has done
nothing to make me want to wear a helmet. I am not trying to ignite a
helmet debate but I am less than happy at police having such powers.

Welcome to the police state.

"Wally" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Today while I was riding without a helmet, I got pulled stopped by a
pair of traffic police.
The cop asks for ID and I tell him I don't have any. I get asked to
empty my pockets. I refused and got arrested.

After ten minutes of arguing the police decide to ask for my name and
address (which I gave them), they checked on the radio, wrote a ticket
for fifty dollars and let me go.

I am not a lawyer but I was under the impression that I don't have to
carry ID in anywhere in Australia unless I am driving a motor vehicle
or trying to leave the country.

Does anyone know if the laws have changed this much or if I should
start promoting civil disobedience?

This is the second ticket I've gotten since the law was enacted in
Western Australia so I am not very happy about this and it has done
nothing to make me want to wear a helmet. I am not trying to ignite a
helmet debate but I am less than happy at police having such powers.

Welcome to the police state.

So what you're saying is that you knowingly broke the law and then got upset
when the police (whose job it is to enforce the law) enforced it.

Troll.

On 2006-03-14, Wally (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

Today while I was riding without a helmet, I got pulled stopped by a
pair of traffic police.
The cop asks for ID and I tell him I don't have any. I get asked to
empty my pockets. I refused and got arrested.

After ten minutes of arguing the police decide to ask for my name and
address (which I gave them), they checked on the radio, wrote a ticket
for fifty dollars and let me go.

I am not a lawyer but I was under the impression that I don't have to
carry ID in anywhere in Australia unless I am driving a motor vehicle
or trying to leave the country.

Are your papers all in order?

--
TimC
A new verb was accidently created during a discussion about KDE 3 and Debian.
It was said that KDE 3 will sid soon. -- Debian Weekly News Jan 14,2003

Wally said:

Today while I was riding without a helmet, I got pulled stopped by a
pair of traffic police.
The cop asks for ID and I tell him I don't have any. I get asked to
empty my pockets. I refused and got arrested.

You should have asked what for. that would have put the cat amongst the
pidgeons. Write start a letter writing campaign to the local officer in
charge, then regional commander, then commissioner of police until you
find out why you were arrested.

Quoted message said:

After ten minutes of arguing the police decide to ask for my name and
address (which I gave them), they checked on the radio, wrote a ticket
for fifty dollars and let me go.

What did they check on the radio?

Quoted message said:

I am not a lawyer but I was under the impression that I don't have to
carry ID in anywhere in Australia unless I am driving a motor vehicle
or trying to leave the country.

In the past you didn't and as far as I know you still don't.

Quoted message said:

Does anyone know if the laws have changed this much or if I should
start promoting civil disobedience?

Yes

Wally said:

I am not a lawyer but I was under the impression that I don't have to
carry ID in anywhere in Australia unless I am driving a motor vehicle
or trying to leave the country.

If not wearing a helmet is classified as a traffic offence, then you
probably are required to identify yourself, and can be arrested for
not doing so. Check your state's laws.

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

Wally said:

Today while I was riding without a helmet, I got pulled stopped by a
pair of traffic police.
The cop asks for ID and I tell him I don't have any. I get asked to
empty my pockets. I refused and got arrested.

If you're just walking down the street minding your own business, you
have no need to carry any ID. If you're breaking the law, the police
have the power to detain you until such time as they can be sure they
know who you are. Otherwise, you could say your name was Bronwyn Biship
and they'd have no way to prove otherwise.

You were breaking the law. Stop whining.

..

Resound said:

Wally said:

Today while I was riding without a helmet, I got pulled stopped by a
pair of traffic police.
The cop asks for ID and I tell him I don't have any. I get asked to
empty my pockets. I refused and got arrested.

After ten minutes of arguing the police decide to ask for my name and
address (which I gave them), they checked on the radio, wrote a ticket
for fifty dollars and let me go.

I am not a lawyer but I was under the impression that I don't have to
carry ID in anywhere in Australia unless I am driving a motor vehicle
or trying to leave the country.

Does anyone know if the laws have changed this much or if I should
start promoting civil disobedience?

This is the second ticket I've gotten since the law was enacted in
Western Australia so I am not very happy about this and it has done
nothing to make me want to wear a helmet. I am not trying to ignite a
helmet debate but I am less than happy at police having such powers.

Welcome to the police state.

So what you're saying is that you knowingly broke the law and then got
upset when the police (whose job it is to enforce the law) enforced it.

This is only one part of the incident, and not Wally's main complaint.

Yes, he is knowingly breaking a law (or rather traffic regulation) but the
issue is that of carrying and presenting ID. The police can stop him,
question, issue a Bicycle Infringement Notice and give it to him, but they
cannot require him to present ID, unless he is driving a motor vehicle. They
legally would have to take his details as he gives them verbally, or arrest
him, but I don't think a helmet offence is arrestable!

How would you take it if you went for a ride around the block, with no
wallet or ID, then the police pulled you up for some minor offence, say
entering a street without stopping completely at a stop sign (we've all done
that one) and arrest you for not having ID? The Australia Card was knocked
on the head over a decade ago IIRC.

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

A couple of us were summonsed & appeared in court for not having reflectors
on our racing bikes at 10am but that was over a decade ago now . So believe
me anything is possible & there are cyclist-haters in all walks of life.
Steve
Ideal

In aus.bicycle on Wed, 15 Mar 2006 00:41:31 +1100

Peter Signorini said:

Yes, he is knowingly breaking a law (or rather traffic regulation) but the
issue is that of carrying and presenting ID. The police can stop him,
question, issue a Bicycle Infringement Notice and give it to him, but they
cannot require him to present ID, unless he is driving a motor vehicle. They

That may be state dependent too.

For example, in South Oz while I was living there you did not have to
produce your driver's licence if driving a vehicle and the police
stopped you and asked for it (not ID, licence...) but could produce it
at a police station 24 hours later. UNless you were driving on an
interstate or international licence, then you had to stump up on the
spot.

You are not required to carry ID in Australia. You may be required
to carry a driver's licence if you are driving a vehicle you need to
be licenced for.

Zebee

In aus.bicycle on 14 Mar 2006 20:10:12 GMT

Zebee Johnstone said:

In aus.bicycle on Wed, 15 Mar 2006 00:41:31 +1100

Peter Signorini said:

Yes, he is knowingly breaking a law (or rather traffic regulation) but the
issue is that of carrying and presenting ID. The police can stop him,
question, issue a Bicycle Infringement Notice and give it to him, but they
cannot require him to present ID, unless he is driving a motor vehicle. They

That may be state dependent too.

And it is in WA. From
http://www.legalaid.wa.gov.au/infoaboutlaw/aspx/default.aspx?page=police\answering.xml

Situations Where you do have to Answer Police Questions include:

Name and Address
You must provide your name and address to the police when you are
requested to do so. If you refuse to give your name and/or address or
give false details in these circumstances, you are committing an offence.

Road Traffic Matters
If the police pull you over when you are driving, you must: stop the
vehicle, give your name and address and the name and address of the
owner of the vehicle; show your driver's licence or, if you don't have
it on you, take it to a police station within 48 hours;

http://www.legalaid.wa.gov.au/infoaboutlaw/aspx/default.aspx?page=police\police.xml

says nothing about having to provide ID if arrested.

Zebee

On 14 Mar 2006 05:01:10 -0800, "Wally" <[email hidden]> wrote in
aus.bicycle:

Quoted message said:

After ten minutes of arguing the police decide to ask for my name and
address (which I gave them), they checked on the radio, wrote a ticket
for fifty dollars and let me go.

Quoted message said:

This is the second ticket I've gotten since the law was enacted in
Western Australia so I am not very happy about this and it has done
nothing to make me want to wear a helmet. I am not trying to ignite a
helmet debate but I am less than happy at police having such powers.

Paying two $50 fines for not wearing a $25 helmet would be enough to
make me wear one.

Regards
Prickles

Timendi causa est nescire
This message only uses recycled electrons

quote='Peter Signorini''Resound said:

So what you're saying is that you knowingly broke the law and then got
upset when the police (whose job it is to enforce the law) enforced it.

This is only one part of the incident, and not Wally's main complaint.

Yes, he is knowingly breaking a law (or rather traffic regulation) but the
issue is that of carrying and presenting ID. The police can stop him,
question, issue a Bicycle Infringement Notice and give it to him, but they
cannot require him to present ID, unless he is driving a motor vehicle. They
legally would have to take his details as he gives them verbally, or arrest
him, but I don't think a helmet offence is arrestable!

How would you take it if you went for a ride around the block, with no
wallet or ID, then the police pulled you up for some minor offence, say
entering a street without stopping completely at a stop sign (we've all done
that one) and arrest you for not having ID? The Australia Card was knocked
on the head over a decade ago IIRC.
[/QUOTE]
I agree with Resound. Why do ppl make it harder than it should be? If you [censored] up & get pinched then take it on the chin. Police are there to do a job just like most of us. I know I get [censored] at work if someone gives me the run around.
I'm sure if you explain to them in a civil manner that you are just around the block, they'd be cool with that. [censored], they might even let you off! Shock horror!
Now if only they could start patrolling St. Kilda rd during peak hour & start pinching all those gumby commuters that 'run the reds' I'd be a lot happier. Bring on the rain to wash them all away😠

JayWoo said:

I agree with Resound. Why do ppl make it harder than it should be? If you [censored] up & get pinched then take it on the chin. Police are there to do a job just like most of us. I know I get [censored] at work if someone gives me the run around.
I'm sure if you explain to them in a civil manner that you are just around the block, they'd be cool with that. [censored], they might even let you off! Shock horror!
Now if only they could start patrolling St. Kilda rd during peak hour & start pinching all those gumby commuters that 'run the reds' I'd be a lot happier. Bring on the rain to wash them all away😠

I got asked once by some police if there was any good reason for not wearing my helmet :o I had showered after a swim at the pool on campus and was toodling across the road to my office. The police were on campus for something else and stopped me. Once I explained that I had just washed my hair they understood, but suggested that traces of hair conditioner probably weren't very protective 😄

It probably served me right when not long after I was dodging a pram being rammed at my front wheel in a narrow part of the path through Uni and managed to smack the side of my head against a concrete wall... they were right on about the conditioner. 🙂

cheers,
Ali

Wally said:

I am not trying to ignite a
helmet debate but I am less than happy at police having such powers.

I'll just keep my mouth shut then! As for the police asking questions
and looking for ID... Is it possible they extrapolated from the fact
that you were breaking the law that you were a general bad guy and they
thought they'd hassle you till you spilled the beans on all your other
misdemeanors (e.g. not stopping on red or crossing intersections without
getting off your bike, etc.)??

--
Bean "a good law abiding cyclist"

Remove "yourfinger" before replying

Bleve said:

If you're just walking down the street minding your own business, you
have no need to carry any ID. If you're breaking the law, the police
have the power to detain you until such time as they can be sure they
know who you are. Otherwise, you could say your name was Bronwyn Biship
and they'd have no way to prove otherwise.

You were breaking the law. Stop whining.

..

what he said.

ASFAIK they recently made it a 'detainable' matter if on Melb PT and you didnt have ticket AND refused to give ID, or didnt have it until such time as they can verify who you are

Zebee Johnstone said:

And it is in WA. From
http://www.legalaid.wa.gov.au/infoaboutlaw/aspx/default.aspx?page=police\answering.xml

Situations Where you do have to Answer Police Questions include:

Name and Address
You must provide your name and address to the police when you are
requested to do so. If you refuse to give your name and/or address or
give false details in these circumstances, you are committing an offence.

No qualms about answering questions or giving my name and address. The
contentious point that Wally raised was about being arrested if he _could
not provide ID_ to prove who he says he is. Again I'll sya it - the
Australia Card was killed off over a decade ago, didn't know having a
licence is now the substitute. Whta if I can't provide any ID?

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

flyingdutch said:

what he said.

ASFAIK they recently made it a 'detainable' matter if on Melb PT and you didnt have ticket AND refused to give ID, or didnt have it until such time as they can verify who you are

The ticket inspectors in vic have the power to detain you until police arrive if they believe you have given them a false name and address. I was done for not carrying a concession card (no wallet because I was going for a ride, so no ID at all) but I gave the TI my name and address which was good enough for him.

Peter Signorini said:

Quoted message said:

"Wally" wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I am not a lawyer but I was under the impression that I don't have
to carry ID in anywhere in Australia unless I am driving a motor
vehicle or trying to leave the country.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This is the second ticket I've gotten since the law was enacted in
Western Australia

Quoted message said:

Yes, he is knowingly breaking a law (or rather traffic regulation)
but the issue is that of carrying and presenting ID. The police can
stop him, question, issue a Bicycle Infringement Notice and give it
to him, but they cannot require him to present ID, unless he is
driving a motor vehicle.

Actually, in WA, Wally is not required to carry an ID even if driving a
motor vehicle. WA law allows you to show your ID within 48 hours at a Police
station of your choosing. Even if Wally was carrying an ID, he is not
required to produce it. I've been in that situation. Policeman "do you have
your driver's licence with you sir?", me "yes", Policeman "May I see it
please sir?", me "no". Stunned look on policeman's face. He decided that, as
his task that day was to stop and check Motorcyclists licences, there was no
real need to check my licence as "you look like you've got a licence
anyway".

Theo

Theo Bekkers said:

Actually, in WA, Wally is not required to carry an ID even if driving a
motor vehicle. WA law allows you to show your ID within 48 hours at a Police
station of your choosing. Even if Wally was carrying an ID, he is not
required to produce it. I've been in that situation. Policeman "do you have
your driver's licence with you sir?", me "yes", Policeman "May I see it
please sir?", me "no". Stunned look on policeman's face. He decided that, as
his task that day was to stop and check Motorcyclists licences, there was no
real need to check my licence as "you look like you've got a licence
anyway".

Theo

wow. aus.bike has a resident 'webel'. 🙄

next you'll be telliung us you let your hair go scruffy (assuming you HAVE hair! 😄), or you listen to loud music :eek: